#<- old man (23) getting sentimental over good ol' times (he wasn't even alive back then.)

[boyfridged]

Regarding Jason's pre-crisis characterization, would you say that he really is just a carbon copy of Dick or did he eventually grow into his own character in the span of his run time? Also, would you recommend it to a Jason fan to read about his pre-crisis days?

i don't think pre-crisis jay has ever been a carbon copy of dick actually! i know it's a popular opinion but frankly speaking, i think people who say that either have not read his pre-crisis run at all or have not cared enough to understand the story.

the fact that pre-crisis jason’s origin and background (in major ways, but not 1:1, that’s also a misconception) mirrors that of dick was not “lazy writing” and it’s not some sign of the general silliness and carelessness of the editorial of the times. it was very much a conscious, well-thought-through decision.

let me break this down (so that it doesn't become another essay):

to make it clear before i get into anything else: jay's background being so similar to that of dick is actually a way to set up a story about their differences. despite sharing so much experience, there are some key variables in both their origins and personalities that the writers clearly wanted to bring readers' attention to. i will circle back to it later.

i reckon a lot of dc fans who never actually got to read these issues have this misconception that the death of the pre-crisis todds was an exact parallel to that of the flying graysons. however, jason’s parents do not die in a way that dick’s parents do; in fact, joseph and trina todd die while aiding dick in an investigation after he requested their help (this is also why dick later says that he would take care of jason have bruce not offered; he feels guilty for their demise.) this is a deeply fascinating concept tbh, because the todds are like collateral damage to vigilantism; sacrificial lambs, and dick is responsible for it, leaving another orphan on the scene. it's a full cycle!

it was also a smart way for jason to enter the narrative this way because it gave him a link to his predecessor. unlike post-crisis, jason’s first contact is dick, which makes sense, because it’s a story about robin (as a disclaimer: the way post-crisis alters it is also sensible for the plot it tries to convey; but these are two various storylines, approached from a much different angle!)

and pre-crisis jay is a very much different character from dick since day one. dick projects on him vehemently, giving him the robin mantle (once jay tries out different identities btw), which jason accepts as a gesture of love but also dreads. he struggles with the concept of vigilantism from the start, while everyone around him assumes that this is simply the way things go because his circumstances are so similar to that of both dick and bruce. he has a seriously tough time trying to reconcile with the concept of dual identities. he questions bruce's motives and actions a lot more than both dick in his early days and post-crisis jason. he stares numbly at the wall after his first patrol. he voices his concerns.

here i also want to say, that while i absolutely do think everyone should read these stories, and there are some storylines that can be incorporated into post-crisis jay canon, it doesn't hurt to consider which of them do not fit into it at all.

post-crisis and pre-crisis jay have completely different backgrounds, and since pre-crisis jay has been brought up in a rather safe and stable environment, as i mentioned, he's much more confident in questioning bruce. on the contrary, post-crisis jay seems to be so delighted to be having an adult at all that his faith in batman is almost absolute (for most of his robin run at least.)

as i said, pre-crisis jay is also much more aware of the duality of the vigilante life. as a former performer, he says that it feels disappointing to know that none of the people whom he helps will know his name, and he is used to having an audience (he is aware that it is a selfish sentiment.) this is not a thing that post-crisis jay considers at all.

i also imagine that post-crisis jay would never tell bruce the (famous) words that he would be perfectly happy to be just his son and not his sidekick (which he does pre-crisis); not because the truth is different but because he doesn't fully comprehend that it's an option. post-crisis robin jay's compartmentalisation is barely existent if at all; bruce "gave him" robin even before he took him in, so the roles of a son & sidekick are almost one and the same for him, which is why i'd say the events of a death in the family occur at all (he "failed" as robin -> he runs away to find another parent).

and well. pre-crisis jay actually has friends. his world does not begin and end with his role as gotham's protector and hope. speaking of which, he also does not possess the same passionate relationship with gotham as post-crisis jay does.

there are of course many traits they share – i'd say they both have even more sympathy for criminals and an even stronger of belief in rehabilitation than bruce does. they are also both, in a way, a victim of the cycle in the family and projection – bruce (and pre-crisis, dick) assume that the way of dealing with grief is to go out into combat, which is not necessarily true for them. but ironically, i think, it's post-crisis jay who remains more innocent and is easy-going in the way he initially settles into the role.

ultimately, i think all batfamily fans should read pre-crisis robin jay's run because it's perhaps the only run that takes adoption and the topic of legacies seriously. and it's before the editorial and writers decided that batman having a child was lame, and that robin's role was just CA, so bruce is truly parenting. while pre-crisis bruce is much more of a sweetheart than post-crisis bruce is, so it may not all seem "realistic" for contemporary characterisation, it still gives a good idea of what a plotline about bruce being a parent could and should look like. i'm not going to lie to you, post-crisis jay's run feels seriously loveless compared with pre-crisis. pre-crisis, there's plenty of family tensions, and at times it appears that no one in this damn family understands each other, and yet there's so much fondness and care and desperate declarations of belonging. pre-crisis jay's story is genuinely, from the very beginning, a story about a child whose parents die entangled in a vigilante's investigation and who is thrown into a family of vigilantes, projected onto from all sides, and who tries to fill in shoes he never truly asked for in the first place. but dear god is there tenderness there. is there self-awareness and a serious attempt to conceive what taking over a mantle of a sidekick means. yeah. much more than it is in post-crisis.