stanleyoff7th

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watching the twins' ownership fumble every bag imaginable this year has made me increasingly glad for leipold. at least that ancient fuck seems to be sincere in his desire to get a stanley cup (if only because he's a good enough businessman to realize that teams that win championships get more $$$$) (this is a bar the pohlads past and present cannot clear)

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suddenly thinking about him

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fuck it, im a dodgers fan now

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Correa was the canary that this was gonna be a rebuild. But it's not even a good rebuild.

Correa is—was—basically a player-manager. He was deeply keyed into every management and front office decision, both because he personally loves to think about and be involved in that stuff, and because that's expected of a team's marquee free agent signing and biggest ever investment. He was willing to waive his no-trade clause specifically for Houston, but said as recently as yesterday afternoon (before the Duran trade that really kicked all this off) that he still wanted to be here and win here.

As soon as the trade broke, it was clear something changed. When Correa signed that deal for $200 million in 2023, the largest contract in franchise history and the clear signal to everyone that the Twins were willing to take big swings on top-level free agents, he was promised an up-and-coming team that would build around him and compete for championships. He spoke enthusiastically about the team's future during that initial press conference, and dedicated himself to bettering the team above and beyond through his leadership and strategy. For his efforts, he got one year of that same commitment to winning from the Twins before the payroll cuts began, and by this deadline it was clear that promise was dead.

In all likelihood, Correa was directly told this team wouldn't be a competitor during the remaining three guaranteed years of his contract, and accordingly he wanted out.

This is clearly supposed to be a rebuild. The Twins just traded an astonishing 10 players off the major-league roster in three days, 9 of them in a 24-hour span, all for players of unequivocally lesser current value. The bullpen, the pride of the team, was completely gutted, and a huge chunk was taken out of the positional starters as well. Even for a fire sale, this scale is unprecedented and a clear sign of changing the franchise's direction. This team hasn't had a hard rebuild in decades, maybe ever: the concept of blowing it up at the deadline in this particular fashion is a modern one, and all the bad stretches in that time have been entirely self-inflicted by the Twins.

But it's a rebuild built on clearing payroll space above all else, not on building a compelling farm system for a planned future competitive window, and the returns show.

This was a seller's marker, especially for relievers, but the Twins traded four with significant team control and received a total of three notable prospects back, all with significant risk and a lack of industry consensus on their true value. Two of those were from the Duran trade, which remains underwhelming in a vacuum but contextualizes just how desperate the other moves look and feel. The other returns from these trades are three fringe-MLB players who have yet to prove they can sustain success at this level, a talent group already filled to bursting on this team. One each of the latter was acquired 1-to-1 for Stewart and Jax, a shockingly low return given both carry the same 2.5 years of team control as Duran and thus hypothetically should've been able to net talent in a similar neighborhood.

The Varland (and France) trade is its own insanity entirely. A pitcher just establishing himself as an elite reliever, with five years of team control remaining, incredibly valuable to the Twins but unlikely to be viewed the same in trade talks due to the limited track record. Not to mention a hometown guy. Why the absolute flying fuck would you trade a player like that? He's making league minimum, what are you possibly gaining that you couldn't in two years?

Nothing notable was gotten in any of the other six trades, five of the Twins' six impending free agents (no one wanted Vazquez, of course) and Correa. A back-half-of-the-top-30 prospect and a lottery ticket each for Castro and Bader, another back-half prospect for Paddack, less for Coulombe, and France was bundled into the Varland trade. Rentals are rentals, sure, but after seeing the Mets, Padres, and Mariners send over multiple ranked prospects for their rental acquisitions, the Twins' returns feel middling. And the Correa return was a warm body for high-A and a $33 million slap in the face.

This is not a competent rebuild because nothing's being built. If in the absolute best case scenario a new owner walked in and turned this team into a contender over the offseason, it would have to be through free agency and trades, because the players returned in this fire sale will not push the Twins into contention in the next 2-3 years. And if you're gonna spend money on all new players, why not just keep the ones you already have who are already known and loved? But orders came down to wipe the slate blank, and wipe it they did.

And like, who technically knows. Maybe next year Taj Bradley turns it around, James Outman hits 30 home runs, a bunch of those prospects hit, and I look stupid. Maybe Brooks Lee or David Festa has a breakout season, maybe Emmanuel Rodriguez wins Rookie of the Year. It's baseball, anything can happen, good or bad. There will be plenty to cheer and hope for. There always is.

But for all that emotional devastation of maybe the single most impactful trade deadline the Twins have ever had, we're not set up for success any more than we were before, as far as I can see. The team will continue to bleed attendance as this gutted roster and lame-duck staff play out the rest of the season, and it is entirely the Twins' fault.

I don't blame anyone for stepping back from their fandom. I might have to, to some degree. I wish it wasn't like this. Baseball is a beautiful sport, and the Twins are as woven into my life as Minnesota's four seasons, and I would love if everyone could fall in love with this team the way I did. But they're making it extremely hard to care the way I want to when it's clear they don't care about their own fans, and arguably their own players.

It's gonna take a while before this really feels like my team again, and not just the obligatory local rooting interest. This core is the one I really fell in love with, that second time as an adult, and so many of my favorite memories are tied to players who are gone now. Just gotta wait and hope for the best with the team sale, I guess.

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the curse is broken time to SLUT IT UP

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What do you mean "the real magic was inside me". Then what the fuck did we gather the magic amulets for

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byron buxton (minnesota twins #25) hits for the cycle on jonas brodin (minnesota wild #25)'s birthday. COINCIDENCE???????? yeah probably

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i understand why people like the queue and i do respect you guys for using it but that is just not how i roll. if i think these 37 posts are funny you’re seeing them right fucking now

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since some of you do not understand sports, here once again:

my team does it: GOOD

your stupid little team does it: SHITE

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[on who's the best at sewerball] "Maybe...me?" Beyond Our Ice S2E9 (04.29.2021)

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Fresh from the sauna

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would love to know your thoughts on polanco’s characterization

…. for no particular reason

!!!

I'll try to make this one shorter than the last one lol. First, though, some background.

Polanco is very interesting for multiple reasons, many of which boil down to the fact that he's never really had the spotlight. He was signed, developed, and then played alongside two much flashier and attention-grabbing players in Miguel Sano and Max Kepler, and played with more of a quiet consistency compared to those two and other big Twins names of that era. He was a poor defensive shortstop (which itself is indicative of poor management/roster decisions) who got slapped with a PED suspension immediately after his breakout season, then had by far his two best years outshined by the 30-homer quintet of the Bomba Squad and rendered meaningless in the slog of the Twins' 2021 season. The time he hit for the cycle in a rainy 10-4 interleague away loss in April is really a microcosm of the first half of his career, always overshadowed by something or someone else.

Nothing came easy for Polanco, and I'm not sure whether those experiences made him such a low-key, team-first, put-your-head-down-and-work kind of guy, or if he was always like that and that's what allowed him to succeed. Either way, it's a stark contrast to the frustration and wasted potential of Sano and the standoffish mediocrity of Kepler. Though that style made him frequently overlooked, Polanco had a combination of steadiness and sincerity that really appealed to his teammates, and he knew how to have fun, too. He was always in the middle of team shenanigans and celebrations, extremely integral to the team's camaraderie.

Though he wasn't particularly vocal with the media, by mid-2022 Polanco was known as a clubhouse leader and the team glue guy. He would play anywhere and anytime to help the team, and everyone knew and respected that. His first IL stint wasn't until 2022, 700 games into his career, despite previously playing through significant ankle issues; the physical toll on his body from that has undoubtedly contributed to his repeated injury issues since. He switched positions twice: to second to accommodate elite defenders in Simmons/Correa, then briefly to third to open up playing time for Julien, where he looked clearly uncomfortable but volunteered for it knowing it would help the team.

When the trade happened, I really thought Polanco's presence on the Mariners would be stepping into Geno Suarez's role as a vibes-and-clutchness over pure performance guy and a leader for the Latin players, which was fully my mistake. Polanco was always a fairly quiet and private guy, and I'm sure leaving the organization he'd known for half his life was a difficult transition, but there definitely haven't been the reports out of Seattle about his clubhouse contributions that I expected. This season he does seem well-integrated, though, and the Mariners have a number of homegrown guys who have been directly pushed as team leaders, so maybe that aspect of him is just being missed by a media market that doesn't know him as well.

Polanco comes across very laid-back and self-assured, but I doubt he was always that way, especially as a 23-year-old resorting to PEDs to solidify his roster spot after multiple seasons of bouncing back and forth from triple-A. He's kind of old-school, undramatic and almost boring in that he knows what he wants and needs to do and just does it. It's not that he views baseball as a job, though; quite the opposite: he cares very deeply about his team's place in the community, how much they mean to fans, and his own responsibilities as a veteran. He's just not flashy, or overtly ambitious, or charismatic, or blessed with standout tools. What he has to give is himself, and he does that to the fullest.

Honestly, we know less about Polanco from himself than from how his teammates talk about him. In summary: hardworking, adaptable, imperfect but quietly excellent. Not a star, but the kind of player and person a team depends on. In 2023 he started getting called "the heart and soul of the Twins", and it's very fitting. He's self-sacrificing, concerningly so, but I don't think he has a complex about it; he just wants to play and contribute however he can, for better or worse. He's straightfoward, doesn't seem to overthink or underthink, also for better or worse. He's understated, but with a quiet swagger, frequently batflipping walks and one (1) home run.

I've got a few things to add on the other blog (...tomorrow) but I'll leave this post with that one batflipped home run. Perfectly timed as always. I really do love Polanco.

[stanleyoff7th]

i could never play hockey bc i take everything personal and i hold a grudge. like oh you crosschecked me? okay i’ll cut the brake lines on your car. now we both having a bad time

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okay i would love to hear why jeffers and garver have beef

Ok, this is legit one of my favorite baseball sicko topics. The Twins are not a high-personnel-drama team so it's kinda fun to have this one thing. We as a fanbase do probably exaggerate it but it's very much real.

The short version is when they played together in 2021, they both wanted to be the starting catcher and saw each other's ambition as a personal slight. The 2021 team had a lot of bad vibes, and Garver got traded that offseason as part of a larger vibes clean-up, and for at least a couple years after that he remained salty that the Twins picked Jeffers over him.

The full timeline long version is this:

Garver was drafted in 2013 by the previous front office, which was notoriously shit at prospect development. As a big, power hitting catcher with questionable defense, analysts weren't optimistic he would stick at catcher. He didn't debut until mid-2017 (at an old-for-a-prospect 26), but an early season injury to primary catcher Jason Castro in 2018 suddenly made him the main guy. He was as advertised, great hitting and meh defense. He had a breakout 2019, hitting 31 home runs in only 93 games as a major contributor to the record-breaking Bomba Squad team. In 2020 he struggled and got injured, which opened the door for Jeffers.

Jeffers was drafted by the current front office (who took over in 2017) in 2018, in the second round, which was universally regarded as a massive long shot by the Twins. So much so that it's a story he's asked about and tells frequently to this day. Like Garver, he was a big, power hitting catcher with questionable defense who wasn't favored to stick at catcher, but under the Twins' new minor league catching coach (who was later poached by the Yankees and has turned Wells and Escarra into defensive standouts) he quickly became a well-regarded defender. This was where the catcher one-knee-down trend started; it was taught to all Twins catchers, and Garver said on record he wished he had coaching like that as a prospect.

Between this and his well-lauded baseball IQ and drive to improve as a player, Jeffers was an extremely highly regarded prospect in the Twins system. While we don't have much of Garver's thoughts on the matter from this time, I can't imagine he took well to his team drafting and developing their catcher of the future while Garver was still in arbitration. Jeffers shot through the minors, skipping triple-A (in part due to the 2020 minor league cancellation), and looked great in his small 2020 major-league sample, starting both playoff games over multiple more experienced options.

The plan in 2021 was a 50/50 split between Garver and Jeffers, given Garver's injury history and Jeffers' inexperience. Jeffers struggled to start the season and was sent down, but in early June Garver got hit with a foul ball and ruptured a testicle (truly he was destined to become a Mariner), making Jeffers the primary catcher. This general trend continued the entire season, with Garver outperforming Jeffers significantly on offense, but given his repeated injuries and Jeffers' better defense, the 50/50 split remained. They were both unhappy with this, with Jeffers openly attributing his hitting struggles to a lack of consistent playing time.

There were multiple reported conflicts between teammates in a largely miserable 2021 season rife with illness, injury, and awful pitching blowups. Josh Donaldson got the headlines, but last year senior Twins reporter Dan Hayes confirmed, though talking carefully around exact names, that Garver is "not positive" toward Jeffers and only Jeffers and "both of them decided to not play nice toward each other". He declined to get into specifics, saying, "There's nothing really to know other than they didn't like each other," but confirmed the reason was they both "wanted to be the lead guy". This backs up statements both players made in 2023, which I'll get into later.

Despite being among the more productive members of that 2021 team, both Garver and Donaldson were traded after the lockout ended in 2022, as part of the domino chain of events that ended with the Twins signing Carlos Correa. Rookie catcher Ben Rortvedt was traded alongside Donaldson for notoriously bat-first catcher Gary Sánchez, cementing Jeffers as the Twins' choice at catcher. Early in the 2022 season, the team's positive vibes and great clubhouse chemistry were frequently discussed, inviting the inference of what personnel changed between seasons. Despite continuing to run 60/40 or 50/50 splits with his co-catchers, Sánchez and later Christian Vázquez, Jeffers never complained again about playing time and has been very complimentary of them both.

For Garver's part, he suffered an arm injury in 2022 that limited him to DH, and he intentionally delayed season-ending surgery until after the Twins played the Rangers in July. In 2023, with Jonah Heim's breakout season, Garver was pushed even further to DH, where he was an excellent hitter for the World Series-winning Rangers. Jeffers, meanwhile, finally had his own offensive breakout in 2023, though his characteristic framing-centric defense declined significantly as he reworked his mechanics with coaches.

The Twins and Rangers met in late August, with the Rangers on a losing streak, and in the first game Jeffers hit a pinch-hit go-ahead home run to seal a big Twins comeback, complete with massive bat flip. The next game, the Rangers hit Jeffers. Unintentional or not, who knows: the pitcher had been wild and there was a runner on, but first pitch of the at-bat and he hadn't been missing in that direction. Either way, the next half inning Sonny Gray hit Garver (who had homered earlier in the game) in clear retaliation and the benches cleared. In his postgame interview, Garver blamed Jeffers for the benches clearing, referring to him as "their guy" and essentially calling him stupid for thinking the hit-by-pitch was intentional.

No further drama ensued that series. After the Rangers won the World Series, Jeffers was asked in a private Q&A if he'd contacted Garver to congratulate him on the win; Jeffers gave a firm but awkward no and said something like, "We're not really... friends" in a forced polite way before directly referencing the August incident and Garver calling him "their guy".

Ultimately the Twins wanted stability at catcher and they made the right decision. Garver's offensive highs have been much higher, but Jeffers has played 85% of his games at catcher, is highly respected by the pitching staff, and has developed into a team leader, if not quite the catcher of the future they were hoping for. I think the Twins' choice of who to keep reflected mainly Jeffers' skillset and potential, but also who they thought was a better clubhouse fit. I don't know who started the beef, but I would say the blame for not being the bigger person lies more on the 6-years-older veteran.

Since Garver joined the Mariners things seem to have simmered down, but there's not nothing if you're looking for it. Garver's other former Twins teammates all seem to regard him pretty well, which makes the dynamic with Jeffers stand out even more. The Mariners did also hit Jeffers with a pitch at the end of a lopsided series last May in which Jeffers performed very well, on the first pitch of his final at-bat for their only HBP of the series. Garver's also been a bit cursed, as yesterday makes twice now he's come out of the game due to injury against the Twins on his rare catching days.

Another level of context to all this is catcher legacy is very important in Twins culture. Garver was drafted the year Joe Mauer had to move to first base; Jeffers was drafted the last year Mauer played. The Twins have spent the last decade-plus searching for Mauer's replacement, and that title means a lot, so maybe it's not surprising such a deep rivalry would form between the two homegrown players with the best chance at that title. There's actually a great Youtube video about the saga of Twins catchers post-Mauer. This rivalry, whether or not it's still ongoing (I think it is), certainly adds an interesting flavor to the story.

[stanleyoff7th]

okay i would love to hear why jeffers and garver have beef

Ok, this is legit one of my favorite baseball sicko topics. The Twins are not a high-personnel-drama team so it's kinda fun to have this one thing. We as a fanbase do probably exaggerate it but it's very much real.

The short version is when they played together in 2021, they both wanted to be the starting catcher and saw each other's ambition as a personal slight. The 2021 team had a lot of bad vibes, and Garver got traded that offseason as part of a larger vibes clean-up, and for at least a couple years after that he remained salty that the Twins picked Jeffers over him.

The full timeline long version is this:

Garver was drafted in 2013 by the previous front office, which was notoriously shit at prospect development. As a big, power hitting catcher with questionable defense, analysts weren't optimistic he would stick at catcher. He didn't debut until mid-2017 (at an old-for-a-prospect 26), but an early season injury to primary catcher Jason Castro in 2018 suddenly made him the main guy. He was as advertised, great hitting and meh defense. He had a breakout 2019, hitting 31 home runs in only 93 games as a major contributor to the record-breaking Bomba Squad team. In 2020 he struggled and got injured, which opened the door for Jeffers.

Jeffers was drafted by the current front office (who took over in 2017) in 2018, in the second round, which was universally regarded as a massive long shot by the Twins. So much so that it's a story he's asked about and tells frequently to this day. Like Garver, he was a big, power hitting catcher with questionable defense who wasn't favored to stick at catcher, but under the Twins' new minor league catching coach (who was later poached by the Yankees and has turned Wells and Escarra into defensive standouts) he quickly became a well-regarded defender. This was where the catcher one-knee-down trend started; it was taught to all Twins catchers, and Garver said on record he wished he had coaching like that as a prospect.

Between this and his well-lauded baseball IQ and drive to improve as a player, Jeffers was an extremely highly regarded prospect in the Twins system. While we don't have much of Garver's thoughts on the matter from this time, I can't imagine he took well to his team drafting and developing their catcher of the future while Garver was still in arbitration. Jeffers shot through the minors, skipping triple-A (in part due to the 2020 minor league cancellation), and looked great in his small 2020 major-league sample, starting both playoff games over multiple more experienced options.

The plan in 2021 was a 50/50 split between Garver and Jeffers, given Garver's injury history and Jeffers' inexperience. Jeffers struggled to start the season and was sent down, but in early June Garver got hit with a foul ball and ruptured a testicle (truly he was destined to become a Mariner), making Jeffers the primary catcher. This general trend continued the entire season, with Garver outperforming Jeffers significantly on offense, but given his repeated injuries and Jeffers' better defense, the 50/50 split remained. They were both unhappy with this, with Jeffers openly attributing his hitting struggles to a lack of consistent playing time.

There were multiple reported conflicts between teammates in a largely miserable 2021 season rife with illness, injury, and awful pitching blowups. Josh Donaldson got the headlines, but last year senior Twins reporter Dan Hayes confirmed, though talking carefully around exact names, that Garver is "not positive" toward Jeffers and only Jeffers and "both of them decided to not play nice toward each other". He declined to get into specifics, saying, "There's nothing really to know other than they didn't like each other," but confirmed the reason was they both "wanted to be the lead guy". This backs up statements both players made in 2023, which I'll get into later.

Despite being among the more productive members of that 2021 team, both Garver and Donaldson were traded after the lockout ended in 2022, as part of the domino chain of events that ended with the Twins signing Carlos Correa. Rookie catcher Ben Rortvedt was traded alongside Donaldson for notoriously bat-first catcher Gary Sánchez, cementing Jeffers as the Twins' choice at catcher. Early in the 2022 season, the team's positive vibes and great clubhouse chemistry were frequently discussed, inviting the inference of what personnel changed between seasons. Despite continuing to run 60/40 or 50/50 splits with his co-catchers, Sánchez and later Christian Vázquez, Jeffers never complained again about playing time and has been very complimentary of them both.

For Garver's part, he suffered an arm injury in 2022 that limited him to DH, and he intentionally delayed season-ending surgery until after the Twins played the Rangers in July. In 2023, with Jonah Heim's breakout season, Garver was pushed even further to DH, where he was an excellent hitter for the World Series-winning Rangers. Jeffers, meanwhile, finally had his own offensive breakout in 2023, though his characteristic framing-centric defense declined significantly as he reworked his mechanics with coaches.

The Twins and Rangers met in late August, with the Rangers on a losing streak, and in the first game Jeffers hit a pinch-hit go-ahead home run to seal a big Twins comeback, complete with massive bat flip. The next game, the Rangers hit Jeffers. Unintentional or not, who knows: the pitcher had been wild and there was a runner on, but first pitch of the at-bat and he hadn't been missing in that direction. Either way, the next half inning Sonny Gray hit Garver (who had homered earlier in the game) in clear retaliation and the benches cleared. In his postgame interview, Garver blamed Jeffers for the benches clearing, referring to him as "their guy" and essentially calling him stupid for thinking the hit-by-pitch was intentional.

No further drama ensued that series. After the Rangers won the World Series, Jeffers was asked in a private Q&A if he'd contacted Garver to congratulate him on the win; Jeffers gave a firm but awkward no and said something like, "We're not really... friends" in a forced polite way before directly referencing the August incident and Garver calling him "their guy".

Ultimately the Twins wanted stability at catcher and they made the right decision. Garver's offensive highs have been much higher, but Jeffers has played 85% of his games at catcher, is highly respected by the pitching staff, and has developed into a team leader, if not quite the catcher of the future they were hoping for. I think the Twins' choice of who to keep reflected mainly Jeffers' skillset and potential, but also who they thought was a better clubhouse fit. I don't know who started the beef, but I would say the blame for not being the bigger person lies more on the 6-years-older veteran.

Since Garver joined the Mariners things seem to have simmered down, but there's not nothing if you're looking for it. Garver's other former Twins teammates all seem to regard him pretty well, which makes the dynamic with Jeffers stand out even more. The Mariners did also hit Jeffers with a pitch at the end of a lopsided series last May in which Jeffers performed very well, on the first pitch of his final at-bat for their only HBP of the series. Garver's also been a bit cursed, as yesterday makes twice now he's come out of the game due to injury against the Twins on his rare catching days.

Another level of context to all this is catcher legacy is very important in Twins culture. Garver was drafted the year Joe Mauer had to move to first base; Jeffers was drafted the last year Mauer played. The Twins have spent the last decade-plus searching for Mauer's replacement, and that title means a lot, so maybe it's not surprising such a deep rivalry would form between the two homegrown players with the best chance at that title. There's actually a great Youtube video about the saga of Twins catchers post-Mauer. This rivalry, whether or not it's still ongoing (I think it is), certainly adds an interesting flavor to the story.