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skylar50 · 3 years ago

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I DID MATH TO TRY TO GUESS HOW OLD ARE THE MAIN 6 AND HOW THE TIMELINE WORKS

Soooo, I already made a post explaining my toughts about Julian's and Lucio's age, and I said I wanted to make another post explaining my guesses for the rest of the cast, so here I am. (WARNING: THERE ARE SOME MINOR SPOILERS!! And this is going to be looong, so if you want to jump to the conclusions go ahead).

I recommend reading at least a part of the other post, since it has important info that I won't be explaining here, but to sum up what I think it's the most important fact: Many people believe that Lucio loosing his arm and Asra's parents being imprisioned happened 20 years ago, but I think the game gives us enough hints to know that that “roughly 20 years ago” actually means 17 or 18 years ago. So, my guesses are made having that in mind.

Please, have in mind that, since there are no canon ages, there is no way to know who is right or who is wrong, all we can do is try to guess, but I think we can all agree that the game has some inconsistencies with the timeline and that, at the end of the day, everyone can have their own headcanons, so it's okay if we disagree. And, also, english is not my first language, so I'm sorry if I wrote anything wrong!!

I'm going to start from the youngest to oldest (Asra-Portia-Muriel-Julian-Lucio-Nadia) and mark in blue the facts that are canon:

Asra

• We know he became an orphan when we has a kid. The game says it was roughly 20 years ago, I already explained on my other post why I think it's practically canon that the exact date is 17/18 years ago, so Im not going to repeat myself.

• He met Muriel 17 years ago.

• He met the apprentice 9 years ago.

• He revived them 3 years ago

• We know he had a thing with Julian before the whole revival thing. If the apprentice died 3 years ago and they were brought back from dead less than a year after, then that had to happen 3 years ago too.

• We do not know exactly how old was he when he met Muriel, but my guess is that he had to be between 6-10, maybe 11, but I would not put him as more than that because I honestly think he looks too young and too short for a 12 year old kid. It's true malnutrition could have been a problem on his growth, but he ended up being of average height and Muriel, who was also homeless, ended up being over 2 meters tall so... I do not think it really stoped them?

• This is gonna sound so dumb but I tried to calculate how tall he was when he was a kid lol (yes, I was very frustrated, yes, I needed help). I used this image they posted as a reference to see how tall they were besides each other, and my guess is that he's around 1'20 meters, which is a normal height for a kid that young, maybe a bit short but not too much (btw, I know Lucio's height is 1'77, but I added 8 cm more because he wears heels).

So, having all that in mind, I'd say Asra is between 24-28 years old. I personally can't see him as older than 28 because as I said I think he was too young on his tale, but it all depends on how you see it, of course.

According to my guess, that would mean he was 6-11 when he lost his parents (which I think it makes sense, since he as an adult is able to remember that Lucio imprisioned them, and it's pretty normal to be able to remember things from that age) 15-19 when he met the apprentice (so, it was a young love, maybe his first one, and that would explain why he was so attached), 21-25 when he had a thing with Julian (to make sure he was an adult) and that same age when the whole revival thing happened (and I personally think it makes sense that he was so young when he made shuch a desesperate decision).

Portia

•We know there is a big age gap between her and Julian:

-She can't remember the shipwreck, Julian does

-She was still a kid when Julian left to become a doctor

-She seems to remember him, but vaguely

•She started working on the palace one year ago

•Since she can't remember loosing her parents, I think it's safe to assume she was still a baby

•I honestly do not remember much from Portia's route, but if I recall correctly, there's this paid option that lets you help her remember a lost memory. I personally see her very very young, and it has to be a memory from after she lost her parents and before Julian left to become a doctor, so I'd say she was 3-5.I remember it was mentioned that in the memory Julian had a big growth spurt, so, since I like to think there is an 7-9 year gape between them, that would put him at 10-14.

I think it's an age range that makes sense, it is possible to remember things from when you were 3-5 (I personally do remember some things, mostly things that had an impact on me), and Portia had visual help to be able to remember it, so it would make sense that she had this memory hidden on her mind and then she was able to remember it correctly with help.

So, having all this in mind, I would say Portia is between 25-30 years old. Maybe you could give her an extra year, but I would not make her younger than 24 because then, if we follow my guesses, she would be younger than Asra (and it's canon that she's older) and I also think the age gap between her and Julian would be too big, and if it was, then maybe she could not remember him before he left. She had to be a kid, but not so young to not be able to remember how they played.

This would mean she was 24-28 when she started working on the palace.

Muriel

(Warning: This is goning to get long.)

I've seen some confusion about Muriel's age, mostly because it seems there are some inconsistencies about his past. I will try to make it make sense, but yeah, have that in mind please.

This man has been my hyperfixation for 2 whole years and at this point I am basically his own personal wikipedia, so I hope I do not leave anything behind, and Im sorry in advance for how long this is gonna be:

•We know he had to leave his home when he was still a kid.

•In his tale, he seems to vaguely remember how he arrived to vesuvia (so, not younger than 3 when he left?)

•He met Asra 17 years ago

•We do not know the exact age gap between him an Asra, but tbh I do not think at all than he's more than 3 years older, because in his tale he says that asra only seems “a couple years younger”, and they both seem to be on very close stages of their lifes even as kids. Muriel's just a big boy.

•We do not know how much time he worked as Lucio's gladiator, but he had to break free at least 3 years ago (since 3 years ago was when Lucio “died”).

•This is all me making theories and trying to make a guess with every tiny detail of info I remember, so take it with a grain of salt because I could be completly wrong, but I personally think that what makes more sense is that he left the Kokhuri when he was 3-7 years old. The reasons:

-I know it's pretty normal to not be able to remember much from when you were that young, and the trauma could also have made an impact on his memory, but I think he had to be very very young when he left because he's not even sure if he's from the south (in the scene where they get a room on the inn, the MC asks him how he can't be sure and he says it happened a long time ago). He does not seem to remembe his parents, his language (I am assuming the kokhuri have a different language than vesuvians) and in general he does not seem to remember his home practically at all. I personally think that if he was older than 8 it would be more strange, but maybe it's just me.

-In his tale he already says that he's starting to forget his parents, and he's still a young kid. I think that can be a hint to let us know he was really really young when he left, I think it would be weird otherwise

-I am not sure about this because maybe it could be understood in other way, but he seems to remember Lucio's voice from his nightmares? And I guess that means Lucio had to be there when the Scourage of the South attacked the Kokhuri. That, or maybe his voice appears on his nightmares just because, or he recognizes that his way of speaking is similar to other people from the South or idk. But I think it has to mean that Muriel had to be at least 3 to be able to remember Lucio's voice(even if it's vaguely and had to hear it again) or the way the people from the Scourage talked. If it's the first case, it also means that Lucio had to be there, so it had to happen before he was 18 (remember that in Lucio's tale he just became 18 and that's when he left his home). That's why I think their age gap has to be big but can't be bigger than 14, because 3+14= 17. Ok this is starting to sound dumb, right? But in my mind it makes sense, I swear

-I also think he could not be younger than 3 because he had to at least be able to walk, talk and well, try to survive on his own. I know 3 is still super young, but, I mean, if I had a vision where all my family died I would also send my 3 year old kid to live on his own lol, better having a little chance than dying my boy! And we see on his tale that the orphans work together to get food so maybe some older orphans helped him and the other younger kids until he grow ? Look, listen, some weeks ago I discovered there is a japanese show in which they film 2 year old kids going to the store and shopping on their own so it's possible! I am just trying to give the lowest age possible so we know where to start from :') and to try to make it make sense, because in his route it sometimes seems like he was practically a toddler (or directly one) when he left.

To sum up, I think he had to be around 3-7 years oldwhen he left his home so everything makes sense. It would make sense that he could remember some little things, but very vaguely and had to fill the blanks with his own guesses, it would also make sense if Lucio was there when the Scourage attacked the Kokhuris and that he recognizes his voice, it would make sense that he has trouble remembering even the most crucial things (his parents, his language...) and it would be plausible that he could survive being homeless if he at leasts knew how to walk and communicatte on his own.

•I personally can't see him older than 14 on his tale. I find it already a bit hard to believe he could be 14, because I personally think he still looks prepubescent, and tbh I think that Muriel would have been already as tall or taller than Lucio if he was older. I know malnutrition is a thing, but everyone seems impressed with his height, even Lucio, so idk his genes are just that strong I guess. Maybe his parents were over 2,15 and he's the short one of the family lol. I also think it would be a streatch if the game told us that this kid is huge and then the kid in question was 15 years old and around 1.50 meters. I'm gonna use the same images as before:

He seems to be slouching a bit, so maybe we could add 3-8 cm more. But my guess is that he was 10-12 on his tale, give or take a few years if you want, at the end of the day, it's all about you own perception.

•I think it's safe to assume that, if Lucio became count 17 or 18 years ago, that means Muriel had to leave his home approximately 20 years ago, probably a bit more, depends if you see him younger or older.

So, having all this in mind (finally!!!), I would say that Muriel is around 26-31 years old.

That would mean he was very young when he arrived to Vesuvia (and it would make sense that it happened 20 years ago or more), he met Asra when he was 9-14, he left the coliseum minimum when he was 23-28, and that his age gap with Lucio and Asra makes sense. If he was younger I think it would be more difficult to make the age gaps and his past as a gladiator plausible, and as I said before I honestly can't see him older than 14 on his tale. But again, this is all a headcanon.

Julian

I already explained Julian's age on my other post, so I won't repeat it, but my guess is taht he has to be between 33-40 (or maybe one or two years older, as long as his age gap with Portia makes sense and he's still younger than Lucio)

Lucio

I explained Lucio too. My guess is he's between 37-44. I would not put him any younger or older because then the age gaps would not make sense and neither his past.

Nadia

Im going to be short with Nadia because there are not many pieces of info and since she's the oldest one there is more freedom, because any kind of age gap would make sense.

•We know she arrived to Vesuvia 9 years ago

•She was married to Lucio for 6 years. Since Lucio has been “dead” for 3 years, that means they married 9 years ago

•She's the youngest of all her siblings. We do not know the age gap between them, but I'd say they are pretty close in age, since their parents are still alive and do not look too old, and Nadia has to be older than 37 for this to make sense. I mention this because maybe it would be plausible for Nadia to be 50, but, I mean, there has to be a limit haha.

Having all this in mind, I would say that Nadia is between 37-45~years old, but it could be a bit more. This would mean she arrived to Vesuvia and married Lucio at 28-36, she was 34-42 when Lucio “died”, and her siblings would be on their 30s, 40s or maybe 50s, which I think makes sense.

So, my conclusion is:

Asra: 24-28

Portia: 25-30

Muriel: 26-31

Julian: 33-40~

Lucio: 37-44~

Nadia: 37-45~

And if you are interested on knowing how I hc them:

Asra: 26

Portia: 27

Muriel: 28

Julian: 36

Lucio: 39

Nadia: 39

That's it!!

I'm not sure if anyone would want to read all this lol but I hope it was a bit useful or interesting!

Please do not judge me for how much time I put into shuch a silly thing lol, I know I have to get a hobby :'D

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skylar50 · 3 years ago

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About Julian's and Lucio's ages (+ quick thoughts about the ages of the rest of the main 6)

Sooooo, I’ve seen that people are starting to discuss the ages of the main cast again because of the whole “Timothée Chalamet casted as Julian” thing, and I wanted to give my thoughts because I see that people are guessing their ages working on the assumption that Lucio’s arm was amputated 20 years ago. And I understand where that guess comes from, but I think it’s wrong, and that it actually happened 17 or 18 years ago. So I wanted to post my guesses now that all the routes have been finished for a while.

First of all, this is going to be a looooong post, so if you want you can skip to the "to sum up" part and to their ages. But if you do not want to leave any info behind, I do recommend reading everything. I also want to say that I am trusting my memory maybe a bit too much, so I could be wrong, I've also checked the wiki and other pages to make sure, but even the wiki is made by the fandom, after all, so it's completely possible that there could be mistakes. And also, I am a lesbian, which means I can't do math, so please correct me if anything is wrong.

Okay, let's start.

*insert the ace attorney ost* I do have a strong defense of why I think the amputation happened 17 years ago instead of 20, and the game itself is my witness! (but take all this with a grain of salt because I may not be totally right lol)

I'm going to separate all my points:

•It's canon that Muriel and Asra met 17 years ago. This is confirmed early in Muriel's route. This info is very important because, in the tale in which they meet as kids, the game shows us a Lucio that has just been proclaimed count. He mentions he's the new Count of Vesuvia, and that's why he's still introducing himself. If it was true he had been count for 3 years already, it would be very very weird if he was still considered a "new" count and people still did not know him. Sure, Twitter does not exist on Vesuvia, but I am sure that Lucio being Lucio made a whole scandal when he became Count so everyone could know. Or, at least, people would have noticed the abscence of Count Spada and the changes Lucio made to the city after 3 whole years. So, I think it's pretty safe to assume that he became count the same year Muriel and Asra meet or max a year prior.

•I am not sure in which book it's mentioned, but I remember that in Portia's route is clarified that Lucio lost his arm just after leaving his mercenary work and just before becoming count. Which means it would not make any sense if one thing happened 3 years after, it had to happen the same year or, if we want to give it a bit more time, one year before maybe.

•It is canon that Lucio commissioned Asra's parents as a count, not as a random mercenary. Since in Muriel's and Asra's tale he already has his golden arm and in Portia route it's said that he lost his arm just before becoming count, I think it's safe to assume it was one of his first (or his first) request as a count and that it had to happen the same year his arm was cut or one year after.

•This is me assuming things, but if he became count 3 years after loosing his arm, it means he would have had to work as a mercenary for 3 years. I am sure it's possible, but I think it's unlikely for someone who is used to work with both arms to get used so quickly to do shuch a dangerous job with just one arm. My guess is that after his arm was cut, he obviously had to rest to recover and he used that time to gain Spada's trust, and that he left his mercenary work for good until he got his new arm.

•If I remember correctly, the game does not say that Asra's parent were imprisioned for 20 whole years, it says thay they were imprisioned for roughly 20 years. A dumb correction, I know, but I think it'is important, because saying that something happened exactly 20 years ago does not leave place for doubt, but saying it happened more or less 20 years ago does. And this is a dumb point, but I think it was Asra who said in his route that his parents were imprisioned for roughly 20 years, and Asra is not good at having track of time (he mentioned in Muriel's route that they met 15 years ago, and Muriel corrected him).

To sum up: with all this info, I think it's safe to assume that's it's practically canon that Lucio became count 17/18 years ago, not 20. And we know that he lost his arm just before becoming count, so his arm being amputated by Julian and him becoming Count are things that should have happened the same year or maybe 1 year apart max.

I know there can be some incosistencies, like, if he lost his arm while he was working for Spada and he became count just afer, that means he had to gain Spada's trust pretty quickly. But, knowing Lucio, I think that more than gaining his trust, he manipulated ot convinced him. We know that Lucio had already made a deal when he was 18 and he was thirsty for power, I am sure he would not restrain himself from making another deal or other questionable things in order to gain power. It's already pretty random that Spada made his successor a random dude who did not know anything about Vesuvia, that's why I think Lucio did not play clean to become Count.

I've also read some people saying that it's mentioned somewhere that Asra had spent 3 years as an orphan already before meeting Muriel. I honestly do not remember this, but it could be true, of course. If that's the case, I think maybe the problem is that the devs changed their minds later? because if it was true, then everything else would not make any sense.

So, having all that in mind, this is my guess about Julian's age:

We know that Julian was the one that cut Lucio's arm, so he had to have at least a bit of knowledge and practice. If it's true that it happened 17 or 18 years ago, how old was he, then?

We know Julian left to become a doctor when Portia was still a kid. We don't know how old was he exactly, but, have in mind that The Arcana is set in a fantasy Italian Renaissence (confirmed by the devs), so, XIV-XVI centuries, medieval/modern time. At that time it would not be unbeliavable at all for a kid to leave to work or train, shit was rough, you were put to work once your umbilical cord was cut. So I do not think it's crazy to hc that Julian left when we was still pretty young.

We do not know if he was still under Nazali's tuition when he cut Lucio's arm, but to give him the minimum age possible (just so people know where to start, in case they want) let's say he was still a teen and training when it happened and that Nazali could not take care of Lucio for some reason (maybe they were bussy with other patients). If we assume he was around 14 or 15 when he left and that he had to practice some time to be able to amputate an arm, I think the low we can go is 16.

So: 16(the age he was when he amputated Lucio's arm) + 17/18 (the years since it happened) = 33 or 34 minimum.

I personally like to see him around 36 because I think it's more realistic (even though that this game is totally unrealistic lol) that he amputated Lucio's arm when he was 18 or 19. But since we do not know exactly when that happened, it could be possible for him to be 40 too, I think.

And now, Lucio's age:

Now we know that he became count 17 or 18 years ago and that it was around that time that his arm was cut. We also know that he left his people when he was 18 and that he spent some time working as a mercenary, but how much time? We do not know.

I like to think that he had to spent at least a couple of years until he arrived to Vesuvia and Spada died. Let's say that, at the very least, 2 years had to pass, so: 18 (the age when he left) + 2(the time he spent working as a mercenary) + 17/18 (the amount of time he was count) = 37/38 minimum.

But, again, it could be more, it all depends on your hc.

So, my guesses for the ages of the main 6 (I would like to explain more about the others, but this would be as long as the bible, so maybe some other day!!) are:

From youngest to oldest (this order was confirmed by the devs)

Asra: 24-28 (I personally see him as 26, 9 when he met Muriel).

Portia: 25-29 (I personally see her as 27, 9 years apart from Julian so she can remember him but not so vividly, as she was still a kid when he left)

Muriel: 26-31 (I personally see him as 28, 11 when he met Asra. Tbh I think that if he was older than 13 or 14 on his tale, he would already be almost as tall as or even taller than Lucio lol. Like, this man is over 2 meters and he's mentioned to be super tall as a kid already so)

Julian: 33-40~ (I personally see him as 36. As I said before, I think it could still work if he was older than 40, as long as he's not older than Lucio since it's canon that he's younger than him).

Lucio: 37-44~ (I personally see him as 39. I do not think he could be older than 44 because for some reasons I think the age gap between him an Muriel has to be big but can't be bigger than 14 years, and as I said before I don't think Muriel can't be older than 14 on his tale. I would like to explain in detail but not in this post!!)

Nadia: 37-44~ (I personalle see her as 39, same as Lucio. Have in mind that she can just be some months older, not necessarily years. I think with Nadia there's more freedom tho, because since she's the oldests, any kind of age gap between her and the others makes sense. I mean, sure, I think we can all agree that it's impossible she's 70, but could she be 50 or almost? I think it could make sense, maybe magic skincare is just that good lol)

So that's it!! Again, I could totally be wrong, the timeline is pretty confusing and tbh I think that not even the devs have any canon ages for them, and that's okay, it's kinda the point. If you are a younger player, you can just decide to not do the math and hc them around your age, so I think it's nice that everyone is able to have their own interpretations. But I wanted to try to throw some light on the matter in case anyone finds it useful, because I've also seen that some of the most popular posts are from years ago, when we did not have that much info about the timeline, and that some posts have some mistakes (the most common one I've seen is that people think Asra and Muriel met 20 years ago and make their hc with that assumption, maybe Muriel's route was not even a thing at that point but, as I said, it's been confirmed that they met 17 years prior to the present time of the game).

I am not trying at all to calim I am 100% correct so feel free to correct me!

And, lastly, I wanted to comment something about the thing about Timotheé which has not much to do with the rest. I honestly think that it's not that big of a deal that they choose a younger actor...? Do not get me wrong, I would also love to see more love for older actors, but since The Arcana character's do not really have a canon age, I do not think that who they "cast" has anything to do. For what I've seen, they also said they took inspiration from a famous man on his 60s for Julian (and I think we all agree that Julian can't be 60 lol), and they have also choosen an actor who is +30 for a character of Fictif who is canonically 23. I agree that Chamalet does not loke like Julian at all, but I do not think the problem is that Nix Hydra doesn't want to choose actors over 30 (because they already did), the problem is they do not know how to handle social media and that kids have too much control over their posts lol. Call me resentful, but I am stil angry about the Muriel post.

I do not know if Timothée is jewish tho, and I do agree that if he is not they should have choosen an actor who is.

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