petercaths

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the tragedy of buffy to me in early seasons is that she’s convinced she’s not a normal girl dealing with normal girl things even though everything that happens to her is an extremely cogent metaphor for normal girl things, such as when you’re filled with thoughts of violence, or when your boyfriend starts acting like a different person after you have sex with him, or your mom grounds you for being irresponsible even though you ARE responsible it’s just that nobody understands what you’re going through, or when the entire world conspires to convince you that your sexual desires are inherently evil and you will be punished for having them. many of these things are normal girl experiences under the patriarchy but buffy doesn’t know that bc she’s in the literalization torture labyrinth

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Jack Shephard Variants:

Note: me and some friends came up with this, I can only explain 5 or 6 in detail.

1. Buffy Summers

2. Clarke Griffin

3. Nat Scatorccio

4. Anakin Skywalker

5. Alicent Hightower

6. Rick Grimes

7. Shauna Shipman

8. Sara Tancredi

9. Derek Shepherd

10. Hughie Biggs

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Who wants to listen to me rant about why Jack Shephard and Anakin Skywalker are tethered.

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noooooo like she needs someone to TAKE CARE of her she needs someone to be there for her and help nurture her confidence and help her grow and learn as a doctor and a person and someone to take her virginity as well

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me having a weird time: man this weird time sucks! i don't feel like myself! i wish i was having a normal time!

me having a normal time: well the weird time did have a certain je ne sais quoi...

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Link to the Lost Summer a challenge on AO3 if you’re interested in leaving prompts or answering any.

Omg yesss I’m interested but the link doesn’t appear 😭

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Jateus interruptus is just about one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard in my life. I’m making it my header bc i have soooooooo much to say about that.

If you have any other random lore about Jate while the show was airing please share!!! I love knowing things ☺️

Any scenes or dialogue, that aren’t even necessarily out of character, that you just straight up dislike between Jack and Kate?

Wait this is interesting okay.

This is so minor but in the s2 finale when they’re following Michael and Kate notices two guys following them, and she turns to Sawyer to tell him and is like “im gonna turn around and shoot them, are you in?”

That scene always bothers the shit out of me because as she’s talking to Sawyer, Jack passes by them, so it makes no freaking sense that Jack doesn’t hear what she’s saying.

There’s also a scene in s6 where they’re talking about Locke and Kate says “he’s changed” and Jack responds “we’ve all changed”, that’s just sucky and lazy dialogue. A lot of the dialogue in s6 is just fucking terrible, and I just hate that moment because they never let them have a damn conversation!!!

Also, after Jack takes the Jacob job, it always bothers me that the scene where it looks like Kate will finally confront him , is interrupted by Hurley. Like LET THESE TWO HAVE IT OUT PLEASE.

In general, im not a fan of how they were written in season 6. Like, they’ve always been a dynamic that communicates through actions rather than words, and Lost has always been a tv show that thrives better with visual storytelling than dialogue. But s6 is the wrap up season, and so the lack of dialogue becomes frustrating because nothing is ever resolved between these two. It worked in s5 bc that’s their divorce season, and their conversation in the s5 finale is a good one, but it’s not a resolution, it’s merely a stepping stone. It seemed like in s6, the writers expect the audience to hang onto the “big” moments, like the afterlife reunion which definitely packs an emotional punch. But Jack and Kate deserved to have an actual conversation , and actual closure, and a moment where they could just actually air out their business.

And you could also say this about a bunch of other dynamics that were left half-assed. The writers really fumble up the dynamics in s6 in favor of prioritizing the plot.

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Jate off-island Timeline:

Let me break this shit down by how I perceive it:

1. They get back first week of January.

2. Hurley’s birthday is held in June, and Christian’s funeral isn’t until July.

3. It is HEAVILY implied that Jack and Kate dated from the time they got off the island, to the time Jack found out about Aaron (at his father’s funeral). However serious that relationship was isn’t affirmed, but it was serious enough for Jack to be a fixture of her life with Aaron, and Kate’s ultimatum pick up their relationship again.

4. They get back together sometime after the trial.

5. When this trial takes place? We don’t know, If we go by what Aaron looks like then maybe mid to late 2006?

6. But I don’t take Aaron’s age into account here, it makes much more sense for Kate’s trial to be within the 2005 year cycle because the Oceanic 6 are still a big deal during her trial.

And that’s what I think ✌️

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Any scenes or dialogue, that aren’t even necessarily out of character, that you just straight up dislike between Jack and Kate?

Wait this is interesting okay.

This is so minor but in the s2 finale when they’re following Michael and Kate notices two guys following them, and she turns to Sawyer to tell him and is like “im gonna turn around and shoot them, are you in?”

That scene always bothers the shit out of me because as she’s talking to Sawyer, Jack passes by them, so it makes no freaking sense that Jack doesn’t hear what she’s saying.

There’s also a scene in s6 where they’re talking about Locke and Kate says “he’s changed” and Jack responds “we’ve all changed”, that’s just sucky and lazy dialogue. A lot of the dialogue in s6 is just fucking terrible, and I just hate that moment because they never let them have a damn conversation!!!

Also, after Jack takes the Jacob job, it always bothers me that the scene where it looks like Kate will finally confront him , is interrupted by Hurley. Like LET THESE TWO HAVE IT OUT PLEASE.

In general, im not a fan of how they were written in season 6. Like, they’ve always been a dynamic that communicates through actions rather than words, and Lost has always been a tv show that thrives better with visual storytelling than dialogue. But s6 is the wrap up season, and so the lack of dialogue becomes frustrating because nothing is ever resolved between these two. It worked in s5 bc that’s their divorce season, and their conversation in the s5 finale is a good one, but it’s not a resolution, it’s merely a stepping stone. It seemed like in s6, the writers expect the audience to hang onto the “big” moments, like the afterlife reunion which definitely packs an emotional punch. But Jack and Kate deserved to have an actual conversation , and actual closure, and a moment where they could just actually air out their business.

And you could also say this about a bunch of other dynamics that were left half-assed. The writers really fumble up the dynamics in s6 in favor of prioritizing the plot.

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I love s1 Jack Shephard so much. The first 19 episodes it’s like “here’s generic white guy savior who is a little bit of an asshole, but at least he’s helpful!”

And then you get to episode 20 like *LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER* this is actually ethical Victor Frankenstein.

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I love how when Jack gets his memories back in the finale, the first half of his flashbacks are a compilation of every Lost character, and then the second half is like

“kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate kate”

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This scene is so sickening to me. Jack Shephard you really do master the art of yearning.

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let's play pretend and think we were writers working on LOST and were crafting a well-made, still cishet bc god forbid queer people exist in this show, love triangle where Jack is the apex as usual. in other words, let's think in terms of "let's come up with other ways in which the story could've still worked the way it did but the roles of the characters changed in it".

If we wanna keep it 2 men and 1 woman I'd say that the character who would make more sense is Sayid instead of Sawyer. Like, in my mind, if LOST was a show that was really interested in Sayid as a character, I see him as the best "love antagonist" to Jack rather than Sawyer. Like, Sawyer and Kate doesn't really do much to Jack apart from a normal jealousy, but I think Sayid and Kate would sting a lot more.

But if we wanna go the 2 women and 1 men route I really don't see another woman Jack is so interested in other than Kate. Like, both Ana Lucia e Juliet are super extra fucking cool but Jack's got zero romantic chemistry with them. Not to mention they're only introduced in s2 and s3 respectively. I personally think Sun would be a good fit but her story is too much connected to Jin to have room for a love triangle (and, as a matter of fact, when they tried it with Michael it kinda failed).

Like, out of all the initial main characters in the show, while Kate's got a pool of possibilities for compatible partners, it's really difficult to me to see Jack emotionally invested in another woman other than Kate.

What are your thoughts? Who would you have picked for the love triangle as a writer?

Okay, because I have thought about this a little.

I def agree with a love triangle that has Sayid making more sense, and I think if that were the case, then the love triangle would play out more like I see people wanting to say it does with Jate/Skate; I.e, there would be begrudging respect between the two outside of whatever weirdness they have about Kate, because these are two character who need each other.

Like, imagine how s3 hydra island would play out; Sayid wouldn’t be okay with leaving Jack behind, and it would be for reasons entirely unrelated to Kate. And if the writers weren’t racist, I imagine Sayid would come out on top in this love triangle, at least in the more conventionally romantic way. I also imagine Jack’s characterization would be a little easier because putting Sayid and Kate together would kind of free the writers from having to consider Jate as something that has happens (aka more room to torture Jack).

I also think that with a Sayid/Kate relationship, Jack would be a harsher character? Like, a lot more of the “Kate dammit run” and a lot less of the “Because I love you” and the difference between Jack and Sayid would lie in Jack’s inability to BE a safe space. Jack can be very removed from his basic humanity sometimes, like yes he’s caught up in wanting to help everyone, but he does it in a very removed way. He isn’t looking out for a mental well-being, he’s looking out for a physical one. Something that can be measured.

Sayid isn’t like that, Sayid has a very emotional core, his arc is tied to his compassion, Kate could actually find a kindred spirit with Sayid in a way that’s not always well written with Sawyer. s1-2 would be heavily dedicated to Jate, I imagine s3 is where the Kate/Sayid arc would begin because Jack would retreat into himself post-hydra, and Kate would seek out emotional comfort with Sayid, who is kinda the only other person who understands what it’s like to have Jack cut you off from the “inner circle” because there is this unspoken dynamic between Jack and Sayid where they run things by each other.

I actually don’t think anything would happen between Sayid and Kate until they’re off-island . And I do mean well off-island, like post Kate’s trial because there’s still Shannon and Nadia to consider. I would actually write it so that Sayid’s arc is reverse of canon, meaning that that first year is the worst year of Sayid’s life: Nadia dies, he finds out Ben is alive, and starts working for him. All the while Jack and Kate are going through their fuckery, and Kate is going to trial. I’d change up the trial a little, maybe have all the oceanic 6 testify at Kate’s trial, and that’s how Kate and Sayid reconnect. Sayid manages to get out from under Ben, but he’s also the only person who knows Ben is out of the island and he keeps that secret more so out of shame than anything else.

Then I imagine Jack still has his spiral, I mean Jack and Kate’s arc is basically this same they just aren’t together. Like, Jack is still reluctant to be a part of Aaron’s life, but slowly gives in because that’s his nephew after all. And they become a weird blended family, like they’re essentially co-parents. Kate is still Jack’s closest connection, so when they fight, he suffers the same aftermath. And, obviously the tone of the fight would change. The way I would write it, Jack figures out Kate is hiding something and eventually finds out about Cassidy, and that Kate told Cassidy almost everything about the island, and that sets him off. And then there’s Jack’s addiction which is an issue that Kate throws back at him, and that’s basically their fallout.

Airport scene stays the same, because at the end of the day chemistry is chemistry, you can’t fight it. That scene is always gonna look like these two sad desperate people wanna fuck.

And I am taking chemistry into account here, as in Jack and Kate have a lot of it, Sayid and Kate…don’t. So, it would make the love triangle feel uneven under any circumstance, and because of that Sayid and Kate would have to be approached from a “calm after the storm-friends first” perspective. Otherwise it doesn’t work, it can’t compete. For as sucky as Skate’s writing was, on-island Skate worked because they had a very visceral chemistry that could go toe-to-toe with Jack and Kate’s intensity.

I think after the airport scene, Sayid would be the first person Jack tries to get to come back, and then Sayid would figure out Ben got to Jack, and kinda try to protect Jack which then spirals out of his control. Sayid and Kate fallout would be Sayid not telling Kate Ben is alive, and I’d also turn the “Ben trying to take Aaron” into a much bigger issue.

I mean I’m sure there’s flaws in this, but that’s the general direction I would go.

Now, for a two girls-one guy triangle. I actually have thought about this a lot because Ana Lucia is Jack’s lesbian best friend, and I just hate everything about Jack/Juliet.

I don’t like that pairing. I don’t think it makes any logical sense. Like, it’s actually wild to me that they got married in the first place. David had to be an accident , and I’m sure Jack’s first major fumble as a parent was suggesting abortion to Juliet in a very crass way. I just don’t think Juliet is someone Jack could ever be with, and I think he knows that too. Even if Kate didn’t exist, like Juliet still wouldn’t be an option because, not to be anti-feminist, but Jack’s ex-wife was kind of an asshole. Like even before the cheating, Jack is kinda into girls who hate him just a little. And Juliet pre-island is someone who is not good at standing up for herself, I mean she’s kind of a people pleaser. Too similar to Jack in her ability to put herself in a box for others, Jack would be the dominant one here and I don’t think that’s a role he’s comfortable with that role.

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Jack needs someone he can fight with.

I don’t think Jack could fight with Juliet.

All this to say, I think it would take an original character to rip Jack away from Kate, and I also think it would take someone he had a past with before he met Kate. Otherwise it genuinely doesn’t work, because once he sets eyes on Kate, I mean he’s kinda done for.

But like, okay imagine if that lady Gabrielle who he kissed while married was in the plane crash. Like, that’s the bare minimum level of intimacy he’d have to have with them. Actually, even that’s not enough. Jack would literally have to full on cheat on his wife pre-island (emotional and physical), and then have that person be at the crash to be a potential romantic interest that could rival Kate. Like, it would need to be a fully fledged out life-ruining affair.

Okay those are my 17 cents , I hope I answered your question at least to some extent lol ✌️

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Can someone please spam me asks about Jate? I’m crashing out bad. I NEEEDDDDD to talk about them, but I NEEEEDDDD a topic to focus on.

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The concept of David Shephard pisses me off a lot actually.

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Just saw a post that said Kate had the need to be fixed/cleaned with Jack. God I’m gonna crash the fuck out.