#And then with Hobson's it was: this could ABSOLUTELY be worse

[threewaysdivided]

Hobson Heckled into Historical Haute-Couture

Continuing the Dan Jones & Dragons gala parade with Hobson, the Flower Crowns' oft-harried Halfling Warlock (played by the ever-wholesome Dan Floyd). Is he trying to massage away the realisation that letting his literally-half-brained patron choose his gala attire might have been a mistake? Is Valse giving him a headache over something else entirely? Did he use Detect Magic in a room full of powerful items and accidentally flash-bang himself? Yes.

More Flower Crowns Gala Outfits: Morenthal | Gelnek

As always, design talk under the cut:

But before that, a short story: I've been following Dan's content on Youtube for... oh jeez, that sure is almost a decade now, both on his current New Frame Plus/Playframe channels and back when he was the primary founder and narrator for EC. His old games education videos helped me get one of my earliest jobs in project work and introduced me to a bunch of media production concepts (like scope management) that would go on to inform some of my own storytelling analysis posts. It was a startling little moment of artistic ouroboros to realise I was mentally running through key points from Dan's own Pose Design 101 video as I was drawing his DnD character. Never expected things to come full-circle like that, but if you're seeing this, Dan: here's to you 🫡 If you're not Dan and haven't already, do go check out his stuff - it's all super well-produced, informative, funny and he's just an overall stand-up guy.

Now: onto the tiny little nerd and his passé party attire

This was a really fun costuming challenge, with a bunch of interesting curveballs thrown in the mix. Unlike the rest of the Flower Crowns, Hobson didn't choose his own party outfit: it was picked out by his patron after Valse kibbitzed him into giving up and letting a heroism-obsessed Fey call the shots. Dan cited Valse as having the fashion sense of Stede Bonnet-as-depicted-in-OFMD, briefing a vaguely 19th century-style outfit that had frilled sleeves and 'would have looked gaudy even when it was in fashion a century earlier'.

Actually dating his outfit was the first challenge. D&D settings are kind of an anachronistic uchronia, with classic swords-and-sorcery fantasy campaigns potentially pulling inspiration points from anywhere across the Arthurian era up to pre-war modernity. Which leads to the question: how do you make something seem dated in a setting where most everything looks vaguely ye-olde-fantasy? The other challenge was that, IRL, the 19th century (i.e Victorian era) was when menswear started taking on a lot of the shapes that would eventually become modern suit and top-'n'-tails fashion. Since Trilby was already going to be wearing classic top-'n'-tails formalwear, I decided to set Hobson's style earlier in the 1800s-1820s and pull in some 18th century Stede Bonnet flourishes to visually set them apart. This article provided some great reference images, and once I hit on the figured silk waistcoat I knew I had a potential starting point.

Colour-wise, I stuck with the burgundy-and-gold palette the Dans gave Hobson in his official gala stream art, since those looked good together and matched up with Dan J's tendency to draw Hobson wearing greens/earth-tones and Valse in reds/jewel-tones. The combination is a lot more colourful and richly saturated than is typical for this style of Victorian-adjacent clothes, which felt appropriate for Valse's gaudy tastes.

Fabric-wise, I figured a fun way to gaudy things up even further would be to lean into the silks and satins that were fashionable at the time, but make all of his outfit shimmery rather than just a single feature piece. As a bonus, silk and satin clothes tend be hot, inelastic and have horribly itchy seams if worn unlined, which felt like exactly the kind of thing Valse's all-form-no-function sensibilities would inflict upon the small, long-suffering fellow. Both these fabrics also have a habit of behaving hideously and ripping themselves apart when worn wet, which makes this a great outfit to, say, accidentally fight an Aboleth in. Poor Hobson.

Some other details, just for fun: 1. Hobson's sketch layers include a drawing of his un-removable cursed left bracer. He's pulled the frilly, puffy sleeve over it but you might spot hints of the shape and the gem if you squint. 2. The reference waistcoat I used had floral embroidery on it. Had this actually been a Hobson outfit, I would have converted them to his garland flower (Forget-Me-Nots), but since it was a Valse pick I decided to make them Senaliesse chrysanthemums; a flower given out to friends of the Feywild's Summer Court as a sign of protection and favour. (It also adds extra layers to Pocket mistaking Hobson for a denizen of the Fey, which is fun).

Close crop on the details because I'm very happy with how they turned out:

[dragonnan]

In light of the disgraceful and asinine decision to cancel Prodigal Son, what are some other shows that make your list of “WTF WHY WERE THESE CANCELLED????????”

Here’s some of mine (and I’m nearly half a century old so I may go back before some ya’ll were born...)

Early Edition (CBS 1996-2000):  Starring Kyle Chandler, Shanésia Davis-Williams, Fisher Stevens, Kristy Swanson, and Billie Worley.  Gary Hobson was just a regular dude when one day he got a paper (and a cat) at his door.  Thing is, this paper has tomorrow’s news.  The character of Gary has a little bit of a Peter Parker flavor to him - this guy who loves his city (Chicago) and wants to save everyone.  As the series goes on, he starts to realize the awful truth that sometimes he’s going to be too late.  As well, the stress of managing daily rescues means he’ll never be able to miss a day because someone could die.  That doesn’t mean he hasn’t tried getting rid of the paper a few times.  Two episodes stand out to me in particular.  The first is where Gary fails to save someone and they fall to their death.  Gary himself, later, will end up in a life and death situation and is faced with whether or not he even wants to live.  Another episode has Gary repeating the same day, over and over, as he desperately tries to stop his friend from getting killed - only to fail every time.

Invisible Man (SciFi Network 2000-2002): Starring Vincent Ventresca, Paul Ben-Victor, Eddie Jones, Shannon Kenny and Michael McCafferty.  Darien Fawkes was a fairly successful cat burglar (think Scott Lang) until he was finally caught by police.  However, instead of being locked away he was handed over to his older brother; a scientist working on some top secret, and highly dubious, experiments.  Darien became the guinea pig - implanted with a gland that can flush the body with a compound called Quicksilver - which turns anyone with the gland invisible.  Sadly, before further research can be done, Darien’s brother is murdered and he’s left alone - stuck with this gland he barely understands.  Worse still, the gland comes with a nasty side effect.  It slowly turns the user insane.  Long story short, Darien is captured/recruited by another top secret agency funded by the government.  Their doctor/scientist did some preliminary research on the gland and was able to develop a sort of stop gap injection to help control the side effects of the gland.  It is a painful but necessary treatment but accidents can still happen - such as over using the gland which means a quicker build-up of toxins in the system.  So Darien was given a tattoo (LIKE THOSE COLOR CHANGE PICTURES ON COFFEE MUGS hahahaha!) that will gradually change color the more the toxins build up (guys this is fucking scifi - don’t ask how the hell that works like this is a series about an invisible dude, okay??).  ANYWAY TL;DR Darien is partnered with a former CIA agent and the two of them chase bad guys and it’s awesome and whumpy as fuck and basically was cancelled cause the show blew its special effects budget.   

Moonlight (SyFy 2007-2008):  Starring Alex O'Loughlin, Sophia Myles, Jason Dohring, and Shannyn Sossamon.  The series is about a private investigator named Mick St. John who, among other thing, is also a vampire.  Mick ends up working with a reporter named Beth Turner as the two of them investigate various crimes.  What I really love is the spin on the usual sorta vampire mythology.  Mick is able to go out in sunlight (though within reason. Too long - too hot and he can get really sick or even die).  Getting a stake to the heart isn’t fatal but it does cause paralysis and hurts like fuck.  Silver CAN be fatal as it acts like a poison.  Fire is absolutely fatal as it will turn exposed vampires to ash.  On top of all that vampires can get triggers of the past via the blood they ingest (think iZombie) or even through scent.  Also some vampires have “gifts” - like there are some who don’t burn when exposed to fire.  Part of their culture, and what keeps them protected from exposure to humanity, are the “Cleaners”.  Cleaners (like the Blacklist) will get rid of all evidence of vampire activity such as dead vampires or humans killed by rogues.  And that’s another thing.  Vampire hierarchy is very important.  Vampires who create other vampires are referred to as Sires and their turned “offspring” are called fledglings.  Whatever gift the sire has they will pass on to their fledglings.  Sadly there was only 1 season of this series so there is a TON of mythology that was never explored but they managed to pack a whole lot into that 1 season.    

Lie to Me (Fucking Fox 2009-2011): Starring Tim Roth, Kelli Williams, Brendan Hines, Monica Raymund, and Hayley McFarland.  Dr. Cal Lightman is the founder of a company with highly skilled “human lie detectors”.  The series is based on the real world work of Paul Ekman, who is a specialist in detecting micro-expressions.  The series itself deals with various criminals and members of the group, primarily Lighman, sussing out the lies from the truth.  It also has one of my absolute favorite parent and child relationships between Cal and his daughter.

Whitechapel (BBC 2009-2013): Starring Rupert Penry-Jones, Phil Davis, and Steve Pemberton.  Sorta like a low budget X-Files (no offense!)  It’s creepy and mysterious with elements of supernatural happenings mixed with investigations in the area of Whitechapel.  It all has to do with murders that reflect Jack the Ripper.  

[roominthecastle]

Hi Room, What do you think about the finale? Any theorys about why Katarina did that to Red? And what do you think about the Stranger? Thanks!

To me, the finale in general felt okay, which is strangely comforting bc it wasn’t bad. I’m good with an “okay”. “okay” is an improvement (like I still feel TBL is trying while – to use a concurrent example – GOT gave up on itself and its fans spectacularly). There are individual moments that are more than okay to me (DEMBE, the team work, esp Liz & Red, esp esp Liz taking charge and that tiny moment of synchronized tea drinking) and others are less than (e.g. the conclusion to the conspiracy plot is kinda… ?!), but overall I like how S6 played out and my excitement for (lucky number) 7 is intact. Things are in motion and interesting again, and I finally gave myself permission to do a proper, full-scale re-watch during the summer, maybe attempt to chart the timeline, too, which is sth I never expected to consider doing again. I’m even gonna read the comics. In short, this season pulled me back in the Zone.

the rest is behind a cut due to length – @ mobile app users, apologies as always

Red’s identity, Dom’s story, and Liz’s side of these things

The Stranger: Masha was bound to figure out you aren’t who you say you are. What I can’t figure out is Dom. Why would he tell her all that?Red: In an attempt to help her move on.The Stranger: And she believed him?Red: She did. So much so that she‘s decided it’s safe to bring her daughter home.The Stranger: I know Dom meant well. He shouldn’t have told her that story.

So… having seen this scene, I def have more doubts than before, anon, but I still believe that the gist of the Rassvet story (including Red == Ilya) is true. This is (imo) why Red tells Dom “I know the broad strokes, I know who I am, but I need to hear the details you used to sugarcoat the ugly truth to make it look like a fairytale”, i.e. something that Liz has a tendency to swallow (see changed man!Tim or every paternity test they show her), something she was eager to embrace here, too, despite the obvious holes bc – as she told Ressler – “it is sweet and safe, so I’m gonna overlook things that don’t add up and hope it doesn’t come crashing down on me this time”. But it does. Every time.

Whether we like it or not, this is a consistent trait in Liz, this willingness to settle for a sweet, simple story over the messy, complicated truth even when she has misgivings (see her going at Red in 219, “It wouldn’t kill you to lie just once to make someone feel good.”). She’s not stupid, she’s just scared and unsure, imo (and so is Red but, unfortunately for Liz, being pathologically secretive is still what soothes him). But when there is no sweet story available to make Liz feel good/safe or it’s no longer sustainable, that’s when she grows restless/angry and goes on the offensive until she feels safe again. She did this w/ Tim and then w/ Red, too (she literally locked both of them up to gain control), and both times we can eventually hear her say “I was scared of you but not anymore”, and both times she expresses love for a safe & sweet idea and not the full reality of these men who cannot live up to that idea, so the cycle starts up again (well, not w/ Tim as he is now dead but Red is still in the running.)

It doesn’t really matter if the answer she gets is incomplete or untrue. As long as she can make herself swallow it, as long as it brings a sense of security, she will go for it. Tim played along w/ this and that fantasy bubble collapsed every time. Red never did and never will indulge her w/ sweet delusions but by doing so, he also reduces their “feelgood” time together. He hides behind her father’s identity but for her, he breaks cover repeatedly, which to me further signals that he doesn’t wish to take on the roles associated w/ this identity in her life, which clearly clashes w/ her park bench claim of “this is who you will always be to me”. And given Liz’s track record w/ these self-soothing declarations, I think we will once again see her being contradicted.

Having heard of what’s happened btw her and Red, I think Dom decided to tailor the truth to give them a quick-fix. His story brought a sense of safety/certainty that Liz craves – sth Red refused to offer when he told her he had a secret and he had to keep it and refused to give her any embellished feel-good alternative. But now he is on edge bc some of his secrets have been spilled and it was done in a way that maximizes his discomfort (by making him look like a hero when he considers himself anything but, and, ultimately, by undermining his control over his own “narrative” around Liz). I believe this is part of the reason why he tells Dom that he likely made everything worse by telling her that story.

I hope next season they will be pushed to face more of the actual truth together – in all its ugly, messy glory – about what exactly happened and, more importantly, why. Because we still don’t know much of that. Dom only offered a taste but now Katarina is back to mix some sour to the sweet (I am hungry as I am typing this, can you tell ;)

The Stranger: well, we barely have anything to go on here but what we have is already intriguing, i.e. he grew up w/ Red, he seems to know Dom and Katarina personally, he seems to have some serious tradecraft background + connections, and he is among the v few who is trusted w/ Red’s secrets, so he is inner inner circle for sure (and he’s played by Brett Cullen, so… yes please). I still think the childhood pledge from the Rassvet story is an element of truth (it just fits our Red way too much + I see it reflected in “Cape May”), so I think these 3 (the Stranger, Red, and Kat) were likely childhood friends and they all picked similar career paths (or it was picked for them), so the Stranger is likely Russian, too.

Katarina continues to puzzle me to no end, I freely admit. And I am enjoying it (for now anyway). The finale offered some really interesting details here, imo, and I think Red’s 2nd meeting w/ the Stranger is the most revealing.

Red tasked his mysterious friend to locate Katarina bc Ressler’s dig for his real identity triggered an active search for her, too. The Stranger finds her and hands Red a picture saying, “It’s her. I’m telling you, Raymond. Paper trails. The passports. The travel. It’s her.” What we can immediately conclude here is that they didn’t even know what Kat looks like now since it’s not the picture the Stranger used to identify her but her signature methods/movements (knowledge of this implies a close working relationship in the past at the v least). And since he doesn’t hand Red the pic to ask him to confirm it’s her but to show him what she looks like now, we can also conclude that Red had no idea what she looks like now, either, which means that he hasn’t seen her for almost 3 decades and, apparently, he would have been fine w/ maintaining this arrangement if it hadn’t been for the security risk Ressler’s digging exposed them to.

This conclusion lines up nicely w/ two (imo very important) things established in previous episodes:

Red’s hallucinations at Cape May – he sees Kat the way she looked in 1991/92. His mind couldn’t conjure her present image bc his last memories of her are almost 30 years old. This in turn implies that the Hobson’s choice event took place around this time, as well, and that was the last time he saw her. It was the last time Dom saw her, too, if what he tells Liz in “Rassvet” – that it was 28 years ago – is true.

Katarina being dead – whatever happened to Kat, her own father considers her as good as dead now. So does Red and Dom blames him for this loss, going as far as saying he killed her.

Dom: These boxes are all I have left of my daughter.

Red: If Katarina were standing here instead of me, if it were she asking you, what would you tell her?Dom: It doesn’t matter because she is not here and she’s not asking.Red: But if you could tell her–Dom: I can’t!

Dom (to Liz): If my Katarina was still here, she would have let me know. [… her mother sent a letter hoping it] would find her alive. I picked it up because I knew it never would.”

Liz: You said the name Masha Rostova had been lost to history until the manhunt. Now it’s out there and someone’s looking for me. It’s my mother.Red: Lizzie, your mother is dead.

Her mother was dying, Kat never showed. Her daughter was being hunted and it was televised globally – Kat never showed. And clearly neither Dom nor Red expected her to as they both seem to consider Katarina dead despite being aware that she is still out there somewhere. Moreover, they both believe that Liz is better off thinking her mother is dead than knowing whatever the truth is (so it cannot be too good). Add to this Red’s latest remark to Liz – “your mother can’t hurt you” – and things truly get weird and interesting. Was Kat subjected to some special session w/ Krilov, too, that somehow “extinguished” parts of her, practically rendering her old self “gone”? This would be my current best guess (just a shot in the dark, really) and I know it’s crude sci-fi territory but this is TBL we’re talking about.

Whatever happened to Kat, Red was involved in it, and we have several remarks to back this up:

“All the money, all the time and effort, all the favors in the world cannot possibly equal what you took away from her.” (Red, 216)

“There was a woman and her child. Both were doomed. Both would die. I could either save one or lose both. I chose the child. It was the worst thing I’ve ever had to do in my life.” (Red, 319)

“I’m not sure Elizabeth will ever be ready to learn what you did to Katarina.” (Dembe, 422)

“[Katarina] is gone because of choices you made.” (Dom, 320)

In “Cape May”, Red hallucinated forgiveness/absolution from Katarina but we don’t know if this is how she actually felt. It could have been just Red trying to make himself feel better about doing what he felt to be necessary. Katarina in the present doesn’t seem to be in a forgiving mood, tho. She clearly expected to be contacted and she clearly considered Red’s presence a threat.

Red: If Moscow is looking for Katarina, if Agent Ressler’s inquiry has reignited their search…The Stranger: Then I know that could be bad.Red: I want this done before Masha’s daughter comes home.

So… your guess is as good as mine here, anon. All we have for now is a whole lot of vaguing and very little concrete info. I agree, it feels there’s sth more to this but there’s just so little to go on, it could be almost anything. What we can conclude is that the Stranger and Red (and Dom) have stayed away from Katarina for almost 30 years and if it hadn’t been for Moscow’s freshly reignited interest in finding her, this complete lack of contact would have remained. They didn’t even keep direct tabs on her since they had no idea what she looked like or where exactly she was or that she was a threat to Red (otherwise he would have approached her differently, imo).

They clearly do not want Kat to be found – the precise “why” remains to be seen. Red’s first words to her are a warning – “it’s not safe” –, and I think he truly went there to make sure she wouldn’t be scooped up. That was his immediate objective. If she were found, the consequences would reach Liz and Agnes, and heading that threat off is what ultimately motivates Red here (→ “I want this done before Masha’s daughter comes home.”). He didn’t look too enthusiastic to make contact. He didn’t want to, he had to.  And he didn’t tell Liz, which suggests that he wants this separation to remain, which suggests that something is up w/ Katarina that goes beyond the usual “you can’t be in her life bc it’s dangerous” reason. Dom stayed out of Liz’s life, too, for safety reasons yet Red told him to find Liz if anything happened to him. That doesn’t seem to be the case w/ Kat at all. Red himself stayed away from her yet he went to find Dom after Liz “death” and returned several times after that for advice or simply for his company.

The meeting w/ Kat wasn’t a social call and it did not feel like a romantic reunion, either. Red just looked sad and tense to me. And he clearly did not expect to be stabbed, so I don’t think that bit was part of any planned performance. Why he received that treatment is another good question. Kat has clearly come into the possession of some new info that compelled her to go on the offensive. It could be related to their past and that vague remark about what Red did to her OR it is about something more recent that Red wasn’t aware she was aware of?? Right now this moment feels like a convergence of two separate threads: Red came to warn her based on “undisclosed plot point A” and Katarina reacted to him based on “undisclosed plot point B”.

Oh, I love this song, anon. Antis can keep pointing at that awkward kiss (that he doesn’t even initiate, she keeps pushing her face into his) as evidence of some ~epic romance~ all they want, but once again they fail (and/or refuse) to see things in context and “Cape May” was already pretty clear wrt Red’s feelings, I agree. and the finale lines up w/ it, too, which is nice.

Red hasn’t seen her in 30 years yet he only decided to contact Kat bc her looming exposure threatened Liz and Agnes, and when he is shown a picture of her, this is his reaction:

Not exactly what I’d expect from a dude in love (even if it were unrequited). He had a way more emotional reaction to Dembe’s return and he only left like a week ago. This is more like how you react when someone shows you photographic evidence of Bigfoot chilling in their hot tub w/ a beer. And now we know Red knew all along that Katarina was alive, so him “designating” Liz as the woman he loves and confessing (several times both to her and others) that without her he has nothing to live for and saying her name as his last word speak volumes already. So if they wanted to sell Red/Kat, they have already undercut themselves on multiple fronts here by giving literally all the romance tropes to Red/Liz. But I don’t believe they are selling R/K, it’s just another smoke screen + Kat is part of a past both Red and Liz have to settle for the sake of their future. And settling the past is always easier and more fruitful to do w/ a living human than w/ a ghost or a hallucination.

Yeah, I think it’s there to signal that they (Dom and Kat included) go way back and were/are close, like you said. and to indicate shared Russian roots, perhaps. As I said above, I still think Red is Ilya and the Stranger is likely Russian, too, (and so is Dom), so using Liz’s original Russian name makes sense in this context of “Russian togetherness”.

and Red sometimes calls her Masha around Dom, too, bc that’s what Dom calls her bc that’s who she still is to Dom. And I think that’s why Red calls her Elizabeth bc that’s who she is to him, which is a nice little detail further emphasizing that his main/defining connection to her is the present one just as James keeps saying. Or as Red puts it on-screen

I can def see both sides here, anon, and more. Knowing what we know about Red, both are likely among the multiple reasons that underpin his behavior in this scene. Yes, on the one hand, he was pressed for time and wanted that Kat thing done as soon as possible. On the other, he was also kinda closed-off as if he were trying to hold back emotionally as well as physically, which I think flows from 2 main sources: 1) he feels uncomfortable w/ the labels Liz wants to push on him (ever since the pilot he’s been displaying a preference for “partner” and not “father” and he might be reaching his saturation point) and 2) he is still heartbroken and afraid to put himself out there again w/ Liz after three major betrayals in a row. He’s already had a sort of baseline distress due to how emotionally vulnerable he is to Liz at all times, so after this latest heartbreak I think he is just trying to take things slow, leaving space and time for Liz and himself to figure out a mutually acceptable way to fit together.

She’s been using his heart as a knife block to satisfy her own needs and I think it’s making him less and less willing to force himself into slots that feel uncomfortable to him. She just decided that him playing dad and grandad is what suits him but a week ago she thought life in prison suited him the best. I mean… that’s not how you relationship. At all. Relationships are ongoing negotiations where all involved need to consent to their “roles”. It’s not “I hate you now, so I will put you in prison” and then “I love you now, so stay for dinner”. After everything that’s happened, I am not surprised Red is pushing back a little here for the sake of (what’s left of) his own sanity. He is a deeply flawed, problematique human being but he is still a human being and not a toy.

Liz and Agnes are the most important to him and he would never ever force his preferences on them, I completely agree. But that doesn’t mean Liz should be allowed to force her preferences on him esp when those change so often and so drastically bc she clearly doesn’t know what she really wants from him yet. I think this realization is finally truly dawning on this guilt-ridden, lovesick idiot and that’s part of what we see in this scene, esp in that “I don’t wanna intrude” comment that really does feel like a pointed retreat from her abrupt park bench declaration. But of course there is no negotiation w/o talking and that’s what Liz wanted to do before Red shut her down, so…

bottom line (that’s been the same for 6 years): these 2 need to talk.

[gordonwilliamsweb]

Conceived Through ‘Fertility Fraud,’ She Now Needs Fertility Treatment

When Heather Woock was in her late 20s, she started researching her family history. As part of the project, she spit into a tube and sent it to Ancestry, a consumer DNA testing service. Then, in 2017, she started getting messages about the results from people who said they could be half siblings.

“I immediately called my mom and said, ‘Mom, is it possible that I have random siblings out there somewhere?'” said Woock, of Indianapolis. She recalled her mom responded, “No, why? That’s ridiculous.”

But the messages continued, and some of them mentioned an Indianapolis fertility practice that she knew her mom had consulted when she had trouble conceiving.

Woock researched and finally learned the truth. Dr. Donald Cline, the fertility doctor her mother saw in 1985, is her biological father.

“I went through an identity crisis,” she said. “I couldn’t look in the mirror and think about, ‘Where did my eyes come from? Where did my hair color come from?’ I didn’t even want to think about any of that.”

Woock hadn’t known that her mom had used artificial insemination to conceive her, and neither of them knew the doctor had used his own sperm.

“We now know Cline used his own sample and squirted it into my mom,” Woock said.

In the 1970s and ’80s, Cline deceived dozens of patients and used his sperm to impregnate them. He has more than 60 biological children — and counting.

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For Woock, as the story of her parentage sunk in, it was distressing for another reason: She wanted to start her own family and was having trouble conceiving. And now she needed to turn to the fertility industry that had so badly betrayed her mom.

“We were doing all of the calendaring … everything that is out there to help you get pregnant, we were doing that,” Woock recalled.

But after six months, when she still wasn’t pregnant at 32, she went to a fertility clinic for some tests.

“I had to fill out all this paperwork, and there’s a slot that says kind of like, ‘Is there anything else you’d like to share?’ ” Woock said.

Yes, there most certainly was.

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The Odds Of ‘Fertility Fraud’ These Days

New allegations of doctors using their own sperm keep coming to light — because of genetic-testing services like Ancestry revealing networks of half siblings — in states like Idaho, Ohio, Colorado and Arkansas.

But those doctors performed artificial inseminations decades ago. Could what happened to Woock’s mom happen in a modern fertility clinic?

Dr. Bob Colver, a fertility specialist in Carmel, Indiana, said it’s a question many of his patients have asked. But it’s unlikely, he said. These days, there are more people involved in the process, and in vitro fertilization happens in a lab, not an exam room.

“Unless you’re in a small clinic where there’s absolutely no checks and balances, I can’t even imagine that today,” Colver said.

It’s now illegal in Indiana, Texas and California for a doctor to use his sperm to impregnate his patients. But there’s no national law criminalizing what’s called “fertility fraud.”

A photo of Larry Hobson holding his daughter, Heather Woock, as an infant. Woock’s mother consulted with a fertility doctor when she was having trouble getting pregnant.(Leah Klafczynski for NPR)

Fertility medicine has advanced a lot since the 1980s, but women trying to get pregnant today with the help of medicine face a baffling array of treatment options that can be hard to navigate and can be hugely expensive. And some critics say the growing, multibillion-dollar fertility industry needs more regulation.

For example, sperm banks may not get accurate medical histories from their donors, who could pass along genetic diseases. And there’s no limit on how many times a donor’s sperm can be used, which some donor children worry could increase the chance of inbreeding. Sperm donation guidelines from organizations like the American Society for Reproductive Medicine are voluntary. There was a contestant on “The Bachelorette” last year who said his sperm had helped father more than 100 kids.

Unrealistic Expectations

When Woock decided to get her first fertility treatment, she set preconditions with the clinic. She insisted on having a female doctor and insisted that a doctor be in the room for all appointments and oversee everything that happened.

Her experience with her clinic was very different from her mother’s with Cline, but nonetheless there were surprises along the way.

The clinic told her that her problems conceiving could be because of husband Rob’s low sperm count and motility (meaning his sperm weren’t great swimmers). They advised a form of in vitro fertilization that involved injecting one sperm directly into one of her eggs in a petri dish.

When doctors told Woock she needed IVF, she felt pretty optimistic.

“I’m thinking going into this that our chances of success are 70, 75%,” Woock said.

A 1985 photo of Kimberly Hobson (left) pregnant with her daughter, Heather. Kimberly is photographed alongside her husband, Larry Hobson, as well as relatives who were also expecting.(Leah Klafczynski for NPR)

Fertility treatment can be really expensive, and patients may start treatment with unrealistic expectations. That’s because success rates are complicated, and some clinics use only the best numbers in their advertising.

For example, clinics can advertise high fertilization rates. But a 70% fertilization rate doesn’t mean 70% of eggs turn into babies — plenty can go wrong after the lab combines egg and sperm.

Success depends on your age, your clinic and the type of procedure you need. But most of the time, assisted reproduction procedures such as IVF don’t work. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which tracks assisted reproduction rates in the U.S., reports only about 24% of attempts result in a baby.

‘Add-On’ Technology — And Prices

When Woock started her first IVF cycle, she gave herself shots, a couple a day, to stimulate her ovaries to get multiple eggs ready at once. Multiple eggs means more chances for fertilization.

But the drugs have side effects. They gave her headaches and made her moody and less patient.

“I was actually allergic to one of the medications, which just means that you keep taking it and deal with the itching and rash,” Woock said.

But she hung on until it was time for a doctor to surgically retrieve her eggs, at which point patients can face even more choices. Because the couple’s fertility problem appeared to be with Rob’s sperm, the clinic offered to use a special device to help pick the best sperm for IVF.

“We were kind of like, ‘Yeah, why wouldn’t you?'” Woock said. “If it’s gonna give us a better chance, do it.”

A device like that is called an add-on. Add-ons are often new technology, described as cutting-edge, which can appeal to patients. Examples of add-ons include genetic testing for chromosomal abnormalities in embryos — which some specialists argue improves the odds of a live birth — and assisted hatching and endometrial scratching, both methods claiming to facilitate implantation.

An exam table at Midwest Fertility Specialists, a fertility clinic in Carmel, Indiana.(Lauren Bavis/WFYI)

Jack Wilkinson, a biostatistician at the University of Manchester in England, researches add-ons, which he has found can increase costs — and, he said, they may not work.

“We quite often see there’s no benefit at all,” Wilkinson said. “Or, possibly even worse, that there’s a disadvantage of using that treatment.”

Wilkinson said the device Woock’s clinic offered could work, but the evidence supporting it is thin.

Failed Fertilizations

The clinic called Woock the morning after her egg retrieval. None of Woock’s eggs fertilized. The procedure revealed that her husband’s sperm quality wasn’t the only fertility issue the couple faced.

“They immediately saw that there was something wrong with my eggs,” Woock said. “My eggs are just total crap.”

She underwent a second round of IVF with the same result — no fertilization.

“Getting that news the second time … felt even more set in stone that this was going to be a very long, challenging road,” Woock said.

Challenging and expensive. Most states, including Indiana, don’t require insurers to cover fertility treatment. Without insurance, a round of IVF can cost more than $10,000 — even more than $20,000 — with no guarantee the patient will get pregnant.

Woock was lucky that her employer-provided insurance covered a lot. But it still wasn’t cheap. She had to pay for some medications, “plus, you have to pay lab and facility fees that insurance doesn’t pay,” Woock said.

Donor sperm and eggs aren’t generally covered, either. Those can be tens of thousands of dollars.

Woock faced a hard choice: After two failed attempts, did she want a kid enough to go through IVF again? She and her husband decided they did. So Woock did a third round of IVF. And then a fourth. When that didn’t work, she gave up on using her own eggs.

“What I expected as I was growing up and picturing my children is not what I will see,” Woock said.

Woock and her husband decided to try donor eggs. If all goes according to plan, she could still carry a child. She wants to keep trying.

“I realize that pregnancy is incredibly challenging on your body and your mental state,” she said. “If I can make it through a year of IVF, I can make it through morning sickness.”

This story is part of a partnership that includes Side Effects Public Media, NPR and Kaiser Health News. The story was adapted from Episode 6 of the podcast Sick. You can hear more about the fallout from Dr. Donald Cline’s deception on Sick’s first season, at sickpodcast.org.

Conceived Through ‘Fertility Fraud,’ She Now Needs Fertility Treatment published first on https://nootropicspowdersupplier.tumblr.com/

[stephenmccull]

Conceived Through ‘Fertility Fraud,’ She Now Needs Fertility Treatment

When Heather Woock was in her late 20s, she started researching her family history. As part of the project, she spit into a tube and sent it to Ancestry, a consumer DNA testing service. Then, in 2017, she started getting messages about the results from people who said they could be half siblings.

“I immediately called my mom and said, ‘Mom, is it possible that I have random siblings out there somewhere?'” said Woock, of Indianapolis. She recalled her mom responded, “No, why? That’s ridiculous.”

But the messages continued, and some of them mentioned an Indianapolis fertility practice that she knew her mom had consulted when she had trouble conceiving.

Woock researched and finally learned the truth. Dr. Donald Cline, the fertility doctor her mother saw in 1985, is her biological father.

“I went through an identity crisis,” she said. “I couldn’t look in the mirror and think about, ‘Where did my eyes come from? Where did my hair color come from?’ I didn’t even want to think about any of that.”

Woock hadn’t known that her mom had used artificial insemination to conceive her, and neither of them knew the doctor had used his own sperm.

“We now know Cline used his own sample and squirted it into my mom,” Woock said.

In the 1970s and ’80s, Cline deceived dozens of patients and used his sperm to impregnate them. He has more than 60 biological children — and counting.

( function() { var func = function() { var iframe = document.getElementById('wpcom-iframe-90b3aacb5fc66ef80232eedeb65fa548') if ( iframe ) { iframe.onload = function() { iframe.contentWindow.postMessage( { 'msg_type': 'poll_size', 'frame_id': 'wpcom-iframe-90b3aacb5fc66ef80232eedeb65fa548' }, "https:\/\/embeds.kff.org" ); } } // Autosize iframe var funcSizeResponse = function( e ) { var origin = document.createElement( 'a' ); origin.href = e.origin; // Verify message origin if ( 'embeds.kff.org' !== origin.host ) return; // Verify message is in a format we expect if ( 'object' !== typeof e.data || undefined === e.data.msg_type ) return; switch ( e.data.msg_type ) { case 'poll_size:response': var iframe = document.getElementById( e.data._request.frame_id ); if ( iframe && '' === iframe.width ) iframe.width = '100%'; if ( iframe && '' === iframe.height ) iframe.height = parseInt( e.data.height ); return; default: return; } } if ( 'function' === typeof window.addEventListener ) { window.addEventListener( 'message', funcSizeResponse, false ); } else if ( 'function' === typeof window.attachEvent ) { window.attachEvent( 'onmessage', funcSizeResponse ); } } if (document.readyState === 'complete') { func.apply(); /* compat for infinite scroll */ } else if ( document.addEventListener ) { document.addEventListener( 'DOMContentLoaded', func, false ); } else if ( document.attachEvent ) { document.attachEvent( 'onreadystatechange', func ); } } )();

For Woock, as the story of her parentage sunk in, it was distressing for another reason: She wanted to start her own family and was having trouble conceiving. And now she needed to turn to the fertility industry that had so badly betrayed her mom.

“We were doing all of the calendaring … everything that is out there to help you get pregnant, we were doing that,” Woock recalled.

But after six months, when she still wasn’t pregnant at 32, she went to a fertility clinic for some tests.

“I had to fill out all this paperwork, and there’s a slot that says kind of like, ‘Is there anything else you’d like to share?’ ” Woock said.

Yes, there most certainly was.

Email Sign-Up

Subscribe to KHN’s free Morning Briefing.

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Please confirm your email address below:

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The Odds Of ‘Fertility Fraud’ These Days

New allegations of doctors using their own sperm keep coming to light — because of genetic-testing services like Ancestry revealing networks of half siblings — in states like Idaho, Ohio, Colorado and Arkansas.

But those doctors performed artificial inseminations decades ago. Could what happened to Woock’s mom happen in a modern fertility clinic?

Dr. Bob Colver, a fertility specialist in Carmel, Indiana, said it’s a question many of his patients have asked. But it’s unlikely, he said. These days, there are more people involved in the process, and in vitro fertilization happens in a lab, not an exam room.

“Unless you’re in a small clinic where there’s absolutely no checks and balances, I can’t even imagine that today,” Colver said.

It’s now illegal in Indiana, Texas and California for a doctor to use his sperm to impregnate his patients. But there’s no national law criminalizing what’s called “fertility fraud.”

A photo of Larry Hobson holding his daughter, Heather Woock, as an infant. Woock’s mother consulted with a fertility doctor when she was having trouble getting pregnant.(Leah Klafczynski for NPR)

Fertility medicine has advanced a lot since the 1980s, but women trying to get pregnant today with the help of medicine face a baffling array of treatment options that can be hard to navigate and can be hugely expensive. And some critics say the growing, multibillion-dollar fertility industry needs more regulation.

For example, sperm banks may not get accurate medical histories from their donors, who could pass along genetic diseases. And there’s no limit on how many times a donor’s sperm can be used, which some donor children worry could increase the chance of inbreeding. Sperm donation guidelines from organizations like the American Society for Reproductive Medicine are voluntary. There was a contestant on “The Bachelorette” last year who said his sperm had helped father more than 100 kids.

Unrealistic Expectations

When Woock decided to get her first fertility treatment, she set preconditions with the clinic. She insisted on having a female doctor and insisted that a doctor be in the room for all appointments and oversee everything that happened.

Her experience with her clinic was very different from her mother’s with Cline, but nonetheless there were surprises along the way.

The clinic told her that her problems conceiving could be because of husband Rob’s low sperm count and motility (meaning his sperm weren’t great swimmers). They advised a form of in vitro fertilization that involved injecting one sperm directly into one of her eggs in a petri dish.

When doctors told Woock she needed IVF, she felt pretty optimistic.

“I’m thinking going into this that our chances of success are 70, 75%,” Woock said.

A 1985 photo of Kimberly Hobson (left) pregnant with her daughter, Heather. Kimberly is photographed alongside her husband, Larry Hobson, as well as relatives who were also expecting.(Leah Klafczynski for NPR)

Fertility treatment can be really expensive, and patients may start treatment with unrealistic expectations. That’s because success rates are complicated, and some clinics use only the best numbers in their advertising.

For example, clinics can advertise high fertilization rates. But a 70% fertilization rate doesn’t mean 70% of eggs turn into babies — plenty can go wrong after the lab combines egg and sperm.

Success depends on your age, your clinic and the type of procedure you need. But most of the time, assisted reproduction procedures such as IVF don’t work. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which tracks assisted reproduction rates in the U.S., reports only about 24% of attempts result in a baby.

‘Add-On’ Technology — And Prices

When Woock started her first IVF cycle, she gave herself shots, a couple a day, to stimulate her ovaries to get multiple eggs ready at once. Multiple eggs means more chances for fertilization.

But the drugs have side effects. They gave her headaches and made her moody and less patient.

“I was actually allergic to one of the medications, which just means that you keep taking it and deal with the itching and rash,” Woock said.

But she hung on until it was time for a doctor to surgically retrieve her eggs, at which point patients can face even more choices. Because the couple’s fertility problem appeared to be with Rob’s sperm, the clinic offered to use a special device to help pick the best sperm for IVF.

“We were kind of like, ‘Yeah, why wouldn’t you?'” Woock said. “If it’s gonna give us a better chance, do it.”

A device like that is called an add-on. Add-ons are often new technology, described as cutting-edge, which can appeal to patients. Examples of add-ons include genetic testing for chromosomal abnormalities in embryos — which some specialists argue improves the odds of a live birth — and assisted hatching and endometrial scratching, both methods claiming to facilitate implantation.

An exam table at Midwest Fertility Specialists, a fertility clinic in Carmel, Indiana.(Lauren Bavis/WFYI)

Jack Wilkinson, a biostatistician at the University of Manchester in England, researches add-ons, which he has found can increase costs — and, he said, they may not work.

“We quite often see there’s no benefit at all,” Wilkinson said. “Or, possibly even worse, that there’s a disadvantage of using that treatment.”

Wilkinson said the device Woock’s clinic offered could work, but the evidence supporting it is thin.

Failed Fertilizations

The clinic called Woock the morning after her egg retrieval. None of Woock’s eggs fertilized. The procedure revealed that her husband’s sperm quality wasn’t the only fertility issue the couple faced.

“They immediately saw that there was something wrong with my eggs,” Woock said. “My eggs are just total crap.”

She underwent a second round of IVF with the same result — no fertilization.

“Getting that news the second time … felt even more set in stone that this was going to be a very long, challenging road,” Woock said.

Challenging and expensive. Most states, including Indiana, don’t require insurers to cover fertility treatment. Without insurance, a round of IVF can cost more than $10,000 — even more than $20,000 — with no guarantee the patient will get pregnant.

Woock was lucky that her employer-provided insurance covered a lot. But it still wasn’t cheap. She had to pay for some medications, “plus, you have to pay lab and facility fees that insurance doesn’t pay,” Woock said.

Donor sperm and eggs aren’t generally covered, either. Those can be tens of thousands of dollars.

Woock faced a hard choice: After two failed attempts, did she want a kid enough to go through IVF again? She and her husband decided they did. So Woock did a third round of IVF. And then a fourth. When that didn’t work, she gave up on using her own eggs.

“What I expected as I was growing up and picturing my children is not what I will see,” Woock said.

Woock and her husband decided to try donor eggs. If all goes according to plan, she could still carry a child. She wants to keep trying.

“I realize that pregnancy is incredibly challenging on your body and your mental state,” she said. “If I can make it through a year of IVF, I can make it through morning sickness.”

This story is part of a partnership that includes Side Effects Public Media, NPR and Kaiser Health News. The story was adapted from Episode 6 of the podcast Sick. You can hear more about the fallout from Dr. Donald Cline’s deception on Sick’s first season, at sickpodcast.org.

Conceived Through ‘Fertility Fraud,’ She Now Needs Fertility Treatment published first on https://smartdrinkingweb.weebly.com/

[dinafbrownil]

Conceived Through ‘Fertility Fraud,’ She Now Needs Fertility Treatment

When Heather Woock was in her late 20s, she started researching her family history. As part of the project, she spit into a tube and sent it to Ancestry, a consumer DNA testing service. Then, in 2017, she started getting messages about the results from people who said they could be half siblings.

“I immediately called my mom and said, ‘Mom, is it possible that I have random siblings out there somewhere?'” said Woock, of Indianapolis. She recalled her mom responded, “No, why? That’s ridiculous.”

But the messages continued, and some of them mentioned an Indianapolis fertility practice that she knew her mom had consulted when she had trouble conceiving.

Woock researched and finally learned the truth. Dr. Donald Cline, the fertility doctor her mother saw in 1985, is her biological father.

“I went through an identity crisis,” she said. “I couldn’t look in the mirror and think about, ‘Where did my eyes come from? Where did my hair color come from?’ I didn’t even want to think about any of that.”

Woock hadn’t known that her mom had used artificial insemination to conceive her, and neither of them knew the doctor had used his own sperm.

“We now know Cline used his own sample and squirted it into my mom,” Woock said.

In the 1970s and ’80s, Cline deceived dozens of patients and used his sperm to impregnate them. He has more than 60 biological children — and counting.

( function() { var func = function() { var iframe = document.getElementById('wpcom-iframe-90b3aacb5fc66ef80232eedeb65fa548') if ( iframe ) { iframe.onload = function() { iframe.contentWindow.postMessage( { 'msg_type': 'poll_size', 'frame_id': 'wpcom-iframe-90b3aacb5fc66ef80232eedeb65fa548' }, "https:\/\/embeds.kff.org" ); } } // Autosize iframe var funcSizeResponse = function( e ) { var origin = document.createElement( 'a' ); origin.href = e.origin; // Verify message origin if ( 'embeds.kff.org' !== origin.host ) return; // Verify message is in a format we expect if ( 'object' !== typeof e.data || undefined === e.data.msg_type ) return; switch ( e.data.msg_type ) { case 'poll_size:response': var iframe = document.getElementById( e.data._request.frame_id ); if ( iframe && '' === iframe.width ) iframe.width = '100%'; if ( iframe && '' === iframe.height ) iframe.height = parseInt( e.data.height ); return; default: return; } } if ( 'function' === typeof window.addEventListener ) { window.addEventListener( 'message', funcSizeResponse, false ); } else if ( 'function' === typeof window.attachEvent ) { window.attachEvent( 'onmessage', funcSizeResponse ); } } if (document.readyState === 'complete') { func.apply(); /* compat for infinite scroll */ } else if ( document.addEventListener ) { document.addEventListener( 'DOMContentLoaded', func, false ); } else if ( document.attachEvent ) { document.attachEvent( 'onreadystatechange', func ); } } )();

For Woock, as the story of her parentage sunk in, it was distressing for another reason: She wanted to start her own family and was having trouble conceiving. And now she needed to turn to the fertility industry that had so badly betrayed her mom.

“We were doing all of the calendaring … everything that is out there to help you get pregnant, we were doing that,” Woock recalled.

But after six months, when she still wasn’t pregnant at 32, she went to a fertility clinic for some tests.

“I had to fill out all this paperwork, and there’s a slot that says kind of like, ‘Is there anything else you’d like to share?’ ” Woock said.

Yes, there most certainly was.

Email Sign-Up

Subscribe to KHN’s free Morning Briefing.

Sign Up

Please confirm your email address below:

Sign Up

The Odds Of ‘Fertility Fraud’ These Days

New allegations of doctors using their own sperm keep coming to light — because of genetic-testing services like Ancestry revealing networks of half siblings — in states like Idaho, Ohio, Colorado and Arkansas.

But those doctors performed artificial inseminations decades ago. Could what happened to Woock’s mom happen in a modern fertility clinic?

Dr. Bob Colver, a fertility specialist in Carmel, Indiana, said it’s a question many of his patients have asked. But it’s unlikely, he said. These days, there are more people involved in the process, and in vitro fertilization happens in a lab, not an exam room.

“Unless you’re in a small clinic where there’s absolutely no checks and balances, I can’t even imagine that today,” Colver said.

It’s now illegal in Indiana, Texas and California for a doctor to use his sperm to impregnate his patients. But there’s no national law criminalizing what’s called “fertility fraud.”

A photo of Larry Hobson holding his daughter, Heather Woock, as an infant. Woock’s mother consulted with a fertility doctor when she was having trouble getting pregnant.(Leah Klafczynski for NPR)

Fertility medicine has advanced a lot since the 1980s, but women trying to get pregnant today with the help of medicine face a baffling array of treatment options that can be hard to navigate and can be hugely expensive. And some critics say the growing, multibillion-dollar fertility industry needs more regulation.

For example, sperm banks may not get accurate medical histories from their donors, who could pass along genetic diseases. And there’s no limit on how many times a donor’s sperm can be used, which some donor children worry could increase the chance of inbreeding. Sperm donation guidelines from organizations like the American Society for Reproductive Medicine are voluntary. There was a contestant on “The Bachelorette” last year who said his sperm had helped father more than 100 kids.

Unrealistic Expectations

When Woock decided to get her first fertility treatment, she set preconditions with the clinic. She insisted on having a female doctor and insisted that a doctor be in the room for all appointments and oversee everything that happened.

Her experience with her clinic was very different from her mother’s with Cline, but nonetheless there were surprises along the way.

The clinic told her that her problems conceiving could be because of husband Rob’s low sperm count and motility (meaning his sperm weren’t great swimmers). They advised a form of in vitro fertilization that involved injecting one sperm directly into one of her eggs in a petri dish.

When doctors told Woock she needed IVF, she felt pretty optimistic.

“I’m thinking going into this that our chances of success are 70, 75%,” Woock said.

A 1985 photo of Kimberly Hobson (left) pregnant with her daughter, Heather. Kimberly is photographed alongside her husband, Larry Hobson, as well as relatives who were also expecting.(Leah Klafczynski for NPR)

Fertility treatment can be really expensive, and patients may start treatment with unrealistic expectations. That’s because success rates are complicated, and some clinics use only the best numbers in their advertising.

For example, clinics can advertise high fertilization rates. But a 70% fertilization rate doesn’t mean 70% of eggs turn into babies — plenty can go wrong after the lab combines egg and sperm.

Success depends on your age, your clinic and the type of procedure you need. But most of the time, assisted reproduction procedures such as IVF don’t work. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which tracks assisted reproduction rates in the U.S., reports only about 24% of attempts result in a baby.

‘Add-On’ Technology — And Prices

When Woock started her first IVF cycle, she gave herself shots, a couple a day, to stimulate her ovaries to get multiple eggs ready at once. Multiple eggs means more chances for fertilization.

But the drugs have side effects. They gave her headaches and made her moody and less patient.

“I was actually allergic to one of the medications, which just means that you keep taking it and deal with the itching and rash,” Woock said.

But she hung on until it was time for a doctor to surgically retrieve her eggs, at which point patients can face even more choices. Because the couple’s fertility problem appeared to be with Rob’s sperm, the clinic offered to use a special device to help pick the best sperm for IVF.

“We were kind of like, ‘Yeah, why wouldn’t you?'” Woock said. “If it’s gonna give us a better chance, do it.”

A device like that is called an add-on. Add-ons are often new technology, described as cutting-edge, which can appeal to patients. Examples of add-ons include genetic testing for chromosomal abnormalities in embryos — which some specialists argue improves the odds of a live birth — and assisted hatching and endometrial scratching, both methods claiming to facilitate implantation.

An exam table at Midwest Fertility Specialists, a fertility clinic in Carmel, Indiana.(Lauren Bavis/WFYI)

Jack Wilkinson, a biostatistician at the University of Manchester in England, researches add-ons, which he has found can increase costs — and, he said, they may not work.

“We quite often see there’s no benefit at all,” Wilkinson said. “Or, possibly even worse, that there’s a disadvantage of using that treatment.”

Wilkinson said the device Woock’s clinic offered could work, but the evidence supporting it is thin.

Failed Fertilizations

The clinic called Woock the morning after her egg retrieval. None of Woock’s eggs fertilized. The procedure revealed that her husband’s sperm quality wasn’t the only fertility issue the couple faced.

“They immediately saw that there was something wrong with my eggs,” Woock said. “My eggs are just total crap.”

She underwent a second round of IVF with the same result — no fertilization.

“Getting that news the second time … felt even more set in stone that this was going to be a very long, challenging road,” Woock said.

Challenging and expensive. Most states, including Indiana, don’t require insurers to cover fertility treatment. Without insurance, a round of IVF can cost more than $10,000 — even more than $20,000 — with no guarantee the patient will get pregnant.

Woock was lucky that her employer-provided insurance covered a lot. But it still wasn’t cheap. She had to pay for some medications, “plus, you have to pay lab and facility fees that insurance doesn’t pay,” Woock said.

Donor sperm and eggs aren’t generally covered, either. Those can be tens of thousands of dollars.

Woock faced a hard choice: After two failed attempts, did she want a kid enough to go through IVF again? She and her husband decided they did. So Woock did a third round of IVF. And then a fourth. When that didn’t work, she gave up on using her own eggs.

“What I expected as I was growing up and picturing my children is not what I will see,” Woock said.

Woock and her husband decided to try donor eggs. If all goes according to plan, she could still carry a child. She wants to keep trying.

“I realize that pregnancy is incredibly challenging on your body and your mental state,” she said. “If I can make it through a year of IVF, I can make it through morning sickness.”

This story is part of a partnership that includes Side Effects Public Media, NPR and Kaiser Health News. The story was adapted from Episode 6 of the podcast Sick. You can hear more about the fallout from Dr. Donald Cline’s deception on Sick’s first season, at sickpodcast.org.

from Updates By Dina https://khn.org/news/conceived-through-fertility-fraud-she-now-needs-fertility-treatment/