#Csm meta

[ddenji]

denjis character arc rn is sooo good and fujimoto is so good at turning things like character goals on their head. denji’s gotten (almost) everything he ever wanted and it sucks. he’s gone from dreaming of a normal life in part 1 to feeling so empty when a normal life is all he has in part 2. it seems like theres an element of him feeling like he’s betraying himself and his goals and everything he enjoys in his normal life if he admits he wants more, but the normal life in his mind was the idealized daydream of a neglected child and the real thing is not fulfilling for him. he never was normal & normal doesn’t cut it for him, and im looking forward to seeing how he comes to terms with all of this.

[ghostofacrow]

It's genuinely pretty heart warming to me how little hate for Asa I've seen anywhere, she has all the hallmarks of a female character who would be absolutely despised by the fandom - not cute or attractive, honestly pretty unlikable as a person, very judgemental, and she's replacing a male protagonist (who is a lot more outwardly sympathetic because he is a sad puppy and terrible things that aren't his fault keep happening to him) - but instead everyone is really exited about the autistic failwoman protagonist and I think that's neat. Even the people I've seen who dislike Asaden still like Asa instead of hating her for getting in the way of the yaoi Obviously the tumblr girlies were going to latch onto her but I haven't really seen large numbers of people hate her on other social media either, and that might be me curating my feed well enough that I don't see it or all the people who dislike her have fucked off at this point but it's still pretty rare to see a female character who sucks this much as a person be this popular.

[m-aximumjoy]

Some interesting similarities between the forms of Falling Devil and Darkness Devil.

There’s the use of multiple bodies to create a singular form, the angular shapes, the mantis-leg-like appendages, the sheer height.

These two also share very strong hand motifs, which makes sense for both of them: when it’s dark, you have to feel your way around, usually with your hands; when you’re falling, you try to grab onto something with your hands.

I’m curious to see if the other Primals look anything like these two.

[iridescentscarecrow]

this panel is absurd but it's also interesting how these aren't generic funds. specific reference to education (affirmed by how denji chooses to raise nayuta) / literally burning away her own outside-war possibility with war mimicking imagery.

like this paired w. them dressing in school uniforms while infiltrating this military facility. the guys on the monitor going "high school girls? let's go ahead & shoot them." balancing the fact that they ~are~ school girls to create this absurd effect. these kids are being put to war

[mightyhydrator]

No but you guys, the significance of the abrasive and crass song is very much just what the song is: a violent outcry at the pervasive sexualization of youth and theft of agency from children.

It decries the commodification of sex in our society: forced to work, put out of a job - sex is sold as a reprieve, as a business onto itself.

As Denji is attacked by older generations, much like the song, he lashes out. His agency, happiness, desire and sexuality are taken from him; he is used and punished for it in equal measure. It's something he's been struggling with his whole life.

(Denji and Pochita being stabbed by a mob of empty, hungry zombies who turned to gain power, taking their dreams from them, and Makima's manipulation of Denji's sexuality for her own purposes)

There is also something to say about this new girl being a mix of all the girls he's been in sexual or romantic contact with, mostly through trying to get him to do something in exchange for sexual favors, but also romantically, her strong physical resemblance to Asa and Reze

Is this what being normal is like? Having not a single moment to yourself, work killing you, the older generations constantly keeping you down, your sexuality never being free, even as you push against the cage? Well, maybe, but Denji is at least having fun with her despite it all.

[os-eclipses-tamen-son-yuri]

One of my favorite things about this arc from Part 2 is how Denji has a perpetual face of someone who's stumbled into the wrong room by accident and is completely out of the loop.

Which is precisely the point.

Denji is part of a narrative where everyone else is treating him as the idea of the (diegetic) character of "Denji/CSM". A narrative where he is supposed to play the character of "Denji/CSM".

This is no longer about the protagonist's story, but the story of the idea of him.

Denji is now a stranger in his own narrative.

[tolkienbrained]

when i first heard about yoshiden i was like ok cool ship but it doesn't make much sense but THEN i started thinking about it and found and absolute goldmine.

first off, we all know or at least can tell that one of the main overarching themes in chainsaw man is the subversion of common shonen tropes (which fujimoto does wonderfully, mind you) such as "the perverted main character". denji is a subversion of this trope for many reasons which should be discussed in a different post but how wonderful would it be for the sex-crazed women-obsessed character to realize that, oh, maybe women aren't the only option and end up with a guy? i say bisexual denji rights. although to be fair it's true that so far there hasn't been any indication for this in the manga, i don't think denji is at the point where he has realized exactly WHY he's so obsessed with women (cough mommy issues and touch-deprivation).

linking that last point a bit with the Yoshiden Thesis™ we have the fact that a lot of his affection for makima in the first part was most likely linked to this deprivation of love as he grew up and possibly to his lack of a mother figure while he was growing up. and of course makima herself instigated this affection and knowingly manipulated denji. most women denji has known until now have used him, and hurt him in different ways (or just have been older women that shouldn't be messing with a sixteen-year-old anyway). in fact, the ONLY genuinely positive relationship with a woman denji has in part 1 is with power, and it's completely platonic. and it's not only women who have hurt denji, most people in part 1 (with some notable exceptions (aki and power my beloveds)) were not interested in denji, didn't want denji, just cared about chainsaw man and the chainsaw devil. yoshida is someone tasked with protecting DENJI and making sure DENJI gets to live a peaceful, happy life. he has shown a willingness to put up with denji's ridiculousness and has even seemed amused by it. it's too early in part 2 to honestly tell, but we could even say he cares about denji (or possibly will soon since fujimoto needs more characters to break denji's heart even more, fucker).

once again coming back to the "women-obsessed, sex-crazed" part, denji being deprived of affection made him grow up thinking that was the only way to show affection and love, possibly because of how media and society, in general, are very sexualised. a lot of his arc in part 1 was him realizing this isn't true, as shown in his relationship with power and aki. it would be a nice finishing touch to that arc for him to realize that not only are platonic affective relationships possible and just as important/fulfilling as romantic ones, but how romantic relationships also aren't just limited to women and sex by falling in love with yoshida.

of course all of this is talking from a fandom/fanfic standpoint. these are just the reasons why i personally love the ship and consume content on it, and i'm in no way saying "this is definitely going to be canon!!" lol. i went a bit off the rails here but i'm just obsessed with yoshiden rn.

TL;DR yoshiden FUCKS and would go greatly along denji's arc and the themes in chainsaw man.

EDIT: oh my god i just reread this and i mean fucks as in it's very cool not as in they're fucking each other i'm crying LMAO

EDIT2: seeing the recent chapters all of this is most likely going down the drain but i'm still shipping yoshiden idc

[my-fancy-hat]

Introducing the Fall Devil as one of the Primal Fears tied this arc and maybe whole part 2 principal themes in one entire concept: the trip and fall into solitude and depresion in the starving desire for food, an allegory for our emotional needs, for connection, home. This chapter unpacked a lot of things and clear the landscape of Asa's modus operandis and psyche a bit more, as well as her dynamic with the rest of the cast incluiding her current motifs: cats and bucky, thematically speaking. Fall Devil supposedly is the first cheff in "cooking" nostradamus' prophecies, a direct request from the residents of hell, to feed hell's devils humans as food. She introduces just a taste, and appetizer like she calls it, of what is coming, and oh god it started really hard for Asa.

In the past I called Yoru unassertive for have chosen such an impractical person for her ends, after all Asa is a very lonely and awkward person who sucks to establish bonds, but now I kind of regret that statement, because in the recent flashback I did understand why Asa is the way she is and why the story chose her as War Devil's host: because she's self-loaded on guilt. Guilt is the special ingredient to make the perfect weapon, something that War Devil takes with pride. That's how Asa mutilates herself, prefers to sacrifice her own belongings and hurt herself instead of other people; she IS the perfect weapon for Yoru to use. Mitaka prefers cats rather than people, she doesn't know what's right or wrong in how she was willing to kill Denji even tho she knew he didn't deserve it, because when she trusted the wrong person to take care of her cat believing she did the right thing (the cat would feel better with other cats) it didn't end well, and in the aftermath, this person blamed Asa for having more than her and the other orphans that lost everything, as if this was rightful justice. Sounds familiar? yeah, Denji is his last breath in ch1 though the universe was punishing him for have wanted more, for having dreams of a better life. Here, Asa is punished for have loved more, in fact, the last memento of her death mother, a death that could have been easily prevented. Asa invalidates her feelings because acting on them have only made her fall, trip on the most crucial moments, to fail. She fell on top of Bucky, the devil she had to kill and eat, right after she had the epiphany she wanted to be recognized by her classmates, she fell while carrying Yuko from a certain death by the bat devil right after she decided to live by what she feels right, she fell and broke her cellphone right after she wanted to feel useful, she fell for Denji when he gave her attention and a couple of words of praise only to get stoop up in their 2nd date, she fell for Yoshida that easy because she's starving for companionship, and so on. She ends up right where she started, no changes. It's God punishment, she thinks. "She better off dead", no way of living is worthy for her, she's too little for such great things such as friendship, a boyfriend or family, hell, not even to have a pet.

Ironically, I believe the horsemen sisters and Denji will serve in Asa's proclamation of her own right to live (someone already tried but the narrative didn't want that *cofcof* Yuko). Kiga/Famine comfronts Asa with her needs not only for food, but for human connection, that's why her plan backfired because she and Denji bonded in the aquarium and worked together to escape and save everyone; Asa needs to recognize what she want. Yoru is already a less-friendly-Pochita for Asa, not only for have given her a 2nd chance to live (in a very controlled way) but in the sense to help her to take pride of her own life and feel unremorsed to fulfill her needs/dreams; it's ok to fail and trip. And lastly, Denji will help her to slowly open her heart and guide her way throught because, just like him, she's buried in regrets, past trauma and hunger too.

Denji *wasn't allowed to eat* cake, but went for it anyways and eat it with his bare hands, Asa *didn't bring herself to eat* fish, but at the end she took it in gag and tears.

To conclude this mess I just wrote and my personal thoughts, I love this new approach Fjmt is cooking aha it just hits right in my alley. Fall devil in her attacks kind of reminds me of Arael from Evangelion, the angel that invades Asuka's mind in showing her his deepest fears to defeat her. YES give me introspection and traumatic flashbacks. As Denji approach the area he will maybe have to face part 1's events in this mental landscape, to revive Aki and Power's deaths again, and if they both fall to hell, there's a chance he will encounter the gun devil and blood devil and worse the situation for him?! fuck. Here we go with the fucking doors again. I have no idea how they will defeat a primal fear devil tho, only Nayuta has the power to send her right back to hell if I have to bet. Anyways this looks promising af, I'm impatiently waiting for fujimoto to open the depression store next week

[suzu-kun22]

This made my stomach physically turn.

(I know I’m not the only one that thinks something is Off with Pochita but YALL something is fucking OFF with Pochita).

Also the fucking, horrific shit. Just, Denji has been repeatedly and unendingly violated over and over and fucking over again by people who wanted to use him. People who saw him as a means to an end. People who wanted to steal what little he had. Himeno and Reze and Makima and Yoshida and Fumiko. Denji transformed to save one of the few people who has never violated him. (Nayuta.)

And it gets him here. Violated in what might be the most brutal way so far.

I feel sick.

[sioboi]

barem wants denji to be chainsaw man just like how makima did. but barem doesn’t understand makima. not like how pochita did. pochita knows that deep down, what the control devil wanted was an equal. someone to love her

it is so so wicked how he insults and belittles nayuta, makima’s reincarnation. nayuta is the control devil raised in an environment where she could be loved, where she could go to school, eat all the food she wants. however that isn’t the version of the control devil that barem loves, and so he hates her for it.

the parallels between makima and baremmm ugh. the way they both hurt and use what they view as a lesser, incomplete version of the thing that they worship. it’s so evil and so fascinating

[ddenji]

okay fujimoto’s ideas about love are a huge part of this manga and im loving the development of asa being someone who loves both denji and chainsaw man which was kind of the whole point of part 1

everyone else either wants chainsaw man as a weapon without considering denji or denji without acknowledging that he’s chainsaw man too. asa has fallen for them both in different ways and denji being loved as both himself and chainsaw man was what he wanted by the end of the first part

now that she’s interacted with them both at length i cannot wait for her to learn that theyre actually the same person. i just know the reveal is going to be chaotic

[m-aximumjoy]

I really love the perspective shown during this conversation. Even though Asa’s gravity is reversed, she’s shown as being right side up, while Yoru is upside down. It reinforces Asa’s internal narrative that she’s in the right here, as well as demonstrating Falling Devil’s power—she can change someone’s entire perspective on the world, even through the fourth wall.

[iridescentscarecrow]

there's something so human and compelling to asa's wants. a grappling with her fear of being perceived in her clumsiness but then that raw sense of being acknowledged, her little grin. she's so real it hurts.

[chilled-ice-cubes]

thinking about kobeni

like yeah she’s the comic relief butt monkey but there’s something about her being the only one of the devil hunter squad (arai, himeno, aki, kobeni) to escape death and resign from the bureau that feels important. she’s younger than the other three and unlike them she’s working at the bureau not out of her own will but because it’s better than being prostituted out by her family. she’s exploited by her family to send money back home so her brother can go through college and basically treated as an indentured labourer. she chauffeurs them around in the car she bought!

kobeni is probably the closest parallel denji has in the manga. she’s a “dog” too and her master is her family. like denji she accepts being exploited in exchange for money and fulfillment of the most basic needs.

kobeni is a denji who’s resigned to the system. she joins the bureau because her family makes her, she joins family burger (the abusive business she works at as a temp employee is literally called family burger! fujimoto stop this) because her family is still forcing her to work and send them money and when denji tells her of his realisation that he’ll always be someone’s dog, she counters by telling him that this is what normal life is like.

and like. for a moment denji believes her. everything he’s gone through should make him wholeheartedly believe kobeni’s world view. but then after he sees the broadcast he realises that in spite of all the pain and suffering, being chainsaw man has still made his life better. a “normal life” isn’t one free from bad things, it’s one where you can aspire beyond the bare minimum, where you’re not treated like an animal and have to focus solely on surviving.

[mightyhydrator]

Chainsaw Man and the Four Horsemen as a parallel to societal development

Since Famine first showed up, there was a lot of surprise at the idea that the four Horsemen might consider each other to be siblings. Fami is our second look at the relationship between the four of them, the first being Makima’s desire to erase the others, which, put together with Yoru’s panic at Fami’s introduction, paints a picture of a contentious, if not antagonistic relationship between them.

What surprised me, however, is the relative lack of discussion on what the “big sister” part says about the four devils. When we consider that the Horsemen represent fears humanity had to bear since ancient times, age becomes relevant, and by thinking about this relationship we can glean what this quarter represents about society’s historical development, and in what way it’s an inversion of the Book of Revelation’s original Horsemen.

From Makima, we already knew the Horsemen are a disarrayed unit, so Famine considering War to be her little sister has one chief implication to me: Famine, the devil, is older than War, and so is her name. Fami, or something like her, came into the world before the devil who became Yoru did. But what does this mean, that humanity feared Famine before War? Let’s look at each of the four names and see how and when they would have come about.

When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a pale horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him.

Death is the foundational fear, and thus the oldest. Every living being is afraid of it, every other primal fear is an extension of it. Darkness, the first primal devil shown to us, is feared for the danger and isolation night brings. One are afraid of it because something unseen will end their life, or because they will be lost and will die alone.

When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; but do not damage the oil and the wine."

Famine, or Hunger, in its more basic form, is likewise an extension of Death. Hunger always meant a slow and painful death for yourself and your family. At humanity's dawn, it was inescapable — a fact of life, as there was simply not enough food to sustain us without starvation, not even taking droughts and natural disasters into account. Eventually sedentary lifestyles emerged, which prompted increases in population densities, a trend reliant on a more efficient way to acquire food. This strengthened or even gave birth to Famine, as sedentary societies turned hunger into a massive catastrophe. Now, not only will your family starve, but so will other families, and the people reliant on you growing the food.

When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come." And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from Earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.

War, unlike Hunger, is tied near-entirely to larger societies. Higher population densities require vastly more resources, including food. It will become that armed conflict will be used to acquire these now-coveted resources, like food during times of hunger. Plowshares, created to stave off Hunger, to stave off Famine, are now used to kill other people to execute War. There is fear of being killed by your fellow; fear of your loved one dying far from home, killed for food, land, or dominion.

Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come." I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Death and Famine are extremely base fears; they are very materialistic. War, being a fear of what other humans might do to you, is more abstract and reliant on historic developments, but it is still a very grounded fear, based on the easy to grasp principle of not wanting to die. Conquest, on the other hand, is a very abstract and extremely human (in the sense of belonging to humanity) concept. The word itself brings to mind War, yet implies so much more. It is a fear of being unable to control your own life — a fear of submitting to an authority, like a king; a fear of institutions bigger than you can imagine leaving you with no choices; a fear of people you had never known taking advantage of you, forcing themselves onto you. It is, in some ways, the most human of all fears. It is something only humans can exercise on each other, somethings one can expect only from other humans, and something reliant on history moving away from things so basic as Famine, and through tools like War, towards a future of society, of governance, of Control.

It only makes sense that such an abstract fear, so foundational to civilization in its pervasiveness, would be youngest among the three other pillars of societal fears: Death births Famine births War births Conquest. And an aspect to this order, which we can contrast with the source material for the Horsemen, is that this order is an inversion: in the Book of Revelations, the prophesied Apocalypse follows the breaking of 7 seals, each hailing catastrophes to come; the first four releasing Horsemen into the world.

Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.

The order in which they are released (Conquest, War, Famine, Death), though, is opposite to the order of each one’s emergence in the history of humanity.

Fujimoto, having given an age to the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, inverted the process: they symbolize not the end of a civilization, but its genesis. However, the original order is still present. As Chainsaw Man’s engine revs again, Conquest — the youngest sister — answers the call. Then War. Now Famine. Soon, we shall meet Death.

[os-eclipses-tamen-son-yuri]

Well isn't that something...?