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[ralfthecat]

#love a woman with a sword

[ralfthecat]

OK, I seriously can't believe someone actually thinks this about season 4 of Never Have I Ever:

"In 2023, the message of the show suddenly turned into *"racism, white supremacy, patriarchy, and class inequity doesn't exist anymore. Devi did a Bollywood dance, got into Princeton, and a racist white guy said he loves her at the last minute, so everything is going to be okay (for Gen Z)."*

This is the opposite of the premise that the show started with in 2020, which acknowledged the brutal unfairness in the world."

Firstly, it wasn't a Bollywood dance. They danced to the Tamil dubbed version of a song that is originally Telugu. Tamil cinema is known as Kollywood, and Telugu cinema is known as Tollywood. Maybe people who comment so much on racism should learn a little more about not clubbing all of Indian culture together. As a Telugu woman who lives in Tamil Nadu, I'd like to say that I was really happy with the dance number. I was especially happy because it wasn't a Bollywood dance (season 1 just used Hindi songs, and that really annoyed me because Devi is Tamil).

The show literally acknowledged that Devi ("our little hothead from the valley") was happy in that moment. There was no claim about everything being okay forever. It's just that she is better equipped to deal with problems now. She will continue to grow non-linearly, just like she did throughout the show.

Of course, the show became less about dealing with intense grief as it went on - time heals. But they did portray that grief still lingers, despite that.

Also, the portrayal of familial relationships was great - Devi talking about how it's cool to live with three generations of women in her house, Nalini having to deal with empty nest syndrome, Nalini talking about her own struggle with having to start over in the US after being a top resident in India (but of course, the last season does not acknowledge how brutally unfair the world is /s) and how she was just trying to protect Devi from being devastated, Devi setting her mother up (showing how much she had healed and grown since season 2), Kamala being too attached to her family to move away and Nalini telling her that change is good (and even Kamala's coping mechanism of becoming overprotective of Nirmala), Kamala and Devi's sweet moments, the family's acceptance and joyous celebration of Nirmala finding love again, Nirmala calling Nalini out for being mean to Devi, and of course, the heartwarming scene of Nalini helping Devi pack and telling her she's proud of her. Devi's final monologue focused primarily on how much she cares about her mother. Did all of that mean nothing to some people?

Never Have I Ever is not an unproblematic show. But I still can't believe it's being reduced to this. I. Seriously. Just. Can't. Devi was so much more comfortable in her skin than when the show started, and was no longer obsessed with external validation. Her relationship with Nalini had improved greatly. She embraced her culture so much more. She was okay with not getting into Princeton, and realised that she'd always be connected to her father no matter what. I don't mind that she didn't completely give up on her Princeton dream. I don't think she needed to, to show that she had healed. She was able to tell her dad's story in a way that felt true to herself, and did not feel exploitative (she reclaimed her power from a racist white guy). She was truly happy when she prayed to the gods before leaving to Princeton. She was surrounded by people who cared about her and loved her, as she said. And she was happily in the middle of a fun game of Never Have I Ever before Ben showed up. She had learned to love herself and her life. The show having a happy (for now) ending does not equal them saying that everything is going to be okay forever. The world is still brutally unfair. Devi is just a little better at dealing with it.

I don't know who needs to hear this but Never Have I Ever had a TEAM DEVI ending! Just because Devi was not single at the end of the show/ended up with someone you dislike, it doesn't mean that the ending wasn't a win for team Devi.

TEAM DEVI FOR THE WIN! AND THAT'S WHAT WE GOT.

I'll acknowledge that there were issues with the show throughout all four seasons. But I can't see such an empowering show being dismissed in such a ridiculous way.

[ralfthecat]

I was bored and made some Season Four related memes. I mostly made them to be petty about Ethan, but I got carried away. 😂

[ralfthecat]

I'm tempted to be extremely petty, to the point where if I see a comment on a video that says something like "Team Ethan" or "I stopped watching after she dumped Ethan", I'll just reply with "Who?!" Because that's the lasting impression he had left on me.

[ralfthecat]

One final Never Have I Ever love triangle thematic analysis

I've said this in one of my posts before, but the narrative is always going to favor what is best for Devi. A lot of what makes this show so juicy to dive into is because so much of its meaning is rooted in symbolism and higher concepts, not just the individual interactions you're looking at onscreen!

I think that's what doesn't work for some (not all) pro-Dxton anti-Ben folks. They see Paxton being respectful and kind to Devi, they see that he's the attractive object of her affection from day 1, and they see that the two of them genuinely do help each other in certain ways. But when these same people look at Benvi, they only see Ben making obnoxious comments to Devi (+ others), they see childish behavior and mistakes being made, and they see them frequently butting heads due to their shared competitive nature.

And honestly? I get it. These conclusions are easy to come to when you're looking at the surface, but they don't take into account the full story that's being told.

Let's get into it. 😎👇

I mentioned before the idea of what is best for Devi. Not what is best for any regular person out there -- what is best for Devi Vishwakumar! Our girl expresses in no uncertain terms that she enjoys her hypercompetitive rivalry-turned-bond with Ben ("Ben's smart and we talk- mostly argue- for hours!" // "I don't want to break up with Ben. He really pushes me.") The fact that they fight and compete is not a detriment to their compatibility, it is actually the thing that makes him most desirable in her mind. She would not have wanted to be with him in the first place if this were not true. Their sharp-tongued communication style may not be the standard picture of a 'healthy' relationship for most people, but, well. Devi and Ben are far from 'most people'.

Our protagonist is an incredibly emotional, dynamic person who's always searching for another high. The knife-edge nature of her relationship with Ben is enough to satisfy her itch for novelty/excitement (her differences with Paxton don't hit this box), yet Ben's presence also provides a comforting long-term consistency in her life that keeps her in touch with her True Self. He's seen the very best and the very worst of her and he always comes back. He frequently brings Devi back to herself, too, when she loses sight of what matters (friendships, family, sense of self, her goals, etc).

Then there's the dream vs. reality dichotomy that very much applies to this love triangle. Simple as it may be, it's accurate. I believe it was built that way on purpose because of how well it reflects Devi's relationships to Mohan and Nalini, which is the beating heart of what NHIE is all about. One (Mo/Pax) is more outwardly palatable than the other and provides an easygoing, self-soothing escapism that she needs in order to work through her grief. This person represents youth and the rose-colored past; Devi's tendency to idealize and indulge. The other person (Nal/Ben) is sharper around the edges, a bit harder to swallow, but pushes Devi to do better and supplies the support she needs. This person represents Devi's grounded reality; her time in the present, which is a gift she needs to embrace and hold close to her heart.

They are both important pieces of Devi's journey, but the themes of past vs. present speak for themselves! The past is something we keep in our heart, someone who has impacted us and we'll always carry with us -- but the ultimate goal is to move forward from that. The central relationship of Never Have I Ever is, without any doubt, that of Devi & Nalini as they heal and grow together. In terms of Devi's romantic life (which is what this analysis is about), her relationship with Ben is the one that more closely shadows the series arc between her & Nalini.

I'd like to address some things by the individual season now. One of my observations watching s1 for the first time was that Paxton was usually aligned with bad things in Devi's life, whereas Ben was aligned with the good. ie, Paxton was the source of Devi's falling out with Elfab and Nalini // Ben is the one who repaired those relationships. These things aren't Paxton's fault, nor do I place any blame on him. They're just subtle narrative choices that send up unspoken flags saying, hey look, this isn't the right person for her. This theme mostly remained in s1, but given that it was NHIE's debut season, it planted several seeds for me about who the boys were for Devi and how they fit into her world.

Season 2 does a lot to sort out the difference in what Devi thinks she wants (Paxton) and what her heart truly wants (Ben). Yes, I'm going there, too: head vs. heart. Devi's underlying preference for Ben > Paxton should be easy to spot as early as 2x01 -- if only for the fact that Devi finally bagged the hot guy of her dreams, yet, choosing to be with him isn't easy for her! In fact, as both Devi and Eleanor confirm later, she wanted to choose Ben in the first place. Like... that's crazy!!! So despite all the pieces falling into place for her and Paxton, and against her friends' shallow advice, she decides that she won't let go of Ben. Instead, she makes the misguided decision to date both. This isn't the kind of mistake she'll ever make again. It isn't Devi acting out because of Ben -- it signals a profound attachment to him when, all things considered, picking Paxton should have been a no brainer. That revealed everything I needed to know in order to understand that being with Paxton wasn't what she wanted in her heart of hearts.

Then, of course, 3x10 brings that all home with the stomach knots comparison. As a bonus, Devi even explicitly states that Paxton was a dream! Ben, however -- her flawed reality -- is the one who still gives her butterflies. This is the result of Devi's slow awakening to her true inner self, the Devi who values realness and authenticity and loving through imperfection. It's a step closer to the complete acceptance of herself. (Notice as well that right after this point, it becomes more undeniable than ever that Ben is who she wants to be with.)

As long as Paxton was a romantic possibility for Devi, their relationship was tied to her feelings of insecurity and inferiority. Again this is not Paxton's fault -- he assures her of the opposite all the time -- but this is Devi's story, and we are shown over and over that Devi fears true vulnerability with Paxton (both sexually and emotionally). Compare this to the way she has always been confident, Seen(tm), driven, and unabashedly herself in her relationship with Ben, even when they were enemies. At a glance Devi may appear to act more immature with Ben, but she grows with him more than anyone else (besides Nalini) thanks to Ben's habit of encouraging accountability and showing her that actions can have consequences.

Anyway, TLDR version:

Paxton = Devi's youth, Mohan, grief, distraction, the past, idealism, and the head (constructed ideas). Ben = Devi's true self, Nalini, healing, confrontation, the present, reality, and the heart (authentic truths).

Never Have I Ever's romantic story structure rests on the premise of these symbolic definitions. They are gospel, and while the characters will grow and change and become better versions of themselves, they will do so within the lines that are already drawn. The lines exist for a reason -- they are a narrative tool. These characters cannot and should not 'grow out' of their roles because those roles are their identities within the show's framework. Character development isn't being wasted because the characters are exactly who they are meant to be right through to the end. They are symbols. If that's not your cup of tea, so be it! But there's nothing wrong with this writing style; in fact it's one of my favorites because everything is so neatly defined, yet fascinating to read into 🥰

The imperfect Ben had to be Devi's true love because her love interests are, in a way, reflections of herself. By no fault of his own, Devi always felt the need to be "perfect" for Paxton due to her romanticized perception of him. That is the point of their story together. Her acceptance of the deep love she has for Ben (AND Nalini!), despite his sometimes off-putting outer demeanor, is aligned with Devi's acceptance of her own imperfections -- that she is hot-headed, she can be self-absorbed, she makes mistakes -- but that she is also brilliant and driven and caring and radiant, and she is equally worthy of receiving the love that she has to offer others.

Narratively speaking, it was never truly a competition.

[ralfthecat]

my favorite thing about never have I ever is that it's not about a love triangle at all.

the whole show is about grief, loss and loneliness. the emptiness left by the death of a loved one. the trauma that watch someone who's your whole world die before your eyes. the fact that your pain is not only yours, it's shared with your mother and your cousin and his mother and everyone is drinking from the same fountain of endless despair, everyone copes in their own ways but the pain is so paradoxically individual and collective that your coping affects other's lives too.

she never really loved paxton, but dreamed of him to distract herself from the pain she felt when mohan passed and because the show starts with him already gone, we never know who devi was before that happened, we just know that she was not that "unhinged". she loves her friends but they suddenly does not understand her even though eleanor never sees her mother who actively chose leave her behind. she loves ben but howard is never there and his mother is always away and he's so lonely that she doesn't see him as a dreamy fit because it's her mirror, he lonely as she is and she can't deal with that.

she choose to make all the sort of bad decisions and deal with it consequences later just to during one moment in a party a coyote appears and she thinks it's her father a boy plays with her dad tennis racket her new boyfriend watch her play in the orchestra and she sees her father in the audience but he's not there and her mother is grieving too without never know how to deal with her and now she's so in pain and everyone says she's too much for them her pain is too much a inconvenience her sorrow is too messy and they leave they leave they leave she's alone she's too much she's replaceable shes embarrassing she's jealous she craves love that she once had and now it's not there and she's empty looking for anything to fill the void that he left

but you laugh at her bad decisions and root for her all along the way we want her to feel something other than the pain she deals with

and then, someday, she's not so mad anymore. she's okay with her mother finding love. she's breaking up bad relationships and supporting her friends even tho it hurts her. she's not harming herself just to feel something, she's not rejecting her mirror in form a lover, she's not so confused or empty. she survived. honestly, how beautiful is that?

[ralfthecat]

love them so much 🥺

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Benvi In Season 4

[ralfthecat]

the weirdest s4 opinions are the ones about ethan and being mad at fabiola applying/getting into princeton

• YES! I keep seeing all these 14 year olds being so upset that Devi didn’t end up with Ethan because “she could fix him” and he “really liked her”. Devi shouldn’t be in the business of fixing ANYONE!!!! (Also note to all the Ethan Stan’s: never be in a relationship where you feel like you have to fix someone, that never works). Ethan did not “really like her”, he just thought she was hot (which is super fair tbh, I do not fault him for that). I can guarantee you that as soon as Devi dumped him, he skipped off to hook up with someone else.

His future includes nothing. Like that boy has zero ambition and probably disappeared because he got expelled.

Devi is driven and smart. She wanted to go to an Ivy League school!!! (She went to one). Like she wants to have a career!!! To quote Maitreyi herself, “Ethan was here for a good time not a long time.”

Also if people really wanted her to be with a super hot guy. Paxton is right there!! And he isn’t a bum. But maybe he has to much emotional depth for them idk.

• I don’t get why people are so mad at Fabiola. Like she applied to a school, she is allowed to apply anywhere she wants. Devi even acknowledged that. Fab apologize and so did Devi. I have no idea why people are so mad about this.

[ralfthecat]

It’s annoying seeing ppl act like everything ben has to offer aaa throwing insults at Devi and take out of context their entire dynamic and want to paint him as bully.

I think there’s legitimate reasons to find Ben unlikable but one of my biggest pet peeves upon interacting in this circle is the fake concern and refusal to acknowledge Ben and Devi’s dynamic for what it is and that NHIE is a comedy show and approaches scenes that way.

Ben and Devi’s entire dynamic was based on mutual rivalry. A big portion of this fandom wants to pretend Devi was a victim of Ben’s insults and their dynamic was one-sided, like she wasn’t giving exactly what she was receiving from him. They both go after each other. Their dynamic was born out of mutual "hate" and later turned into insults neither of them cares about. The point about Ben and Devi's comedic dynamic is that we as an audience should know that none of those insults are actually serious. Ben and Devi don't care.

But there's a side that wants to rally and be "morally superior".

Ben calling Devi UN did impact her and it was an awful thing to do and you can hate it while admitting that is a term that has not value anymore and both have moved on. Part of this fandom loves to take Ben's lines at face value but never mention that N*zi comment Devi threw at him (you dont care about Jewish people, get it). It's never been that deep once they found themselves in a genuine friendship.

You can hate his insensible comments from Season 1, and don’t ship him with Devi because that's valid. It's the refusal to acknowledge there’s a significant difference in his banter/insults with Devi since becoming friends. He really cares about her and would stop if she was uncomfortable (and she isn't). And, while I get why some people don't like the “David” – it has never been that deep on the show. Devi does not care. And that's a nickname Jaren uses for Maitreyi in real life too, might you. After 12 years, if Devi had wanted him to stop, she would’ve told him off but she doesn't care and it has turned into a term of endearment and familiarity, not a "degrading" nickname. Both Devi and Ben are mean towards each other in a comfortable space and would put boundaries if needed. You can absolutely agree that Ben is too brash and a condescending, privileged snub that has a lot to learn but it's not irredeemable. I like the fact he can be unlikable. I don’t consume media expecting flawless characters.

I feel like people came up with this whole “Ben entire persona is insulting Devi” because fan wars have become this thing where you need to make the other side the “enemy” to feel like you are in the “better” side. You don't have to like them but painting their dynamic as if he was Devi's bully is a bit wild. Ben has done incredible things for her and there’s a mutual friendship. They do seek each other out when the other needs them. He knows her like no one else does and it's always there to push her to be the best version both academically and with her loved ones. They are compatible because they are both driven and share the same humor. Devi likes that dynamic with Ben. She doesn’t feel dumb down by him but challenged. Both have grown and their banter has become more friendly because now they know neither of them are serious. You can hate it, don’t enjoy it but it’s the lies about their dynamic that feels like nitpicking and if I didn't watch the show and it's context I would think he is awful too.

And Ben is literally head over heels for that girl. He thinks she’s perfect and she knows it. Devi is not longer the poor insecure girl some want her to be. Let them insult each other as part of their kinky full hatred flirting ways and move on. It’s never been that serious. I think there’s other ships that deserve that energy instead.

[ralfthecat]

i still can't believe they filmed this.

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It hits different cause it’s  y o u

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I knew they were going to leave the big kiss for the last moment but of Maitreyi and Jaren did not disappoint because why was I holding my breathe and the juxtaposition of Devi sharing a moment so physically and emotionally charged with everything that represents her culture.

ANON, YOU MUST BE A MIND READER BECAUSE THIS IS THE EXACT THING I HAVE BEEN SPIRALING ABOUT.

It is everything to me!!! The way that Devi wearing a sari while getting with Ben symbolizes the reconciliation of her two most formative identities as an American teenager and a Desi woman!!! Two identities that she once thought were at odds with each other, but now she has embraced the fact that THEY ARE NOT! 🗣📢

Ben represents the full acceptance and unity of every part of who she is. He always has, but this brings it back home in the most breathtaking of ways.

And yes, I cannot tell you what a relief it was to finally have another moment of payoff for Maitreyi & Jaren's chemistry. I've always said that the key to having great romantic chemistry onscreen isn't about being attracted to your scene partner, but by being great friends with them offscreen, and these two perfectly prove my point. They gave me butterflies the first time I watched 1x10, and I got butterflies again in 4x10. They're just spectacular together.

[ralfthecat]

[ralfthecat]

Ben entering Devi's bedroom through the window and saying it's more hard that it looks like, it's that kind of reality that they relationship has.

I mean Paxton was the dream, Ben is the thing that happens to Devi when she was making plans.

He's not the perfect boy, but he's the real thing.

[ralfthecat]

It's so wild seeing people call Ben an "abuser" and feeling disgusted that a show would romanticize him.

Like... that's an extreme take. I feel like they've skipped quite a few steps to get to that point.

It's like "GAH! A flawed character! Let's burn them at the stake!"

I know it must suck that the ship you wanted didn't end up together, but damn! Calm down!