sweatertheman

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obligations, guilt, and the inherent catharsis of saying fuck

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* FEAR

without frames!

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To give credit to suselle, while the writing might not end up being stellar, if it were to become canon it'd be an explicitly lesbian relationship in what's by all intents and purposes a mainstream game despite being indie developed. While the fans are a little annoying, that's still huge. Normalising a relationship between two girls for younger audiences is an amazing thing

(I don't disagree with your thoughts for the record. I'm just saying like. Suselle being canon might not be satisfactory for true susie appreciators but it'd be a net positive overall imo)

Man I’m not ~representationbrained~ enough to gaf about that lol. If you want a better done lesbian teenager relationship luz and amity owl house do that. Representation does not offset bland writing with flimsy bases and it feels almost patronizing to make the one relationship that is explicitly demonstrably homosexual inoffensive and lame and stagnant.

Alphys and Undyne are suselle but not shit, given at least there is the implication that undyne is aware of and considerate of alphys’ self esteem issues and suicidal tendencies, adding a layer of complexity and emotional intimacy and earnestness, and Undertale is similarly T rated.

My 1st priority is tell a good story. Rep is better when it’s backed by that rather than existing for the sake of existing. Ssa people want good stories too. That’s the reason why tumblrs woke jerkoff stories where everyone is queer trans demiflux polyamorous grey sexual with did and 3 sets of pronouns per character bio ultimately flop and have no audience. A compelling character will always defeat a maximum representationbrained one.

And like you say its a disservice to the character of susie and I will act smug and superior about it bc many people claim to love her but still clean up her harder edges, downplay her gnc and dysfunctional coping mechanisms, and are hostile to real women who share traits with her aka being rude, defensive, “masculine” which I know from firsthand experience … so like. What do I care what they think.

I (based and cultured) know in my heart kris is a very gnc female person who discovered bisexuality via a baby crush in Noelle and is potentially experiencing it again via Susie and lesbian krusie and lesbian kriselle OBLITERATE susienoelle from my bisexual woman perspective on what I want in yuri so. lol

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I've fallen for the ralsusie propaganda

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i really want ralsei to have billy goat scruff he doesnt know how to get rid of because daddy gaster never taught him to shave or whatever cammyboiG said

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castletown retirement home

inspo:

continuing my pursuit of being their biggest advocate

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battered and bruised

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I definitely enjoy Susie's and Ralsei's relationship much much more than hers and Noelle's. But on the topic of predicting where the plot will go, I am more on the Suselle side rather than Ralsusie (knowing Toby the way I do, I don't think he'll necessarily have the two of the girls just turn at the screen and say "we're dating", but I expect at least clear intent from them to commit to the relationship)

Speaking of committing, the way I see their relationship right now, despite of how Noelle has 10 more obvious crush on Susie, I think Susie already shows more committment to the relationship than her.

First off, Susie does show a crush on her in the hospital. Whether she is shy in front of Rudy or she is genuinely making up a defense mechanism (is interesting, but) is irrelevant to my point.

I suspect that at the moment, Noelle takes her own kindness for granted, and is still one leg in the dream land of "Oh Angel, my dream girl spending time with me, it must be a miracle" - and she is expecting to be at the receptive end of the relationship. I think the next step would be her to realise the she has to commit, and that she has something that she can offer Susie.

Regarding your prophecy analysis, it is a interesting thought, but I wouldn't go writing off Suselle out of it yet. There are 2 views to consider:

One, the prophecy seems vague, and at times mildly contradictory, and it could be that we are working off wrong assumptions (or that the prophecy is vague to allow multiple alternative ways to fulfill it (or that it is vague to allow multiple ways to fulfill it at different time periods)). Point is, the plot could turn around on us and make it that Susie and Noelle coming together IS defying a prophecy. Hypothetically.

Two: Noelle's line:

Maybe Susie will somehow end up thinking that the relationship wouldn't be normal, natural, if it's prophecised. But Noelle will ensure that the ferris wheel doesn't matter.

Since you said that you have a bias against Suselle, I thought to ask for you to elaborate why you think it is less likely than we think.

I don't interpret that bit at the hospital to be necessarily indicative of a crush given she immediately goes "sucks for her lmao", i see it as susie having a pair of eyes and being surprised that a girl like noelle who is pretty, superficially appears as if she has her shit together, is rich, and is a top student is not already going to the festival with someone. It's an easy assumption to make that people would be swooning for such a bachelorette, but following it up with the "wow that sucks for her" dismisses intent and is especially notable because rudy is obviously insinuating "ask her out"

I find it funny that you say it reflects "commitment" given this is the same chapter where susie holds ralsei's face with her bloody hand and tells kris that her dream is to be able to stay friends with them and ralsei because that reads sooooo much more as commitment than just acknowledging that Noelle has a lot of qualities that should have ppl lining up to ask her on dates lol :D

I think the prophecy being minorly inconsistent with Lord of the Hammer and Dragon Blazers is simply adaptational differences, esp given gerson emphasizes stories retold. After all, all of the beats that Gerson mentions describing Lord of the Hammer are consistent with the prophecy save for minor wording differences or reinterpretations.

Ultimately though? You may be right. If that is the case, I consider that bad writing. I consider that an atrocious setup for a relationship because it's bland, lacks emotional depth even 4/7ths into the game, is mostly skippable. I would be shocked and disappointed in Toby for writing something so boring, especially with everything surrounding it that is compelling and has a lot of emotional depth. Before it used to be like "oh, it's just two chapters, a lot can change in five chapters" but now we are past half the game with very little progression or change in tone. If he wants to turn things around hes running out of time!!! (Though with ral and susie the emotional stakes have risen every chapter and their relationship keeps developing at a pace that makes sense... which makes it even more shocking that it's happening with one relationship, and not the other...)

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what do you think about the theory/interpretation that Noelle was supposed to be the 'second hero' monster girl, and Susie is a separate part of the prophecy?? I personally think it might be a red herring to knock Susie off her footing since she's been warming up to the title of legendary hero, and maybe someone uses the ambiguity to say she was never meant to be a hero in the first place and get in her head. I don't really see Noelle in the silhouette and I don't think Ralsei would lie about Susie being one of the three, but... what do you think?

Total bs and a cope lol. My friend went and checked the sprite names in the game’s data since we weren’t sure if it was meant to represent the ACT button or the rude buster icon, and it’s deadass titled “rude buster”

You’re also right ral has no reason to lie, and if Noelle was the second hero why is angel imagery constantly hammered for her? Why does susie recognize the girl as herself? Why does Ral say she has the heart of a hero? Why does Gerson tell her she has hope (the hero is the girl with her heart crossed with hope)? How does Noelle have her heart crossed with hope? If anything she’s despairing

I get it Noelle Stan #4859 I just made up in my head to argue against, you love your deer and you want her to be one of the heroes real bad, but sometimes you really are just pulling theories out of your duodenum to complicate things for no reason

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what do you think about the theory/interpretation that Noelle was supposed to be the 'second hero' monster girl, and Susie is a separate part of the prophecy?? I personally think it might be a red herring to knock Susie off her footing since she's been warming up to the title of legendary hero, and maybe someone uses the ambiguity to say she was never meant to be a hero in the first place and get in her head. I don't really see Noelle in the silhouette and I don't think Ralsei would lie about Susie being one of the three, but... what do you think?

Total bs and a cope lol. My friend went and checked the sprite names in the game’s data since we weren’t sure if it was meant to represent the ACT button or the rude buster icon, and it’s deadass titled “rude buster”

You’re also right ral has no reason to lie, and if Noelle was the second hero why is angel imagery constantly hammered for her? Why does susie recognize the girl as herself? Why does Ral say she has the heart of a hero? Why does Gerson tell her she has hope (the hero is the girl with her heart crossed with hope)? How does Noelle have her heart crossed with hope? If anything she’s despairing

I get it Noelle Stan #4859 I just made up in my head to argue against, you love your deer and you want her to be one of the heroes real bad, but sometimes you really are just pulling theories out of your duodenum to complicate things for no reason

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You have very interesting thoughts! I really appreciate getting to see into where your mind is at regarding various issues, despite often disagreeing with you.

I'm probably what you would consider a "wokie", although I try to maintain some level of self awareness (you know, in the same way Joyce Messier does.) But regardless, I do try to seek out differing opinions now and again, make sure my morals and ideas aren't becoming too calcified.

In particular I have to admit that despite being transfem myself, a lot of your criticisms of the broader community do echo thoughts I've had on occasion. Sometimes these opinions are associated so called 'truscum?' But even then, that community has its own problems.

Although I will say, despite the fact that being trans can get you clout or protection in a few obscure online spaces, the fact that I have a very real chance of being lynched in the next few years does make it hard to appreciate that small bit of 'privilege.' But I'll try all the same, for there are always those out there who have it far worse than you!

I suppose I just wanted to say thank you for speaking your mind. Being on the fringes certainly does seem to offer some sort of freedom.

Perhaps I'll ever gain the courage to try it myself one of these days! But until then, at least I may speak my thoughts via anon.

First of all: my sincerest thank you for the diplomatic approach, even with disagreement.

I'll jump right into it, since I have a lot of things to say lol.

I was "truscum" when I identified as a man. Transition was very much a fix to better mesh in socially because growing up where I did I was often asked if I was a woman or man, treated as undesirable and an alien by peers both male and female, and generally addressed as some sort of child that would eventually grow out of it and become a "proper woman". The reasoning behind it was basically, if everyone is going to call me a man, may well be one. I didn't pick one of the stupid names you see everywhere online like Sock or Kai or whatever, and found those people embarrassing. My goal was to just be Some Guy. Already when I considered transition in 2016-2018 there was this conception that "truscum" was bigotry and had no place in the community, the cult mentality was in full swing like it continues to be today. So even by having the thoughts you have and are expressing here, you are already a bigot, per a chunk of your own community, and this has been true for almost a decade. What is that if not control?

as I mentioned previously in passing in another ask, in 2019 I went to a psychiatrist, got diagnosed with autism, and got remitted to a geneticist who spotted the clinical signs of Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome and over a couple months it was differential diagnosed until confirmed. Grieving began, I finally had an explanation for a bunch of things I chalked up to just being weird but all of this meant there was no curing it, no solution.

It was in the process of that grief that I was introduced to radical self acceptance and all I knew shattered because I immediately noticed how different the approach was with chronic illness to how it was about minority identities in these spaces. Where the line of thought with acceptance of disabilities is "that’s how the cards fell, I had no choice over this but I have agency over how I navigate the world with my condition, it is not a reason to self isolate and wallow" what I had been exposed to with transition was denial all the way, denial of your birth sex, denial of any person that didn’t see you exactly as you demanded, denial of anatomical terms, denial to the point that there were guides on how to lie to your doctors to get a gender dysphoria diagnosis and how to threaten your parents with suicide to get them to take you by force. Every time there was any questioning, immediate hostility, every small suggestion of unhappiness with being a stereotypical gender conforming man/woman a sign that you're trans and you have to transition NOW NOW NOW. Also how people absorbed in wokism reacted to disability (because many of them claim both a disabling mental illness or physical condition and a gender identity); the same intense denial, almost basking in the suffering of illness, insisting that it means you can never work, or lead a fulfilling life, constant self victimization— the antithesis to the holistic approach to disability, but very much in line with the approach to gender.

Then after having to see vitriol from fandom over anything from the ideological to what ship you enjoy- all after having been kicked out of the house by my mother and navigating migration and bunking with a friend- I just… grew up. I had to exist with normies and challenge my previous conceptions of them. Here you’re made to be paranoid of any random person. Everyone is a potential bigot out to get you. I was forced to contend with the fact this is a lie. Most people don’t want to be hateful and aren't. They are convinced to be hateful by appealing to the well being of the people they love (this was how Nazi germany happened— people feared for their families going hungry because of economic stress and the Nazi party simply gave them an ethnic group to scapegoat and a solution to their plight), or don’t commit to hate in any way that matters and can be swayed. Most are simply ignorant. The truth is that normies don’t really believe in transgenderism in any significant way and they’re “agender” by those terms, in that they don’t have a gender identity at all- they look at their birth sex and what society expects of it and act accordingly. The way they operate is “oh yeah that's that man who wants to be a woman/woman who wants to be a man, because that person is nice to me and suffers mentally I will call them how they asked so they don’t suffer.” most “neutral” people to try to accommodate you the best they can (often clumsily but with good intentions).

It works the same with disability; a social contract: please accommodate my condition and I in turn will do what is within my reach to inconvenience you the least possible. That social contract flies out the window the minute you are disrespectful, entitled, threatening, violent etc. Being an asshole is an excellent way to confirm the negative biases of people who are prejudiced AND to get neutral parties to not care about your plight. Ignorance is also not necessarily violence. Unfortunately you have no control over every person on earth. You cannot know, or dictate, how you are perceived and spoken about when you're not there. To obsess with doing so- not just that the normies have to respect your pronouns in speech but also that they have to 100% fully see you as indistinguishable from your target sex and any deviance from that means they want to kill you- will disturb them and come across as a severe over-reach. People will refer to you as your agab when you're not there. People will know you're different. Tough luck; to anguish about that causes both apprehension from them and will make you spiral with self obsession. The normies have no time or reason to care about your gender dysphoria unless you're sympathetic.

Finally, I'm not convinced by your lynching comment at all. The first reason is "boy moding": transfems KNOW to act in accordance to masculine gender roles to reap the benefits of male privilege, and I don't doubt a bunch of them would just do that under any real threat. The second reason is more detailed.

I'm going to assume, because of tumblr demographics, that you're a white person from the United States. There is this constant rhetoric about genocide and violence around transgenderism that, when you scrutinize it, is not real. it's not!! So I made math for you. Let's start with this sensationalist headline here "2021 deadliest year for transgender people" that once you scroll down says a number of deaths: 47, and another headline that claims a second, slightly higher number: 56.

now, let's start nitpicking from the language itself. Record transgender homicides sounds horrific until you read the actual number: 47. 47 is also the homicide number, not specifically the number of homicides motivated by hate. So, all deaths. Drug related, violent spats, gang violence, etc. Double the trans people murders sounds terribly concerning until you read the totals: 29 to 56. So how many transgender women and black transgender women existed in the US in 2021? let's see:

Here we have the distribution for adults and younger zoomies, like you'd see on tumblr dot com and probably the demographic a lot of the activists here belong to. Now, the way you calculate the rate of people per number of something is by dividing the number you want the rate of by the total population and then multiplying it by the base you want to find. So if you want to find the rate of murdered transgender people with these numbers, you'd do 47/ the number of tw you want to account for * 100.000 to find the rate of murders (again, JUST murders- not hate crimes) per 100.000 transwomen in the US.

So I did it-- And compared it to cursory data found on google of homicides of women in the US in 2021 (all information from google first page, very easy to find):

So, all rates pulled, you're at worst slightly under rate of murder as afab women, a smaller rate than even the US base homicide rate, and if you're white a basically microscopic rate. It's likelier you would get killed for being a male white person sealing a drug deal in the hood than you are to be murdered- not even hate crimed just murdered as a white transwoman.

Why the emphasis on race? Because race in the United States intersects with poverty and all the associated crimes of poverty like drug dealing, prostitution and gun violence. Let's look at these two other charts:

Initially alarming, right? Until you take into account this is the total number of homicides since January of 2017. It has been eight years since then, and the amount of transgender murders is 1)disproportionately toward black tw, who are the demographic that is often a former gay man and is probably doing prostitution and being affected by gun violence, and 2) not even 500- aka not even one eight of the total amount of murdered women in the united states in just 2021. Not to mention, compare the rate of gun deaths on black people vs white.

Every murder is a tragedy, but none of this is indicative of the sensationalist headlines. If you're anything other than a black trans woman in an impoverished area of the United States offering full service sex work, your rate of homicide by all causes is vastly below the U.S base rate.

Finally, I decided to look up if there were stats specifically for hate crimes and found this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender

As you can see, every victim of a distinct hate crime directly linked to being transgender is named and their case described, even with the list dating back to the 90s. You cannot do this with femicides (misogynistic hate crimes) because there's so many of them there is no room. In this article from November 2024, it was estimated every ten minutes worldwide a woman is killed, half of them in intimate partner violence motivated by misogyny. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157386 Most of these cases happen in Africa, or in war zones. They do not pertain to me exactly. The closest stat I have to my existence in Latin America to show is Mexico, where ten women are killed on average every day in a misogynistic hate crime.

why, then, do you earnestly believe you are gonna be lynched? Because of a cult recruitment tactic: fear indoctrination.

Being in the community, how many times have you heard that detransitioners are a threat to transpeople everywhere? That tomorrow you're gonna get rounded and thrown into camps (Ironically, something already happening to Latinos via ICE)? That every woman who doesn't bend to your every whim wants you dead and is thinking about you with disgust? How many inoffensive social faux passes are exaggerated into being deadly violence? If you are afraid, you seek safety in the in-group and retreat from the world.

Now, this is not to say that nothing will happen or that people cant be assholes. I am not a victim of a femicide or know one (thank goodness) But I have been harassed, groped, cat called, chased around in cars several times... But I cannot let that impede me from GOING OUTSIDE. I have to implement measures of self protection, like every woman on the planet; after all, 1 in 3 women worldwide will experience some manner of misogynistic violence in their lifetime. Similarly, I have been scorned for being gnc and gnc is scrutinized harshly in amab people, because to associate with the woman-things is to debase yourself below your status for a lot of conservatives.

That's Just How The Cards Fell. Resilience is necessary, and resilience also includes being able to bounce back from the smaller things.

Thank you for reading, and thank you for expressing your thoughts on anon and being so civil. : ) I hope anything new here is enriching, or at least something interesting to disagree with. Have a good day!

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Mane Ax - Beginner's ax forged from the mane of a dragon whelp.

[Commission Info!]

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I figured out how to draw ralsei thank God

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Raised for prophecy.

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sooo what happened to releasing the suselle video before 3&4 came out?

...or did you lie about your deadline on purpose so you can present "evidence" from chapters 3&4 as counterpoints and the respondents not having the chance to argue with you?

if you use any content from chapters 3&4 in your response video or to "disprove" your respondents arguments, that's 100% cheating and I'm gonna disregard everything you say and assume you did so on purpose because you thought it'd give you an edge lmfao

-an observer 😁

Okay so, you're gonna take the most bad faith interpretation of a missed deadline just so you have an excuse to disregard whatever we say? Lmfao, please. We got busy, as people do sometimes, but we're still working on the follow-up where we will respond to any worthwhile points made during the challenge WITHOUT looking at 3 and 4. In fact, we'd already finished the script a while ago! You, on the other hand, are acting extremely petty about it, months later, and are doing so on anon because you want to save face.

Also, for your information, while we did miss the deadline on the response video, we were able to respond to many of the counterpoints offered by the Suselle community over on Camille's Harem.