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stillaswind · 15 days ago

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Breaking Down the Beth Survival Allegory in DC 2x4

The events in Dead City season 2 episode 4 contained A LOT of symbolism tied to Beth, so I wanted to take a deeper look at some of it and in particular the event sequence surrounding the walker fight. There is SO much in this episode that this is going to be quite the post, yet I will only be scratching the surface!

Let’s jump in from the first shot! The Cadillac Deville the Croat, Negan, the Dama, and the historian(in the trunk) arrive in is our first cue to pay attention to this sequence. The camera shot here is important. In the screenshot above, you can clearly see two eights. One as a number on the side of the car and one turned horizontal as an infinity symbol on top next to the spotlight. The angle here is intentional. They could just as easily have just filmed it from the front or back. This angle shows both the eights and the chevron symbol.

Very briefly, Cadillacs are seen in multiple critical scenes in TWD. A Cadillac two door Coup de Ville is the car from Grady that kidnapped Beth in Alone. Carol and Daryl use a Cadillac Seville to follow the Grady car in 5x02, and Carol uses another one in DD 2x1 in Maine when she takes off to look for Daryl.

For more on that check out this post by @frangipanilove

Interestingly, the hose you see making the infinity symbol “8” in this shot is what is making the car run. We see it tied to the methane tank in the trunk where they have their prisoner tied up.

Dama says, “Don’t forget anything in the car.” TD has theorized for years that Beth was left in car by TF, but when they returned, she was gone. This has been mostly based on Maggie’s reactions in 5x9

You can easily see how having this young man tied up in the trunk is a call back to Maggie’s scenes in 5x9. I think we should keep our eye on him throughout the series as he may provide some more clues. He is clearly not a seasoned warrior. He is a writer who found himself taken hostage by a group who thinks they are helping others/saving the world and that the ends justify the means. There are definite Beth parallels in his story.

Going back to the car itself, the chevron with the 8 emblem was used to signify a V8 engine, but according to my research, that exact emblem was mostly used on cars made in the 1950s(all makes and models, not just Cadillacs). So, it seems like it may have been INTENTIONALLY added to this vehicle. Here are the more modern ways the chevron and the V8 are symbolized on Cadillacs.

Extensive work has been done analyzing the Chevron symbolism by TDers. Here is a link to a post with contributions from @wdway, @gadrieljones, and @twdmusicboxmystery.

If you are not familiar with Chevron symbols here is a basic definition:

We see the chevron sweater in “Alone” and in “Coda” which were definitely bends in Beth's road. The last time we saw the symbol was in DD2 when Daryl is looking for a working car. The sign above has a chevron with an arrow through. It was in the garage where Daryl tries to convince an old man to let them borrow a car.

Then, Negan makes his way to the tow truck with the walker inside.

The number 18 and the “Rockaway Towing” symbolism were discussed here. The number 18 is a call back to the Beth’s suicide episode “18 Miles Out”. The “Rockaway Towing” is reminiscent of the “rock” or stone the rolled away from Jesus’ tomb indicating that he had resurrected and the body was no longer there. Notably, the walker has blood on his left temple, the same location where Beth was shot.

At this point, Negan looks at the walker but does not let him out.

He just moves on.

This early sequence is to cue us into the Beth symbolism. I think this first sequence symbolizes where Team Family, including Maggie, last saw Beth. To further support this, there is a fire department ambulance in the shot. Maggie arrived at Grady Hospital in a fire truck. Though we haven’t seen it, most likely Team Family used the fire truck when they took Beth from Grady.

This opening sequence includes SO many of the things TDers have discussed and theorized about it is INSANE! It's almost like it was written just for us! It’s such a set up to get us to pay attention to the rest of the sequence for clues about Beth.

I believe the next sequence around the “Last Supper” is meant to tie this survival allegory to the Daryl Dixson spin-off. Negan goes to the “Last Supper” meal of carrots and rats. I already discussed the carrot symbolism here, but the rats are also symbolic. There are multiple layers to the rat symbolism with much of it tied to NYC and the “rats” of Dead City.

However, since it is paired with the carrot, I think it is also tied to Beth. The rat being served is another rodent being eaten around art work just like Beth served the guinea pig with a Carvaggio in the background to the doctor in 5x4 “Slabtown”.

There are some other ties specifically to France and the Daryl Dixson spin-off throughout the meal.. First, when the Dama pushes her plate away saying, “I hear raccoon au poivre is on the way.” Using French is an obvious tie. Then, the historian recognizes the Dama and mentions the "king something theater" it will later by called the King Francis Theatre, tying it further to France as Francis was a King of France. King Francis I is known for supporting the French Renaissance, including getting Leonardo Da Vinci to make France his home in his final years and conducting the Italian Wars. (I am seeing more signs that Daryl Dixson may be in Italy for Season 5)

There is no King Francis Theatre in New York, so this name was INTENTIONALLY chosen. There is a Kings Theatre, but it is in Brooklyn, not in Manhattan. Its décor is said to be inspired by the palace at Versailles, another French connection. Then, they hit you over the head with a nod to the Daryl Dixson spin-off when The Croat asks Brugel,

which is a clear reference to the walkers in Daryl Dixson.

If we see the initial sequence as tied to Beth in Season 5, then the meal with all its French references, ties us into the Daryl Dixson spin-off specifically.

As the meal is taking place, Maggie has an interesting conversation with Herschel about memory. Herschel shares details about the “lightning bug” story that Maggie never knew. Lightning bugs are fireflies which were seen and discussed by Isabelle and Daryl in Daryl Dixson season 2 which is yet another tie in.

Then, Negan returns to the truck and opens the door letting the walker out as Maggie watches through binoculars. This is an especially important moment as it is the first time Maggie sees Negan this season. I think we are supposed to connect the story of the fireflies to the opening of the Rockaway Towing Truck #18. Maggie doesn’t know the part of the story where Beth leaves the vehicle and is “resurrected”. As I am writing this, I have just watched DC 2x6. The theme of “misremembering” is touched on again by Negan during his conversation with Maggie. I think this will apply directly to Beth and what happened after they left Grady. Maggie is missing information and/or is not remembering everything correctly. Perhaps, Beth will also not remember the events correctly either. Maybe she was told her family abandoned her? It may color how she interacts with Daryl and Carol at first when she sees them again. That impression was further strengthened by the Ginny/Narvaez conversation. Narvaez describes growing up surrounded by a large family in Jacksonville which is on the border of Florida/Georgia where Tyreese and Sasha were from. Then, she says it was just her on her own for a long time which is similar to Beth having a large family and then being on her own.

Negan then moves the “rock”, or in this case the door away, and gets his underdog walker. He calls the walker his "champion". I believe this next sequence is meant to show us HOW Beth survived all this time which will play into the storyline when she returns.

First is the repeated use of “the underdog” for the walker. He is smaller and weaker than Brugel’s “Frankenstein” walker.

Next, Negan refuses any armor for his “underdog” because nothing quite fits. The only rule is that the BACK of the head must be exposed. Meaning that a death blow MUST come from the BACK of the head not the FRONT like Beth’s wound.

So, how does this smaller, weaker walker with no armor almost win the fight(before Negan makes the decision to throw the fight letting Tony win)? He is going to win by being too slippery to catch! Negan takes what looks like a gas can out of the back of the truck. Then, he pours what looks like oil, not gas, over the walker. This allows the smaller, weaker walker with no armor to evade attacks and slip away. I see this as the end of the allegory relating to Beth and the Daryl Dixson spin-off.

What does this last sequence mean for Beth’s return?

First, the fact that something this detailed and exact played out during this season of Dead City gives me hope that at least the audience will see Beth at some point during season 3 of Daryl Dixson. The fact that it was Negan in particular is choosing this walker as his "champion" may indicate that Beth has been with some “gray” characters and/or groups. So, how would she have been able to navigate those groups without losing herself? It is clear from the allegory presented through the “underdog” walker that she won’t return as some ninja warrior with incredible fighting skills. Yes, I am sure she will have some fighting skills, but her key to survival will have been being “slippery”. She will have used her wits to survive much like she did at Grady. Remember her “I’m not like Michonne, Maggie or Carol” speech? She will have become a “champion” through evasion and strategy versus the warfare experienced by the other three. Another way to look at the oil being poured over the walker's head is that symbolically in the Bible oil being poured over someone’s head meant that they were “anointed” by God for a specific purpose. David was anointed as a young man to be king over Israel long before he actually became the king. Perhaps, Beth has survived because she is “anointed” to play a specific role or for a specific purpose in the TWDU.

I would love to know your thoughts on this!

#team delusional #beth greene lives #bethyl

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stillaswind · 18 days ago

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TEAM DELUSIONAL MASTER POST

I've noticed that a lot of information about Bethyl has been lost over time, so I’ve decided to gather everything I could find and compile it into one comprehensive mega dump of content.

We’re diving deep into fan theories, lost footage, rare screenshots, behind-the-scenes interviews the whole nine yards. So grab a seat, because this is gonna be one long-ass post.

MAIN POINTS ================================

was Beth and Daryl’s relationship romantic?

Beth is alive and how we know (cut footage ect.)

17 days theory

How Beth could've survived the gunshot wound

parallels and references.

CREDIT'S ===============================

Note: Some sources I won’t be able to link directly since a lot of this comes from deep dives into the Wayback Machine, but I’ll credit where I can. I’ll also keep updating and editing this as I uncover more info. If you'd prefer your info not be included in this post, just send me a DM—I'm happy to take your part down! Also one more thing a ton of this information has been stored on the youtube channel @TWDMusicBoxMystery so please check out her videos whenever you get the chance

Most of this information was originally gathered by @bethgreeneishopeunseen. Their account is currently locked, and I’m only sharing this to preserve the content in case they don’t return. Once the account is public again, I’ll take this thread down—I just don’t want to risk losing any of this valuable info in the meantime. P.S. @bethgreeneishopeunseen — KWEEN, PLEASE COME BACK!! We miss you and love you <3 You’ve gathered so much more than this thread could ever hope to cover. But if you’re not planning to return… bb please DM me the password so I can help archive everything properly. </3

================ Let’s start simple: was Beth and Daryl’s relationship romantic from the beginning? The short answer is yes. ================

the oringal episode summary for Alone, before it was changed due to backlash

Daryl and Beth's character bio's before they were changed

Norman responding to reddit post's two weeks after Coda aired

Cast and crew

Emily’s thoughts on Beth and Daryl’s changing relationship after Still (March 2014): “I do feel like now, after [Still], that Beth and Daryl know each other on a much deeper level, in an intimate way. I don’t think they feel alone the way they did before.”

Emily agrees with an interviewer at WSC on romantic feelings (March 2014): “So in this last episode, you were asking Daryl ‘how do you know there’s— you still think there’s good people out there? Why?’ And then you had a realization. Was it that he knew because of Beth? Do you know what I’m saying?” Emily Kinney: Yeah, I think she realized how much he cares about her.

“I don’t know, my theory is— I definitely think Beth was having a ro— felt romantically inclined towards Daryl. That’s the way it came across to me, at least.” Emily Kinney: Yeah, I think there’s realizing that there’s something else there.”

Greg Nicotero’s thoughts on Alone at SDCC 2014: When they pitched Season 4, they were talking about when the prison goes down and having Daryl and Beth be bunkered together. And it’s interesting because I get to see all the cuts and I see all the edits from the director’s cuts onward. And I loved the scene in the kitchen when they’re talking, and I got the sense that Daryl was starting to kind of fall in love with Beth a little.”

Emily’s thoughts on Bethyl for Insider October 2014: “Last year, I definitely felt like there was a really special connection between Daryl and Beth that happened. My take on it was that there was a very deep growing connection that could become something more romantic or could become just … you know that was my personal understanding of it. I do feel like Beth has opened up to Daryl in a way that she hasn’t with other people and I do feel like Beth has never been really in love even though you’ve seen her with the two different boyfriends. I don’t think she’s ever been like, ‘grownup in love’ in the way that you feel like someone actually understands you and in sort of that special intimate way. And I do feel like she’s been closer to that with Daryl then with anyone else.”

Emily wrote a song from Beth’s POV called Last Chance, and it’s a love song with sexual overtones.

While filming Still, Norman listened to Very Nervous and Love by J. Mascis for Daryl’s character and even pitched for the episode’s closing song.

“Beth realizes Daryl has feelings for her.” - AMC

“Okay, so they’re kind of together.” - Emily Kinney

“I’m enjoying, as an audience member, watching this..happen. - Lauren Cohan “I got the sense that Daryl was starting to fall in love with Beth a little bit.” - Greg N.

“I would say that Daryl has already found familial love. If you’re talking romantic love, I’m going to say, ‘I think so.’” - Scott Gimple

“Daryl implies that he has feelings for her.” - AMC

Media

credit to @emsee22 link to post x

30 Days Without An Accident 4x1, Daryl's "It's a damn romance novel" comment. Sure, can be played off like teasing, a little bit of jealousy. But the point is, he notices Beth's relationship with Zach. And for some reason cares enough to comment on it.

30 Days Without An Accident 4x1, the hug. Not just that there was a hug, but that they didn't end the scene with the hug. They ended the scene with Beth's sleeve falling off her shoulder and show her putting it back on, and end with their eye contact after that. If this was meant to be brother/sister, or platonic, vibes then why emphasize an erogenous zone like that? That would be creepy. The writers intended it to be romantic.

I don't find Still 4x12 to be a romantic episode, necessarily. I think that one is just building on their intimacy as friends. I do appreciate their openness with each other on the porch and there are elements of that conversation that I view as romantic (namely, Daryl's expression and nervous fiddling with the knife). However, I can understand how people view their pairing as platonic if they only base that view on this episode.

Alone 4x13 is where they really start hammering in the romance. For starters, Daryl's reaction to Beth stepping in the bear trap. Yes, of course you can say he just didn't want her to get eaten by the walker, but compare how he gets down to the ground with her, rubs her foot, and gives her his body for support - even giving her a piggyback ride - to Carol's foot cramp in 10x18 Find Me. He first eliminates the threat, then he checks on her and shows genuine concern for her injury, and offers her physical support. Daryl loves Carol, she's his best friend, but in Find Me, he just teases her and tells her that she shouldn't have come along.

Alone 4x13 when Beth stops to look at the "Beloved Father" grave, Daryl compassionately picks some flowers and lays it on top of the grave for her, to commemorate Herschel. That is not inherently romantic. He also compassionately gave Carol a Cherokee Rose when she lost Sophia. I just think it is sweet. In the same scene, Beth and Daryl hold hands (admittedly, a little awkwardly, but that is primarily on Daryl) and Beth puts her head on his shoulder.

Alone 4x13 when they are looking at the bodies that are made to look very human (although they're walkers) and Beth argues back at Daryl's joke about dolls with why it's beautiful. She looks at him and asks "Don't you think that's beautiful" and all he does is pensively stare back at her. It's a romantic cliche and the pause with the intense eye contact seems to imply that his thoughts are that she is beautiful. At the very least, he sees something in the way she thinks about the world that is beautiful.

Alone 4x13 Daryl breaks his silence thinking about telling Beth that she's beautiful with the shiptease after action patch-up tv trope with "C'mon, let's get you patched up." She sits on the table and he wraps her foot up from the bear trap.

Alone 4x13 how he watches her sing in the doorway, and then how he pushes her buttons about the music "Well there ain't no jukebox, so... keep singing"

Alone 4x13 the bridal carry romance trope into the kitchen for the cute little redneck dinner Daryl set up for Beth. Plus his excitement to show it to her, hence the "I'm going as fast as I can" before he picks up her heard outside the doorway.

Alone 4x13 dinner conversation about what changed Daryl's mind about there still being good people. Beth changed his mind. If it wasn't romantic, why couldn't he just say "you're gave me hope / you showed me there are still good people." But the teasing, the repeated asking, the smile and eye contact, the nervousness from Daryl and then the self-realizing "oh" that is more like a romantic confession than anything else. Plus the fact that the confession is interrupted, another TV trope in romance. Plus the fact that in Alone, Daryl & Beth are foils to Sasha & Bob - who we know for a fact were canon. Difference is Sasha & Bob are reunited by the end of Alone, while Beth & Daryl are separated.

Alone 4x13 he chased after her for hours, from night to day.

Alone 4x13 he was ready to kill Len for disrespecting her "Some bitch must have got you all worked up" "You lost yourself a piece of tail" "I bet it was a little one too, they don't last long out here." If Joe didn't stop the knife, I bet Daryl would have ended Len a whole lot sooner.

In 5x8 Coda, when she starts rushing back to Dawn, to say goodbye to Noah, Daryl tries to stop her.

Coda 5x8 he cries over her body

Coda 5x8 he bridal carries her body out of the hospital, sobbing

Them 5x10 he shuts down with the group. Carol knows there is more to his sadness and she is trying to understand it. She assumes Beth saved him (she did, in a way). Rick knows that Daryl lost something deeper than a friend, hence "I know you lost something back there"

================ Beth is alive, cut footage ect. ================

most of this information was posted by a locked account. i've gathered this from the wayback machine and copy and pasted it credit: @bethgreeneishopeunseen

Emily filmed throughout all of season 5, and almost none of that footage was shown onscreen or put on the DVDs as deleted scenes. In season 5, she was in 5x04, 5x07 (barely), 5x08, and 5x09 (minimally). Those episodes were filmed in early June, mid to late July, early August, and late August. She should have been finished with filming on August 29th, as that is when the bedroom scenes with TY were finished. Yet she was confirmed to have been filming from September into October.

And it isn't a few scenes. Depending how much was exactly filmed, that could be at least an episode or two worth of footage. As in bottle episodes that would explain Beth’s backstory. Here is a breakdown of the known missing spoilers:

the Rottweiler and white houses scenes (late May 2014)

included heavy security for “critical scenes”i

Included several actors, the show’s costume designer, and two major producers on the show

There were two white houses used during filming, located side by side. One was smaller, with visible burn marks on the door, while the other was a larger, plantation-style home. Both had “Do Not Mow” signs posted out front—an indicator they were active filming locations. At this point, The Spoiling Dead was highly active and well-informed, often tracking filming schedules and locations in real time. They filmed at the two properties throughout the day and that evening a white van was seen pulling right up to the steps, and Emily dressed as Beth was seen being rushed inside with two security guards. Lennie James dressed as season 5 Morgan was also photographed on set that night.

The van came to the house a second time, and afterwards Emily conveniently tweeted that she was at the movies, even though at least 15 different people saw her on set.

Now, the Rottweiler. The owner tweeted that his dog—a professionally trained acting dog—was scheduled to film soon. A few days later, he confirmed that the dog had filmed two scenes.

This is referring to the filming that took place from May 23rd to May 24th. The Walking Dead Women, a TWD Facebook page, posted a picture on May 14th, and it first surfaced via Spoil the Dead on May 12th. The walking dead rarely features animals, especially dogs the dogs used in the episodes Them, were reportedly pets of the cast, not trained animal actors. So when a Rottweiler was brought in for filming, it signaled a scene that was more intense, complex, and expensive something that required extra time and budget.

It indicates that more was being filmed at the white houses than we saw; Emily could have filmed a few scenes throughout the week. The Rottweiler 100% filmed two scenes, that we haven't seen

“More News… This House been rented again as a filming location... North Hill Street 441, Griffin/Georgia. As rumors have it… Beth was seen around that location… also the house next to it… get used often for inside filming.” In March, Google Maps updated its view of Griffin Street, providing more detail on both properties.

Emily might have spent the first few weeks of filming working at the white houses/in studio of the white houses. That would be at least an episode or two of footage then unaccounted for, and that also does not include the rest of the missing unseen spoilers related to Emily/Beth. No TV show would cut more than a day’s worth of work and not even put it on the DVD. the next instance of cut footage was another filming location not far away where the spoiling dead said they had spotted Beth for a second.

Traffic was blocked off, and security was noted as being heavy. People who came to the site reported that Steven, Lauren, and Alanna were all filming there, and all three actors were photographed at the site. Alanna was even photographed in costume as Tara from 5x01/5x02 and mentioned in a tweet still being covered in dirt and sweat. More than one walker was also seen done up.

Steven, Lauren, and Alanna all came out to take pictures with fans, as well as the producers Denise Huth and Gale Anne Hurd. It takes about eight days to film one episode, so why would the show just scrap an entire day’s worth of work?

Especially since it contained very important scenes that were being filmed out of order, hence the costume designer (for costume continuity) and producers being on set.

Those filming instances are suspect alone. Yet we also have more throughout the whole season, that were consistent. Emily was shuttled in a white van through extreme measures and security was heavy.

Through The Walking Dead Women, I also discovered two more pictures of the Pritchard property tara was spotted at:

The second picture depicts a gate says ‘Beware of the Dog’ sign.

and the weirdness continues

Chase Vasser is a former college football player who became an actor a few years ago. According to his LinkedIn, he is still based in Georgia. In the month leading up to filming at the white houses, he tweeted about being on the show. When word spread, he later recanted and clarified that he was working on another show. Then, on May 17th, a week before filming, Gale Anne Hurd tweeted, “@NeverStop_CV: I will not be on the Walking Dead! #sorryfans" He was never cast on the show.

Beth in the backseat of a Grady car (early July 2014; 5x06 filming)

Beth driving a car out of the Grady hospital/Bethfoot 1 (mid July 2014)

included gunfire and heavy security

Explosions at Grady (late July 2014)

800 walkers for the MSF and the white church (early August 2014) i will go deeper into this when i breakdown the 17 days theory article here x

Don’t f**k with me zombies (August 28th, 2014; tweet implied she would be fighting with zombies. The picture she posted also appeared to have her in make-up with faded scars) Twice Emily referred to her stitches as scars: the Inside 5x04 video and on Slabtown’s TTD. By the time Slabtown’s TTD aired, Emily had known for months about Beth’s “death” as she filmed her death scene early in August and after the filming break, filmed her scenes for 5x09 on August 28th. bethgreenewarriorprincess and I have been discussing the unseen season 5 filming spoilers for a while now. Had she filmed her scenes ahead of time, she would have filmed with scars and not just stitches, which explains why Emily likely referred to them as such instead of cuts. In one of my filming spoilers post, fabledfangirl noticed that Emily appeared to have a faded version of her cheek scar Emily posted this picture on August 28th, 2014 (X) and captioned it, “Don’t f*ck with me today. #diezombies,” and many fans at the time believed it meant she was filming. While she did film the bedroom scenes at the that time, it would not explain the #diezombies because she was not involved with any. It suggests that she filmed more scenes than we saw that day.

if you flip the picture, the mark on her face is a perfect match for Beth’s stitching placement The tilt of the hat would also hide her two forehead scars, as the gash above her eyebrow is bigger and would need more coverage. The presence of scars also help to explain why no almost pictures of Emily surfaced during season 5 filming, especially at the easily-accesible make-up trailer. Faded scars proved scenes were filmed of her surviving.

Bethfoot 1 and 2 (November 17th/18th 2014) picture of Emily in costume taken outside Grady. The picture was taken early in the morning on July 15th, 2014, and it showed Beth in clothes that weren’t her hospital scrubs. (It’s debated whether her shirt is plaid or her season 4 sweater) @sparks-of-greene a long time ago noticed the audio cart that @circled in red, pointing out that such equipment wouldn’t be moved around much, indicating that Emily was outside filming. Now, spoilers prove that Coda was filmed in early August, and that the devastating courtyard scene was filmed on August 6th. That was the only time we saw Emily outside in Beth’s season 4 costume. Whatever this picture is, it’s for something else, as in more filming.

I went back through the comments on the Facebook post with the Bethfoot picture. The woman who took the picture noticed that security was very heavy at the time:

now were at the famous sighting of Beth being spotted in Alexandria or Bethfoot 2 Emily had no reason to be at Alexandria dressed as Beth, WHEN SHE NEVER MADE IT TO THE SAFE ZONE. It was also during filming for the season finale. Emily would have been finished filming for months by that point.

instagram post Emily made and the photo of her on set we had pictures of her in normans trailer, we also had one after she was done filing with a white van outside second picture has been lost. if anyone has then please send it to me

To assume that Emily isn’t filming because she hasn’t been seen on set is a poor assumption to make. The show can hide people if it wants to, such as the actors present in Tyreese’s hallucination never being known, or Lennie James in season 5. Emily could easily have filmed in a studio or remote woodsy location during seasons 5 and 6. Season 7 filming will always be under heavy security until after the premiere, because of the finale death being a secret. There are reports already of people being arrested and filming in the studio. It would not be that difficult to sneak Emily in as well, since she’d be hidden anyway.

================

17 DAYS THEORY

================ credit @dynamicsymmetry link to post x

Here’s what we know: Beth was shot in the head. Daryl carried her outside. The last time we see her (in non-hallucination form) is in that final iconic shot of Coda.

Then in 5x09, it’s a good while later and they’re in Virginia.

The first important thing to note is that we don’t know what happened right after Coda. In 5x10 it’s established that roughly three weeks have passed since the group left Atlanta, and we know almost nothing about what happened during those three weeks. We don’t know what led to them leaving Atlanta.

We also never actually see a funeral for Beth - which is significant, because on this show pretty much everyone who’s at all a major character gets some kind of funeral/farewell. More often than not you see a cross. It’s not something that holds true in every case, there are exceptions, but those exceptions are highly situational (see: Hershel, who still got a memorial when Daryl placed the flowers on the tombstone), and in those cases we still get at least some sense of what happened to their bodies. There is - because of those things - a sense of narrative closure. It’s how this show says goodbye to people who matter. Because this show believes that goodbyes themselves matter.

We never actually saw Beth’s funeral. We have no idea what form it took, where it was, whether or not she got a cross, how people said their farewells - we got none of that. Plenty of people insist that it doesn’t matter, and there’s certainly a possibility that they’re right, just like there’s certainly a possibility that TD is wrong, but I look at the writing on the show as a whole, and what I see is that funerals are a major thematic element and have been from the very beginning, where Glenn insists that they bury their dead instead of burning them.

We saw a huge amount of Tyreese’s funeral. We never saw one second of Beth’s. Not one second. Plus if you look closely there is only one grave so it wasn't a joint funeral like some believe.

This is all to say that the lack of any on-screen funeral, while not conclusive of anything, is very strange. It is not at all in line with how this show handles death, especially not death as narratively important as Beth’s was.

The fact that we saw no funeral at all is enough - in my mind, in conjunction with a number of other things - to cast doubt on whether she had one. Because in writing like this, when something that’s almost always shown is not shown, that often (not always) indicates that it’s being purposefully obscured. Which… Why? Why would they do that?

Okay, so if she never got a funeral, what happened to her body?

This is where we grab a lot of hinty bits from a lot of places and piece them all together into something that’s admittedly messy but to my mind holds up well enough given what we have to work with. I certainly think it’s defensible as a plausibility, though obviously it’s nothing anyone can prove and I don’t think anyone would claim to be able to do so.

Beth was taken from the funeral home (probably) in the trunk of a car. Prior to that - in “Still”, the episode that really kicks off her and Daryl’s relationship (whatever you believe the nature of that relationship to be) - she shelters with Daryl in the trunk of a car in a very tense and meaningful cold open. So we already have something of an established Car Thing with this girl.

In the final shot of Coda, there’s a black car with a white cross on it in the lower left foreground - not the center of the shot, but quite noticeable, the only vehicle nearby aside from the fire engine, and we’ve been told repeatedly that nothing onscreen in this show is wasted (likely hyperbole but I’ll assume that it’s at least mostly true).

In 5x09, we see two strange and potentially very suggestive things. We see multiple shots of a (probably) female walker in a car - a walker whose face is obscured and who appears to possibly have a ponytail or something along those lines. Tyreese sees this and appears moved by it - even disturbed. The fact that we’re shown it more than once tells me that we’re meant to notice it; it’s not there for no reason. Secondly, we’re shown multiple shaky, blurry shots of the group sprinting for the vehicles we see them in later, waving guns around; they’re clearly in a state of distress, running from something. Which indicates that however they left Atlanta, it’s entirely possible that they had to leave very quickly.

Then in 5x10, the group comes upon the cars abandoned in the middle of the road.

Two things happen here that are big for me. First, there’s the (blond, blue-eyed) walker that Maggie finds locked in the trunk of the car. This appears to disturb her deeply - far more than I would expect even for something so awful, because remember that these are hardened people who have been through some real shit, and I think it’s strange that she would have such a strong reaction if there wasn’t something else going on. Plus her discomfort with the car doesn’t begin with her seeing the walker. She doesn’t even want to open the trunk at all. She’s reluctant. Then she sees the walker and she almost falls apart. Glenn has to take care of it for her.

Then there’s Daryl.

Watch Daryl when they first see the cars. There’s a tight close-up of his face, which you don’t have unless a character is feeling something significant. And in his way, Daryl appears to be just as disturbed as Maggie - if not more. He immediately announces that he’ll head off into the woods and circle round, and he doesn’t offer a reason. He just goes. At a point at which there’s every possibility that they might be about to find some life-saving supplies.

No one in the group finds either of these reactions odd. Glenn seems to implicitly understand what’s going on. He never asks Maggie what’s wrong. He just does what he has to do. Carol offers to go with Daryl; earlier in the episode he leaves the group and she says she’s going along, and when he balks she insists on coming with him. This time she offers and he says no, and she backs off immediately and never questions his reasoning. She never asks him for a reason at all.

All of this suggests that between the end of 5x08 and the beginning of 5x09, something upsetting happened that had to do with cars. And whatever it was, it seems to be primarily upsetting to the three people who had the most reason to be upset about Beth’s death: Daryl (obviously), Maggie (obviously), and Tyreese, who was feeling profoundly guilty about his plan working out the way it did when all he ever wanted to do was keep people from getting hurt.

Then we get to the infamous 800 walker extras that both the showrunner and the makeup director talked about for Season 5. That footage? Never saw the light of day. Which is extremely weird. The amount of money, time, and coordination it would’ve taken to pull that off means there’s no way it just got casually scrapped. Especially when you consider they included one- and two-minute throwaway dialogue scenes in Coda on the dvd. If something that massive was filmed, it would’ve absolutely shown up in the deleted scenes or bonus features—unless it was being hidden for a reason.

And that leads us into another case of vanished footage. The Spoiling Dead Fans discovered another filming location—a white church—but they couldn’t get a good look because the entire area was blocked off, with walls put up to hide everything going on inside. That kind of secrecy means whatever they were filming there was important. Even more suspicious? Glenn and Daryl’s actors once posted a photo on Instagram in front of a white church. That post has since disappeared.

And now here’s where things get really strange: in the TAPP trading cards for The Walking Dead, Daryl’s Season 5 card actually mentions Beth getting a proper burial… at a church. I mean—what?! When the hell did that happen? We never saw a burial. We never even got a proper scene acknowledging it. But now we’ve got leaks and official merchandise suggesting they did film it… and then poof gone.

Taken all together, here’s the very rough theory: After the group flees from Grady and Atlanta, they try to find a place to bury Beth. Along the road to Virginia, they come across a small white church and decide it’s the perfect spot for a burial. But something goes wrong A massive herd aka the 800 walker extras we were told were filmed for Season 5—shows up, forcing the group to abandon the church before they can bury her.

In the chaos, they place Beth’s body in a vacant vehicle, using it as a kind of temporary mausoleum with the intent to return and bury her properly. Since she was shot in the head, no one checks for a pulse. They assume she’s dead and has no risk of turning. But when they eventually return… the car is empty.

This would explain the moment where we see Maggie sobbing in front of an open car door, It also gives new weight to the recurring vehicle symbolism around Beth—why cars seem to trigger such intense reactions in certain characters.

We don’t know if Beth turned, or if she was saved. Personally, I like the idea that Morgan found her. There are photos of him and Emily Kinney (Beth) filming together at the two small white houses— that supports this theory.

And if this theory is true, it also explains why Maggie and Daryl didn’t go with Rick, Glenn, Michonne, and Tyreese to Noah’s community. They were out searching for Beth’s body. Offscreen. there's a scene later next season, that supports this when Daryl and Aaron are out scouting for new people. They come across a blonde female walker tied to a tree, and for some reason, Daryl checks her face. Why? Maybe he thought—just maybe—it was Beth. because they never got to actually bury her.

============== how Beth could've survived the gunshot wound ==============

credit: @v0id-bellarke link to post x

this isn’t a theory really, but this is a post using medical knowledge proving that Beth can survive her head shot. I’m in college at the moment to get my pre recs done for EMT/Paramedic. And I’m in a program where we have free Paramedic training that the Paramedic company offers, and I’ve been with the program going on a year this coming summer. So I’ve retained a lot of knowledge the past year.

Remember when Dr.Edwards told Beth when she woke up from her coma ” You fractured your wrist, and sustained a superficial head wound"

For those who don’t know what a superficial head wound is, its a survivable injury located in your skull or the brain. And it can vary in any kind of injury. I think that was the biggest foreshadowing that Beth survives her head shot. I’ve seen other amazing theories getting into awesome detail, but we just gotta look at the obvious sometimes to see what’s going on. I analyzed her head shot, and it is survivable.

^^^First lets look at her entry and exit wound. By the looks of it she was shot by a 9mm pistol. Her entry wound in located off center to left and is probably the size of a nickle. And then her exit wound is probably the width of two quarters. That’s not big at. It does look bigger than it actually is because the blood around wound in her hair. And there is barely any brain matter coming out. Mostly blood.

Ok, so I had a use a different picture of her getting shot so I could get a better view of it. Her entry wound starts in the frontal lobe, and follows through in the parietal lobe and exits there. Yes, this is survivable. The thing that kill us if we get shot is if the bullet penetrates the brain stem. Which controls all your vitals, swallowing, sleep, nervous system, temperature, sense of balance. Many people who attempted suicide and shot themselves in the head have survived, because the bullet did not penetrate their brain stem. I will get into how her head wound will effect her in a minute.

I drew you guys a chart to show you the general idea where her brain parts are located. Sorry for the crappy drawing, and its more than likely a little off. But this is just for you get an understanding I want you to feel the back of your head. Do you feel that little dip on the nape of your head? That’s the area where your brain stem is. Now look at the picture of Beth. There is no way that it is possible that the bullet penetrated her brain stem, it is physically impossible by the looks of it. The bullet exit wound is even right above where her pony tail hair tie is. Your brain stem in not located that high up.

So you see where she was shot was in the Frontal Lobe and Parietal Lobe. Based on where she was shot, is survivable but she will have some brain damage. Usually after getting shot in this area you will be a temporary coma, how long it is depends on how bad the shot was, the person, etc. But if she wakes up, it looks like she’s going to have speech problems, lacking sensation in touch so she will have trouble identifying different textures, minor blindness ( won’t be able to see long distances ), emotional issues, and academic problems. So she’ll probably have problems reading, speaking articulately, basic math skills.

Side Note: This would make sense with Beth’s possible speech impairment, on Morgan’s wall No Killed.In.Action on BEF. Beth and BEF do sound similar. So this may be the way she pronounces her name and makes sense of it.

My mother is also a Nurse and she has said based on where she was shot, it is survivable. And I hate how I couldn’t find a picture of gif of Beth’s arm shot when she dies and she has a pool of blood around her arm. Ya’ll know what I’m talking about. But anyways, based on memory, her bleeding was very slow, trickling and dark. If her wound was fatal is would be an artery bleed. Which is large amounts of bright red blood bleeding out of you so fast it looks like a sprinkler. Also, I noticed when Daryl was carrying her outside to Maggie, he blood stopped. This is a good sign. Because that means her body functions are still working and her blood clotted to stop the bleeding. If she was really dead, the blood would still be pouring out, drenching her hair, getting all over Daryl’s arms.

So a medical perspective her head shot is survivable. Unfortunately we don’t know how long she’ll be unconscious, and she’ll have brain damage.

credit @twdmusicboxmystery link to post x

gunshot wounds: ear to ear - FATAL. Upwards through chin - 95% FATAL. Directly between eyes: FATAL.

He also said the most survivable gunshot wounds were those high up on the forehead, because often they did not even enter the brain at all.

Also, I am a resident of Tucson, AZ, where Congress woman Gabrielle Giffords was shot on January 8, 2011 while speaking to a group of her constituents in a grocery store parking lot - this happened about 2 miles from my home. “Gabby” Giffords was shot from approx 3 ft away in the back of the head and the bullet exited out the front of her forehead, the opposite of Beth’s gunshot wound. Gabby Giffords is still very much alive today and still an active political lobbyist. I will include two links - the first is to a YouTube interview from about 3 years after the accident. At about 3:50, her husband, astronaut Mark Kelly, explains that Gabby has aphasia, which is a difficulty at times processing language and thoughts into words and is very common in brain injuries to the upper left side. another really good post by @apocalypse-married link x

parallels and references I cannot add anymore images to this thread, so i will be making a second post here in a few days and ill add the link here so its easy to find :) credit's

@twdmusicboxmystery link to post x link to youtube x

@v0id-bellarke link to post x

credit @dynamicsymmetry link to post x

wayback machine copy and pasted credit: @bethgreeneishopeunseen

@emsee22 link to post x

@apocalypse-married link x

If anyone would like their content or information removed, please don’t hesitate to let me know. My goal with this compilation is simply to archive everything in one place so it can be easily accessed by fellow Bethyl shippers—and maybe even help others understand where Team Delusional was really coming from.

That said, the last thing I want to do is upset or take away from any of the original creators. PLEASE go like and support the original posts—everyone involved is incredibly talented and deserves full credit for their work.

If you have anything you'd like added to the archive, feel free to message me! I'd love to include it.

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