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spiderman-slay · 2 years ago

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Do you think that gwen stacy is trans?

Yes, yes I do.

Now, the last time I talked about this I also mentioned I didn't see a point in making a post about it, because nothing I was going to say was going to be different than what you had probably already seen everywhere else.

That being said-

I had seen SO MANY idiots on the internet, to which I haven't replied (because I am also trans I used to know when or not to bother with people like that,) which had made me want to discuss the matter in my own words, even if I can't truly add anything new to the table.

So, I will probably do the same reasoning everyone else had already said, if anyone is still interested in reading it feel free, if not you can scroll. I will also address some common criticism of the theory.

Before we start the actual arguments, a few things.

No, I don't think if you believe Gwen is cis you are transphobic or something, as long as you are respectful.

I can't say how people see her or not, and while for me the evidence feels obvious, I know unless we have Gwen saying it (or someone close to her at least,) it cannot be sure one way or another. Remember that, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I am fine if someone doesn't think she is trans, but I do think believing is IMPOSSIBLE for her to be is when you are entering transphobic territory. The reason why I think this is dumb, aside of the evidence; is the fact that if a character doesn't need to say I'm cis at any point to believe so, Gwen shouldn't need to say I'm trans for people to HC her as such or similar.

With that out of the way, let's start.

Going back to this image, we see that Gwen has a flag that says "Protect trans kids." Which to me feels like says a lot.

I had seen people suggest that "Of course she is an ally, she is a hero!" And while I could get Gwen being interested in helping people who face discrimination, since she deals with crime and such; the idea has me cackling more than anything else.

Is not impossible, but seriously, WHEN had you seen an ally with a flag in their room? It feels like an excuse someone who is in the closet would say; allies could have trans stuff or displayed in certain situations, but those situations tend to be in public, you know? Since being an ally means being vocal when you need to; there is really no reason for an Ally to have a trans flag in their room as decoration.

To top it all off, is on top of her door, not a window or anything, is obviously this is more for her than anything else.

George Stacy has a trans flag on his uniform.

This...This a really big deal honestly.

In a vacuum is a small gesture, perhaps if you aren't part of the community you don't get why I think this is amazing. So let me say a couple of things.

He is supporting his trans daughter; maybe is because of my family, or because all of my current trans and non-gender conforming friends have parents who range from shitting to not very supportive in general. So having Gwen be trans, still be a teen, and her dad supporting her? FUCK that means the world to me, even if I think he isn't that good of a dad.

This is in his uniform, this isn't just supporting Gwen in front of her, but also when she isn't around. You would be surprised how many parents say to be supportive but be quiet while hearing about discrimination. This also can lead me to believe he will be supportive when other trans individuals are around.

He is a cop. In real life, I don't feel safe around cops for a multitude of reasons I will not get to because I don't want to get too political here. Regardless, the fact that he is the Police Captain of his department while having this shows that he can be supportive of trans people, is huge.

Now, I know the next piece of evidence has been debated A LOT, especially for people who honestly, have clearly no idea how cinema, animation, or art work at all.

You know? Coding can be so funny at times.

There have been multiple times, when things had been coded on purpose, to the point I thought it was as subtle as a brick hitting your face; and yet I still find people who don't get it and just baffled me to not end.

Examples: Norma in Dead End Paranormal is coded as autistic, but it is never explicitly said on the show, (I think is mentioned in the comics? I know the creator is autistic.) However I never felt it needed to, because Normal has so many signs and hints that I clock her in the first episode, and the representation is so point it feels as if she needed to state she is a woman of color.

Nimona is another example related to the trans experience; seriously almost word for word what Nimona says can be applied to trans people, with the creator also being trans; and yet I was baffled to see some people saw the movie and didn't clock that.

Now, is what Gwen is saying in this scene talking about her experience being Spider-woman? Yes. However, just like Nimona didn't explicitly say she was trans, their entire story revolves around a trans allegory (As well as being likely genderfluid,) feels like is trying to say something.

Not to mention that this is a story, an animated one at that; everything you see on screen was put there by someone and animation tends to have fewer coincidences because you are going to be staring at this screen for a LONG time most probably. It was also noted by the crunch situation (which is again, horrifying and I think Chris Miller needs to find another way to work rather than wasting time and resources like he did,) that the writers had a tendency to tweak to make sure everything was on point; this couldn't have been thrown carelessly.

With all of this preface, Gwen's speech in this section? This could be played WORD BY WORD on a come-out speech.

"And they can only know half of who I am!" -> Having your real gender identity in the closet a lot of times feels like you need to hide half of who you are, from likings to aesthetics to even how you behave socially, it can be a big toll.

"So I'm completely on my own!" -> This is a common sentiment for people who are in the closet without support, because you are carrying all these feelings alone and have no one to understand.

"And now, I don't- I don't even know what the right thing is, anymore!" -> People may be a bit confused about this one, but believe it or not, it happens more often than you think. Should you transition? Should you wait a few years? Should you try to have this conversation with your parents, cousins, etc?

"But I know...I can't lose, one more friend." -> I don't think, I need to talk about how often people aren't supportive of trans individuals. I could talk more about this, but frankly, I don't need to. It happens, even to this day and age, especially in the current political climate.

To top all of this off, the reason why I singling this part (Aside from this speech being as subtle as the Ruby Gillman movie having the antagonist be a parody of Ariel.) Is the background.

The colors are just like a trans flag.

Now, I had seen people suggest that pointing at this is dumb because "that's just an homage to the covers!"

To which I said, no, this is the homage.

And what the background is doing with Gwen in the speech scene is definitely not the same thing.

I find this argument really funny from an artistic point of view, but in case people are wondering why I don't think it counts, let me number a few things.

The covers do this lighting situation OUTSIDE, they normally depict Gwen being around the city on a landscape when things happen, not indoors. This is both the covers and the sky in Gwen's universe. But we don't see indoor places doing this really.

The colors blend, while you can see buildings and windows have their own colours, you can also see them going from orange, to pink and red on the exact same wall.

If you want even more proof of my support, let me show you what the artbook says about this (which includes the covers.)

My point is, even if we try to argue that the covers had something to do; do you think in a movie where they already have Gwen had a trans flag, her dad had a trans patch; would have a moment when the speech mimics exactly the trans experience (or a big chunk for many people,) with the colors in the background being EXACTLY like a trans a flag, with creators and creative that they have STATED, the importance of color in Gwen's world and in Gwen specifically, somehow just choose colors at random at a pivotal moment of the movie?

And I am somehow the crazy one?

Biases

I like to believe I am a fair person, for the most part. Every time I do these analyses I try to be as impartial as possible, and when I know there is a chance my biases and personal opinion will come into hand, I said that much.

As I said before, I am trans, anyone who has seen at least my master post can probably guess I like Gwen. Having a character I dearly love be trans (Even if our situations are wildly different) obviously means the world to me, and perhaps I would have had a similar headcanon even without any hints or evidence.

Regardless, I don't think what I am saying is purely biased; things are put in movies for a reason, especially animated movies, and let me tell you something, has this been another character, especially if it was a new character? I don't think people would be debating this.

If we have a new character having a trans flag in their room, their dad having a trans patch, this narrative; I doubt anyone would be saying this is coding. (Honestly, we would probably have more dudebros saying this is woke garbage than the ones I had seen lol.)

Alternative theories

Now, since I have addressed the theory and some of its criticism, I can't just ignore the number of people had rather than thinking Gwen is trans, believe someone else is.

Theory 1: Peter is Trans

This isn't odd. Honestly if you had been part of the Spiderman community while being queer, or aware of queer readings, you would have probably come around to the fact that a lot of people headcanon Peter Parker as trans, in multiple different variants in different mediums.

Partially because the spidey-hero situation really mimics the trans experience (there is a reason why you can put Gwen's speech on a come-out scene while simultaneously being about her hero identity without either way sounding forced,) and depending on what source materials, other clues can apply. This post isn't about that and it is already extremely long, so I will not dwell on this.

With this theory in mind, Gwen and her dad would be having trans flag and patch in memory of Peter, since with this theory it was likely that was the reason he was bullied, and probably another reason why to experiment to become the lizard; since being bullied could make him feel like he needs to find a way to be more masculine.

And look, do I have a problem with people thinking Peter is trans? Not really, I encourage it, I personally like the idea that both Gwen and Peter were trans and they bonded over it.

However, I wouldn't want this to be in canon, why?... It feels like it would fall into some harmful stereotypes.

Think about it this way; if we go with this route, a trans teen was bullied, after showing he looks like he is kind of isolated (Gwen seems to have the band at least, Peter looks like he was a loner, and then Gwen started to put distance between them because Spider-woman issues.) Get's so desperate that in an attempt to be "special" (maybe even "better" and "stronger," if he felt he wasn't enough as he was,) tries to experiment with things he shouldn't dying in the process; to which Gwen and her dad then would try to fight for trans rights in his memory, as this theory also heavily implies Peter was bullied because he was trans.

And look, angst narratives had their place, and a lot of people like this narrative, heck I remember a book that does something similar (More than Gold is the name, tho the character doesn't die,) and that was written by a trans person.

Nonetheless, the idea to suggest the only trans person in this narrative, dies after ostracization and bullying, and their purpose on the story as a whole would be to fuel Gwen's pain, with the "protect trans kids" idea only happening partially because of her guilt; feels a lot like "bury your gays (or trans in this case,)" something akin to frigging (while Peter would obviously still consider a boy in this theory, having a character from a minority die to hurt/inspire a protagonist, feels deeply concerning.) Is just a combination of too many things that I dislike.

Again, if someone likes this idea I will not say they are a bad person or anything; but I would have fewer issues if it wasn't because a SIGNIFICANT number of those who said this theory, had also shown to be deeply transphobic; insisting Gwen is obviously not trans with non-arguments. Doesn't need to be everyone, but it still annoys me.

2. Captain Stacy IS the trans one!

This one is...interesting, to say the least.

This one is less frequent than Peter's, but I had seen it pop around enough that I decided to address it.

Unlike Peter's, this one doesn't carry horrible connotations. Well it would have the "only" (if we go with this theory and with no other "canon" trans parent in the story,) trans parent be also the one that tries to point a gun at his daughter, to also be so extremely stubborn even when she finally comes back he acts kind of petulant- okay all of these things are bad, however, they wouldn't need to be related to each other; since none of these are really stereotypes of trans men. That's something?

Anyways, the big idea behind this theory is that aside from being more plausible for an adult to use a trans patch because they are trans rather than because their kid is trans, it could be a possible explanation as to why there is no mom or mention of a mom, since this child could be in vitro.

Which, okay, not that bad; I don't think a lot of trans men would like the idea of being pregnant, however, it has happened before so why not.

I don't think this is a bad theory overall, I just don't roll with it because it feels kind of, lazy? Again, do as you may; but it feels that the people who did it were more interested in again, having an explanation for Gwen not being trans, while also not actively being transphobic. Maybe some people just want more trans dad content I don't know.

There are technically instances of both the Peter theory and the Dad theory that could dethrone both of these, but the one related to Peter makes me feel a bit gross to think too hard about, and the other George one could imply something things that one way or other I don't like when the reality is that is a few frames on a scene where the patch isn't the focus. Another reason is that hey, if I don't have solid evidence on my own, I am not going to nitpick at other fan theories.

Speaking of which.

Is this Representation?

Short answer: No, no it's not.

I don't even want to discuss if is good representation, because it doesn't feel like it is to begin with. Yes, I do believe Gwen is trans, but all the things I have are background references, that are okay, however not having a confirmation does sting. It doesn't have to be the focus of her character, yet is not even off comments really, just some clues around.

Do I think it doesn't have Merit? No.

I remember during the first days this movie was out, I read a comment from someone who was in Florida, who said when they saw the "Protect Trans Kids" flag in Gwen's room, started crying.

I think of myself, almost a decade ago, in a country that wasn't really welcome to gay people, much less trans people; of the discrimination I faced because of it. I think when I was a teen, grappling with all these feelings; and how I would had feel seen the badass and cool, Gwen Stacy as Spider-woman, having that trans flag in their room. I know I would have cried too.

We cannot act like things are perfect currently; the United States, England, and other countries are becoming increasingly transphobic; having these things in a PG movie, from a big company, that is released to a worldwide level and is making bank. Not to mention that as small as these details are, the movie did end up getting banned for it, not even censored.

I think we can get better representation, but it doesn't mean this is less huge or less special; even if it didn't touch me like it would have in the past, it had touched many people, and that's something I appreciate one way or another.

This is in itself, another reason why to love this idea.

Gwen being trans fits the themes of the story better

Stan Lee is obviously, talking about Spider-MAN, but it gets the message across doesn't it?

Part of the reason Spiderman became so iconic, was the idea that ANYONE could be Spiderman, this ended up involved in these movies too.

In Across the Spider-verse, we see multiple types of spiders, people from the future, and past, children, women, men, animals, and a popsicle at one point (literally.) The movie also has Miguel, who is the antagonist, convinced what makes them Spiderman/Spiderwoman/you get the idea- is decided by a cosmic force, with Miles claiming that Spiderman is an idea, a responsibility, but something much more diverse than "you need these events to happen in order to be considered truly spiderman."

In Into the Spider-verse, this idea is also shown, by having spideys that are not just Peter Parker, and how Peter while important, isn't truly the protagonist of this tale, he doesn't need to be.

This franchise hinders the idea that being Spiderman is more than a name, a gender, or your background; is about someone that when given the possibility of using their powers for their own gain or ignoring the call, decides to risk it all, to handle a difficult life, to try to do their best despite the circumstances; because the essence of Spiderman, is being a hero, and anyone can be Spiderman. Anyone can be a hero.

Gwen being trans, elevates this idea.

While I think having more Spider-woman content is empowering on its own, cis woman or trans, the idea of having a trans hero obviously exemplifies this idea more than having her absence.

If Gwen is a trans girl, it would mean having a trans girl who is a tridimensional character, a trans teen that messes up, that doesn't know what to do, but is also a hero, and wants to do her best like everyone else. It means showing a trans girl as someone beautiful, badass, and having a guy who adores her with all his might.

If the idea of having her Peter be trans could be problematic, having her be trans means having a great role model, means a story about trans joy where we are free to be more than our identities, because the idea of Gwen casually being a hero and also trans is amazing in its own.

Is not perfect, but I ultimately love this idea, because it brings me hope. It means comfort for some trans and trans teens suffering out there, it means perhaps someone out there will try to offer more stories on the big screen with trans teens.

I want to believe this because Gwen being trans means more for us and the narrative than it would be otherwise. Let us have our dreams.

#gwen stacy

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