#//he's kinda the epitome of society glorifying the military

[mylifeatwar]

Book 2, Chapter 5, Page 5

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Hey Everyone,

Back to our favorite Soldiers of Fortune, who appear to be a little worse for wear after busting two Pitts and fighting a turbo Limb. Don’t worry Element Shitkicker, you’re almost home!

As some of our fans are noticing, it appears that neither the Free Market nor the Allied Principalities of Dhuvalia are completely ready for a modern war, though they fall short in different ways. While both sides are starting to realize it, the real question is: who will properly adapt first?

Thanks for reading,

– Luther out

Comment Text Follows:

Arthaxas234 - So in terms of our world’s modern military hardware which nation is the most innovative or more likely to win ?

Darkkismeth - I think, this will be a race, who adapts first. On one hand, you have the marketeers, who are hiring mercs, therefor bringing in their art of warfare to them. Bringing back the example of using mercs to train a army properly. On the other hand, you have the Dhuvs, who are already bringing in visual stealth systems and have researchers, who knwo how to create new devices for the battlefield. And the professional soldiers of the Dhuv army will soon get their chance, like in the changing of european armies in history.

Arthaxas234 - That’s true. But can Free Market mercs really rise to the challenge that is Dhuvalia? I mean have their mercs ever fought in a serious war like our worlds WW2 or are they only experienced in urban conflicts or guerrilla warfare? While hardware is a serious advantage,it’s also the experience and genius of the men operating the machinery and even planning tactics. For now the Dhuvalians have the advantage in tech with their rail-guns and cloaking fields and prosperous farmlands. This raises the question: Why doesn’t either side just ally with another country such as Ghanatatar.?

SteelRaven - The Free Market forces seem to do well in small scale conflict (ambush earlier, these raids) but lacked the origination and resources to go toe to toe with a actual army (why they need to raise founds from investors, to raise ‘their’ army) While the only major conflict the Dhuvs have mention has been the ‘impossible wars’ which we know nothing about other than the hints that it’s what led to the band on atomic research.

Arthaxas234 - If that’s the case then why doesn’t the Free Market use hit and run tactics more efficiently? For example raid and raze key Dhuvalian outposts,using a new type of compact,lightweight state-of-the-art LIMBS. These LIMBS wills be outfitted with high-end cloaking tech and medium level artillery. One of these LIMBS would get completely destroyed,but say a squadron of 5 or more could easily spy and gather information and if needed destroy outposts and settlements. Really makes you wonder if the Marketeers really research and reverse engineer fallen Dhuv LIMBS.

Tiwaz - They don’t do that because they can’t. They most likely do not have yet any light LIMB unit they can put to such use. Not to mention that they do not have high-end cloaks, else they would not be so stunned with Dhuvalians using it. In short, Mercs don’t have the tech so it caught them stunned. Neither they apparently really have artillery. Reverse engineering is another issue, it is not simple and fast. It will be months, more likely years before one salvaged LIMB turns into ready built and integrated new LIMB with integrated tech. That is, if Mercs HAD means to do so. They are bunch of mercenary companies, not sovereign state. That is what is their handicap. Dhuvalia is sovereign state with all the bells and whistles. Completely different kind of beast. Mercs are unlikely to possess LIMB-factories and research complexes that could churn out what they need, they have to rely on someone else doing their stuff and pay for it.

folti - They did the raiding part earlier, until they get got ambushed by the stealth limbs. Their problem is, that the Free Marketer mercs’ prior combat experience comes from guarding industrial and other sites in the planet’s no-man’s land against other lightly armed opponents, who used ambushes and raiding as their main tactics. And as hardcore libertarians, their equipment comes from the lowest bidder, so it’s quite sub standard, and most of the obsolete compared to other nation states’ equipment. The Dhuvalians are somewhat the opposite, they have technology wise advanced equipment, but they are constrained by obsolete tactics and doctrine, stemming from the fact that they haven’t had any major conflicts for a long time, and their military doctrine changed to a somewhat symbolic combat between their nobility, who holds onto the more “prestigious” combat arm, the LIMB piloting, and the rest of the military made from commoners, who are more or less limited to support roles and garrison duty. Kinda like what happened with the Latin American Indian societies, and the pre-Mongol invasions Japanese society. Both had a rather rude awakening, when they had to deal with foreign invaders who didn’t care about their rules of combat. (the Japanese case is more similar as they weren’t as behind the mainlanders technically as the Incas were, but they Mongol doctrine had them beaten both cases, and it was only the typhoons that sunk the invasion fleet that saved them) So the above led to a conflict between two powers, who were woefully unprepared for the kind of war they have to fight.

V-Mink - It’s worth pointing out that we’ve seen the local chief of the IRB studying war theory and practice, particularly the military ‘classics’. I think he said ‘relearning war.’ There’s at least one person in the Free Market taking this seriously enough to realize that this is not a brushfire or a minor operation, but something much larger and game-changing.

Arthaxas234 - Now that you mention it,this whole war seems a bit sketchy. I mean like Betsy Ray mentioned they’re basically just guarding some fields. It’s not like Dhuvalia is trying to conquer the Free Market or anything. Plus the whole purchase of these farming lands seems like a buyer beware scam. It’s like the classic enlarge your member scam. Any experienced netizen knows that its just colorful pills but a newbie wouldn’t know. For all we know the Dhuvalian noble that sold his lands was probably looking for a quick buck or even trying to manipulate the Dhuvs and Marketeers against each other so that demands for his lands crops would increase. This war seems to be nothing more than a case of bad communication and culture clash on both sides.

Sazuroi - There were some hints that “something of interest” is below those fields, though Dhuvalia is the kind of country that would fight a small war just because of of a legal issue. The beginning of this war was some Free Market investor buying the land they are currently fighting on from the Dhuvalian gouveneur, but he was not authorized to sell any land to outsiders and deposed to be sent to the frontlines as a punishment, as we found out in one of the early Dhuvalia scenes. However, there are unexplained, apparently non-military underground buildings and the Dhuvalian leadership seems to care a little too much about what seems to be a plot of farmland.

tkg - I have to say that I like this page. The last few pages have been great but this one is better because it epitomizes he growth of the main characters in a band of brothers sort of way.They went from being absolutely expendable two-dimensional characters to full-out three dimensional characters that the readers now care about because although they are expendable, their ends have emotional weight. good stuff.

Hornet - Hmm.. You know statically most auto accidents happen within 5 miles of home…

Arthaxas234 - I see your point on their sub standard equipment and lack of serious war experience beyond small scale conflicts. Since the Free Market of basically a voluntary city state,that basically means that entire parts 0f TreadHaven are basically corporate enclaves(imagine companies like Microsoft or Coco-Cola creating their own cities). So that would mean that entire districts would go towards one specialized corporate venture. A whole district for arms manufacturing,another district for electronics and so on. However since the Free Market seems to be popular for its merc companies,you would think that some of the more competent ones would brush up on tactics,training and even arms production if a munitions company is one of their subsidies. This proves the main disadvantage if an anarchic-capitalist state. Nothing really gets funded unless it can turn a nice profit margin. Mercenary work is probably a good job in the Market but not a completely vital industry. Whereas Dhuvalia seems to glorify being a warrior and even dying the warriors death. I can’t even imagine their tech industry when you consider that the comic has said that most Free Marketeers are illiterate and as such need special User Interfaces to operate certain equipment. Also like an earlier commenter said,The Free Market most likely takes the artificial approach;they train their LIMB users most likely through simulations ,while Dhuvalia actually uses real life factors and military drills to train theirs. So wouldn’t the obvious solution for the Free Market to so much as come out of this conflict intact is to at least broker an alliance between all major arms and security companies to host the Free Markets first formal War Council. Who knows maybe they can actually come up with some winning tactics instead of screwing each other over for a profit.

folti - Free Marketeers popular for their mercs is probably limited. As they might used for the same “Guard installations in lawless areas” and as forces to fight limited bushwars where involving the nation’s military is politically unfeasible. Both their training and operations doctrine shows the short term thinking you outlined, as they are seriously lacking in combined arms tactics, and institutional knowledge for larger operations, something your military’s officers should be trained rigoriously, even if it’s rather expensive. Like in the real world, there are simulators for it, starting with the old tabletop game Kriegspiel. But to keep the institutional knowledge alive, you’d have to have exercises regularly. And finally, the way people get to the command positions are only partially based on merit, and partially based on their financial background, as the number of company shares dictates who gets what position. Which can lead to a rich, but incompetent guy getting a leadership position. (granted getting a rich but incompetent guy getting leadership position due to be nobility isn’t much better. Except that Dhuvalia’s martial traditions means they are better educated, and if they are not full of themselves, keep some competent people around as advisors)

Arthaxas234 - This also leas to another question. If the Free Market is desperate for farmlands to produce new foodstuff why don’t they simply sea stead. Is that a concept i this universe? Have they already been built?

Kasper -  I don’t think they’re desperate for farmland. They bought some farmland, and the Dhuvs tried to evict them sans refund. Someone crunched the numbers, and concluded that it would pay off to fight for the land. Remember, they don’t have to defeat Dhuvalia, just hurt Dhuvalia enough for them to cede the land. From a corporate viewpoint, this is perfectly logical. Alas, Dhuvalia preaches rights and honour over profit margins, and will throw away a lot of lives and resources to maintain the status quo.

folti - Land reclamation is expensive, and you’ll have to get the soil for it somewhere too. There is a good reason, that even here in the real world, it’s used only at places where the real estate prices are already high, or the locals have more money than sense, like Dubai.

CaptEndo - This is a small war. It involves one Nation State acting against one Mega Corporation with several smaller corporations involved as contractors, specifically our favorite Mercs. The amount of resources a nation state can commit are likely way out of proportion to what a Mega-Fun-Foods can commit, certainly in terms of technology. The one thing most likely we can count on is the people on the ground whose lives are on the line being the first to adapt to changing realities, and the ones least burdened by a chain of command and traditions are likely to be the most successful. That favors the mercs. It’s about the only thing that does.

Arthaxas234 - When you mentioned adapting technology,this made me think of something. If this war is putting serious financial strain on 1st Investment Recovery Battalion,then they would be desperate to find any way to save money. Then why not simply create “drone LIMBS”? Imagine the predator drones we use today to conduct sieges on terrorist villages,then imagine them marching across the farmlands. Off course they’d probably need to charge/be maintained and repaired in the FUSAS,but then the only real people out there would be engineers and technicians and maybe the occasional corporate tactics leader. Also Capt. Endo,your comment on the people on the ground leaves me wondering. In a battlefield filled with mechs who can take entire underground fortresses on their own,what’s the point of having foot soldiers who’ll basically become smears in the dirt?

SteelRaven - Looks at MLaW’s LIMBS the same way as real world Battle Tanks and you will answer most of your questions. Drones are still limited and you will always need boots on the ground to go where your armor cannot.

folti - The LIMBs didn’t took any underground fortresses, those were the Bulls(who are an underground siege specialists, pretty much useless for anything else), supported by your standard infantry. Drone LIMBs come with a lot of problems, the current real world airborne drones don’t have to deal with. Unlike the air, the ground is much more complex environment, where you have to deal with obstacles, target identification (enemy? friendly? neutral? civilian?) and major fog of war issues. These means that the AI would have to be really advanced, which raises it’s costs greatly, or you have to remote control it, in which case you have to deal with problems like reliable communications between the pilots/controllers and the vehicles, and what to do, when the comm link is broken. Compared to this, you can always hire some cheap humans from the Stacks, who can be trained to be acceptable pilots in a few months, very cheaply. Modern airborne drones are sidestepping these problems, because they are airborne (though that has it’s own limitations, because most of them are quite blind compared to piloted planes, thus they are only fly in restricted, or very low traffic airspace), and because they are only used against enemies who lack any considerable anti-air and electronic warfare capabilities. PS: “we” the west don’t hold villages under siege with drones. they are only used for monitoring the villagers’ activities and occasionally bomb a mud hut or a Toyota Hilux. And hope that your killed only the “bad” guys.

Arthaxas234 - Also sorry for the double post,but please explain small war. What would you consider a huge war between the Free Market and Dhuvalia to be?

folti - In a larger conflict, the free marketeers would have been partially crushed already, as Dhuvalia has been set to a total war foot in earlier. What we saw for now, their economy and society hadn’t yet done to this. No war economy, massive propaganda and mobilization, including conscription. They pretty much only use their standing peacetime military forces at this point. (Granted, no into whether they still have some actual wartime mobilization plan, and required infrastructure for it) And a large conflict wouldn’t just involve some farmland, but multiple fronts.

Hornet - I don’t really see how a Mercenary unit can validate using sub-standard materials and low level training standards and remain a viable force. Mainly because the nature of mercenaries, ultimately means to profit through conflict and the only way to do that is to remove those you are in conflict with, with the fewest losses in personnel and material. What does that mean? It means that if by shopping at BAE Systems plc versus say LTV Aerospace and defense (a now bankrupt defense contractor). Means 50% more upfront but in 50% less expenses to carry out a contract it only makes sense to pay the 50% upfront.

Arthaxas234 -  Well I’m fairly certain that 1st IRB has had to subsidize just to make it and has even been called crappy by its own employees. Really makes you wonder why Mega Fun Foods would contract them.

folti - It has been well established in the creators’ posts, that their equipment was adequate for the conflicts they fought before this war. It failed them, and the other companies only when they went up against much better equipped opponents, on whom they had minimal, or no intel. “What does that mean? It means that if by shopping at BAE Systems plc versus say LTV Aerospace and defense (a now bankrupt defense contractor). Means 50% more upfront but in 50% less expenses to carry out a contract it only makes sense to pay the 50% upfront.” – the price difference between an Outrider LIMB, which is a militarized civilian vehicle, and a Dhuvalian Dragoon will be much more than 50%, even if the Free Marketers have all the required tech available, which is not a given. A lot of modern day military research won’t make it out to the civilian sector not just because it’s secret, but because it have very few, if any at all, civilian use. Also, it’s not just the buying price which is important, but the cost of continuous maintenance and upkeep of the equipment, which is also enormous for the top of the line stuff., and can break your back financially.

Hornet - but because it have very few, if any at all, civilian use. – Disagree highly with this. Most of the technological equipment you have in your home today started out as the result of a military project Also, it’s not just the buying price which is important, but the cost of continuous maintenance and upkeep of the equipment, which is also enormous for the top of the line stuff., and can break your back financially. – Yep but the higher end stuff usually has a lower cost overtime because it’s taking less damage to begin with, while surviving more enemy contacts between major overhauls. Guess I’m saying it’s the difference between replacing an entire limb, recruiting and training and entire squad. Versus just a few armor plates or having a team come back uninjured.

Arthaxas234 - From the looks of it,the Free Market needs to have a serious industrial revolution if they’re going to hope to win this war. Have they ever looked into combined arms,like using the air carriers established earlier as air support,and even having it’s own rail-guns. 

Tiwaz - Ah, but it does not work like that. You can’t get stuff by wanting it really, really much despite what lots of consults may tell you in various training events. Free Market cannot suddenly pop out stuff they do not have means to provide. If it is not on someones catalogue now, it will take a long time to make it. First design, then prototypes, then redesign based on problems and another set of prototypes. Even rushed, we talk of very long time before first new device comes out of the production line ready for service. Also, as Free Market is not controlled by single entity, it is quite possible that there will be no Free Market vs Dhuvalia-scenario. Most corporations might find that they haven’t got enough to win by getting involved

Sazuroi - Perhaps until a few decased ago there was some civilian use to military technology, but today the only military technology with a clear civilian use was developed for civilian purposes anyway and then maybe fincanced by some military money as well. That, or the military research parallels civilian research. There are very few fields in which the military even does a major part of the research, most of what they finance is engineering, not theoretical research. And even that is usually done by civilian companies in the arms sector. The one and only exception in the last few decades is perhaps drones, because that technology, while not developed by or for the military originally, gained a lot of clout and application by the military utilizing it in the Post-Cold War era, which made civilian investment and marketing a lot easier. Anywhere else, the military either relies on ill-concieved “exclusive” developments that suffer an abundance of faults or grabs “Commercial off-the-shelf” equipment that wasn’t developed for them. Most militaries are vastly too underfunded to even compete with commercial and civilian research, and most military innovations that made it into the civilian market were due to the larger production volume in a modern or pre-modern war compared to earlier usuage of very similar or identical discoveries. The one big thing that the military can do to drive innovation is to provide a fairly assured demand for some products that would be too risky it introduce to the civilian market first. With the internet allowing for crowdfunding of risky products and private inventions as well as normally unprofitable research or experimental projects (which is also being considered in academic circles) even that might become irrelevant soon. Even more so due to the reduced cost for small prodcution runs and prototyped due to rapid prototyping and increasing relieability of computer modelling. Also, the development cost IS a major hurdle for the introduction of military equipment since it is usually distributed among the units produced, and unless very many units are built, each unit has a crippling up-front cost in addition to upgrade and maintenance cost later. That is mostly a problem for European militaries, which do not usually order terribly many units. Also, if the development of a project fails, the cost is lost, and that also happens fairly often.

Arthaxas234 - Are the LIMBS tactical networks linked together or is it based on RF frequencies?

Arthaxas234 - Does the Fat-bird(their airships established in earlier comics) ever provide air support. If so fix with rail guns and armor and you have air support.

Tiwaz - I think they were too fragile and slow to be used in situation where they can receive fire. You would need to bolt huge amount of metal to make them durable enough, and maybe some critical parts would still be vulnerable.

Arthaxas234 - Couldn’t the Free Market be simply crippled with trade sanctions?

Tiwaz - Only if they depend on trading with you or you have muscle to force others to join up. Else they take hit on trade, but will try to compensate by trading with others. And you cannot be depending on them for supplying anything, or your own imports suffer.

Arthaxas234 - Also,does the Free Market have any type of air support or aerospace defense companies?

Keith - In sufficient data on free market air support or aerospace defense capabilities, proceed with caution…end transmission.

Arthaxas234 - Does the Free Market or Dhuvalia, have any plans for space travel? If so,they can always build colonies,manufacturing plants and even orbiting weapons platforms. Also,on a side-note,how big of a mega-city is TreadHaven?

SteelRaven - Only one nation seems to to investing heavily into space exploration post impossible wars and that the Federative Republic of Salbhaça http://www.mylifeatwar.com/?p=591

Arthaxas234 - Are there any alternative sources of energy for the LIMBS,other than atomic energy? Then again that’s probably off the table when you consider what Dhuvalia’s top scientist is planning.