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kris seeing through their hand in the shadow crystal. all the "severed hand"/"guy who wakes up without a hand" references in the new chapters. berdly having his entire arm paralyzed in the hospital if you didn't spare him in chapter 2. toby fox talking about his chronic wrist pain often preventing him from coding and playing. learning to navigate his disability and how working in a team makes developing games possible for him, even if they don't perfectly represent his vision. the piano as THEE representation of kris' freedom and individuality outside of their role as The Cage. the option to tell susie that Kris will keep playing if she learns to play piano too...
if kris loses their hand and deltarune ends with a 3-hand concert where susie plays alongside them i am going to walk straight into the ocean
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was joking with a friend about the spamtenna baby being one of those fucked up cats noelle keeps spawning and then it was suddenly not a joke
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Last question you might for now but how do you now feel about Toriel and Asgore as characters? Asking now cause with Toriel, there’s some now some heated debate about her being a bad mother and even person, mostly stemming from that jitterbug scene which some people see as confirmation of what was implied about her and Kris relationship in the first 2 chapters and with Asgore, there’s many (including myself) that believe he might actually join us in a dw next chapter, mostly due to the line Gerso said chapter 5 being about “a garden charred by an inferno of jealousy”, which, given the current situation with Asgore and Toriel and her blossoming relationship with Sans, seems to track pretty much.
All I can say about this personally is that I hope we get more development on the dreamurr adults from now on, especially my poor boy Asgore, since I’ve always wished to get a lot more development of him ever since he was kinda pushed aside in UT in terms of that and also cause I don’t want to remain a punching bag character in DR either. What you say?
this is a really interesting topic so I’m glad to have an opportunity to talk about it. I think the main problem we’re facing here is that, as fandom tends to do, there’s this all-or-nothing approach to how we view characters, especially women. they’re either Good or they’re Bad. the good ones deserve sympathy and the bad ones deserve scorn. so people are currently trying to fit toriel into that dichotomy
to start, no I do not think toriel is a bad person lmao. I also disagree that she’s overall a bad mother- who gets to decide where that line is, anyway? what I do think is that what she did in this instance was extremely irresponsible and speaks to the biggest issue plaguing the dreemurr family: a lack of understanding and communication. kris is unable to communicate what they’re going through, and toriel is unable to understand their feelings. she clearly deeply loves her child and wants them to be happy, and tries her best to make that so. but toriel is still a person with feelings of her own, and I think how she feels about asgore has formed a barrier between her and kris.
we have to remember that toriel is still going through what seems like an EXTREMELY messy divorce. she wants to move on, and she probably could have by now, but her ex follows her around and hounds her with romantic gestures every single day. she must be stressed and exhausted. from her perspective she just wants asgore to leave her alone already and stop interrupting her life, and I’m sure that makes it difficult for her to sympathize with kris, who still loves their father. when we see somebody as a bad, hurtful person, it can become really hard to understand the feelings of those who care about them. it’s not that she doesn’t care about kris’s feelings, it’s more likely she just doesn’t recognize them in the first place.
toriel must have felt so free for the first time in ages to just be dancing and goofing around with a new (most likely much younger) man. that doesnt excuse the fact that she never told kris where she was, and didn’t bother checking up on them in turn, and instead got so drunk she forgot or stopped caring about her responsibilities and really upset kris and susie. but it does help us understand why she would do something like that. I don’t think we can fairly cast judgement on toriel’s overall character based on this incident, all we can do is cast judgement on these specific actions.
moving onto asgore- I can’t lie, I’m not happy with the guy. he’s literally harassing his ex-wife and doing it in front of their child, sometimes even using kris as an unwilling agent in his plans. but I’m sure that’s not at all how he sees it. from his perspective, if he can just convince toriel that whatever Happened wasn’t his fault, or was justified, then they’ll get back together and everything will go back to the way it was. and he thinks that to convince her he needs to get her to sit down and talk to him, and he thinks that to do that he needs to woo her and remind her of her old love for him. these are not malicious actions, but he doesn’t understand toriel and her feelings at all, and doesn’t seem to be attempting to. he doesn’t understand how uncomfortable he’s making kris either. he’s only focused on this end goal of getting back to normal. he’s not a bad person, he’s just completely oblivious.
because of that, even if when we find out what he did or didn’t do it does turn out to not be his fault at all, there’s still no way that toriel is going to forgive him and it wont change the fact that how he’s acting now is totally inappropriate. it’s in the same way that understanding toriel doesn’t change the fact that she failed kris when they needed her. but I can’t call either of them overall bad parents or bad people. flawed, sure, but all parents are. making a final and damning moral ruling on either of them based on their actions in a very rough situation seems pretty foolish to me
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So it's pretty clear that spamton used to be in the tv time intro, right? Because (Ignoring the red Tenna) this looks like the addison pose.


And this pose in the video is very 2D and stiff for Mr Tenna, who is notably pre rendered 3D and almost always moving, including in the other parts of this intro. Almost like they are cutouts edited over someone else.
And it's obvious based on the audio that there are edits there too. It's comically incoherent, especially for a first impression. "Feature" (Feacher?) And "coming straight from your house" are repeated twice, as though a pair of people would say it in turn or would be doing a call and response routine.
"He's the one (coming) The king of only" would make more sense as, "He's the one, the only, the king of [something]!" But if the [something] described Spamton, not Tenna, (which is likely since the visuals are an addison posed Tenna depicted with a crown) the incoherent mix of sentences could be an attempt to hide that by omitting the word entirely.
The next part seems a recent addition to the video by Tenna. Glooby is a unique term only he seems to use. Spamton says a lot of wierd things, but never "glooby". Then there's a blue egg, representing a pipis, and Tenna attacking it is a jab at Spamton, meaning that must have been added after they stopped working together. My guess, since the last part is implied to have been Tenna describing Spamton, is that this part used to have Spamton describing Tenna.
"The sensation of your screen! The show that makes you scream!" seems unedited. It's verbally coherent and even rhymes (sort of). It first shows noseless TV Tenna, then a computer being used. The latter being something that Tenna knows little about, but Spamton is very familiar with.
Then we have the addison posed Tenna being the one prompted to say the next line. Meaning Tenna wasn't originally the one to speak after that. We can't even be sure that "Mr (Ant) Tenna's TV TIME!" was always the next line. It could have been "[9/10 experts agree] you should never [trash heap] your [cathode ray tube]" for all we know.
I strongly believe this intro video has Spamton all over it, and he doesn't even show up.
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I’ve seen a lotta people saying Kris doesn’t like tenna, and tbh I’m not sure. Kris is such a mysterious character and there’s so many different factors at play here. Maybe kris doesn’t dislike tenna himself but dislikes how they can’t return to the past?? Idk idk. Like, tenna keeps bringing up times Kris desperately wants to return to but can’t and that’s probably gotta be hard for kris.
Anyway what r your thoughts on this? Do u think Kris likes, dislikes, or is neutral about tenna?
…. Man, is that a million-dollar-question if I ever heard one.
Kris is already a very emotionally guarded person. Like, we are in a uniquely distant position, generally unable to hear their words or see most of their expressions…
…But even the people who knew them all their life are often unsure of what they’re thinking and if they even like them.
Including Tenna. Like, one of the folks who wonder if Kris dislikes Tenna is Tenna himself.
And this Sword Route dialogue does at least seem to confirm that, like, even with Kris' words and expressions being generally imperceptible to the Players, Kris was legitimately not smiling, laughing or giving Tenna any sort of positive feedback through Chapter 3.
My general read on the situation is that Kris’ emotionally withdrawn behavior is something they developed relatively recently, due to all the Shit going on in their life, while Tenna mostly remembers them as the more emotionally expressive child who used to regularly ‘laugh and cry’ at his programming. So Tenna is very anxious about his inability to get that kind of reaction from Kris anymore, while folks who know Kris as they are now don’t really get it. Kris is just kinda Like That and it doesn’t mean they’re not having fun.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean they are having fun or like Tenna either… We really don’t have enough data to make definitive statements. Kris doesn’t seem to resist if we tell them to insult Tenna…
But if you tell them to compliment Tenna instead, Susie’s reaction doesn’t indicates that they said it in an overtly insincere manner either.
So maybe it proves Kris is too indifferent to Tenna to really resist insulting or complimenting him?
Kris' damage output during Tenna's Boss Fight is another interesting detail. On a normal Route, Kris is holding back against Tenna, doing half their usual damage output, which might indicates a reluctance to fight him……… But if you do the Sword Route, Kris suddenly does a lot more damage than normal, triple the regular amount against Tenna instead.
So I'd guess this is less about Kris' personal feelings about Tenna and more about the Knight's plan. Kris and the Knight seem to be working together, Tenna's role in the Knight's plan is to stall the heroes while the Knight does their thing…
So holding back in the fight as much as they can is Kris' subtle little way to try and help the Knight. Much like they also hold back in the fight against the Knight themself.
And then in the Sword Route, the thing that changed is…
Now that Tenna had accidently spilled even the vaguest details about their deal in front of the Player, Kris wants to make sure he stays quiet… or maybe they're just really pissed at him. Either way it makes them far more aggressive and dangerous if you let them attack Tenna.
I think maybe this extra damage isn't born of an emotional dislike, just simple pragmatism for what is the best for Team Knight's goals... but that still implies a serious emotional distance from Tenna - compared to Kris' clear moral conflict when the Knight's plans seem to clash with what's best for Susie, a person they actually do unambiguously like.
There's also the two non-Spamton Check results you can get for the Tenna Boss Fight, the standard one which is just kinda… extremely mean to Tenna. This is basically the worst thing he could imagine someone thinking about him and especially if this Check is coming from Kris.
And the Sword Route One is really....interesting.
It's clearly referencing Kris' increased damage against Tenna and I kinda read it as almost goading the Player into letting Kris attack him, but maybe this 'sadly' can be read as sincere. If these Checks are influenced by Kris' own emotions and feelings (which feels likely to me, although it's also important to note that this is still unconfirmed and might change depending on certain Narrator Theories), it might be Kris expressing regret for the fact that they feel like they have to attack Tenna with all their (tripled) might? Although I personally did read this 'sadly' as kinda sarcastic, if I'm honest.
Kris also doesn't flinch when 'killing' Tenna in-game the way they do with Susie and Ralsei.
(And that was before most of their big friendship-building moments with Ralsei in Chapter 4, when they still were, as far as we could tell, at best just kinda okay with that guy…)
And even the fact Kris and the Knight roped Tenna into their plans could potentially be a bad sign, considering, like…
But that really depends on how much the Knight and/or Kris are aware of this part of the Prophecy. A lot of people assume that the Knight, at least, knows the Full Prophecy, but nothing has really been confirmed yet…
Still, none of these little details really bode well for Kris' feelings for Tenna, and that's without getting into the way that, like you mentioned, Tenna puts Kris into games that just remind them of their total lack of control over their life and also keeps bringing up stuff that's clearly uncomfortable to Kris to reminisce about.
(We can't hear (read?) Kris' half of this conversation, but Tenna's reaction seem to suggest they were Very Obviously Not Happy with what he said.)
Maybe they're emotionally mature enough to separate their dislike of the things Tenna say and how uncomfortable he often makes them from a dislike of Tenna as a person and also emotionally mature enough to recognize that they and Tenna share very similar trauma but just cope with it in very different ways. Their readiness to become BFFs with Susie seem to indicate they are capable of it, but...
With relatively little information or character moments that indicate affection towards Tenna, my interpretation is that they're indifferent at best towards him. They probably don't hate him or actively wish he was dead or anything, but he's more of a tool to their and the Knight's plan than anything.
Although… being treated like a tool to the Knight's plan might just be another thing that Kris and Tenna have in common…
Of course, part of the tragedy of Tenna is how, like, even in the best case scenario, even if Kris did find Tenna's personality fun and realized they were both working off the same trauma and honestly did not want him to come to any harm despite the Knight and their plans… Even if Kris likes Tenna, they're never gonna love him back the way Tenna loves Kris.
From Tenna's POV, he is a member of the Dreemurr Household just like Kris is. I make a kinda jokey post before about how he's technically Kris' 'Lesser Dad', but it's probably more accurate to say that Tenna thinks of his role as 'the Household TV' as it's own established familial role on the same level as 'uncle' or 'older brother'. In Tenna's eyes perspective, he and Kris are family, he lived with Kris all their life, watched them grow up, helped raised them by providing them with endless hours of fun and entertainment…
But for Kris, that was literally just the television, an inanimate object. There are a lot of very sweet Tenna fancomics showing him, like, comforting Tiny Kris during difficult times in their childhood, and these comics are wonderful… but it's important to remember they are depicting Tenna's perspective of these events. Or, well, Tenna certainly remembers that at the time he wasn't actually actively comforting and entertaining Kris in his Darkner form - he does know that he was just a Light World Television that was used to watch cartoons or play games, but for Tenna this feels equivalent to actively being a pseudo-parental figure comforting and taking care of Kris.
But from Kris' perspective, they were literally just watching TV. Maybe they have some nostalgic attachment towards the TV itself (AKA Tenna) for being an oasis of escapism during difficult times, or maybe they attach these emotions more to the actual specific shows and games they liked or to the people they shared those moments with… They just didn't experience these moments the way that Tenna experienced them.
They only got to meet Tenna as a person when they opened the Dark Fountain, so they're only about as familiar with him as any other member of the Fun Gang is. And characters in Deltarune do make bonds relatively quickly, but even in the best-case-scenario of Kris' feelings for Tenna, it would've taken them time to develop the same sense of familiarity and affection that Tenna feels towards them. And... that's not really Kris' fault for not anthropomorphizing their TV enough back when it was just a TV, it's just yet another tragic aspect about Darkners' whole existence.
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animated the "It's okay not to smile" scene from chapter 4
youtube link
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