#I am forever salty about how they treated him in season 9

[danikoshi-doodles]

My phone died so I'm thinking about certain colorful horses again to distract myself

I hate the colors but whatchu gonna do when you're doodling filled with anxiety 🤩

[thegreymoon]

Salty Ask list: 9. Most disliked arc? Why?, 20. What is the purest ship in the fandom?, and 27. Least shippable character? The saltier the better!!!

Thank you for the ask, anon!! 💜💜

OK, I will answer both 9 and 10 (because the most disliked arc is no. 10 😅) I have already answered some of these earlier, so I will copy/paste those, if that’s OK! 

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

For Merlin:

Agravaine. He’s just the worst. So greasy and sleazy and just, yuck. Yuck, overall. He’s not even one of those characters one can love to hate, like, for example, Uther, who is also simply the worst, but who will preoccupy you in ways you never saw coming! When it comes to Agravaine, everything about him was so thoroughly hateful, frustrating and unenjoyable, the highlight of the entire season was finally watching him go splat against the wall! The second most hated is that girlfriend of Gwaine’s at the very end that was plying him for information. That entire sequence is just so mind-numbingly infuriating, I can’t even think of it without getting angry. It almost ruined Gwaine for me entirely.

For The Untamed:

Oh, finally an easy one!! 😂😂 Wen Chao, Wang Lingjiao and Wen Zhuliu are in a tight race for the first place here and who is winning depends entirely on who I’m looking at in that precise moment! Of course, Wen Ruohan and Wen Xu can get into the hate bucket too, but they were so bland and boring, they cannot really compare. Jin Guangshan is also the worst, I can’t stand him. The only reason I hate the Wens more is that Jin Guangshan is actually a competent villain on a higher scale of villainy than the previous lot. Jin Zixun is also awful, a ridiculously unredeemable character on every front and Su She can also have an honourable mention.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

For Merlin: 

Oooh! There are so many!! But I think the ones that I rant about the most often are those related to Gwen! Everything about Gwencelot makes me rage! I dislike him and how he treated her and just do not see this epic ~love~ there, at least not on his part, yet they kept bringing him back to mess up her life over and over again. 

Mind you, I am not the biggest fan of Arthur in this context either, he was a terrible boyfriend (though a somewhat better husband because Merlin picked up the slack), even though Arwen >>> Gwencelot by miles and miles. I hated how he would break up with her every five minutes over nonsense and then come crawling back. I hated how she always immediately forgave him, all grateful and relieved, and I always felt like she didn’t really have a choice because the power imbalance between them was staggering. Plus, the fact that she was the one who nursed Uther in his last months after everything he had done to her, and that Arthur had let it happen, infuriates me to no end. 

My loathing for that whole cheating arc is infinite. I hate how the writers could not make up their minds about what they wanted to do with her. On the one hand, they were such cowards in their attempts to keep her ideologically pure, they had already sacrificed a lot of her quirkiness and character to suit Arthur’s needs and wants and to make him look good, so they were reluctant to have her actually cheat because it would undermine him. I don’t understand why they even had to have that entire arc if they were so afraid to go there. She was supposed to be under mind-control, and then they pointed out that the spell works by bringing suppressed emotions to the forefront! Why was that necessary? I mean, you can’t have it both ways! Either do it and own it, or just leave it alone! It would have been so easy to have her choose Lancelot and develop a proper romance there, and then to have Lancelot die, and Gwen fall in love with Arthur afterwards, as he supports her while she grieves. But, no, they had to take this cheap shot at her and humiliate her and have her cleaning pigsties just so that Arthur can angst about it for a few episodes. I am forever mad. 

I also dislike the whole evil!Gwen arc (though a part of me did enjoy watching her go apeshit after quietly swallowing so much injustice throughout the entire five seasons of this show). I feel like they were intentionally undermining the character and her entire relationship with Arthur. The whole cheating nonsense so late into season 4 had already done so much damage, then they went and pulled this poorly-thought-out crap in the second half of season 5, when emotions were already running high and nobody was in the mood to be forgiving of someone trying at and almost succeeding in killing Arthur, who was so much more beloved among the viewers than her. Just imagine how much better spent that time would have been if they had... oh, I don’t know, developed Mordred more and given him a proper reason to turn against Arthur! 

Ugh 😒

For The Untamed: 

I dislike the whole Yanli/JZX romance. I don’t know what he’s like in the novel and the other adaptations, but he gets on my very last nerve in the drama and I never actually saw him do anything meaningful to redeem himself for all the crap he pulled and all the humiliation he piled on to her. I also don’t like the whole Yin Iron nonsense. It just doesn’t tie in properly and the plot holes and inconsistencies it leaves behind are gaping and huge (but, happily, nobody is watching this for the Yin Iron plot 😆). There had to have been better things to do there, especially since it is something that does not exist in the source material. The worst parts of the drama for me somehow always tie back to the Yin Iron. 

20. What is the purest ship in the fandom?

For Merlin:

Hmmm… when it comes to the most popular ones, I think none of them, because they all get complicated and dark to some degree. But on a platonic level, when it comes to friendships, I would go with Merwen, Merlance and Merwaine. Merlin and Gwen are delightful together, but I have a hard time shipping them romantically without Arthur, there is just no path forward for me there that does not involve him too, and that tips the dynamic into something much more complicated (but still happy for all three of them because I am so not down for jealousy and competition between Merlin and Gwen, Arthur has two hands and he can damn well use them). 

I also think that Lancelot’s love for Merlin was pure, but I just don’t ship it at all and think that there was never anything there except for friendship (I can see Arlance going sexual, though). The same goes for Gwaine, I think that he loved Merlin unconditionally, and as far as friendship goes, it is pure, but if I ship them sexually, then all purity goes out of the window, not just as far as the sex is concerned (because the sex they would be having would be positively filthy) but also because I just can’t imagine a universe in which Merlin does not love and desire Arthur more. The angst, the pain and the darkness are off the charts.

As for the less popular ones, I think the purest is Percival/Elyan regardless of whether you see it as romantic or platonic. There is just so much mutual love, admiration and respect between them! No angst, no lies, no triangles, no drama, just taking care of and supporting each other and living in domestic bliss.

For The Untamed:

WangXian, no contest. They fell in love as kids and continued to love each other for the rest of their lives, even beyond death. The way they love each other is so absolute and so selfless! They both respect and admire the other, they are so supportive and accepting of each other, quirks, flaws and all, and they kind of set the gold standard as far as relationships go!

27. Least shippable character?

For Merlin: 

Eh... this is a tough one. I actually had to step away from this question and think about it and I didn’t come up with anything because the entire main and recurring cast is very shippable. There are, however, characters that aren’t shipped as much as they could be (Elyan, baby, you deserve better 😢), and then there are also characters that result in unsavory ships that are best left unmentioned (but because these are salty asks, I am going to mention them anyway). 

The first one that came to my mind was Gaius, but he is actually very shippable because there is no rule that says you have to ship him in the canon timeline. He has a serious canon het love interest, and a crack one as well. Also, let’s not forget Uther. I’ve seen the fandom float this one as a crack ship, but it is actually very serious and plausible. There is so much complicated history there, decades of it, and definitely a deep, albeit toxic relationship that can absolutely be (and likely even was) sexual. If I was less busy and more inclined to get anon hate, I would totally be open to writing it myself.

I have seen a lot of people list Uther as an answer here, but Uther is very, very shippable! Anthony Head is handsome and charismatic, and he has so much presence as Uther, he could have chemistry with drywall if the script called for it. Again, there is no rule stating that a ship should be wholesome and happy, so let me go over the most obvious ones. When it comes to m/m ships, I already mentioned Gaius, plus I definitely felt it whenever the neighbouring kings came over to visit Camelot (my personal favourite was Lord Godwyn). Uther also has three canon het ships (why, yes, I am counting the troll), most notably Ygraine and Viivienne, and he is 100% shippable with Nimueh (though I prefer Nimueh with Ygraine). Last but not least, there is Morgana. It is squicky incest, yes, but it is also very obvious, if you have the inclination to go there. My jaw was on the floor on my first watch when he confessed that she was his actual biological daughter, because up until then, I totally thought that things would get sexual between them in canon. 

Agravaine is also an obvious (I would even go as far as to say a semi-canon) ship for Morgana. Do I hate it? Yes. Do I think she slept with him to get him to deliver her Arthur’s head? Again, absolutely, yes. Even Kilgharrah is very shippable and he is a giant firebreathing lizard (obviously, laws of physics require transmorphing him into something smaller and (hopefully) human-shaped for the p0rn). 

For The Untamed: 

Jin Zixun and Jin Zixuan. I am forever mad Jin Zixuan (somehow) ends up having sex in canon anyway. My first thought for this was Wen Chao, but no, he is absolutely shippable. Like I said, the ship does not have to be nice, and Wen Chao is very nasty, but also very sexual (plus, there is always Wen Zhuliu).

The one character that I personally am the least inclined to ship is Wen Ning because he is so childlike and it feels like he never mentally developed into an adult. 

Salty Asks

[naomimakesart]

Tagged by @chaos-of-the-abyss! Thanks for the tag I love answering questions about ASOIAF!!!

1. Who is your favorite character and why?

I think I’ve answered this a lot, but I love Daenerys the most out of ASOIAF characters, but I’ll sum up the reasons here: I can relate to her story while not completely projecting myself onto her, I believe she genuinely has a kind heart, I can criticize that she does not always make good decisions but she learns from them and she is a survivor and I admire that the most.

2. Have you ever felt any sympathy for Cersei at all?

Yes I can sympathize that Cersei has been constantly treated as less by her father for being a girl and I understand her frustration about that. Cersei is a really interesting character to me because she doesn’t do a lot of redeeming things but I don’t hate her? I enjoy reading her chapters, she can do/think things that I find really entertaining. I do think that she gets ahead of herself a lot though.

3. If you could choose, which character would you take as your ruler?

Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, the Unburnt, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, and Mother of Dragons.

4. Your opinion of Rhaegar Targaryen?

So this is a really loaded question. This is a question that I haven’t answered before, but I’m going to keep things simple. I do like Rhaegar’s character and I can do that while also being critical of his actions. Do I approve of everything he did, or the way he went about things? No. Do I wish things had turned out different? No. Because had he not done what he had, we wouldn’t have the story that we do now. Would Daenerys be the first female head of House Targaryen or feel responsible for their restoration if he hadn’t? Would Jon even be here? In the simplest words I can possibly muster his actions progressed the story so much, and gave us some heart-wrenching conflict and as a reader I couldn’t ask for more. 

5. Favorite historical Targaryen?

Favorite historical Targs are Visenya, Alysanne, Daemon and Bloodraven. 

6. What do you think of Young Griff so far?

I like Young Griff, but I kind of believe he’s a Blackfyre. I still like him though. I actually think it would be great if Daenerys married him and Jon, is that an unpopular opinion? I think it would be a great reverse of Aegon/Visenya/Rhaenys. Daenerys can be Aegon, Jon can be Visenya and Young Griff/Aegon can be Rhaenys. Lets just squash the conflict between house Targaryen and House Blackfyre with marriage. lol That’s too simple of a solution but can you imagine Dany with two cute husbands?? She deserves it!! 

7. Your opinion on Shae?

My opinion on show-Shae was that she wasn’t half bad, but book-Shae was..........an acquired taste. I thought it was a little redundant for the show-runners to expand her character when they were just going to give her the same ending as she had in the books? I liked them giving her more dimension but at the same time they kind of baited us with a tragic backstory and then never delivered. 

8. Who is your favorite actor in GOT?

I love Emilia, but the actor I think that was absolutely perfect in every scene and I will never forget is Charles Dance as Tywin. What a perfect perfect choice, he deserved a damn Golden Globe, and I have actually missed him so much since season 4. I think Tywin would be more of a force to be reckoned with for Dany if he was still around though, so I’m not too heartbroken over his absence. 

9. Who do you think is Cersei’s “younger, more beautiful queen”? Daenerys, Margaery, Sansa, or someone else?

I honestly think it’s Dany, but it could be Sansa too? I think Cersei really believed it was Margaery, and I think she probably believed it to be Sansa for a while as well, but never expected it would be Daenerys bc Dany wasn’t even on her radar and that’s why I believe it’s Daenerys. 

10. Who is your favorite member in Daenerys’ court (aside from Dany herself)?

Missandei is cute, in the show and the books, I love how smart she is and her innocent humor is very adorable too. After Missandei I really loved Barristan Selmy and will forever be salty that D&D killed him before he was supposed to die. I hope we have a lot more interaction with Barristan in the remaining books and that GRRM decides to keep him alive for a while. 

11. Who is your favorite couple?

In just ASOIAF or the entirety of GRRM’s universe? I have always liked the aesthetic of ice and fire ships like Rhaegar/Lyanna & Jon/Daenerys but I am also a huge fan of Targaryen ships like Bloodraven/Shiera, Aegon/Visenya/Rhaenys, Jaehaerys/Alysanne, Baela/Alyn, and Daemon with every woman lover he ever had I guess haha. I’m also a huge fan of Cregan Stark and Black Aly Blackwood. My favorite I guess would be RxL because I’ve drawn them so much and consistently since 2013. 

Now, I’ll ask my own questions:

1. What are your top 3 favorite houses in Westeros?

2. If you could live during one era in GRRM’s universe what era would it be? (Age of Heroes, Valyrian Empire, Conquest of Westeros, Dance of Dragons etc.)

3. What is your favorite episode/scene from the Game of Thrones TV Series? 

4. What ruler do you think brought about the most change in Westeros, be it good or bad? 

5. If you could ask GRRM one question what would it be?

6. If GRRM could write a short novel/series about one other family or historical time (besides the Targaryens) in his universe what would you want it to be about? (My choice would be Nymeria’s Journey!)

7. What was your first introduction to ASOIAF/Game of Thrones? Did someone tell you about it, did you see it online or did you come across it at a store/shop?

8. What’s one thing that bothers you about GRRM’s series?

9. What’s one thing you unabashedly love about GRRM’s series?

10. What are your feelings about the prequel series in development at HBO right now for the Long Night? 

I’m tagging: @chillyravenart, @thousandeyesand-one, @joannalannister, @madaboutasoiaf, @ofwickedlight, @xxthewolvenstormxx, @thenightsmellsofjasmine, @vxsxnyx, @lastxdragon and anyone else who’s interested! Also feel free to ignore, I tagged people who interact with me a lot and I’d like to see your thoughts! 

[callmetippytumbles]

5, 6, 16, 22 and 23 for the Salty Ask!

Thank you for the opportunity to be out there @lizzybeth1986

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?*Yep.  Actually not necessarily a pairing but a love interest.  Like I wasn’t into the Endless Summer books but I did not like Jake because of Jake stans.  Like fanfiction had to save Jake for me.  And even then I liked the MC of that fanfic.  Same for Beckett now.  A lot of my intense ire for his character is based on the fandom.  I don’t like him, but the fandom made me hate him.  

6. Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?*Good or at least interesting fanfiction can get you to embrace some shit that normally you would not.  @boneandfur made me ship Namien almost to the point that I wish I didn’t save Steve.  I mean Steve would love Nadia forever (literally, he is a robot) but Damien would do too and they would be so cute together.  I just want it.  @ritachacha did a fanfic for Drake and Hana that I could get behind and typically I do not like Hana with a man.  #GiveHanaAStud #StrapUp4HanaLeePlease

16. If you could change anything in the show, what would you change?Well, for the three fandoms I follow and willing to talk about, I have some recommendations.  I am keeping it to one thing for each.  I am treating this like if I had a genie bottle this is what I would rub that shit and wish for.

Choices: Stop fake ass diversity reaches.  

Lovestruck: Make Villainous Nights have like 9 seasons like Astoria and Gangsters in Love.  

Criminal Minds: GIVE TARA, MATT AND LUKE MORE SCREEN TIME.

22. Popular character you hate?Jake Mackenzie.  Blame the fandom for that one.  Like I will not go the Facebook fandom because of Jake Stans.  I do not have the energy or the reserve of praying grandmamas required to withstand that level of delusion.  

Me: Jake is short and slight.Jake Stans: Nuh-uh. He is 6’0” and super muscular under that green jacket.Me: He also cannot do 50% of his job.Jake Stans: Nobody is perfect.Me: He gives unwanted nicknames.Jake Stans: They’re cute.Me: He is bisexual.Jake Stans: YOU LIE!

Just wish that they would see that their fave is a short, slender bi guy that struggles to land a plane and his job title is “pilot.”

Dishonorable Mention: Penelope. She sets up the MC for assault and has that shit photographed. Sends it to the press. Lies to your face about it.  Fuck her.

23. Unpopular character you love?Kiara.  I do not see as much visceral hate for her as of late (well maybe Jake stans that are also Drake stans), but in fanfiction, she gets done so dirty.  Today I read one that had Liam not want to hire Kiara for a foreign ministry position because she hangs out with Madeleine… even though she has the qualifications and background to do that job.  Okay.  I can’t even be all that mad about it because Liam does that kind of shit in canon.  Not for that petty of a reason, but he goes to her house to get her family’s support and spends more time with her brother who has never been to court up until now and pretty much ignores Kiara even though the reason her family is reluctant to support you is because KiKi got stabbed at your last party.

Kiara: I am not sure I should support you.  I don’t feel safe because I got stabbed at your last event.Liam: Sorry, bro.  Have an apple and buck up for Cordonia.  Your country needs you.*turns to Zeke*Liam: So how do you feel?Zeke: I just got here.Liam: Yeah, but your opinion is important to me.

Thanks again for the ask @lizzybeth1986 

Salty Ask

[semirahrose]

Hey, first of all thank you for answering my earlier ask. Second, am I the only one that hopes when Gabriel (and I'm pretty sure he's gonna come back) that Sam does NOT instantly forgive him? (this might be a bit long). I've been reading a lot of season 13 fanfiction (mainly about Gabriel's return and running away) and in almost all of them, as soon as Gabriel returns, Sam instantly forgives him. I know he's recovering from Hell trauma and torture, but as the same time I can't help but think 1/?

Rest of asks and response under cut for length and Sadness™

Coward. I maybe a bit cynical at the moment but Sam went to Hell and when he came back and was able to actually remember hell, he still fought to save the world. When Dean got back from Hell he still fought to save the world. When Castiel went crazy from being God and came back, he stayed and tried to fix the mess he made and then later to try and save the world. And there’s a whole lot of other characters (Charlie, Mary, Jack) all fighting to save the world. And yes I do know it’s apart of 2/?

Gabriel’s character flaw is to run away (even though that character ark was done better is season 5) I still don’t want Sam or Dean or Cas to instantly forgive him when he returns. I want Gabriel to repent a bit. It’s like watching a tv show or reading a book where the main lead is hurt deeply (possibly abandonment) by someone (not necessarily a love interest though they tend to be that) and as soon as that person returns the lead instantly forgives them because they love them sooooo much. 3/?

Now sometimes the instant forgiveness is done right. If it’s the character flaw of the lead (they have attachment issues hence the instant forgiveness) or that somebody is seen actually repenting (I like it when the somebody is on death’s door when they ask for forgiveness and the lead forgives them because they realize being angry doesn’t solve anything.) Then there is the instant forgiveness done wrong. It’s when it makes the main lead seem like a door mat. I’m okay with characters giving 4/?

other characters a second chance but I hate it when it comes with the instant trust. That’s what I’m afraid season 13 will do. Mainly what the writers will make Sam do. I’m okay with Sam forgiving people but he also needs to stand up for himself. I kind of hope for something like the later half of season 9 with the fight between Sam and Dean, where Sam didn’t forgive Dean for what he did. I don’t think it will be as long because Sam is not as close to Gabriel as he is with Dean. Hopefully 5/?

they will frame it so that it’s clear that it’s okay that Sam didn’t forgive Gabriel for leaving them to clean up GABRIEL"S (and Cas’s, but he’s trying to fix it so he’s good) family drama. I hope the writer’s won’t push that it’s unfair of Sam to be angry at Gabriel (like they did with Season 9 and Dean). I hope they don’t only let Dean or Dean and Cas be the only ones to not forgive Gabriel and to have Sam say ‘no that was unacceptable, I’m not forgiving you. You need to earn my .7/?

forgiveness’. (not as bluntly but you get the idea). I just want Sam to stand up for himself. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I want Sam to forgive characters (eventually and after much grovelling) but I don’t want him to become a push over where any transgression against him is okay. Where he stops respecting himself and stops standing up for himself. No one’s going to stand up with you, if you don’t stand up for yourself. Again, I hope this is coming out the way I mean. It’s okay 8/?

if Sam forgives a character, but I want to see some justification in that forgiveness. Give me a reason beyond because it’s Sam’s character. I want the writers to show us that Gabriel has earned Sam’s forgiveness. What do you think? Do you think Sam should forgive Gabriel? Do you think he shouldn’t? How do you think Gabriel’s character ark should be handled? How do you want this sub plot to turn out? Sorry if this was long and ranty but I’m worried about the rest of season 13.

First of all, sorry for how slow/terrible I am at replying! Thanks for your patience!!

This is going to sound horrible of me, I think, but when it comes to characters I want to see show some genuine remorse or just… you know, get brutally killed and wiped from canon forever, Gabriel is quite far down on the list. I think it’s because of where he started. He improved as a character from where he started, and although it didn’t make him a blameless saint, he did stick his heck out for the sake of the world, and until the writers retconned his death, he did actually die for that act of heroism.

A lot of Sam fans are quite rightly concerned about having the writers bring back yet another character who has done horrible things to Sam.

But I’m 1000% with you on the idea of Sam’s forgiveness. I honestly don’t expect him to stand up for himself—and again, if he’s going to make a stand about the way people treat him, there are at least two characters I’d like him to stand up to first—but I am nearly certain that the writers won’t give what Sam experienced at Gabriel’s hands a second thought.

I hope Sam saves all his rage for Lucifer. I hope someone mentions what MoC!Dean said at Charlie’s pyre. I hope the show stops making Sam a sexy lamp who is nothing more than an afterthought in his own story.

I’ve stopped having any faith that we’ll get any of those things, but I love your thoughts and agree with you and hope all your wishes come true. I wish I could alleviate your worries about the season, but I share them. I want to talk about whether Sam should forgive Gabriel and how Gabriel’s character arc should progress, but I don’t know what I could say. Honestly, I think any of the options you mentioned could be written well, but I don’t think they will be.

My saltiness is mostly gone and at this point I just feel sad about this show.

It just keeps crushing Sam’s character to paler and paler shreds of himself and building these grand plots on top of the ruins, and it’s hard to even imagine a way they could salvage his story now. 

It’s entirely possible, but it would take more care and certainly more skill than the current showrunners possess.