#But none of them are willing to tell me the resolution they're using nor the other more technical details that I could use to sort this

[maeamian]

About to go insane trying to find sources for this, but starting to develop a theory that the idea that the bottom of the ocean is totally unknown is pretty outdated, but is an extremely compelling factoid and as such has persisted longer than it is true.

[jamesbi-canonbarnes]

I'm having trouble connecting the emotional through line between episodes 2 and 3. In the therapy session Sam tells Bucky they can just finish the mission and then they're done with each other, after that it seems like things have cooled a bit and Bucky even starts to say, "I feel awful" before they get interrupted by Walker. Then in 3 things seems relatively fine between and they even (especially Sam) show some concern for the other?? And Bucky totally still not trying to understand Sam's POV

Ok ok mood. I’m not an expert on writing, but I do have lots of thoughts on this, so lemme talk this through w you (long post ahead). Some of these thoughts are going to be theorizing super hard about what’s going to happen in future eps so for sure take that with a grain of salt.

IMO for a show where the most interesting thing is literally just the emotional states of these two men and how they relate to each other through those emotions, their emotional arcs are not nearly pointed enough for my taste...I suspect that’s partly because we’re pulled back and forth between the more lighthearted banter and the more heartfelt expressions of their internal lives. But also bc, I think, the whole thing is that these two CANT communicate because if they DO, their emotional states will reach RESOLUTION too quickly.

And IMO, I actually think it’s the therapy scene alone that is throwing the balance off leading up to 3. I didn’t feel like threatening not to ever see each other again was earned, or at least it wasn’t clear to me where it’s coming from writing-wise. (Not that I wouldn’t support Sam cutting himself off from the toxicity of someone else’s unfair expectations, if this were real life and not a function of a written story). It just feels too far a swing of the pendulum compared to directly before and after. Sam just saved Bucky, and yes he never got to finish railing Bucky over Isaiah, but *because* that argument didn’t hit its crux, I don’t think it’s enough for most viewers to explain the kind of statement Sam makes in the therapy scene. Yes Sam does keep shutting Bucky down in a lot of ways, but we also know that before Bucky confronted him in episode 2, he was doing the opposite and trying to reach out to Bucky. So it feels a bit confusing to me. I don’t know what Sam wants, besides to be left alone, and that itself feels neither genuine nor like good enough motivation on a character level for this story. So. In lieu of any other story reason, I guess I think Sam’s reaction in the therapy scene is a way to artificially raise the emotional stakes so that the eventual resolution is more satisfying. That’s the only thing I can think, although if that’s the case, they started building back up extremely quickly.

Bc you’re absolutely correct, immediately after that therapy scene, Bucky is upset but clearly wants to communicate that to Sam, contrary to any agreement to squash it and move on. And though there’s no time for dialogue then, they approach walker/Hoskins essentially a united (though frustrated) front. And then after that and all through ep 3, though they are functionally on opposite sides of the entire zemo argument in every way, Sam basically rolls over repeatedly throughout and actually ends up expressing more care for Bucky than we’ve previously seen and also opens up to him more... and IMO bucky breaking zemo out of prison without asking and with clear premeditation was a major violation of trust, for which Sam was not afforded the opportunity to express proportional ire. (For me Bucky’s speech there asking Sam to do it for him did not hit as reasonable motivation for sam). You would think after the level of ire sam expressed to bucky’s genuine (though self centered) vulnerability in the therapy session, the level of ire to bucky’s lies and even “betrayal” (as I see it) would be notable. It should be at least above essentially saying “you’re dead to me once your usefulness runs out” which I think is the dark but fair implication of “let’s just finish this and never speak again” or whatever he said in the therapy scene. Instead he says a reluctant version of “ok, I’ll do exactly what I just explicitly said I didn’t want to do, just because you asked.”

The thing is, clearly neither of them actually hate each other. They have both repeatedly shown genuine care for the other. So why is the animosity even happening?

The emotional throughlines should help us figure that out, and vice versa. So what I’m thinking is, a throughline has to have a beginning and an end, and figuring out those can help you figure out what the points in the middle should be. Here the beginning of Bucky’s emotional throughline w Sam is clearly from a starting point of straight up misplacing his grief and aggression onto Sam, bc he’s projecting Sam as the distant figurehead of stability to replace Steve. His not understanding Sam on a personal level is the primary obstacle to his realizing and resolving that entire emotional throughline, thus the end point of the throughline necessarily requires passing through Bucky understanding Sam’s POV and empathizing with Sam. In my prediction, that empathy leads to self actualization through purposefully accessing his own feelings (rather than letting his blocked emotions break through and then ignoring both the cause and consequences of them). Then he can start down a path of true restitution leading to his own healing through healing his relationships.

IMO bucky has never hated Sam. He has always fully just been jealous of him. Jealous of how happy he is, how few problems he pretends to have, and his relationship with Steve, if you want to go there.

So because Bucky does not hate Sam, there isn’t really anywhere to go after hitting the mark of seeing Sam’s POV... besides, essentially, restitution as resolution. Bc it’s through that realization>restitution that Bucky’s going to have to face the actual issue, of who he actually hates. Only then can he heal. He doesn’t have to forgive Sam. He has to forgive himself. So that he can restore himself, which he can only do after restoring Sam.

(And, if they’re really going to go there, he has to forgive Steve. I’m unsure if that’s going to be directly drawn for us or not)

I think that bucky’s throughline will resolve itself relatively quickly after Sam gets what he needs from Bucky, hence why he can’t have it yet. So in the meantime, Bucky comes off as frankly a bad friend who is self absorbed/entitled and unwilling to unlearn white supremacy bc it requires uncomfortable empathy with a Black man.

Sam’s emotional throughline as filtered through how he relates to Bucky is a little harder for me to grasp, I’ll be honest. Obviously the end point the emotional throughline has to underline is accepting the mantle of captain America (accepting himself?) So maybe that is woven among the throughline of his journey to accepting Bucky as an ally??, but I’m not sure what the starting point even is to be honest.

I do think that what is clearer (at least to me, and maybe this is only applicable to me?) about Sam is that we as the informed audience already know an important part of why he gave up the shield. It’s very much about race. Sam has not expressed that to Bucky, but we know it. Bucky has no idea that this is about race—or more accurately, that’s it’s about trauma regarding race. He hasn’t connected Sam’s ultimate motivation to Sam’s statements and experience re: race. Sam has certainly expressed anger and hurt, but he hasn’t connected them to race and then to the symbol of captain America for Bucky, whereas they’re already connected for many viewers. I’m not going to give Bucky a pass for not connecting them because that type of ignorance is not neutral. But he clearly does not know, and he DOES keep asking. He has asked multiple times in words why Sam gave up the shield. But instead of giving a direct answer, Sam continues to shut him down, each time literally by refusing to speak and walking away. Now I tend to agree with Sam that it’s none of his business. Sam shouldn’t have to bare his trauma to explain something to Bucky just because Bucky wants him to. Especially when Bucky has not indicated that he’s willing or able to empathize with the reason. And on top of that, it being something sam knows Bucky cannot fully understand? I mean, I’m on Sam’s side here.

But the thing is, the show is setting it up so that Sam has to open up. He has to let Torres touch his machinery (metaphorically) he has to let Bucky get close to him (metaphorically). Sam has to let others in and he has to do it for himself, for his own healing. But I’m not yet sure why that’s so important for his journey, besides the obvious being this is a story about how to heal from trauma from every side.

So right now I think we’re just seeing Sam continue to drop hints both about what his trauma is and about the fact that he cares for Bucky, bc those are the important things for his resolution. This is continuing despite the therapy scene and not because of it, which I find odd, from a writing perspective. And we’re seeing Bucky miss a lot of those hints, bc he’s too busy being defensive to take them as genuine expressions of what they are, of exactly what he’s asking of Sam. That *does* make sense to me from a writing perspective. Because once he understands Sam’s POV, the throughline has to move forward toward resolution.

Idk. I just am not sure that I’m really getting Sam’s arc yet. That’s not to say that it’s not emotionally hitting, necessarily, bc I am firmly finding myself behind Sam.

And allllll of that is just to say: I agree that the emotional throughline feels a bit wobbly here, and I don’t have a way to reconcile it. I will take further suggestions if anyone has them.

[sunnykeysmash]

S14's theme of Trust: How Global Warming reaffirms the Macden meta we already know

Or, a half reworked set of discussions from my Twitter about the underlying themes of FAITH/TRUST and CHANGE present in this season. Particularly between macden because I don't give a damn for the rest. Sidenote: my twitter thread about trust that takes up half of this post was actually written BEFORE GW came out, and despite that it got reinforced thanks to GW meta.

I apologize in advance if the reading isn't as fluid as it could be, it's hard to order the threads in a single cohesive explanation but I still tried my best. Plus, english isn't my first language.

This post contains speculation that links to my previous meta posts, tagged under "iasip meta". That's where I discuss the theme of change more in detail, not here. They're a little outdated in terms of episode prediction but the meta analysis in them holds up and was reinforced in GW.

The bible = Trust/Faith

So, how does faith/trust get in the way of their relationship? Who has it, who doesn't?

Let's address it. This might be long but bear with me I guess. First we need to address what broke their trust.

North Dakota

(aka the element that broke the link of trust between macden for good, from which they are still trying to recover; and how we got there; their shift in dynamic because of it and how it's a vicious cycle that feeds itself until a breaking point, with no possibility for rational discussion. "How Mac will reject Dennis as a final test to restore their trust")

Part 1: how it affected Dennis

It is my understanding that dennis has been left profoundly scarred by how his decision to leave to north dakota went and he has been blaming the gang for failing to stop him from leaving, and especially blaming Mac. Which lead to the events in Chokes.

Where he felt frustrated at Mac for doing everything Dennis says and never going against him. He's constantly pushing him and being abrasive because he wishes for him to snap and act on his own volition.

Because aside from feeling like he can't trust anyone, and like no one in the gang cares for him, he most of all feels like he can't trust himself. He has been scarred by the consequences of his own actions, and doesn't know what else he might do that could have a similar effect.

Of course a person who can't really trust himself would feel paralyzed, they would not act or do anything. Which is why we are moving away from that, slowly. We need to have this progression in order for Dennis to Realize anything at all.

So Chokes as an episode is sort of a milestone, it runs really deep in multiple overarching events and developments. It's not just fixing macden's dynamic, it's beginning to fix a core problem that stops dennis from reaching macden and that has been prominent at least ever since Tends Bar.

It's something that has been going on in the background for a while, that is touched upon sometimes. Dennis desperately wants the gang to care about him.

So when he is surprised by the RPG on the day that for him is most emblematic of the gang not caring, I think it hit deeper than what we're assuming. His feelings were challenged.

DDL is a result of many things. On the surface it's him wanting to be a dad for his child the way Frank never could for him. I think it was also a test though. If they truly cared, they would stop him. They wouldn't want him to go away.

Now. They don't. That stings. Then things possibly go south in North Dakota. That also stings. It's easy to mentally connect the two and realize the hurt he's experiencing. "If they had stopped me, none of this would've happened" I assume is the correlation he made mentally.

So then he probably thought about Mac, and the gesture he made. He thought that meant something, but then him, like the rest of the gang, did nothing. So he's even more angry at him. "For a moment I really thought he cared, why wouldn't he do something?" Betrayal.

So that to me explains why he's been acting like shit towards Mac. And he's been slowly trying to work through his feelings on the matter, as S13 sorta showed initially, with him not wanting to address it at all for a while, and when he tried again no one cared. He's been trying.

I wonder if it's a possibility that, as we reach the resolution to this circumstance, he will try to bring it up again. I wouldn't count on it necessarily, but character wise it would simply make sense. If he's getting over the problem, he's leaving ND behind. He should, I mean.

Part 2: how it affected Mac

But this isn't just a circumstance that hinders Dennis, it has deeply afflicted Mac too, in a way that is just as personal. "No matter what I do for a person, they can still choose to leave me", it is no wonder to see that side of him exacerbated, then.

Before ND, Mac trusted Dennis' words, enough to let him leave if he said he wanted to, even if it hurt. Before ND, Dennis trusted that Mac would always "be there to catch him if he faltered", that he cared, especially after the RPG moment.

These were true. They could always count on each other, trust each other. ND changed everything, and altered their dynamic in a way that we are still feeling, and still trying to remedy. That Mac and Den especially are still desperately trying to remedy.

They /want/ to go back to their codependent dynamic, they /need/ to. But the way they are desperately trying to is only making things worse and worse, and it's a terrible cycle.

[ The more Dennis rejects Mac in hope that Mac will finally go against him, the more Mac is desperately trying to appease Dennis so that he won't leave him, the more Dennis is annoyed and dissatisfied of Mac's submissive behavior and becomes more abrasive in return. ]

Which is why I think discussing that event is a necessity in order for macden to even happen at all. They theoretically need a face to face conversation to resolve these core insecurities that are getting in the way of their friendship (and possibly more).

It doesn't have to be a romantic thing either, it is just necessary for this conflict to be addressed in order for their dynamic to go back to normal. But that can't happen without a breaking point. We know them enough to assume that they're not gonna just discuss it rationally. It would be the correct way to handle the situation, but they're not like that.

Whether everything resolves positively (as in, their dynamic finally shifting back to before ND) depends on how much they want to stay together and what they are willing to sacrifice or compromise for it. Whether certain grievances can be stronger than their bond itself (and I'm pretty sure they can't, or mac and den would've parted already, long ago).

Mac's internal conflict is likely what will make it so that we have to wait a year. If it just isn't resolved, then he would want proof that Dennis isn't /just saying/ stuff. Den might assure him that he isn't but is that enough for Mac?

How do you resolve a conflict that is basically just a huge almost debilitating fear of abandonment and mistrust of the other person's words? In what way can you possibly prove it wrong?

We know Mac loves Dennis, of course he does. But does he trust Dennis? The way he has been behaving towards him tells me otherwise. He doesn't stand up to him.

Not only that but, more specifically, he's always "interpreting" everything Dennis says, you can see it in Texts for example. He knows den never means what he says, and always has an ulterior motive or hidden meaning. He doesn't take den's rejections at heart too much because he knows they're fake.

So now imagine Dennis has a change of heart. Now he goes to Mac, and he tells him Exactly How He Truly Feels. Knowing the way Mac is used to interpreting Dennis, I don't think he'd believe him. He'd want to, but he probably couldn't.

And I don't think Mac even realizes this lack of trust at all. I think it's gonna hit him exactly as it's happening. He might feel happy at first, then be confused at his sense of uneasiness like he's been used and lied to, like Dennis is saying it to manipulate him.

But that's just for words. Physically speaking, I think Mac is very much aware that Dennis has no intention of ever leaving again, nor can he really. That's how it seemed to be in tggr at least.

The abandonment Mac is afraid of is purely emotional at this point with Dennis. It doesn't need to be a "what if he moves out". More of a "what if he doesn't like me anymore and is using me".

So anyway, about the cycle I mentioned earlier.

This feels like a build up. They can't go on like this forever, they will reach a breaking point. I don't expect them to have an honest and open and calm confrontation and solve their differences before a huge snap of both of them happens, I expect the snap.

You know, either Dennis gets too abrasive and Mac finally "snaps out of him", or Mac gets too submissive and Dennis grows tired of him.

However thanks to Chokes and now Global Warming, we can safely predict it'll be the first one. Chokes set us on a path of Mac making his own decisions, which thanks to GW we know will backfire.

They'll fight, Dennis will be overwhelmed by it as Mac ""leaves"", more on that later, first let me finish my discussion on trust.

I find it suspicious how all the episodes with a semblance of resolution that we have had so far only seemed to fix Dennis' conflicts with Macden. We have failed to address Mac's lack of trust in Dennis' words, even in Texts I think. Especially in Texts.

In Texts it wasn't communication that solved the problem, it was an act, a stare. And we only ever heard Dennis' side of it. Mac at this point already believes that Dennis likes him, so there was nothing new for him to discover at the end.

If anything, it reinforced his belief that Dennis says the opposite of what he thinks, that he isn't honest. Because despite how he's been acting all day, he still saw affection in his eyes, I assume.

But Mac has already always paid attention to what Dennis "really meant", I mean, he does it throughout Texts, thought in the wrong way because it was still through text (miscommunication) and he didn't like to consider the alternative.

I put "really meant" in quotations because Dennis doesn't really work like that. Sure a lot of times Dennis doesn't say what he really means so of course Mac would start interpreting him like that, but there are still many times when he's actually honest. This is just Mac's black and white way of seeing den.

Anyway.

As a result of not feeling heard, Dennis actually developed a heavier and more frequent use of sarcasm. Because if people won't do what he says, then maybe if he says the opposite they'll listen to him. It's a reflex born out of frustration.

Back to the "trust" thing now, because see, all this time Dennis has been acting under the underlying assumption that Mac will choose Him every time. Mac doesn't have this assumption, he has been acting to Prevent Dennis from NOT choosing him.

It's gonna be really interesting, if this turns out to be correct, to see the tables be turned and find out that Dennis was the one with faith. We are used to see Mac believe have it, in god and in their relationship, but ultimately it's Dennis that is trusting Mac to make the right decisions. Which includes choosing Dennis every time.

That's a bigass trust to have for someone who says they have no faith. In contrast to that, what faith has Mac put in Dennis? None that I can think of, he actively does stuff that will please dennis, so far.

"leaving"/"rejecting" Dennis in the finale would constitute, again, Mac's faith in Dennis. He would be choosing something that goes right against everything Dennis wants, having faith that this won't mean they grow apart, and maybe even trusting that it's what Dennis actually needs. And it's what Mac would need as well, as proof that Dennis is serious. Because if he doesn't change his mind, then he is. And you can finally see how the whole season has been constructed as a way to move away from the ND conflict in order to fix their dynamic and broken trust in order to make macdennis work.

This calls back to my meta reading for the first half of the season. Again. This is old stuff. But still accurate.

Some snippets.

I now have a more detailed speculation on how Jumper will go which is no longer the one I had in that meta post, but I will spare you the useless talk and get back to my point. Maybe save that for another post. All I need to say here is that Dennis will be adamant that the answer is SHOULD WE: NO, Mac will want to prove him wrong but Dennis will be proven right, subsequently starting the path for Mac's change of outlook. And what will make him say "no"(t yet) even once Dennis believes they should. Boom, karma.

ANYWAY.

Dennis knows he can depend on Mac or at least he's learning so, Mac isn't sure if he can do the same.

As the two bicker over who had trust in who, and who broke the other's trust, it'll come to the surface, through text, that the roles have shifted. Dennis was trusting Mac all along, Mac wasn't.

Which is why Mac deciding for himself, deciding something that goes against Dennis, saying "no", is the biggest leap of faith Mac can take, the thing that would show us that yes, finally, Mac believes Dennis will still choose him.

TGGR's final part of macden's plot itself shows us Mac accepting Dennis' cynical point of view and losing faith. "I guess we're not gonna get that romantic comedy ending after all". But that is not the note the episode ends with.

Right as Mac accepts that it's not happening, we see Charlie and Frank's ending part of their plot. They're reaching back, they have a new realization. Nikki says that they feel the same way, but they still say no for the time being.

How does this all link to Global Warming, finally?

The Global Warming meta

The jump, the realization, the acceptance, in all the meta I have analyzed in the episodes, it all comes AFTER the explosion, the rejection. First things explode and Mac "leaves", THEN Dennis is overwhelmed and changes his mind, reevaluates. Think of the Nikki&Alexi and Charlie&Frank plot as a frame of reference for this. Think of Chokes also, first Mac says "No", then Dennis is satisfied.

NOW, Global Warming macdennis meta, at its most basic, goes as follows:

Dennis thought what he liked was the sexy girls dancing, then they revolted against him and literally overpowered him, and in the aftermath he has a new outlook on the japanese guys that he once disliked. At the same time as this happens, Mac isn't there to help him.

At the same time, we always see Dennis trying to rationalize his way out of conflicts, and it never working, not with Mac, not with the people in the bar.

Basically, we reach a breaking point in the conflict, and Dennis is overwhelmed by it, Mac doesn't help him in GW, he "leaves", I imagine this symbolizing that Mac finally agreeing with Dennis in the actual final conflict would feel to Den like Mac is "giving up on them". Dennis took Mac choosing him for granted, and he now learns how much trust he had in Mac despite saying otherwise (Chokes) and how much it meant to him. Dennis comes out of it changed.

They both do.

This, as I posted about previously, is all part of "God's plan". Dennis gave Mac back his "free will" in Chokes so that Mac's harsh final decisions could ultimately aid their relationship and trust.

We need Mac to turn Dennis down for the time being AND for Dennis to not change his mind during the wait, for the trust to be restored for both of them. To remedy North Dakota once and for all, and move into the macdennis territory. In a year, aka next season.

So finally, we can see how TGGR, Chokes, Texts and now GW all work together as milestones that set us in that direction.