#I also want the completion of the transcontinental railroad to be a plot point in this story

[ghostlynimbus]

After some additional research, I moved the timeline of "It's Not The Sky I'm Asking For" about a decade (from 1850s to 1860s) to better fit the time period i actually thought i was referencing

But unfortunately that SIGNIFICANTLY changes the expected travel time from the east coast to the west coast, because of how much railroad expansion was happening at that time

And now idk if i'd rather rethink my expectations about culture/dress, or rework the timeline to fit more period accurate travel times, or just ignore it (bc really is anyone but me going to care that the travel actually should have taken 4-6 weeks rather than the ~5 months I was originally planning around?)

[neechees]

do you have any strong thoughts/feelings about the spirit sequel/spinoff movie and tv show? especially with how you're native and the original had a very strong native storyline

I haven't watched it, don't plan on watching it, but I HAVE seen several reviews from hard-core Spirit (2002) fans, & just based on the info I've seen from them, it ain't good. Some essential info is that the setting is AFTER the original Spirit film, it's set in the early 1900s (which personally I think is inaccurate to the timeline of the first movie & there's no way this could be right, but more on that later), the horse featured is actually Spirit and Rain's SON, and the setting is a town next to a railroad (I initially thought that presumably this is the same railroad Spirit deliberately sabotaged to stop them from invading his home, which means they eventually succeeded, but the show seems to either retcon this or introduce ANOTHER railroad called "JP and sons Railway" and that it was built just pre-early 1900s, but if that's the case then that doubly makes the timeline make no sense. Either there's 2 railroads and the time periods is fucked up, or the show is completely disregarding the films canon and saying there's only one and its the JP & sons one & moves up the timeline for. some reason.).

The timeline is relevant because it plays heavily into both the plot and the themes of the film: the original Spirit film from 2002 takes place sometime between 1863-1865, when the transcontinental railway was being built. The realization that the railway is going to endanger Spirit's herd, as well as the fact that this is partially why they were attacking Little Creek's village & trying to kill everyone is what motivates Spirit to try stop it, he literally sabotages one of the major efforts of settler colonialism alongside a Native man. His son in the spinoff sequels being very happy friends with a girl from a town directly next to the now built railway ENTIRELY misses the point and themes of what the original film was trying to say and completely disregards the history of this railway and how many Native Americans were killed and displaced for it. But, transcontinental railway or some other fictional railway or not, the first film both literally and symbolically showed why this train was bad and the effects it had on the Native wildlife and Native people. But again, the show seems to have changed this to dodge the original film's plot points that were clearly critiques of Western Expansion and settler colonialism in order to make the setting of the spinoffs more palatable.

One rater from Common Sense Media (which reviews & gives appropriate ratings & info for children's media) themselves even stated that both the show & the new movie "does not substantially confront the actual history of westward settlement", presumably because it's aimed at a young audience, but this is stupid either way because that was literally the ENTIRE point of the first movie (which didn't hold back in its depiction of racism & colonization) & was also aimed at a younger audience. I watched that movie when I was 6. I was able handle it and understand what was going on

& whats interesting is that, while I could be wrong, but I actually don't think the White characters EVER call Little Creek a slur (like "Indian/Injun", "redskin", "savage" etc) once in the original Spirit film, & he straight up refers to him by his tribe (Lakota)? Because they didn't need to. They showed how these characters were racist & settler colonialism is bad by every other action they do. Compare this with Pocahontas where you hear pretty much ALL those slurs, her people's tribe/s of the Powhatan confederacy are never mentioned (which would be the Mattaponi, Patawomeck, & Pamunkey), & ends with a lukewarm "racism is bad & both sides are wrong, don't be mean to white ppl even if they want to kill you <3"

There is also a Native character named Mixtli & is of the Atakapa/Ishak people, but as far as I know "Mixtli" is a Nahua word, and the Ishak people were a southwest woodland tribe and a language isolate. His design also moreso looks like a Little Creek ripoff rather than anything similar to other depictions of traditional Ishak clothing/people. AFAIK he's also mostly a side character as well. And again, this goes back to this new show seemingly ignoring the history of racism in the early 1900s: Mixtli is 16 and "considered an adult by his tribe", which seems to be the show's way of dodging the fact that in this era he'd otherwise be forced into an Indian boarding school or have just left one recently (since many left in between the ages 16-18, but some managed to leave earlier if you got married). Most tribes even by the early 1900s were starting to live in more European styled houses like cabins, and wearing European/White American clothing (or incorporating them a lot more) and were forced to keep most of their traditions in hiding because they were made illegal, but this doesn't seem to be illustrated for the show. Call me hardass and a stickler for historical accuracy, but I feel like if you're going to adapt a film set in any point in history, you should do your best to make it historically authentic in tone even if not everything is 100% accurate, and do so with the appropriate target audience in mind. Spirit 2002 did that, the show has not.

Below is just some proof & history nerd stuff & expanding on how Spirit 2002 takes place during the mid 1860's & how we know this, as well as why this decision is stupid as hell. But otherwise I feel like I'm gunna have to stop for now because this is getting long and I'm not quite articulating as well as I'd like.

Remember when I said that The Colonel's look was probably based on General Custer? That's the most obvious in his uniform and attire, compare his character design with that of this photo of Custer in 1865. While the designs in 2d animated works tend to be simplified, this still possibly gives us an idea of what time period the first movie is supposed to be in. I think I saw someone also say that in an early draft of the film, the Colonel was named "Colonel Custer", meaning he might have straight up meant to be Custer originally

Spirit being forced to work on a railroad also lets us know that this is specifically the transcontinental railroad, which was started in 1863 and finished in 1865, so the original movie takes place in between this time, and again going off of the above mentioned point, Custer was also still alive by this time.

So if we go with the idea that Spirit 2002 does in fact take place in 1863-1865, and that the spinoffs take place in the early 1900s, this could not work because Spirit and his son would not be alive. Horses have a lifespan of about 30ish years. MAYBE Spirit Jr would be alive, but he'd be an old ass horse, but he doesn't look very old in the show at all. I think partially the reason for the time jump would be because maybe they thought the fashion for the show characters could be more easily modernized (which, they are VERY modernized with the female characters wearing tshirts and skinny jeans, when they should be dressing like the characters in Anne with an E), or maybe they thought that the racism by this point "wasn't as bad". You COULD make the case to say that the series retconned most everything in the original film and is saying the first railroad was in fact, the same one as in the show, and the movie's timeline was moved upward to be at a later date, but this also retcons the original setting completely and makes no sense. I'm not sure why they decided to do a spinoff of fucking SPIRIT of all things, but whatever.

See Mixtli in the center, and two drawings of Ishak people on either side. Like I guess I can see why they'd not want to animate their traditional clothing, but they really couldn't incorporate ANYTHING? Not even the traditional designs or hairstyle or the breechcloth?