#3 looks for any opportunity to make him out to be like. irredeemably annoying and a bad person

[strawberrysweater]

watching an ongoing let's play of v3 and they just finished all of kiibo's free times and what they decided to take away from the fifth one is "wooow haha kiibo's a bad person shuichi has terrible taste in friends!! he sees shuichi as beneath him wow he's doing a terrible job being a person he's rude and he sucks that's so funny LOL fuck this guy" i think perhaps i will just stop watching this series :') they had so much great insight about all the characters and the plot but of course not about my fave :') of course they overlook the line where he literally admits that way of thinking was wrong and he wants to start over.... yes he's not perfect of course that was a jerk move but he's trying that's the whole point of his character is that he's learning and wants to learn.... i thought it was rlly funny the roundabout way he admits he was wrong, and how shuichi doesn't even take it badly he just wanted to know why kiibo used to talk to him like that.... but now every time he shows up they're probably just gonna insult him or whatever :')

[robininthelabyrinth]

prompt: JGY working for JGS post sunshot is an elaborate scheme he and NHS cooked up one night and he is simply biding his time until JGS does something irredeemable he can report to NHS.

In Here, With Me - ao3 (chapter 2/3)

This is what I wanted, Meng Yao reminded himself at the ceremony where his father gave him a new name and he found out it was an insult.

This is what I wanted, he thought as he watched his father’s men slaughter innocents, acting on his order and at his command.

This is what I wanted, he thought as he was used as a pimp and procurer, as a punching bag for his new ‘mother’, as a convenient scapegoat – as even his proposed marriage was mocked and unreasonably delayed – as he was denied basic privileges and treated as little better than a servant.

Worse, in some cases.

This is what I –

“San-ge!” Nie Huaisang called out, waving frantically, and behind him Nie Mingjue looked default-face neutral but actually, if you knew him well enough, extraordinarily long-suffering. “San-ge! I want to talk to you! About important things!”

If you knew Nie Huaisang, you knew that important things, to Nie Huaisang, included pretty clothing, pretty accessories, pretty birds, pretty people, and spying.

Jin Guangyao put a smile on his face, and for the first time in weeks, actually meant it.

“Any time, Huaisang,” he said. “Why don’t you come inside?”

-

“I hate it,” he told Nie Huaisang, who was trying to look understanding but actually mostly looked smug. “I figure I have two options on what to do about that. Learn to accept my lot in life –”

“Or kill them all and take over?”

“…three options. I was going to say that I was thinking of accepting your earlier offer, but if you really prefer, that second option seems perfectly plausible –”

“No, no, it’s a terrible option,” Nie Huaisang said, waving his hands. “I mean, you’d have to keep it hidden that you did it, you’d spend all your life worrying about someone finding out about it, and anyway, Lan Xichen would be so disappointed in you. How could you live with yourself?”

Quite well as long as he never found out, Jin Guangyao thought, but he acknowledged that all those points were correct. Especially the one about not wanting to live in utter paranoia for the rest of his life.

“What’s your plan?” he asked instead.

Nie Huaisang smiled.

-

“I can’t believe you,” Nie Mingjue said when Jin Guangyao first arrived in the Unclean Realm for a visit to his sworn brother, mulling over his father’s order to find out anything useful he could about Nie Mingjue’s intentions, and the critiquing tone made Jin Guangyao’s back go straight with fear that he would find here only the same disdain as he found in Lanling City. “Why do you listen to Huaisang and not to me? It’s simply unfair.”

Right, Jin Guangyao thought, his shoulders loosening. Right. It’s different here.

“We speak the same language,” he said.

“What language is that?” Nie Mingjue grumbled. “Fan semaphore? Anyway, stop dawdling by the door and get in here already. I told the kitchen to make your favorites since I know you and he will be spending half the day drinking tea and plotting mischief.”

Jin Guangyao nodded, and in a moment of recklessness added, “Would you tell me what your plans are for the position of Chief Cultivator?”

“It should be abolished,” Nie Mingjue said at once. “Why do we need someone to boss us all around?”

A standard Nie Mingjue answer, Jin Guangyao supposed.

“And your next moves to accomplish that?”

Nie Mingjue blinked owlishly at him. “I’m busy rebuilding my sect,” he said. “I can worry about politics later, can’t I?”

Jin Guangyao sighed and went to talk to Nie Huaisang instead.

-

“The wonderful thing about da-ge is that he means well,” Nie Huaisang said. “The terrible thing about da-ge…”

“Is that he means well,” Jin Guangyao agreed.

-

“We could use demonic cultivation as a lever, no one likes that,” Jin Guangyao suggested, but Nie Huaisang shook his head.

“I’m planning on rehabilitating Wei-xiong,” he said. “And the Wen boy, Wen Ning – he was nice.”

“That seems unnecessarily difficult.”

“Just you wait.”

-

“Wait. We’re framing my father?”

“Don’t think of it as framing, san-ge! Think of it as allowing him the rope he can use to hang himself.”

“…has anyone ever told you that you’re ruthless, Huaisang?”

“Hmm. Da-ge, when fighting me for the last sweet. Does that count?”

“No.”

-

“…I take it back,” Jin Guangyao said, watching Nie Mingjue nurse his wounded hand and even more wounded pride after an abject loss at the dining room table. “Huaisang, you can have the last sweet, and also the title of ‘most ruthless’.”

“I told you!”

-

“Does that mean you’ll agree to my plan, then?”

“Don’t make me regret this.”

-

“I’m willing to play along with your stupid plan,” Nie Mingjue said, which came as a surprise to both Jin Guangyao and Nie Huaisang – not least of which because as far as Jin Guangyao knew, they hadn’t actually told Nie Mingjue what they were planning. “But I have some conditions.”

Jin Guangyao turned to look at Nie Huaisang, who looked as surprised as he was, and then turned to stare at Nie Mingjue’s retreating back: he’d only briefly put his head in to check on them in between other tasks, and as Jin Guangyao well knew, his schedule was packed – it was no surprise he didn’t stay.

“Does he know what the plan is?” he asked Nie Huaisang. “Or was he just guessing that he’d have a role to play?”

“I have no idea,” Nie Huaisang said. “Sometimes he surprises me.”

Jin Guangyao nodded thoughtfully. “We should go figure out his conditions,” he said, and Nie Huaisang nodded. “And also how he managed to learn about the plan, assuming he did.”

“What else could you be planning?” Nie Mingjue asked irritably when they finally managed to corner him. “I know what both of you are like, I know what your goals are; the rest of it all falls out quite naturally from that. Have you figure out yet how you’re planning on fixing the Wei Wuxian problem?”

“Setting up an opportunity for rampant heroics. He won’t be able to resist.”

Nie Mingjue nodded.

“What are your conditions, da-ge?” Jin Guangyao asked.

“Jin Zixuan doesn’t die if you can help it, and Jiang Cheng becomes Chief Cultivator if someone has to have the job,” Nie Mingjue said. “I do not want to get stuck with it, and anyway we’re getting him his head disciple back; he can deal.”

Those conditions seemed reasonable, although the Jin Zixuan bit might be a little annoying.

“And in exchange for that, you’ll play along?”

Nie Mingjue nodded. He had that long-suffering look again. “Just tell me what you need me to do.”

-

“A-Yao, you’re sure you really don’t mind?” Jin Zixuan asked a third time. “I’m sure this wasn’t what you thought you’d be getting when you were accepted to Lanling Jin –”

“What part?” Jin Guangyao asked. “Our father engaging in crimes and trying to blame me for them, no one believing him and deposing him as sect leader, or the fact that you’d like me to be sect leader for a few years while you focus on raising your children?”

“…all of that, really,” Jin Zixuan said. “Mostly the last one, though.”

“I promise I don’t mind at all,” Jin Guangyao said, and smiled.

On the contrary, he thought. This is what I wanted.

[your-brilliant-lady-m]

Part 4 - Basic Concepts of Miraculous Ladybug: Glamour

You can call it however you want: kid's show logic, superhero disguise logic, magical girl show logic, cartoon laws, suspension of disbelief, etc. But the fact that nobody recognises Marinette, Adrien and others when they are suited up IS NOT BAD WRITING. It's one of the main laws of this genre. That's not because characters are stupid, okay? So, being frustrated that everyone in the show acts stupid about this "wearing a mask that covers only eyes" trope is strange. This criticism is not valid or fair.

But, this trope has to make sense in-universe as a worldbuilding and narrative element.

Miraculous doesn't give us much direct information on how glamour works. And in this case, I think we need both SHOW and TELL. Because if you don't establish the glamour rules clearly, you are going to run into problems and create unfortunate implications with your storytelling choices.

Appearance

Miraculous obviously gives our heroes magical glamour. In "Lady WiFi" we find out that masks can't be taken off. It's magic. No other explanation is needed.

Miraculous can slightly change the appearance of users (eyes, face shape, height and hairstyles). People can identify and notice the hairstyles of heroes (numerous Ladybug wigs, statue in Copycat). Jagged Stone points out the change of hair when he mistakes Chloe for Ladybug ("Antibug"). But it's just a costume. There is no magic that prevents Jagged from understanding that Chloe isn't Ladybug. So, how does it work? But it's forgivable because it's cartoon logic. Suspension of disbelief works here, I suppose. I won't judge this too harshly.

Glamour also obviously prevents people from making a connection that Marinette and Ladybug have identical hairstyles. So people know that Ladybug wears her hair in pigtails, but magic does not allow them to notice similarities.

Another important question. Does glamour work on Kwamis? Can they see who is behind the mask?

New York Special makes it clear that magic does not affect robots and they can see through glamour. Does that mean that Markov, AI built by Max, knows the identities of Ladybug and Chat Noir? And it's never addressed.

Plagg in "Frightningale" says that holders can subconsciously choose their superhero appearance. This is actually pretty interesting and I like this idea a lot. Except the show is not consistent with this. The transformation of Master Fu looks identical to Nathalie's. And we have seen how different from each other Ladybug and Black Cat holders looked in the past. At the same time, Master Fu and Nino have different takes on Turtle superhero suit.

Age Glamour

Does age glamour exist? Do people see Ladybug, Chat Noir and other heroes as adults even when they look like teenagers to the audience (their height and build are smaller even when they are transformed)? Is that why no one ever questions the fact that children nearly die on a daily basis?

I mentioned unfortunate implications earlier. Well, this is where they come into play. Let's talk about "Copycat". A lot of people discussed it before me, so I won't bore you with details.

When I watched "Copycat" for the first time Theo's crush on Ladybug didn't bother me, because I thought that he sees Ladybug as his peer, a girl who is about 20-23 years old. Theo is an artist, his character design is that of an adult. He has his own studio, its appearance indicates that he did serious commissions in the past. The guy has no idea that Ladybug is like 13.

But then we get "Heroes' Day" and "Ladybug". And Hawkmoth calls them "kids", which means that there is no age glamour. Others see Ladybug and Chat Noir as teenagers. Perhaps, other Miraculous users aren't affected by age glamour. Therefore regular people see all heroes as adults but other heroes are able to guess their age more or less correctly. But you must spell this thing out because the audience can interpret "Copycat" differently. If there is no age glamour, then Theo is crushing on a teenage girl and he is fully aware of this fact. And this doesn't look good for your show.

The "No Age Glamour" theory is further confirmed in "Sapotis" where Alya just straight up analyses voice recordings and says that Ladybug is a girl their age. If glamour exists then it should also cover technology. Kwami can't be photographed. Face and voice recognition software shouldn't be able to analyse transformed superheroes and detect their identities in any way.

Besides, after "Sapotis" Alya should definitely be sure that Ladybug is not 5000 years old (also not an adult), especially after she wore Miraculous herself and was one door away from detransformed Ladybug.

SEASON 4 UPDATE! There's no age glamour after all.

In "Furious Fu" Su Han calls Chat Noir a child without knowing his identity. It means that everyone knows their superheroes are teenagers. "Copycat" can't be saved from that, uh, subtext anymore. No one questions the danger of their job or the balance of their lives outside of the mask. No one doubts their competence after "Origins" ever again. No one becomes annoyed after being bossed around by two teenagers in spandex. You had many opportunities to drop these details into the narrative. Someone could have been akumatized over this (I will not be ordered around by some magical kids!).

I don't know why writers decided not to use at least this idea and slightly adjust "Copycat" if they got rid of the age glamour completely. It can be explained as kid's show logic, but unfortunately, I'm reluctant to do it. If many characters sympathise with akuma victims on-screen, why not with the teenage superheroes who must fight them?

New York Special had this weird focus on collateral damage out of nowhere (the damage done by sentimonster Robostus) and yet it has 0 effect on the main story. No one in Paris is pissed that their 2 teenage protectors weren't there.

Ironically, "Furious Fu" and that one remark made by Su Han also created unfortunate implications for other moments in the show. Just hear me out. Apparently, Jagged Stone wrote a "thank you" song for Ladybug knowing that she is 13-15 year old child back in "Pixelator". Fandom is more than happy to roast Lila for lying about saving Jagged Stone's cat and him writing her a "thank you" song. Fandom claims that Lila's tale could harm Jagged's reputation, when he wrote a song for teenage Ladybug several weeks prior. Meanwhile, in-universe this lie is 100% believable.

If we put on "realism glasses", then both this whole song situation and Theo's crush in "Copycat" have uncomfortable implications. However, the show's canon can't be viewed and criticised through "realism glasses". I admit that bits and pieces of my criticisms are affected by these "glasses", but, ultimately, I'm trying to be fair and concentrate only on things that can't be justified by "cartoon logic and worldbuilding".

Could the existence of age glamour solve this problem of unfortunate implications and other concerns mentioned above? YES. Is it better for the narrative? YES. Is essential for the story? NOT QUITE. Could the absence of age glamour be called an irredeemable storytelling flaw? NO.

Disclaimer: On a side note, only older audience can notice these implications. Children, the target audience, most likely won't understand this subtext simply because they don't have enough experience. So, perhaps, this criticism is unfair, because these moments only look weird to me as an adult. It's like an adult joke in a cartoon that you don't get until you reach a certain age.

There's nothing technically wrong with adult writing a "thank you" song for a teenager. It's just an expression of gratitude. However, unfortunately, we live in a world, where adults normally wouldn't write songs for teens to express gratitude only. In real life similar actions would imply pedophilia and would be actively scorned by the public. No one would risk their reputation like that even if their intentions were genuinely pure and sincere. But this show can't be viewed through "realism glasses", because it's a cartoon and in certain cases we as the audience must use suspension of disbelief and pretend that certain things are possible for plot to happen.

Su Han also wants to give Ladybug and Black Cat to adults. Why didn't Master Fu do this then? Writers don't give us any explanation. Throughout the show we never question this up until the moment it's revealed that adults don't have time-limited powers. Then comes "Furious Fu". Story suddenly becomes self-aware here. Because apparently nothing prevented Fu from giving the most powerful Miraculous to adults who won't have time limit and will be more effective against Hawkmoth (see part 3 for more details).

I have a very good example of Age Glamour done right. It works in the story. There is no confusion or unfortunate implications. There is like one plothole connected to the glamour (it's been years and I still can't forgive them for Cornelia and Caleb) but otherwise, it's a pretty solid example of both show and tell. Clearly, writers wanted to avoid uncomfortable implications which are present in "Copycat". I am talking about W.I.T.C.H. comic books and animated series.

If you are not familiar with it, I'll give you a brief explanation. The story follows 5 girls, the Guardians of Kandrakar who are chosen to protect their world and parallel ones from evil. They receive magical powers from the amulet known as the Heart of Kandrakar. Their powers are based on elements: fire, water, earth, air and energy. Our main characters are about 13-15 years old. In the animated series they are younger and they attend middle school, making them 12-14 years old. But the transformation makes them look 18-20. They look like young women to each other and to other people. At the same time, people can recognise them, their looks and voice don't change. Most people don't know that they are really teenagers when they are not transformed and these people don't know that magic can make them look older. That's why everyone treats Guardians like adults when they are transformed. Comics establish this fact in the very beginning. In first issues characters state that they look older, we are also shown this multiple times.

In fact, one of the first side plots revolves around the fact that Irma uses her powers to sneak into the disco club to meet up with her crush. Irma is 13 at the beginning of the series, she is a high school freshman. Her crush, Andrew Hornby is a senior guy 17-18 years old. Irma has liked him for a long time and wants to impress him, so she decides to be clever about this. She transforms into her Guardian form of the 18-year-old girl, hides her wings, sneaks out to the club after her parents are asleep without any problem, and meets Andrew, who obviously doesn't recognise Irma in this girl who looks about his age. Smitten Andrew offers her a ride and 13-year-old Irma doesn't understand the implication of that offer, so she accepts. And, obviously, he decides that she is interested in more than just a ride home, since she agreed, and the comic implies that he fully intended for them to have sex in the backseat of his car. But Irma understands the implication only when Andrew tries to kiss her. She panics and turns him into a frog. And she actually pulls this "I need to look mature" trick more than once over the course of the series.

It's not the only situation where this age difference is handled well and makes sense. People who know the main characters in everyday life remark on their older appearance during transformation. Sometimes people flirt with Guardians when they are transformed. In one of the side-novels centred around Cornelia, she is worried that the prince of the realm they helped to save from famine would try to marry her. That never happens, but Cornelia actually brainstorms with her friends about how to tell the prince that she is really 15.

There are many other plot points where this happens, but I think that you got the idea. I really like how "Age Glamour" was handled in W.I.T.C.H.

How do we fix this? Create the situations where people offhandedly mention "Age Glamour" in the presence of Marinette or Adrien, use Kwami for this.

"Don't worry, dear. Chat Noir and Ladybug are adults, who know what they are doing. I am sure that they will handle this. "

Theo could say: "Oh, I wonder which university Ladybug goes to?"

"So, does that mean that other people see us as grown-ups, Tikki?"

A few words and boom, problem solved. Then allow the "show don't tell" rule do the rest.

[kalinara]

would you mind sharing with us those hopes/wishlist-type ideas for a Nate storyline in season 3? :D

I don't really have like a full storyline in mind or anything. I just have things that I'd really like to see. I think they're probably not all mutually compatible, but well, that's okay. It's a wishlist, not a checklist!

FIRST AND FOREMOST, I want Nate to redeem himself. I think most folks on tumblr are at least open to this idea, but I remember seeing quite a few folks on reddit and other places going on and on about how they think it'd be better and "more realistic" if Nate wasn't forgiven.

That irks me to no end. Because, first of all, what does "realism" even mean in the context of this show? Since when was that EVER a priority in this sweet little fable about a manic pixie dream girl who accidently materialized as a forty-five year old American man and saves everyone through kindness and love?

That's an oversimplification of course, because the show does and always did have its share of darkness and pain, trauma and abuse. But even then, the whole point is that people are people! They have layers and reasons for what they do.

Nate is motivated by pain and trauma, and he's been acting in terrible ways. But we know he's capable of better than that. And we know, at heart, that Nate wants to be better than that. So I'd be very disappointed if he wasn't given the opportunity.

"Cynicism" isn't the same as "realism", the show already has a few irredeemable monsters (Rupert and James Tartt, for example). We can afford to give Nate the chance to be better.

So now with that rant out of the way, here are some things/scenarios that I'd love to see, in no particular order:

1) I'd like to see Nate do well as the head coach of West Ham. I think it will be tough for him. Any screw up will be magnified, and Rupert will not be a pleasant boss if he doesn't get what he wants. Nate is also not a people person, and that's going to be a difficulty for him. But I'd like to see him rise to the occasion, now that he's in a place with less personal baggage.

It's not as satisfying to imagine a humiliated Nate crawling back to Richmond. I'd prefer to see a strong Nate, with a new understanding of Ted through his own relationships with his players, coming back as an ally and friend. (And if he does leave West Ham, I'd like it to be on his terms, or at least for his reasons.)

2) @hacash had a great scenario idea where Nate teams up with Trent to write an expose on Rupert. I love this. It'd be a perfect parallel/reversal to what he did at the end of this season, but for the right reasons this time.

3) Since Nate is presumably still a main character, we're probably going to get a closer look at Rupert's life in general. And particularly Bex. I would love to see Nate get to know Bex, see the real Rupert, and get her and baby Diane out of there.

4) I'd love to see Nate and Rebecca have a talk about Rupert. And maybe about Ted too. It occurs to me that, for all of Beard's protectiveness and anger, he never outright told Nate off for what he did. No one has. And maybe someone should. Ted certainly won't.

5) I want Nate to find out about the picture. Because knowing Ted as we do, I think the picture will still be up. Even after everything.

6) I kind of want/think we'll have a scene where Nate figuratively talks Ted off some kind of a ledge. Like Ted is on the verge of making some kind of dreadful decision, and Nate is the one who is able to keep that from happening.

I like this idea, because I mentioned in a previous post that I don't think Nate has any idea how much Ted is hurting. And I want him to be able to see his former mentor/surrogate father with clear eyes. And to do something to help.  

I especially like the idea that this happens BEFORE any kind of redemption arc for Nate.

7) I want to see the team annoy the shit out of pre-redeemed Nate through their enthusiasm and support. Because they love Nate. And probably, as far as they know, he just took a great professional opportunity.

8) I want truth and apologies to come out, all around. I want the team to apologize to Nate. I want Nate's own actions to come to light. I want Rebecca to apologize to everyone. All of that. Clear the air.

I'm sure if I think about it, I'll think of a few others, but this is my wishlist so far. :-)