#Nate Friesen

[holyjost]

TEAM LISTS OF UNPROTECTED PLAYERS [source] ANAHEIM DUCKS

FORWARDS: spencer abbott, jared boll, sam carrick, patrick eaves, emerson etem, ryan garbutt, max gortz, nicolas kerdiles, andre petersson, logan shaw, nick sorenson, nate thompson, corey tropp, chris wagner

DEFENSEMEN: nate guenin, korbinian holzer, josh manson, jaycob megna, jeff schultz, clayton stoner, sami vatanen

GOALTENDERS: jonathan bernier, jhonas enroth, ryan faragher, matt hackett, dustin tokarski

ARIZONA COYOTES

FORWARDS: alexander burmistrov, shane doan, tyler gaudet, peter holland, josh jooris, jamie mcginn, jeremy morin, mitchell moroz, chris mueller, teemu pulkkinen, brad richardson, garret ross, branden troock, radim vrbata, joe whitney

DEFENSEMEN: kevin connauton, jamie mcbain, zbynek michalek, jarred tinordi

GOALTENDERS: louis domingue

BOSTON BRUINS

FORWARDS: matt beleskey, brian ferlin, jimmy hayes, alex khokhlachev, dominic moore, tyler randell, zac rinaldo, tim schaller, drew stafford

DEFENSEMEN: linus arnesson, chris casto, tommy cross, alex grant, john-michael liles, adam mcquaid, colin miller, joe morrow

GOALTENDERS: anton khudobinn, malcolm subban

BUFFALO SABRES

FORWARDS: william carrier, nicolas deslauriers, brian gionta, derek grant, justin kea, matt moulson, cal o'reilly, cole schneider

DEFENSEMEN: brady austin, mathew bodie, zach bogosian, justin falk, taylor fedun, cody franson, josh gorges, dmitry kulikov

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CALGARY FLAMES

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CAROLINA HURRICANES

FORWARDS: bryan bickell, connor brickley, patrick brown, erik karlsson, danny kristo, jay mcclement, andrew miller, andrej nestrasil, joakim nordstrom, lee stempniak, brendan woods

DEFENSEMEN: klas dahlbeck, dennis robertson, philip samuelsson, matt tennyson

GOALTENDERS: daniel altshuller, eddie lack, michael leighton, cam ward

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS

FORWARDS: kyle baun, andrew desjardins, marcus kruger, pierre-cedric labrie, michael latta, brandon mashinter, dennis rasmussen, jordin tootoo

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GOALTENDERS: mac carruth, jeff glass

COLORADO AVALANCHE

FORWARDS: troy bourke, gabriel bourque, rene bourque, joe colborne, turner elson, felix girard, mikhail grigorenko, samuel henley, john mitchell, jim o'brien, brendan ranford, mike sislo, carl soderberg

DEFENSEMEN: mark barberio, mat clark, eric gelinas, cody goloubef, duncan siemens, fedor tyutin, patrick wiercioch

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COLUMBUS BLUE JACKETS

FORWARDS: josh anderson, alex broadhurst, matt calvert, zac dalpe, sam gagner, brett gallant, william karlsson, lauri korpikosko, lukas sedlak, t.j. tynan, daniel zaar

DEFENSEMEN: marc-andre bergeron, scott harrington, jack johnson, kyle quincey, john ramage, jaime sifers, ryan stanton

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DALLAS STARS

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DEFENSEMEN: mattias backman, andrew bodnarchuk, ludwig bystrom, nick ebert, justin hache, dan hamhuis, patrik nemeth, jamie oleksiak, greg pateryn, dustin stevenson

GOALTENDERS: henri kiviaho, maxime legace, kari lehtonen, antti niemi, justin peters

DETROIT RED WINGS

FORWARDS: louis-marc aubry, mitch callahan, colin campbell, martin frk, luke glendening, darren helm, drew miller, tomas nosek, riley sheahan, ben street, eric tangradi

DEFENSEMEN: adam almquist, jonathan ericsson, niklas kronwall, brian lashoff, dylan mcilrath, xavier ouellet, ryan sproul

GOALTENDERS: jared coreau, petr mrazek, edward pasquale, jake peterson

EDMONTON OILERS

FORWARDS: david desharnais, justin fontaine, matt henricks, roman horak, jujhar khaira, anton lander, iiro pakarinen, tyler pitlick, zach pochiro, benoit pouliot, henrik samuelsson, bogdan yakimov

DEFENSEMEN: mark fayne, andrew ference, mark fraser, eric gryba, david musil, jordan oesterle, griffin reinhart, kris russell, dillon simpson

GOALTENDERS: laurent brossoit, jonas gustavsson

FLORIDA PANTHERS

FORWARDS: graham black, tim bozon, jaromir jagr, jussi jokinen, derek mackenzie, jonathan marchessault, colton sceviour, michael sgarbossa, reilly smith, brody sutter, paul thompson, shawn thornton, thomas vanek

DEFENSEMEN: jason demers, jakub kindl, brent regner, reece scarlett, mackenzie weegar

GOALTENDERS: reto berra, sam brittain, roberto luongo

LOS ANGELES KINGS

FORWARDS: andy andreoff, justin auger, dustin brown, kyle clifford, andrew crescenzi, nic dowd, marian gaborik, jarome iginla, trevor lewis, michael mersch, jordan nolan, teddy purcell, devin setoguchi, nick shore

DEFENSEMEN: matt greene, vincent loverde, brayden mcnabb, cameron schilling, rob scuderi, zach trotman

GOALTENDERS: jack campbell, jeff zatkoff

MINNESOTA WILD

FORWARDS: brady brassart, patrick cannone, ryan carter, kurtis gabriel, martin hanzal, erik haula, zack mitchell, jordan schroeder, eric staal, chris stewart, ryan white

DEFENSEMEN: victor bartley, matt dumba, christian folin, guillaume gelinas, alexander gudbranson, gustav olofsson, nate prosser, marco scandella, mike weber

GOALTENDERS: johan gustafsson, darcy kuemper, alex stalock

MONTREAL CANADIENS

FORWARDS: daniel carr, connor crisp, jacob de la rose, bobby farnham, brian flynn, max friberg, charles hudon, dwight king, stefan matteau, torrey mitchell, joonas nattinen, steve ott, tomas plekanec, alexander radulov, chris terry

DEFENSEMEN: brandon davidson, alexei emelin, keegan lowe, andrei markov, nikita nesterov, zach redmond, dalton thrower

GOALTENDERS: al montoya

NASHVILLE PREDATORS

FORWARDS: pontus aberg, cody bass, vernon fiddler, mike fisher, cody mcleod, james neal, p.a. parenteau, adam payerl, mike ribeiro, miikka salomaki, colton sissons, craig smith, trevor smith, austin watson, colin wilson, harry zolnierczyk

DEFENSEMEN: taylor aronson, anthony bitetto, stefan elliot, petter granberg, brad hunt, matt irwin, andrew o'brien, adam pardy, jaynen rissling, scott valentine, yannick weber

GOALTENDERS: marek mazanec

NEW JERSEY DEVILS

FORWARDS: beau bennett, michael cammalleri, carter camper, luke gazdic, shane harper, jacob josefson, ivan khomutov, stefan noeson, marc savard, devante smith-pelly, petr straka, mattias tedenby, ben thomson, david wohlberg

DEFENSEMEN: seth helgeson, viktor loov, ben lovejoy, andrew macwilliam, jon merrill, dalton prout, karl stollery, alexander urbom

GOALTENDERS: keith kinkaid, scott wedgewood

NEW YORK ISLANDERS

FORWARDS: josh bailey, steve bernier, eric boulton, jason chimera, casey cizikas, cal clutterbuck, stephen gionta, ben holmstrom, bracken kearns, nikolay kulemin, brock nelson, shane prince, alan quine, ryan strome, johan sundstrom

DEFENSEMEN: calvin de haan, matthew finn, jesse graham, thomas hickey, loic leduc, scott mayfield, dennis seidenberg

GOALTENDERS: jean-francois berube, christopher gibson, jaroslav halak

NEW YORK RANGERS

FORWARDS: taylor beck, chris brown, daniel catenacci, jesper fast, tanner glass, michael grabner, marek hrivik, nicklas jensen, carl klingberg, oscar lindberg, brandon pirri, matt puempel

DEFENSEMEN: adam clendening, tommy hughes, steven kampfer, kevin klein, michael paliotta, brendan smith, chris summers

GOALTENDERS: magnus hellberg, antti raanta, mackenzie skapski

OTTAWA SENATORS

FORWARDS: casey bailey, mike blunden, alexandre burrows, stephane da costa, christopher didomenico, nikita filatov, chris kelly, clarke macarthur, max mccormick, chris neil, tom pyatt, ryan rupert, bobby ryan, viktor stalberg, phil varone, tommy wingels

DEFENSEMEN: mark borowiecki, fredrik claesson, brandon gormley, jyrki jokipakka, marc methot, patrick sieloff, chris wideman, mikael wikstrand

GOALTENDERS: mike condon, chris driedger, andrew hammond

PHILADELPHIA FLYERS

FORWARDS: pierre-edouard bellemare, greg carey, chris conner, boyd gordon, taylor leier, colin mcdonald, andy miele, michael raffl, matt read, chris vandevelde, jordan weal, dale weise, eric wellwood

DEFENSEMEN: mark alt, tj brennan, michael del zotto, andrew macdonald, will o’neill, jesper pettersson, nick schultz

GOALTENDERS: steve mason, michal neuvirth

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS

FORWARDS: josh archibald, nick bonino, matt cullen, jean-sebastien dea, carl hagelin, tom kuhnhackl, chris kunitz, kevin porter, bryan rust, tom sestito, oskar sundqvist, dominik uher, garrett wilson, scott wilson

DEFENSEMEN: ian cole, frank corrado, trevor daley, tim erixon, cameron gaunce, ron hainsey, stuart percy, derrick pouliot, chad ruhwedel, mark streit, david warsofsky

GOALTENDERS: marc-andre fleury

SAN JOSE SHARKS

FORWARDS: mikkel boedker, barclay goodrow, micheal haley, patrick marleau, buddy robinson, zack stortini, joe thornton, joel ward

DEFENSEMEN: dylan demelo, brenden dillon, dan kelly, paul martin, david schlemko

GOALTENDERS: aaron dell, troy grosenick, harri sateri

ST. LOUIS BLUES

FORWARDS: kenny agostino, andrew agozzino, kyle brodziak, jordan caron, jacob doty, landon ferraro, alex friesen, evgeny grachev, dmitrij jaskin, jori lehtera, brad malone, magnus paajarvi, david perron, ty rattie, scottie upshall, nail yakupov

DEFENSEMEN: robert bortuzzo, chris butler, morgan ellis, carl gunnarsson, jani hakanpaa, petteri lindbohm, reid mcneill

GOALTENDERS: jordan binnington, carter hutton

TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING

FORWARDS: carter ashton, michael bournival, j.t. brown, cory conacher, erik condra, gabriel dumont, stefan fournier, byron froese, yanni gourde, mike halmo, henri ikonen, pierre-luc letourneau-leblond, tye mcginn, greg mckegg, cedric paquette, tanner richard, joel vermin

DEFENSEMEN: dylan blujus, jake dotchin, jason garrison, slater koekkoek, jonathan racine, andrej sustr, matt taormina, luke witkowski

GOALTENDERS: peter budaj, kristers gudlevskis, jaroslav janus, mike mckenna

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS

FORWARDS: brian boyle, eric fehr, colin greening, seth griffith, teemu hartikainen, brooks laich, brendan leipsic, joffrey lupul, milan michalek, kerby rychel, ben smith

DEFENSEMEN: andrew campbell, matt hunwick, alexey marchenko, martin marincin, steve oleksy, roman polak

GOALTENDERS: antoine bibeau, curtis mcelhinney, garret sparks

VANCOUVER CANUCKS

FORWARDS: reid boucher, michael chaput, joseph cramarossa, derek dorsett, brendan gaunce, alexandre grenier, jayson megna, borna rendulic, anton rodin, drew shore, jack skille, michael zalewski

DEFENSEMEN: alex biega, philip larsen, tom nilsson, andrey pedan, luca sbisa

GOALTENDERS: richard bachman, ryan miller

WASHINGTON CAPITALS

FORWARDS: jay beagle, chris bourque, paul carey, brett connolly, stanislav galiev, tyler graovac, garrett mitchell, liam o’brien, t.j. oshie, zach sill, chandler stephenson, christian thomas, nathan walker, justin williams, daniel winnik

DEFENSEMEN: karl alzner, taylor chorney, cody corbett, darren dietz, christian djoos, tom gilbert, aaron ness, brooks orpik, nate schmidt, kevin shattenkirk

GOALTENDERS: pheonix copley, philipp grubauer

WINNIPEG JETS

FORWARDS: marko dano, quinton howden, scott kosmachuk, tomas kubalik, jc lipon, shawn matthias, ryan olsen, anthony peluso, chris thorburn

DEFENSEMEN: ben chiarot, toby enstrom, brenden kichton, julian melchiori, paul postma, brian strait, mark stuart

GOALTENDERS: michael hutchinson, ondrej pavelec

[brilliantidiot42]

[theviolentfembot]

The questions remain. How did so many bombs get placed in the building without anyone noticing? Did the three teenagers found in a field have anything to do with it? They seemed to have had a great deal of knowledge about the shooting. Why did they say no bullies at Columbine? Why haven't the"third-gunman" reports received more attention? Why does the top investigator with the FBI have disturbing ties to Columbine and the shootings? Why were officers told not to talk? Why are some files "missing"? Did Klebold and Harris wear masks, or were other assailants wearing masks? What is to be made of the numerous timeline discrepancies? What happened to them on Jan 30, 1998? Who else knew? Why were Manes and Duran arrested and others not? There are even more questions and fewer answers...

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Bill Zabel's Columbine

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starviego

Bill Zabel's ColumbineLead[-]

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Nov 19 06 3:53 PM

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Bill Zabel is a long-time Columbine researcher who lives in the Denver area. He recently did a series of telephone interviews at "Vyzygoth's Grassy Knoll,"(based in Tampa, Fla) link here:

www.vyzygoth.com/index.html

Click on the below links to listen to his interviews:

vyzygoth.com/audio/zabel11-1-06.mp3

vyzygoth.com/audio/zabel11-13-06.mp3

vyzygoth.com/audio/zabel11-16-06.mp3

--------------------

Tidbits and Oddities

Some of what Zabel says is a little bit out there, but all in all he seems to know his subject. He didn't name his source in everything he said, though he does seem to have talked to many of the players. Excerps:

--MIB(men in black) were walking the halls at 9am, the student thought they were cops.

--On Monday, 4-12-99, the week before, the school had a mock shooting and a lock down.

--Wound to Klebold was to the back of his head, not the side.

--The DEA was called in because they had infrared scanning equipment.

--MIB were shooting at each other in the gym, according to one girl.{They could be talking about the rumored 'armed response' between SWAT teams at about 3pm}

--Josh Ladd, who died later in that air crash, said MIB were chasing each other in the hall.

--The DECCA banquet, which many students used to excuse their absense that morning, actually occured the DAY BEFORE, on Monday, April 19. Zabel found this out when he went to the Welshire Inn and a manager and another employee there confirmed that. Susan Keating compiled a list of students who went to that baquent and it is dated 4-19-99. {The implication being, I guess, that numerous students had foreknowledge and were told to use that DECCA function as an excuse.}

--He watched Bree Pasquale's interview on TV, quoted her as saying '"OMG, the parents were involved" Pasquale allegedly said that the library shooter look like Klebold, only older.

--Harris' dad was seen with H&K that day, before the shooting. He was also not at work that day.

--The BBC showed a video clip of three vehicles driving down one of the pathways near the school in Clement Park. First vehicle was a state trooper car, the second was a large black panel van, followed by a green mini-van full of MIB. The person sitting in the front passenger seat, also dressed in the uniform, was Thomas Klebold, Dylan's father.

--Three girls that Zabel interviewed were told they would disappear if they kept talking.

--One student descibed the shooters as men wearing ski masks, not students.

--About five students said the 'splatter punks' were inside the school at some point.

--Rachel Scott and Cassie Bernall were associated with the trenchcoat mafia at some point.

--Says reconstruction of cafeteria afterwards involved putting a Wiccan symbol-something having to do with tree branches-on the ceiling(ceiling of the old library area).

--Judy Greco, special ed teacher, admitted to being a practicing Wiccan to the Rocky Mountain News, and was putting kids into a trance in her class. Judy Greco was involved in helping H&K to put their 'basement tapes' together.

--Nate Dykeman was seen in the office area with a weapon. Robert Perry was 250-280lbs at that time and was also a shooter. Chris Morris would have been the rooftop shooter. Stair was also there. Zabel says that all four had a parent working for law enforcement.

--a .45cal pistol and an AR-15 were also found on the scene.

--He claims to have video of the FBI bringing someone dressed in black out of the school on a stretcher. The face is covered by a towel.

--Rumors of more victims than the ones named were common amongst the police.

--Zabel saw a video clip of a guy holding a shiel with 'NATO' on it.

--One of cop's rooftop snipers was an Italian guy who barely spoke English who said he was some kind of a foreign exchange program.

--At the memorial service couple of days later the street was lined with soldiers carrying M-16 rifles. Onlookers were allegedly intimidated by the display. There were also numerous military brass there, admirals and generals from all the services.

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starviego

Re: Bill Zabel's Columbine  

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Part 4 of Zabel's Columbine interview over at Vyzygoth:

vyzygoth.com/audio/zabel11-27-06.mp3

Excerps:

--102 bombs & devices found in the school(unk if he included those found in their cars); 24 of them were 20lb propane tanks!!

--Witnesses saw 'devices' out in the open before the shooting started, including one kid who saw one in a trashcan in a science classroom.(Possbly referring to that special-ed kid who muttered something about 'bombs in a trashcan' the day before)

--In his statement, science teacher Kent Friesen admitted showing the students how to make pipe bombs. When the cops searched his room, the found several sitting in wire basket sitting on his desk.

--Students accused ex-student Cory Friesen of carrying some of the gear into the school.

--Denver SWAT found the kitchen bomb on 4-21(elsewhere reported as being discovered on 4-22), after the area had been declared secured of bombs at about 9:30pm on 4-20. FBI SA Rich Price said this bomb was too sophisticated for teenagers to have constructed, and included a mercury switch attached to a timing mechanism(probably taped to one of the watch hands?)

[Note: this kitchen bomb was also reported elsewhere to have had a remote-control detonation device]

--Three witnesses-- a JeffCo deputy and a couple of 'CSI' types--witnessed the BATF carrying a device INTO the school the night of the 20th. That night dispatch called Denver SWAT to assist JeffCo in looking for four men who went into the school without authorization. Denver SWAT encountered four BATF in the school at the top of the cafeteria stairwell, who told them they got lost trying to hook-up with another SWAT team.

--Zabel had the opportunity to talk to some the BATF at the Columbine Review Commission meetings. He said they were heavy-duty, neo-nazi biker-types, who he said were "mouthing-off" and using the 'F-word' a lot.

--The follow-up interviews of two of the main janitors were never released, and they were fired after 4-20.

--Zabel also talked to John Stone, who always used the phrase "the people involved in this" instead of "Harris and Klebold" when talking about the suspects.

--He says that FBI SA Rich Price took credit for not allowing the cops to go in, in an interview with the DenverRockyMountainNews of 4-21-99, "becasue I had a team collecting intelligence and that team had to finish their jobs first before SWAT could go in."

--In the wake of Columbine, new non-disclosure laws were created allowing schools involved in future incidents to duck any questions about what they knew or didn't know.

--The TCM employed secret signs and handshakes(like the Masons, I guess).

mama4paws

Re: Bill Zabel's Columbine  

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Will we ever know the truth?? What really happened? HummmJust my two cents

~~Mama~~

"There are things known and things unknown and in between are the doors." Jim Morrison

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CyanideKoolaid

Wow  

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This is a lot to take in. It all seems so bizarre that it would have to be false. Why on earth would so many people, go through this much trouble, to kill some high school kids? The only thing that sounded authentic was the possibility that dylan was shot through the back of the head and not the side. Eric may have shot him, the SWAT team may have shot him. I don't know. What do you make of all these details though Mama?

GnosticPrince

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Do you have these original shows downloaded ?  The links do not work anymore because the Vyzygoth site is for sale now.

Lord Carpainter

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GnosticPrince wrote:Do you have these original shows downloaded ?  The links do not work anymore because the Vyzygoth site is for sale now.

I found them on a streaming website once. You couldn't download them, but you could listen to them. I can't find them now.

thecure

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I have the .mp3 files for all 4 parts, don't know how to send them though

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thecure wrote:I have the .mp3 files for all 4 parts, don't know how to send them though

Upload Audio Files | Share Audio | Upload Music | Download Audio | YourListen

thecure

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http://yourlisten.com/cha...907594/Bill+Zabel+Part+1

http://yourlisten.com/cha...907595/Bill+Zabel+part+2

http://yourlisten.com/cha...907596/Bill+Zabel+part+3

http://yourlisten.com/cha...907597/Bill+Zabel+part+4

Lord Carpainter

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Bill Zabel did another audio with Binall of America on September 10, 2013.

http://www.cyberears.com/cybrss/20518.mp3

He starts in about how the evangelical base in the area surrounding Columbine High refuses to acknowledge the involvement of Dylan Klebold because it is a deep sin to "blame the Jew." Later he's discussing the massacre at Virginia Tech. When the interviewer remarks that he hasn't heard anything about other suspects at Virginia Tech, he mentions that the witnesses reported an assailant who was six feet tall and says: "This is an Asian kid, he probably wasn't more than 5'8, 5'9!"

He doesn't make much sense for most of the interview. He goes into his April 19 theory (he now believes it was a drill instead of a hostage situation) and states that the massacre in Aurora was completely fake. He believes they use actors to simulate the more recent events because they don't want to get caught in the act of real ones. Another of his anecdotes regards a woman who disappeared who had information that supports the January Incident theory. It is indeed interesting that John DeCamp, another researcher with close CIA ties, has come out in support of this theory recently. Also interesting in that I recall Ron Aigner and Bill Zabel having a rather heated argument on Facebook some time ago about Donna Taylor's credibility.

He also relates a story about how a woman was told to shut up about the massacre at Columbine by a powerful man in Europe known as "Hans Kolvenbach." The Black Pope? Telling a woman to hush up in a restaurant?

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Lord Carpainter

Oct 13 13 2:16 PM. Edited 2 times.

starviego

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Even the interviewer is having doubts about his guest. At one point the host says "Every time I talk to you Bill it gets stranger and stranger, I don't know.... ." Bottom line is that Zabel makes all sorts of claims but never cites sources. His credibility is low, to put it lightly.

evanlong

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To put it

very

lightly.

http://www.EvanLong.net/

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[shakingbox]

FRIESEN/WATERS DUO "NO. 3" shakingboxmusic.bandcamp.com/album/no-3 cassette edition of 84 / shipping july devin friesen: gtr, tapes nate waters: alto & tenor saxophone recorded/mixed by d.f. w/tascam 244 in the library basement (calgary ab) mostly summer 2016, a little 2014 (Shaking Box)

[armsinthewronghands]

Complete Text of the Get At Him Post

This post is frequently used as “evidence” I have a secret harassment group:

..also note anyone named in the comments should be able to confirm to the public the transcripts match the private post and anyone can ask to be added to the circles and confirm for themselves.

Zak Sabbath

Shared privately

Aug 04, 2014

I dunno who this fuck is but he has 15,000 followers, please get at him:

https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/496492230756954112

Gary Bernhardt (garybernhardt) on Twittertwitter.com

4 plus ones438 comments38no sharesShared privately•

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Corey BrinI don't use twitter but I boosted the signal.  Aug 4, 2014

David BlackGet at him?Hide this commentAug 4, 2014

Corey Brin+David Eglinton hit him up?  Correct him?  Eat him?Aug 4, 2014

Zak Sabbath+2get on twitter. tweet at him, ask questions, give links. I have a girlfirend in the hospital and 111 trolls to deal with please just either help or don't but pls no silly nerd questions.Aug 4, 2014

David Black"Silly nerd questions" please tell me what's silly about asking for clarification on an ambiguous statement "Get at him" can mean a lot if things, to different people depending on where you live. In the UK (or my area of it) "get at him" does NOT mean send him some tweets, ask him some questions. It's the equivalent of saying "get 'em boys!"Hide this commentAug 4, 2014

Zak Sabbathassume the meaning most consistent with everything I've said up until nowAug 4, 2014

David BlackAssumptions are bad, literal meaning - especially when you can talk direct to an author of words, is far superior.Hide this commentAug 5, 2014

Zak Sabbathi just do not have the patience this evening--if you don't understand it, just ignore the post, DavidAug 5, 2014

David BlackThat's ok, get back to me when you have more headspace.Hide this commentAug 5, 2014

David BlackI'm always excellent to others, that's a given. But no assumptions I'm afraid, zaks a literal guy - he says what he means, so hence the need for clarification. We haven't covered why that's silly, but he's got a lot on his plate and I'm cool with picking it up at a later date.Hide this commentAug 5, 2014

Zak SabbathSee these people? Do what they are doing: https://twitter.com/garybernhardt/status/496492230756954112 or don'tAug 5, 2014

Alex OsiasAs of 11 minutes ago, he took notice: "@cwlcks why did you just cc random people I've never heard of who then called me a moron and linkspammed me?"Aug 5, 2014

Zak SabbathThanks for the update, +Alexander Osias It's really appreciated that we're not handling this bullshit all alone. Got  a lot going on right now.Aug 5, 2014

Jeremy FriesenHe is a well known software developer in the open source python and ruby community. He runs DestroyAllSoftware.Aug 5, 2014

Zak Sabbath+1I dunno what any of that meansAug 5, 2014

David BlackPython and Ruby are programming languages.Hide this commentAug 5, 2014

Viktor Haag+1And, based on his talks I've seen, he seems witty, very sharp, and also perhaps a bit left leaning or socially conscious. He might also not react well to what's just happened and very well see it as being virtually leapt upon. I'm not saying he's right, because I think he fell into a pothole and then posted perhaps without due diligence. However, I also think that having a bunch of people suddenly show up in his twitter feed to throw links at him, throw some insults at him, and demand retractions might well provoke a reaction from him you don't want. Partly, because, on the surface, this may seem to confirm the tone of the original piece he's read and not counter it. Is there a better way here?Aug 5, 2014

Jeremy FriesenDestroyAllSoftware.com is/was a subscription based education site. He recorded several hundred 15 minute or so segments. It was popular and I subscribed for a bit. I am not aware of Gary's direct contributions to any ruby or python projects but his screencasts were influential. Ruby and Python are two different programming languages popular in web application development. Both communities are similar in composition to gaming: lots of white guys being one common aspect.Aug 5, 2014

Nate Lumpkin+1+Viktor Haag I don't know man, if anything all these people offering him unsolicited links are doing him a favor by doing the hard work for him. Which he's apparently too stupid or lazy to do himself before endorsing libel to thousands of people.Aug 5, 2014

Jeremy Friesen+1I informed him that the post was a bunch of half truths and asked if he would like rebuttal links. Waiting. He gets a lot of tweets so I will follow up later today.Aug 5, 2014

Zak Sabbath+Viktor Haag Then do the better thing.Aug 5, 2014

David Pretty+2We don't have to be insulting. I just wrote..."@garybernhardt This article is a poisonous house of cards and shouldn't be propagated without a dollop of truth. https://plus.google.com/113806813961952334299/posts/bqmKQrjTS6f"Aug 5, 2014

Viktor Haag+1+Nate Lumpkin Everyone falls into potholes on the internet. We have no clue how tapped in to the hobby he is. He's never appeared in G+ in any of the RPG circles I've seen, I've never seen him on Storygames or rpgnet. Literally 90% of my regular gaming groups would not have had any clue about this issue if I hadn't told them (or would have come to it much later), because despite connecting some people together alarmingly well, the web doesn't connect everyone to everything. I think Gary certainly should be responsible, look more deeply, and then offer an apology or retraction, or at least delete his original tweet. But it's entirely possible he came to this from an entirely different corner of the world, read it not because he's passionate about RPGs, but because he's passionate about other things (diversity?), opened the door, and then had the inhabitants suddenly rush the doorway, throwing links and words at him. All I'm wondering is if there isn't a better way to deal with when this kind of thing happens than rushing the door, that's all. Perhaps there isn't, because that's just how the internet works. Fair enough. Aug 5, 2014

Nate Lumpkin+2+Viktor Haag I suppose that my point is that this issue isn't about being tapped into the hobby. You don't need to be tapped deeply into anything to read the Fail Forward article and tell that something is very wrong with it. It's riddled with spelling and grammatical mistakes and logical errors from top to bottom. On top of that, the writer of the article is making serious real-world accusations without providing evidence or links to evidence. It's a mark of real thoughtlessness to reshare this piece. And indeed this Gary person was caught in his thoughtlessness: when the tweet was copied to Zak and Mandy, his response was "Why did you just cc random people I've never heard of?" If he's someone who doesn't read links or words (which is what appears to be the case), then all these people talking to him will be alarming, and he'll panic, and out himself as a fool. Which is what just happened, incidentally. But if he does read links and words, then no harm is done, and he gets smarter. But if you can find a better way then by all means.Aug 5, 2014

Jeremy FriesenI reached out to the two retweeters as I did with Gary. I offered to provide rebuttal links.Aug 5, 2014

Viktor Haag+1+Nate Lumpkin you make some excellent points. Thank you for making them. +Zak Smith you are correct, and in retrospect, given what Bernhardt did, and what you and +Mandy Morbid did, and what ended up happening with the rest of the replies to his tweet, I particularly here have not much of a leg to stand on at all. I apologize to you and Mandy for thinking I did. My default stance is not to escalate or confront, even when that might be the only thing needed, wanted, or warranted.Aug 5, 2014

Viktor Haag+1+David Pretty  You have a point; and I will note that a large number of replies on the thread are more neutral in tone than they could have been (and often are in other places on the internetz). In other words, despite my knee-jerk reactions, this twitter thread seems to actually be in direct opposition to my fears: it actually is remarkably neutral and compassionate, all things considered (at least, it was the last time I checked).Aug 5, 2014

Jeremy FriesenGiven that Gary has not tweeted in 4 hours. It is possible he was asking for a stop on tweets so he could pursue more information. He is a voracious learner.Aug 5, 2014

Kat Fisher+1I was a bit late to the party, but I linked him to the thing I wrote last week or so with all the links in. You've got support here, especially now while you've got more important things to worry about than asshats on the internet. Aug 5, 2014

Corey Brin+Jeremy Friesen or his head exploded.Aug 5, 2014

Ramanan SThat tweet doesn't exist anymore.Aug 5, 2014

Zak Sabbath+1Well that's nice--though the damage done by a tweet is in the first few minutes it's up and shld be fixed by a public apology.Aug 5, 2014

Ramanan S+1Yeah, seems a bit obnoxious to just quietly remove it. Is that ever really face-saving? Also I have learned we have 7 followers in common on Twitter. The internet is a small world.Aug 5, 2014

Zak Sabbathprobably all D&D peopleAug 5, 2014

Ramanan SNah, they're all programmers. I wonder how he ended up stumbling on that article in the first place. Aug 5, 2014

Ramanan SOh wait, this guy did the WAT talk. How can he be bad? I don't even know what to believe anymore. https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/watAug 5, 2014

Viktor HaagHis other freely available talks (especially the one on boundaries) seem to point to him not being a schnook. Still, one never knows, I guess.Aug 5, 2014

Zak Sabbath+1Attention and sorry to bother you This is an olllllld historical footnote for Non- DIY D&D regulars +Cam Banks +Sage LaTorra  +Vincent Baker +Paul Czege. This is probably not important and requires no response from you, but: In case you didn't know, you are in (and have always been in ) the "secret inner G+ circle" where the conspiracy theories claims I posted this and other instructions to harass people... (like here http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3681296&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=10#post438951696 ) So if you ever hear any of your friends repeating the idea that I have a secret RPG circle where I tell people to harass my foes, you can just click over and see it and the entire contents of my Evil Empire right there in your feed. This is the same circle where my alleged "harassment list" is https://plus.google.com/u/0/110352289066114829231/posts/Vb1R7kenYxc and the place where I posted a metafilter link with just the word "destroy" https://plus.google.com/u/0/110352289066114829231/posts/AXqgBVpGoqV Alright, that's all. Again, sorry to bother you. -z