rockofeye

[rockofeye]

Hi, Alex. I really appreciate you sharing your journey to leaving the sosyete and what has come afterward for you, and I am in awe of your willingness to say difficult things out loud when it seems like no one else in that community has been listened to. I have gone through similar things in a spiritual community and was wondering if you could talk about what healing looks like in such a complex situation and how you move forward. Additionally, can you identity anything that gave you pause even

(Continued since I ran out of space) before the death of your sibling and what happened from there? Thank you again for your candor and self reflection.

Hi there,

Thank you for your thoughtful message, and I am sorry to hear you have had an unpleasant experience in a spiritual community. I am hearing this a lot lately, and it's distressing.

I don't know if it is that other people who remain in Sosyete Nago aren't being listened to, but I think a bottom line that I needed a lot of time to be able to see was that what people say within that community is not valued and does not get treated with the importance it should be. If it had historically or in the present, that community would be healthier and whole. Instead, it is a community still reeling from an untimely death that was not processed religiously or communally in the appropriate ways, and it is a community where there has been an undercurrent of harmful behavior for the entire lived memory of the community. There are allegations unexplored and unhealthy with and people who have caused harm have never been called to account. So, the community reflects those ills. It's tough.

Healing is such a slippery thing, because I think that how we talk about healing leads us to believe that, at some point, there is some switch that just flicks off and you never feel upset, disturbed, or activated about the particular thing you have sought healing for or from. That's not how healing works for most things, at least in my experience. It is complex, just as we are all complex people.

What I have learned while treading water in my own process is that, at least for me, healing is both cyclical and layered.

For me, I see healing as cyclical because it is not linear: I do not start in a placed labeled 'unhealed' and arrive at another place labeled 'healed' and it's done. Instead, I roll around with my healing process. To paraphrase a variety of different resources on grief following death, sometimes what needs healing is the size of a marble in a shoebox and it flits back and forth with the circumstances of my life. I can see it and if I want to pay attention to it I can or it just rolls in the background.

Sometimes what needs healing is the size of the boulder threatening to flatten Indiana Jones in that one movie (or bigger!), and I either get out of the way or I get run over by it. As time goes on, I have had significantly less moments of it being the world-shattering boulder, which I see as progress, but sometimes it's still like that.

It's also unpacking the layers of how I have been affected by my own circumstances and experiences. There's a lot. I have to dig through the layers of profound betrayal that got revealed in a very short amount of time: the layer of the mother I chose betraying me by not only allowing someone to speak filth onto my child and onto me, but by remaining silent when this was discussed by every Haitian between the US, Canada, France, and Haiti, the layer of having been lied to for years not only by the mother I chose but by other house members in the US who knew about the lies and said nothing, the layer of having people I have cared about turn their back despite being aware of truth in pursuit of not having to look at those difficult truths, the betrayal of watching a community allow a damaging status quo to continue, and the betrayal of being able to see how I was used and discarded.

It's a lot, and, when the boulder has been big, it has felt like it would choke me out...but that is just a feeling. I don't know how to process those layers since there is no logic that can explain how all of that came to pass, but I can look at it all these days and just shake my head instead of being angry and tearful. I see that as progress now, too, and am grateful that it remains in the form of a marble shooting around in the shoebox of my life.

I think one of the things I realized early on is that whatever healing is means that things will never be the same shape as they were before the sky fell in with all of this and I won't be the same as I was, either, which is overall a very good thing, even when it has been hard to reckon. It brings on its own form of grief; I grieve for the person I was before all this, I grieve for who my mother was at one point in time, I grieve for my child who will never know relationships and community that were so formative for theie creation, I grieve for relationships that have not survived this, I grieve for lwa who will never take the same form again, and I just grieve, because it's incredibly sad...but it bounces around like a marble.

Lately, I have been able to look at my grief and find the gratitude. I am grateful I got out relatively unharmed. I am grateful that my child will never know anything but a community that values them and loves them. I am grateful that the lwa prepared a road for me, rather than having the road end when I left. I am grateful that I knew my worth. I am grateful for every moment of pain that has turned into a blessing in the hands of the lwa. That's also progress, because there were times when my overall outlook was roughly 'I hate all of this, what a giant waste of my time and effort, I am tired of living, fuck everything and everybody'.

I have chosen to envision this process of healing as a way to begin again and to live more fully into my purpose. I've stopped envisioning these places of vulnerability as places of hurt and instead hold them as places where wisdom lives for me. Based on these experiences, I know how to shape my lakou in a way that does not repeat patterns of dysfunction and inequity, or, at the very least, when situations that could be dysfunctional and inequitable arise, I have a very finely tuned internal alarm that gets loud pretty quick these days. In these places of wisdom, I have learned more about the soft places of my own soul and how I nurture those instead of trying to plaster over them.

I think, for me, that is how I move forward. This has required a change of worldview that sets aside the default paranoid outlook I was taught and chooses a more holistic and communal viewpoint of people and relationships. It's been like setting a weight down, honestly. It's not perfect, of course, because nothing is, but overall I have way more good days than bad days with all of this.

There were things that I noticed or that were passed on to me that gave me a lot of pause. I watched a lot of what was happening within the sosyete and thought a lot about how displeased leadership would have been had those things happened even a few years earlier. I was extremely concerned about what current and past house members were sharing about supposed financial obligations that were being presented as normal or traditional. There were times where I disliked how I was spoken to or treated, and I internalized a lot of that or assigned particular values to that that I now realize was rather self defeating and lacking in holding other people accountable. There were ways of caring for each other that I observed in other communal settings that really tugged on my heart, because they were very much not present in Sosyete Nago.

An experience I had was of feeling unwanted or only wanted when my labor or presence was needed, and, since leaving, I have heard that as a common feeling or experience among my siblings, both who remain and who have also left. I think those feelings were ways of holding us all separately, as, since leaving, I have been approached by other siblings who had been told how much I didn't like them in particular or who were told how much I was unliked, etc. This is an unfortunate way of controlling a community; when the environment is built so that no one talks to each other, the group at large is easier to hold in place. It makes me sad, but it's also no longer my responsibility and is something I have let go of.

And, to be very clear, I also had a huge problem with how my child had been spoken on and how I was assumed to be lacking in morality and dragged for my supposed infidelity. I was aware of this prior to Dana's passing but had held it to deal with after the house had returned from Haiti. I couldn't make sense of it and planned to discuss it, but July 2024 was a disaster that unfolded for months. So, that was sitting on my shoulders for awhile.

I appreciate your comments. Part of my healing and my own process of accountability has been to speak very directly and bluntly about my experiences and what I saw. A lot of people at least visited Sosyete Nago because of what they read here and quite a few did more than just visit. I can't remain silent as if I agree with everything. There were things I remained silent about where I could have spoken (at least internally), so I do my best now not to repeat those same errors.

So...that's what I've got. Healing is messy and I don’t think it ever really ends or is complete. Instead, it changes shape as we change shape and grow.

I hope this was helpful.

[rockofeye]

Hey Alex. Please help me out . I had a reading about my spiritual court and there were certain lwa that there isn't much information out there about. Could you tell me something about them, what colors they take, which objects do they like and what are they like? What interesting experiences did you had with them if you would like to share? And what means Olicha in vodou? Thank you so much, really appreciate you❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥🥲 ok, Ogou Balizio and Agaou Wedo.

Hi,

I can definitely tell you what I know, but the person who gave you the reading should really be the one to be giving you info since that kind of information can be really place specific.

I think you mean Ogou Balizay, who is pretty well known. He is an Ogou who can move around between the Nago rite and the Petwo rite, and is very similar to Ogou Balendyo; some people might even call them brothers. Like Balendyo, Balizay usually takes the manch pilon, or the big pestle used to crush leaves in the pilon during ceremonies instead of a machete. If someone doesn't have that, a baton is a good substitute. He will drink rum in general; if he is coming from andeyo he will likely be given a special mixed drink since lwa andeyo largely do not drink rum. He takes red/blue/white or red/blue/khaki.

Agaou Wedo is a very well known Agaou. He is a lwa who lives in the sky and sees everything that happens from that vantage point. He often comes with a temperament like Ogou and is considered a warrior as well. He has a very close relationship with St Michael the Archangel and image is often given to him. He will take the colors red, green, yellow, and khaki in any combination he dictates, and is often given a chapo and baton, or sometimes a machete. He will drink whiskey or rum, or a special mixed drink depending on where he is coming from.

I don't know Balizay as well as I know other Ogou. The times I have seen him, he has been very demanding and comes hard in his chwal in a very physical way.

I know Agaou in general to be a lwa full of depth that people often miss. He picks and chooses who he wants to deal with and is a lwa who sees everything that is happening and sits back to watch what people do. If he walks with you, you have the opportunity for a lot of luck and good stuff to come to pass for you, if you listen to what he says and do as he indicates.

Olicha/olisha is a word that descends from the commonly known 'orisha', but tends to be used in a different way. It can be used to describe lwa, like lwa olisha, which refers to Nago lwa and Ogou. It's also a name of a particular lwa, called Olisha Nago, close to Jean Nago and other Nago lwa.

Hope this helps! Let me know if I can offer more info.

[rockofeye]

Do you have tips for learning Kreyol if I don’t have someone to speak it with regularly? I’m doing Pimsleur AND Duolingo and still struggling a bit 😭. Thank you 🙏

Hey!

I actually prefer Mango Languages over Pimsleur and Duolingo; if you have a public library card, you can probably get to it via your library. If your library doesn't have it, you can get a virtual card to Boston Public Library, which does offer it as a free perk. Pimsleur is really focused on essentially learning how to pick up women in Port Au Prince, and Duolingo has some significant errors and mistranslation that make things hard.

Listening to Haitian music and watching Haitian movies and TV shows is also very helpful to learn the cadence and mannerisms of the language. YouTube is your bestie for that. For Vodou music, I specifically recommend Sò Anne and Samba Ralph, since they sing slowly and clearly...both are on YouTube and Spotify.

Some universities have learning opportunities; I can vouch for the University of Massachusetts at Boston's Haitian Creole Institute that happens over the summer; they do remote and in-person. It has already started for this summer, unfortunately. More and more universities and colleges are offering classes, so look in your area. I found classes really helpful for understanding context of the language as well as a deep dive into grammar rules.

Beyond speaking, those are the best ways I can recommend! It's great that you're working to learn.

I've tossed around the idea of doing a beginning Haitian Kreyòl class series for vodouizan and interested folks based on how I learned, which was based first in religious practice. If there is interest, I'd be happy to put something together.

Hope this helps!

[rockofeye]

If I am disabled, would I be able to participate and be accepted into the community of vodou? What are the perceptions of voudouizan with disabilities in the community? I am from the Caribbean and there is generally a negative view on mental illness as well. Is this so with the vodou community as well?

Hi,

There's no religious reason someone with a disability can't participate in Vodou. Health information is considered personal information, and so it's not something that would be part of public discourse. If someone has a visible disability, someone might say (for example) 'li gen yon men ki pa bon'/he has a hand that is not good, but that's really about it. Someone with a physical disability that requires mobility devices or other accommodations may have a challenging time in Haiti, since there are very few buildings etc that are built with different physical needs in mind but that's really about it.

In my experience, what is considered disability in Haitian culture is very narrow; the most common words to describe disability in Kreyòl refer to things that are quite visible and indicate someone who may not be able to care for themselves or interact with the world without assistance.

The views I have seen on mental illness within the setting of Haitian Vodou is that it is inherently treatable through spiritual means combined with Western medicine, if that is available for someone; I have largely seen this as true for all non-physical maladies. This is described as someone who may be enstab/unstable, and there are things that are done as interventions for that to increase stability and cool/heat the head, based on individual circumstances. Most people outside of Haiti have access to medicine to support mental health, if indicated by their care team, and folks should always continue to take their medicine as directed, as Vodou and the lwa support balanced interventions.

What I have seen is attitudes changing over the last decade as folks gain more knowledge and more understanding of how we all are as people.

What is hard and can be limiting in Haiti is the lack of infrastructure to support both the lived reality of folks with disabilities and the development of broader understanding of what mental illness is and how it affects folks. Certainly you can get traditional Western treatment for mental health matters....if you have money and can access one of the five (or less!) psychiatrists in the entire country, who work out of bigger population centers. Unfortunately, a lot of the treatment for folks who are significantly affected and do not have the money to access Western treatment or who are in emergent situations has not progressed past what we in the US may see as the dark ages of psychiatric treatment: folks in straight jackets or literally chained up to prevent them harming themselves or other.

The lwa themselves are incredibly pragmatic: okay, you have thing that affects you; here is what I want you to do for treatment, and keep taking your pills because they help. They expect all of us to live up to out best selves and put effort into that, and whatever we are carrying with us doesn't make us anymore special or less special than anyone else. We are neither held back nor put ahead based on what we carry with us, and are expected to do what is our best within our individual circumstances.

I hope this helps--please let me know if I can be of more assistance!

[rockofeye]

Hello, if I am looking for a sentitivity reader for a fiction Spiralist / science fiction novel I am working on which features 29 lwa, and wondered if this may be something you do, and if so, how I can best get in touch? Thank you.

That is something I do, feel free to get in contact at hounganalex@gmail.com.

[rockofeye]

Are you going to Haiti any time soon? What are your thoughts about people who are planning to go right now?

Hi there,

No, I am not currently planning to go to Haiti until Haiti is at least a little more stable.

For your second question, I think broader context and background is helpful.

Right now, Haiti has no effective government and most systems of support and care we are used to in the US are not available. While there has been some progress in routing out gangs and restoring neighborhoods to peace, the entire capital is inaccessible due to gang seizure of territory and the national route in and out of the capital is unpassable. The largest airport in Haiti is effectively cut off and US based airlines have suspended all flights there because planes were being shot at, so arrival and departure requires traveling to different areas in the country and traveling by small commuter plane, which is quite expensive at the moment ($500USD between the capital and Cap Ayisyen, where the other international airport is). The largest hospital in the country that was equipped to handle complicated emergencies and traumas was burned down this spring. The US embassy is running on a skeleton staff and is very clear that they cannot help US citizens if there are problems.

Conservative estimates say about a million people have been displaced from their homes due to gang violence. This violence is incredibly serious: kidnapping, burning people in their homes, rape, and murder, ranging from people being shot down in the street while going about their days to an infant being snatched from her mother's arms and thrown into a fire. Yes, it sounds incredible but those things have happened and can be verified through news stories. Violence is concentrated in the capital, but gangs are industrious and have started to branch out. Police are outnumbered and outgunned and do not respond to emergencies like we are used to outside of Haiti.

If violence explodes and you need to flee or the government announces that they are diverting all flights to or from the country (which has happened when I have been there), there's no easy way out of the country. There is no more jumping in a van and driving to Port-au-Prince before the sun comes up because the routes are blockaded by gangs. You are stuck.

There are no municipal utilities available; recently, municipal electricity was turned in the south for the first time in THREE YEARS due to a political event, and then it went right back off. Gas shortages mean private generators struggle to stay on, which in turn leads to things like shortage of clean water as sanitation plants do not have power to run. Gangs regularly attack and dismantle substations responsible for cell phone service and signal, so communication is easily cut off. Most local hospitals are unstaffed or have no supplies available, and what supplies are available must be paid for piece by piece and upfront, meaning if you are cut and need stitches (for example), you must pay for the gloves, mask, gauze, saline, skin disinfectant, sutures and filament, local anesthetic, bandages, any antibiotics, the overall fee for the appointment etc before they will treat you, and that's if those supplies are available in the local pharmacy. People die in Haiti all the time over things that are simple to treat, like ear infections or asthma, because of lack of supplies to treat, so if you have a complicated medical emergency, your options for care are non-existent.

Haiti is also teetering on the edge of famine, particularly in the south which is cut off from the rest of the country for the most part. Food used to arrive in ports in Port-au-Prince and be shipped out into the rest of the country by truck, but those ports were seized by gangs and trucks no longer roll. Some food arrives by boat in local ports, but it is limited, unpredictable, and expensive. The cutting of USAID funding by the US government stopped the food programs that were helping particularly vulnerable communities. The average Haitian has maybe one meal a day, if that.

So...if I drop myself into that setting and am coming with people to do ceremonies, I am creating a really complex situation that is hard to navigate. Places where outsiders (which include non-Haitians of whatever background and Haitians in the diaspora...locals easily can clock who is in Haiti day-to-day) gather are targeted by gangs at times due to the relative presumption of wealth and the risks of violence and kidnapping are not small. That may require folks to be paid off or extra security to be provided, which pulls people from their regular activities.

Additionally, if I am showing up for ceremonies and sweeping into the local markets to buy a hundred pounds of rice to feed the lakou and lwa, buying animals in large quantities, and otherwise putting a lot of money out there, that removes all that food from being available for locals when it is unclear when the next shipment will be available. I am also contributing to inflation that local communities cannot absorb. If the two cups of rice necessary to feed someone's family for two days was already hard to pay at $5/cup, scarcity making that price now $15/cup means people aren't going to eat and the money I am pouring out stops helping as soon as it is spent. As soon as I am gone, people are potentially in a more difficult situation than before I got there and that short-term influx of cash has hurt instead of helped.

So, if I am liberation-minded, I have to put that into action. Going down there outside of specific tourist areas, which are still around in the north, is going to be a drain on local communities that are already struggling and I have to weigh out if what I want is more important than their day-to-day. You can definitely be very comfy in Haiti if you are going with cash in hand, but the ramifications outside of your experience can be significant.

With all of those things in mind, my broad thoughts on folks going to Haiti right now--particularly those who have never been before--is that you are taking your life--and the lives of others--in your hands. It's not a good time to visit. If someone is going for spiritual reasons, I remain unconvinced that there is any spiritual issue so significant that it requires going to Haiti and increasing the load on local communities right now. Ceremonies that need to take place in Haiti can be delayed; there is no spiritually enriching reason to go do those while the country is essentially living under civil war and if you are being told the lwa cannot negotiate on that, you need better folks to negotiate on your behalf.

I say all these things as someone who has gone down there in the middle of incredible instability. I went down when there were flaming barricades in the streets and huge protests, I was on the first plane down to Haiti a week after the president was assassinated, and I went down two summers ago and spent ten days there while my husband finished up his immigration process so I could bring him back to the US with me. My husband went down last summer in the middle of all of this, and it was incredibly risky and wildly expensive just to do basic things like get from the airport to where he was staying. Neither of us would be willing to go down now, even when we have work we really could stand to do down there. It's just not worth the personal risk or the risk to people we care about.

I hope this helps, even though it's not really a happy answer.

[rockofeye]

Alex, can you talk about pricing for readings and spiritual work? I've had a reading with you (which was great!) and I found your price very reasonable but I see other people charging two or three times what you do and I was wondering if there was a reason for the big differences.

Hi there,

I'm glad you enjoyed your reading.

I can really only talk about my pricing for readings and work, honestly. I think supposition on my part about the prices of others is only going to be needlessly bitchy, so we go forward with positivity!

My readings/leson kat are $60USD, which is the absolute minimum I can charge for any work. I really should be charging just a little bit more but I am reluctant to raise my price for a card reading. I tell folks that readings usually are about an hour, but I don't clock watch strictly and we read to answer your questions/inquiries. I view readings as your time, so I have no agenda beyond facilitating the conversation between you and the lwa, through the cards.

I was originally taught that a card reading should be as accessible as possible because people need to hear the voice of the lwa and need the hope they can give, even if there is nothing else they (the person getting the reading) can do, and because basically all other spiritual work is going to comparatively be expensive.

I price spiritual work considering materials needed, time and labor, and what the lwa direct me to do. They have taken me to task for not charging enough in the past, so I consult them. Materials can be easy or difficult to source, depending on the work, and there is some work that is best done in Haiti, which means paying our community members to do the work on the individual's behalf for us. The lwa also get their cut, and I pay myself a little as well.

I strongly believe that my job as a priest is as a facilitator to assist you in liberating yourself from whatever is holding you out of balance, not liberating you from your wallet, and I hold that at the front. Money is necessary because neither I nor the lwa can work for free, but I am clear that money is not the driving factor for me doing spiritual work.

Instead, liberation is the driving factor: liberation for you, liberation for me, and liberation of the world at large. Part of liberatory spiritual work is making sure that it is accessible, so that is what I do my best to do, knowing that saving up the coin for a reading can take time for a lot of folks. So, the price remains as low as I can make it without disrespecting myself.

There's also tradition in there, too; card readings in Haiti are often called senkant-set/fifty-seven readings, because they traditionally have cost $57 local dollars.

So, that's how I do things and how I conceive of them. I hope that's helpful.

[rockofeye]

hi houngan alex, i see some people saying that there are lwas that are associated with chakras and i never knew that eastern spirituality was a part of Haitan Vodou can you talk more about that?

Hi there,

There isn't really anything to talk about because it's not true, by and large. There are things people might do personally in their own personal practice, but things like chakras and Reiki etc are separate entities that deserve to be taken in their cultural contexts, just like Vodou.

I was curious about this before and inquired with some granmoun/elders, and, hand to God, one of their reactions was 'what the fuck is a chakra', only in Kreyòl. Meditation is a thing that many Vodouizan engage in, and sometimes it's called meditasyon or konsantre/konsantrasyon/concentration or fe priye/praying, but meditation is a pretty universal concept among world religions.

There is an indigenous or cultural system of what we would call energy work or energy healing in Haiti that is not strictly a Vodou thing, but is sometimes done by houngans/manbos/servitors who have been taught it. I know it as rale/pulling, which refers to some of the physical manipulation done, but I am sure there are other names.

The folks who do that kind of work have an expert knowledge of the spiritual-body systems in Haitian culture (and Haitian Vodou by default) and you would go see them if you were feeling unwell (physically or otherwise) or got injured or were not responding to Western medicine interventions. They can diagnose what the cause of the issue is and do hands-on work to address the issue. It could include physical manipulation or physical work that communicates energy healing or the application of leaves, herbal preparations, alcohol, or perfumes to affected areas or pwen on the body, which don't align with traditional chakras. The lwa themselves do this work when they come down at ceremonies as well.

The reason chakras and related practices got brought up instead of the traditional practices is two-fold:

There is a lack of knowledge of the traditional rale practices. It's not really common outside of Haiti, though as the diaspora continues there are certainly practioners outside of Haiti, and it can be hard to get the appropriate materials; a lot of the leaves used don't grow widely and many practioners have specific ways they must be harvested to be the most effective so it's more than going to the market and buying parsley.

It's also not an easy sell for folks who are not vodouizan or who are just starting their exploration of Vodou. It's much easier to get people to plug into the idea that Ezili Freda is associated with the heart chakra and that Danbala is associated with the crown chakra than it is to explain how the different sides of the body communicate different things and what cold and hot in the body can lead to and which paste of bitter leaves can treat maladies that arise there. So, if you're looking to make some cash and create a base of folks you can build off of, you might just go with chakras.

It's important to recognize that cultural religious practices, which Haitian Vodou is, are complete practices on their own, so they contain everything necessary to accomplish anything adherents need. So, it's just a matter of digging if someone wants to learn traditional healing practices! I will say, though, if there was anything that gets twisted around more than Haitian Vodou in common culture, it is chakras and Reiki. Those are from culturally specific practices too!

I hope this helps!

[rockofeye]

Can you talk a little about Destiny swapping or stealing someone’s head using Wanga or sorcery?

Hi,

This is not a thing in Haitian Vodou. A lot gets said on the internet about this kind of stuff but it's largely built on a lot of supposition that really doesn't hold water.

There is no prewritten destiny for any of us, so there is nothing to be stolen. Even the lwa cannot predict our futures entirely; they see bigger and longer than we do but they are not God. They can only really offer us input on what they see as best for us and what we should stay away from.

No one can steal your head from you. What can happen is that if you do not take care of your lwa or you purposefully act against what they have told you to do or otherwise have mortally offended them over and over and over again despite them warning you, they can leave you. They can simply pull away and leave you to your own devices and take all their blessings and protections and benefits with them. If you've been really fucking up, you might not even notice it.

In asson lineages, we say what Ginen has put in place no person can break, and that comes with an asterisk for the above reason...but that's true. For folks who work outside of the asson tradition, things are heavily dependent on their bitasyon and demanmbwe, and if what Ginen makes cannot be broken then the bitasyon and demanmbwe are a hyped up version of that. No one but you/your family can truly break that stuff.

Hope this helps!

[rockofeye]

Is there a difference between a paket cho and a paket Congo?

Hi,

I think what you are asking about is a pwen cho and a paket Kongo, and they are different. Pwen translates to point, which broadly describes a concentration of power. It can be a little confusing because 'pwen cho' is almost a diminutive name for something that exceeds what we might think of as a concentrated point of power.

A pwen cho is a spirit that is tied and compelled to work in a particular way. These are often spirits that are purchased from a houngan or manbo who does that kind of work, or a bokò, which is why they are often called pwen achte/bought point.

These are arranged relationships that come with contracts, expectations, and consequences for not meeting the agreed upon expectations. In general, these are not happy spirits and there is force involved in these relationships with the understanding that if the bonds/agreements that hold them break, people get hurt or worse.

A paket Kongo is also a pwen, but it is a sacred object that holds a concentrated point of the power/energy of the spirit it is made for, instead of being a whole spirit. They are usually quite beautiful and are made most often with satin, ribbon, feathers, and other materials. They are objects that anyone can have; you do not need to be an initiate to have one. Tied wanga/spiritual work can have a similar appearance to a paket Kongo.

A pwen cho is often housed in an object; a coffin, a govi, a bottle, or a doll is common. I supposed someone could put a pwen achte in the form of a paket Kongo but that would be kind of difficult for a variety of reasons.

I hope this helps--let me know if I can offer more info.

[rockofeye]

hey Alex!! I hope you’re well. Ive been following you for a while and I just wanna say rq I really commend and aknowledge you for the time and effort you put into this tradition.

I’m going to get a Leson Kat from a Manbo that communicated to me openly that she is a “Manbo Makout” she said she “only works with her ancestors and spirits, and those of her clients, rather than the entire communities spirits”

I just wanna be more understanding of what im walking into. Could you please break it down? Thank you Alex! Blessings alwayz.

Thank you!

I realize it might be too late to get you the info that you needed, but if so maybe this can help someone else.

It's pretty much what she said it is; a manbo or houngan makout works from family tradition only, which is often limited to what that particular lakou may do. The spirits that speak in the leson will be spirits specific to that lakou that the family serves.

So, that means if you have a question or need from a spirit outside of what she already works with, you could be SOL or she might have a way to inquire. That usually differs from a houngan or manbo from an asson lineage, where asogwe priests can consult any spirit for you without too much legwork.

The only thing I might side eye is if she is not Haitian. A houngan or manbo makout can really be explained as an ancestral-specific priest that works within their lineage, but what it isn't is someone who is completely independent without community or ancestral roots. I have seen some folks online pick up the title as a way of trying to work lwa without connection to community or culture, and that's not how it works, really. Houngans and manbos makout have their own regleman and there is often a family-based process of initiation and mentorship. It's not a label for a spiritual worker who hasn't gone into the djevo in an asson lineage.

I hope your reading was good!

[rockofeye]

is ot common or rare for Lwa to get attached to people who serve them?

Hi,

I'm not sure what you mean by attached.

If you mean it in a 'they enjoy their people and want to be with them', then yes, they definitely get attached to their people. It's not uncommon for folks to make layers of promises or oaths to reinforce those bonds and make them unbreakable. In my experience, the lwa genuinely love and care for their children and enjoy them

If you mean in the kind of the Western occult idea of a spirit being attached to a person; no, it's not like that. That kind of spiritual attachment wouldn't be seen as very healthy or functional, and a lot of work is done to rid people of those kind of attachments because they can suck the life out of you.

Let me know if I missed the mark here or can provide more info.

[rockofeye]

Is it possible to be a Vodouyizan and be republican or conservative?

Hi there,

Given how much work Republicans and conservatives have put into systematically destabilizing Haitian communities in the United States, demonizing and scapegoating Haiti for a whole laundry list of imagined wrongs, and deporting every Haitian they can get their hands on, no, I do not think it is possible to both espouse the ideals of the Republican party or current conservative thought and practice Haitian Vodou. Unless you mean the John Brown type of Republican, of course.

I'm not totally sure why someone who is a current Republican or aligned with conservative beliefs would want to be a Vodouizan. After all, you'd be aligning with folks considered lesser than and dirty and disease ridden who eating the dogs and eating the cats from a shithole country, right? I would also think it would pretty arrogant and entitled to hold those beliefs and labels and expect to be welcomed.

After all, Haitian Vodou is a constant revolution seeking to unseat state and colonial powers both in the world and in ourselves, which still exist and still affect Haiti. Haitian Vodou communicates that the oppressed have a right to violence as a response to oppression, because our foundation is built on the expulsion of White imperialists and colonialists by extremely violent means. Koupe tèt, boule kay/cut the head, burn the house isn't an empty slogan...that is what our spiritual ancestors did and accomplished.

I think if someone who identifies themselves as a Republican or conservative is interested in Haitian Vodou, that is an invitation to explore how they are colonized by White supremacy, colonial beliefs, and racist foundations of state, and decide what to do about that. People change, of course, and the lwa require that; we do not get to stay the same if we are to serve them fully. I would invite someone aligned with Republicans and conservatives to explore what they think they would get from the lwa who stand in direct opposition to those beliefs.

I hope this was a good faith question, because this was a good faith answer.

[rockofeye]

Can lwa mount “non-initiates” or outsiders at a fete or like in general?

Absolutely. The majority of vodouizan in Haiti are not initiated in the way we conceive of initiation in the asson lineage; the asson lineage is only one expression out of many of how people serve the lwa. The lwa will show up in their children in a variety of settings; ceremonies, consultations, treatments, in churches, hospitals, or schools,walking down the street, etc. They come in adults and children and basically any type of person. For someone who is Haitian and completely unaffiliated with Vodou, a possession can indicate the lwa reclaiming the person and the bloodline and indicating there are issues to address.

For folks who are not Haitian and have no affiliation with Vodou and are maybe just going to a ceremony to see what it is like, it is possible because it is the choice of the lwa but exceptionally unlikely. If someone who is not Haitian and had never been to a ceremony before got mounted, I would take that as a message that there was a severe and significant issue that needed to be attended to and would suggest that person connect with a reputable priest pretty quickly to determine what is going on.

The lwa come to fetes to work, to bring messages, and be celebrated, so someone who is unaffiliated overall is unlikely to be the hammer or wrench that they choose to do their work, as it were. Instead, it's much more likely that the lwa want to see you and shake your hand!

Hope this makes sense!

[rockofeye]

I had a dream that Baron Samedi let me use his truckand it was damaged. He came back and told me it was ok and he was leaving work right now and he fixed it. The dream is very long and detailed I just wanted to know if you can help me determine what it means if I can send it to you please? Thank you

Hi,

Dream interpretation is not a free service and can be subjective based on what priest you are speaking to. I usually suggest people get a reading to determine if they are hearing from the lwa and what they might actually want to say. Happy to do that if you are interested.

[rockofeye]

Do you get mounted by the lwa? And if yes, what has your experience been like being a chwal?

Hi there,

I do, and it's kind of a weird thing because it's essentially your selfhood and what makes you you being put to sleep or sent away for the time of the possession. Most people do not have any consciousness during possession (a lot of granmoun will argue that any consciousness during possession means it is not a full possession) and the process to get there is pretty uncomfortable. After all, there is not commonly known and understood process of sending out your soul (in some ways) so something else can come into your body.

There are moments when you are still conscious and you start to lose control of your body and what it does, and there can be moments during the process of the spirit seating full that you are waking up (so to speak) and then going back to sleep, and maybe waking up again. We sometimes call the the kriz lwa/lwa crisis, which describes those moments of being thrown around or other involuntary stuff. It's really important for a lot of community-oriented reasons, but it's weird to be a part of because it's the spirit trying to throw you in the trunk, so to speak, so it can fully take the wheel and steer the car. The process, like the lwa, ranges from milder to pretty wild; sometimes you get thrown into people or end up on the floor or clothes get removed or whatever.

One of my first experiences involved that and I would open my eyes (not physically) and find myself in a different part of the room than I had been or hear myself screaming, which I found terribly embarrassing because I didn't fully understand what was happening....and then I woke up on the floor feeling sticky and wet from rum being spit on my body. It's weird, and you come back not knowing what happened or what was said or what they did in your body until someone fills you in.

That's kind of it in a nutshell. It's not very fun or glamorous, and can be complicated particularly if/when the lwa do or say things while driving the car that are upsetting for people or controversial. It's just part of the gig, so to speak.

I hope this helps!

[rockofeye]

What would you tell people who remain in Sosyete Nago? Any words of wisdom?

Whew, that's a question.

I would tell my siblings first that accountability and transparency is not only your right as a member of the lakou, but that it is your responsibility as an houngan or manbo to require from your lineage head and sosyete elders. The pedastalizing of Manbo Maude leads people to believe they cannot ask questions and expect timely and transparent answers and action, and that is incorrect. When I left and began to speak with granmoun who have held tradition for longer than some of us have been alive, something one of them said struck me deeply.

They affirmed that, yes, your initiatory parent is always your parent but your elevation to asogwe places you as a spiritual equal, indicates that you are grown in the religion, and you should be respected as such. This means you have the right and the expectation as part of your title to sit down with your parent and look them in the eye and speak to them as that equal and address concerns. Sosyete Nago holds a dynamic of 'always the apprentice, never the master' and leans heavily on a parent-child dynamic that does not support the autonomy of the priests of the house. This is not the traditional format, and you have the right to be treated as spiritually equal. If you are not, there are some hard questions that need to be asked.

Sosyete Nago overdoes the idea of unquestioning respect, which really translates to unquestioning obedience in that questions do not get asked and answers cannot be required. This is incorrect and damaging, and has been used to control the lakou. In fact, it is a disservice to your oaths and your title not to hold leadership accountable. You are each an asogwe, for better or for worse, and you each need to decide how you stand with that. It is not solely Manbo Maude who gets an equal say in what happens in the lakou. Each member should be listened to with equal attention and standing, and decisions made according to group will versus 'you can either come into alignment or we can separate'. And, as each person has equal voice and standing so does each person have equal responsibility for what the sosyete does, if it is a lakou and not a business.

It is beneficial to go to fetes and ceremonies that are not part of Sosyete Nago. This is not encouraged, but part of the traditional mechanism of learning is to go out in the world and see what people do and absorb it, reflect on it, and decide what it means for you. Only seeing one option leads to a very narrow understanding of sèvis lwa. Sosyete Nago often passively allows people to believe that if you go elsewhere, you will not be welcomed, and this is not true.

Certainly each lakou has their own traditions, but broad community holds agreements with each other as part of tradition. There are things expected of lakou that hold and pass the asson, and removal of that or statements that those things aren't necessary should be looked at with critical discernment. Complete divorce and isolation from community is a symptom of dis-ease, not a mark of forging ahead because everybody else is just out for money or jealous. Healthy lakous are interdependent and form a network of care, community, and mutual liberation. Anything that stands alone stands alone for a reason.

Similarly, you are all asogwe and should be able to do all the spiritual work you could need for yourself and your clients. If you can't, you should be asking why demanding answers; you paid for the initiation so why don't you have what the initiation dictates you should? You should not need people to do it for you, nor should there be any expectation of excessive payment. Traditionally, houngans and manbos are not paid for the work they do to help their children because they are children of the lakou not clients or strangers. Maybe supplies are bought, but those supplies--including animals--should not be excessively pricey. A pig is not $800 in Haiti, and no spirit should be requiring things like providing all the bottles of alcohol for a fet or giving a bull every years to be sacrificed for the house, instead of for you (all real things I have heard from siblings). These things are not logical or grounded in tradition. You are a child of the lakou, not a shareholder.

Y'all need to work hard to learn Kreyòl and connect with Haitian news sources, cultural outlets, and spaces where houngans and manbos discuss current events, how Vodou is practiced in their area, and how they each do things. Facebook Lives and TikTok Lives happen regularly where people are discussing things and sharing knowledge, but you need Kreyòl to be able to listen in. The understanding of Vodou in English and outside of Haiti is exceptionally limited; the majority of community-building is in Kreyòl and it is much, MUCH more diverse than what you see in the US. Also, you guys deserve to know what is said around you and about you.

Consider that the viewpoints you are presented with are not encompassing of the possibility of other views, whether it is discussing what is correct in the religion or not or other people or how people tell the truth. Be discerning. There is no one correct regleman or one correct way to do things.

Look for facts and substance, not feelings and appearances. People can be upset, but being upset is not a reason to not be held accountable. Things can be beautiful, but beauty does not replace substance and can't mitigate holes and omissions. Discomfort is not harm and growth springs from going to uncomfortable places and excavating our feelings. Questions are not rude or disrespectful and answers should be direct. Be aware of how emotions are leveraged and use discernment; it is easy to be on a pink cloud post kanzo, but things like 'I can't do this without you', 'you are the ones who want to work/learn for real', 'everybody turned against me', and oversharing personal details are ways people get drawn in close. They are not indicative of real relationship and connection.

Just because your feet are on one road does not mean there isn't another road available. The lwa do not only make one way and, as asogwe, you have the right to make a place to put your feet, should you desire to. There are no certain outcomes; one choice does not forever commit to something that can never change. Certainly you cannot undo or overwrite past choices, but the roads ahead are innumerable and Ginen follows you wherever your feet carry you.

Learning discernment and learning how your lwa speak to you is the most important skill and practice you will develop. It is more important than magic, it is more important than possession, it is more important than healing, it is more important than anything someone can teach you. Sitting at your table in silence and prayer is where this work happens, and it is lonely work because it is just you, surrounded by the infinite amount of lwa who stand with. You don't need to go to a fete to talk to the lwa--you are an asogweman, you can (and SHOULD) do it on your own! This is what saves you and preserves you and develops you with your lwa, not going to fetes or speaking to lwa in possession. You have the right and title to have everything you need with you.

Finally, I hope all of you are blessed. I hope the lwa give you each ten times what they have given me, and I pray for your success individually and as a community. May Ogou bless you and hold you up.