#( also ngl... I really do not like plotlines where a character suffers and suffers only to just die )

[bistaxx]

i refuse to believe that he's dead btw, i am looking away i do not see it- he's fine- he'll come back from this- he cannot die before getting all of his memories of Tilin back- before remembering Richas- before reuniting with Forever- before getting his revenge on the feds- before.... being able to be happy

[ralfstrashcan]

You know what is the most fucked up thing about the show being centered on the Shadowhunter's side? They forget about some details of the Downworlder's side, which becomes totally convenient for plot reasons, but absolutely horrible for the characters. The Warlocks have the Spiral Labyrinth, a place located in a separate dimension like the Seelie Realm. And different from the Seelie Realm, only Warlocks can enter there. It's even punished by death to tell another race how to get there. If Magnus' solely interest was to protect the Warlocks, why he didn't take them there? It doesn't make sense to go to the Seelie Realm if they have an entire place for them. Of course the Vampires and the Werewolves are a different issue, but still. For plot reasons, his alliance with the Seelie Queen was just the beginning of Magnus' downfall. First his job, and then his magic, his home, and ultimately his love. This seemed more a gratuitous Magnus' whump. He suffered a whole hell and then went back to his life as if nothing have happened. Wtf. It wouldn't surprise me if the writers/producers didn't even know or forgot about the potential of the SL. One of them did confirm that they forgot Alec got hurt in the end of 3x10 and this is why he appeared as if nothing had happened in 3x11 😒

I’m absolutely with you, anon! I didn’t get very far with the books so I actually had no idea the Spiral Labyrinth was located in a separate dimension. If I recall correctly (which I do because I looked it up, haha, the power of research!) the Spiral Labyrith is mentioned in the show a whole two times, once in 1x04 when Magnus orders more shields for his loft and once in 3x09 when it’s relayed that Lorenzo said he’d put every warlock who doesn’t obey him into the SL’s dungeons. So, that wasn’t a lot to go off of XD I also wouldn’t be surprised if the writers themselves weren’t entirely clear on what the SL can, where it is, etc. but you’re right, if it was a solid option to flee the range of the angel’s wish then it makes no sense for Magnus to take that foul bargain that the Queen offered. Why should he, when he can keep his people safe without having to compromise his autonomy?

Then again it really wouldn’t be the first time that illogical / ooc stuff happens in this show for ~more drama~ right? Hah.

The fact that the show so clearly focuses on shadowhunters is a source of many of my grievances. Not to repeat myself, but at any given moment I want to ask “Okay but where is Cat?? Why is she not there alongside Magnus fixing shit??” and the show never gives a satisfactory answer. It’s the reason why there’s no casual downworlder bonding shown if it doesn’t serve a (shadowhunter) plot. It’s why Magnus especially is so isolated despite, on paper, having a support system that allegedly cares about him. (Yes, he does this to himself to some extent, but tbh from both Cat and Raphael I get definite vibes of ‘ok i’ll let you get away with this for a short while but when it reaches a certain level i will kick down your door and refuse to let you drown in your misery and depression’ but what we get from the show is ‘what, you lost and regained your magic since the last time we saw each other? hah, i didn’t even know because i didn’t bother to check in with you oops.’ That’s... not the same.)

I get it, to some extent. Unlike us blessed fanfic writers who enjoy a lot of freedom the show’s script works with some very specific constraints, especially time constraints in both the time they have to i) come up with a plot and ii) the fact that the plotlines have to be choppable into nice 42 minute segments.

(I fondly rememer The Untamed which took one look at concept ii) and said “Screw this, so what if I have to cut off the actors mid-dialogue at the end of the episode, I have a story to tell and nothing is going to stop me from doing that” and I deeply respect that.)

The way I see it there are two (ok more but let me focus on two) opposite ways to approach the construction of a story: You can a) develop a plot, and the characters and worldbuilding have to bow to this or you can b) put the characters and worldbuilding into an open space and wait and watch what plot unfolds if you leave them to their own devices. It is clear that sh follows approach a). Which is fair because the plot needs to meet certain requirements to work in this format and if you do b) that is just not guaranteed. But it’s also clear that this kind of building a plot is pretty susceptible for (periodical) ooc behavior, screwing over your own worldbuilding and dumb plot convenience.

I’m not saying it’s impossible to develop a plot going off of a) that doesn’t feature ooc behavior, worldbuilding contradictions and plot convenience but it requires a lot of careful planning.. and here we very quickly hit time constraint i) because the writers are under a lot of time pressure. I’m not an expert on how much goes into a production process but I know it’s A Lot and honestly, if the writers legit forgot that they granted one of their main characters a near death experience in last season’s finale then that really says everything you need to know about the amount of pressure they’re under.

This seemed more a gratuitous Magnus' whump. He suffered a whole hell and then went back to his life as if nothing have happened.

Mood. I’ve never particularly gotten into it, but it is a universally acknowledged fact that Magnus regularly gets benched in his own storyline (and then gets a dramatic scene to save everyone... but no one appreciates him...) right? I don’t need to explain this further.

And on top of that portraying long term consequences of things just isn’t a strength of this show. Case in point: No consequences of the (almost) downworld rebellion at the end of 2B, neither on the side of the downworld nor the clave. They all just ignore it as if it never happened. I feel like this partly translates to the characters and their interpersonal relationships as well. They experience something grave, might suffer for an episode or two and then they (mostly) reset. It can get frustrating ngl.

[b-rainlet]

Gotham for the fandom ask thingy.

(I ran here so fuckin fast you have no clue)

Hello anon! :D I will answer this now, so you don't have to wait any longer but also....this would be very nice to answer through gifsets...(maybe when I am feeling up for it).

For now, have this:

(It's not proof read because I just sat at this for several hours and I don't wanna look at it anymore).

Favourite Male Character

You mean...besides the obvious answers?? :D

Ngl, it's S2 Jerome. I love that little twink with his parental issues and his tragic backstory and I wanna see him happy. There's a reason I have a bunch of AUs where he ends up having a family (mostly in the form of Lee as his Mother) and gets some actual help instead of being ostracized for being a mentally ill person snapping after years of abuse.

(This also ties into my very strong feelings regarding the fact that nobody actually helps the people at Arkham. And I don't mean the main villains there, I mean all the inmates who get treated like shit and are left behind on the regurlar (remember in S2 when Arkham was about to explode and nobody was talking about evacuating the inmates???? I do).

Other than that, one of my faves is also Jonathan. Which may be a little surprising because I barely talk about him but he was my favourite character throughout the show and he had way too little scenes.

(Kinda telling that the characters I latched onto are both helpless teens who were fucked over by the people who were supposed to protect them and can both trace their villain origin story back to Jim Gordon not caring enough about them lmao).

But the cast is big and varied enough that I actually like everyone? Butch, Zsazs, Penguin, S1 and 2 Ed, Jervis, Harvey, Jim......I like them all!!

(Special shoutout to 514A too, he was soft and baby and I wanted to keep him safe and sound really desperately).

(Another special shoutout to Barnes!! I didn't expect to like him when I first saw him, given he looked like he was gonna be mean and stoic and all, but I ended up really liking him and his story!)

Favourite Female Character

Let's just pretend Ecco doesn't exist for this answer ajdkaskaslj.

I fell in love immediately upon seeing Ecco but all! the women! are so!!! good!!!!

I especially have a soft spot for the side characters. I mean, upon first watching I got attached to Alice (even though she only features in two episodes lmao), and also Kristen Kringle - who isn't talked about much within Fandom, but she was pretty and her and Ed were actually quite cute but then she had to die for him to become the Riddler which was...pretty much telling us from the beginnning 'The woman here die to advance the men's plots'.

Barbara was also a big surprise to me because I figured she'd be the female love interest and nothing more but!! her and Jerome were the best thing in S2 and also the most entertaining thing about the Maniax Plot. (In several ways, I think I had the most fun watching this show during S2 , it was just. Good).

Also upon being in this Fandom and thinking about certain characters a bit longer I also really like Vicky Vale. And Montoya. And I wish they had kept both around for longer.

(I also wish they wouldn't have made Vicky a love interest for Jim. Or Sofia. No love interests for Jim except Lee and Barbara please).

Also Selina!! I love both Selina and Tabitha with all my heart - which may also be surprising because I barely ever talk about Tabby but I contain multitudes aklskddsm, and while I like sharing my horny thoughts about Ecco, I also love to think about Tabby and daydream about her being happy and exploring her (and Selina's) issues with showing weakness and affection and their strong loyalty regarding people that they trust.

I just.....women. Women good.

(Women also deserve to have more character than just being somebody's love interests and I have enough wips that completely sideline the guys to focus on the woman instead lmao).

Least Favourite Character

I don't have many characters that I hate??

I generally tend to instantly love everybody unless they are specifically made to be unlikeable. (I also spite-like characters who are hated for petty reasons, I just have a lot of love in my heart and not much energy for hate lmao).

But there were characters who annoyed me while I was watching.

For one, I think Gotham has a variety of super entertaining villains, but the main villains of each season tend to be....boring.

Safe for Strange they all kinda fell flat for me. Theo. Kathryn. Ra's Al Ghul. His Daughter. Mostly because their plotlines were less exciting than stuff like Jerome's carnival or Mother and Orphan's Hotel of Horrors.

Or their motives seemed a lot less understandable than the ones of the other Batman villains who pretty much always come from a place of suffering and abuse and break/snap under the pressure that's put on them (continuing this take of Gotham creating its own villains by leaving behind - mentally ill - people that need help, which I think is very true to most - if not all - Batman villains).

And then you have some characters that simply suffer from the fact that the show was cut short - which is pretty much any and every S5 character that had way too little screentime, but in this specific case means Jeremiah.

Because I disliked Jeremiah a lot while watching.

Without wanting to step on anybody's toes, him and Nygma are probably the two characters on this show I ended up disliking the most.

Mostly because Miah felt like a very cheap copy of Jerome and to this day I think it was a bad idea to replace Jerome with him, since Jeremiah - to me - seems like a super flat character.

Maybe if we had gotten him without meeting Jerome first, just having a Joker character introduced in S4, maybe I would've adored him, who knows.

But in comparison to Jerome...no. Just no.

(I will spare you from any longer rambles, but I think if you follow me, I talked about the ways Miah is lacking for me before).

My made up version of Miah though? I love him.

With Nygma it's even worse because I adored him. I instantly liked him. I was 100% behind him right up until the godawful Isabella plot happened and then it just all went to shit so quickly, I couldn't stand seeing him on screen anymore.

It's surprising that I didn't stop liking Oswald but to me, Oswald pretty much stayed the same while Ed became all bitter and hard and I just miss dorky S2 Ed you know?

It actually got so bad, I completely turned my back on Nygm/obblepot as a ship because I was so severly disappointed and I barely talk about Ed because I just can't stand what they did with him.

(Another victim of bad writing).

Favourite Ship

I'm just gonna stick to canon ships because I don't ever shut up about my Fanon ships so you probably know which ones I love the most :D

There isn't much romance going on within Gotham if I think about it - apart from Jim - which I definitely prefer. You wouldnt guess it from my blog, but I am not a fan of too shippy stuff because in most cases it just means sex scenes and I can live without those. I want action! Blood! Dead People! Not a two minute make-out session between two bland characters!

I gotta admit that Ed and Lee have some cute scenes and I would definitely ship them if I didn't dislike S4 Ed so much (S2 EdLee tho?? Yes).

Also I thought Jim and Lee was okay and Baby Batcat was quite cute at times but mostly I don't care about the canon ships.

I do ship Barbara and Jim though :D

I remember right before they hooked up in S5 I was like: 'I wouldn't mind if they got back together' and then went 'yay!' when they did and I wouldn't have minded a little more 'Will they?? Won't they??' between those two and them just having the mother of unhealthy relationships on this show.

(Also Jim/Barbara/Lee poly relationship but we can't have everything).

Favourite Friendship

So many good relationships on this show!

I need to rewatch the show soon because I probably already forgot about most of them but from the top of my head: Oswald/Butch and Oswald/Zsazs

Which were both then done dirty lmao. One by having Oswald be overly petty (one of the few times I was like...Pengy...wtf...) and the other by passing up the obvious opportunity to have Zsazs find out who really killed Falcone and just...letting Oswald and Victor never interact again. 

Then of course Ivy and Selina which also gloriously fell apart. Just like Ivy and Oswald. 

(Gotham isn’t the best when it comes to maintaining friendships). 

And the biggest and most grandious friendship of them all: J Squad. 

(Who have too little scenes together honestly and then also simply fell apart after Jerome died. Consistency who?)

Favourite Quote

I don’t know, I don’t have many quotes in my head from the show. Me and my niece mostly reference: “Yeah, that’s a spoon.” - “IT IS ALSO A FORK!!1!!!”

Also: “Gotta Go! Gotta Go! They’re after me and the Scarecrow!”

(There are some dialogue blurps I have written down somewhere because they are inspriration for gifsets but in order to be able to just recite some of them from Memory, I would have to watch this show way more obsessively). 

Worst Character Death

I don’t even gotta say anything do I? :D

But I think the character death that actually made me cry was Jerome’s first death. I clearly remember crying because...he just wanted recognition! And praise! And instead he was used as a pawn and betrayed by someone he idolized and he was only 18! My poor little meow-meow!

Seriously, the only things that make me cry on this show: Jerome’s first death, any and all mention of Bruce as a baby - told by an emotional Alfred, any and all Bruce/Alfred interaction at all and Solomon Grundy. 

This made me so happy you have no idea Moment

I seriously need to rewatch this show, it’s been so long :D

But I remember being pretty excited for the J Squad Team Up - because I was like ‘If I were Jerome I would definitely work with Tetch and Scarecrow since they’re also in Arkham atm’ and then he did!!

And I also distinctly remember in S3 that I was close to falling asleep right when they scene came on where Oswald realizes his feelings for Nygma and let me tell you - it caught me so off guard, I was awake instantly lmao. 

(I knew that people shipped them but I was so used to mlm ships being popular when they only have a handful of scenes and are platonic friends that I didn’t expect them to actually have a possibility of being canon). 

From then on I was super pumped for them to deliver on that ship but well....we all knew what happened asnksnndk. 

Saddest Moment

Aside from the already mentioned scenes in the character death column, the scene where Bruce leaves and Selina runs to the airport. I always liked Selina but she wasn’t a priority character of mine (much like Bruce isn’t) but then that scene happened and in an instant, I felt super protective over her. 

She is now my baby. My daughter. My beloved wife. She deserves everything and most importantly she deserves better than Bruce Wayne. 

(Coincidentally that was also the scene where I decided I don’t care much about Bruce asldjkjlj. I absolutely adore early seasons Bruce though). 

Favourite Location

There are so many different locations, I don’t think I can adequately answer this with my spotty memory :D

But I always loved the few episodes where Alice features, because I love how her scenes are shot so probably the little carnival Jervis prepares for her.

Also!! Jeremiah's church!

Or Commissioner Loeb's secret house (Especially the Attic).

There are a lot of cool locations, I gotta gif some of them soon :D