#Okay taking a break from talking about Dawntrail for real

[aotopmha]

Being too exhausted to play has made me think about the Dawntrail story again.

I wanted to take a break, but it occupies my brain too much, turns out and I engaged with takes on the internet again.

(Some of it is really dumb and a negativity void with zero substance, which is, in fact, unfun and exhausting, as it is designed to be, so it probably is better to not engage with, but I also do very much enjoy discussing what I love and it offers fantastic springboards for that.)

Spoilers for the Dawntrail story!

You know the complaint that it's "not as good as Shadowbringers or Endwalker"?

Well, I think a lot of people have actually echoed this, but I really like that Dawntrail is not trying to one-up them.

It's really good that it's not only pulling back the scale, but also lightening up the tone.

In particular, there was a complaint I saw that said HW, ShB and EW were these "deep and dark" stories and had issues with DT not being that kind of narrative and I think a story being Endwalker all of the time would become boring in its own right.

If all you see is positivity, eventually it means nothing, but this is also true in the opposite sense.

If all you see is misery all of the time, at one point, it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Eventhough I myself mostly enjoyed it, I can see the argument that it went too far in the other direction and handled some ideas too simplistically, but I think the general idea to do this is a really good, refreshing move.

It's similar thematically (which is actually my biggest issue), but I really like that it mostly focused on new stories with new characters.

I also like that the Scions are taking a backseat.

I saw an opinion that "you can't have your cake and eat it, too" in regards of the Scions being minor roles and you should either write them out completely or entirely focus the story on them, but personally I don't see any issue with this.

They were set up to be support and behaved as such. I don't understand the take that they were "teased" too much when the setup was that it was not their story to begin with.

Now, I do think the friendly rivalry aspect was underutilised. I feel like getting to fight Thancred and Urianger in good fun would've been great, for example.

I love the vibe of adventure we haven't really had for such a long time, and I really think the mystery of the City of Gold might be one of the best ones in the entire narrative because many of the mysteries so far at least have some aspect of retconning to them.

The gate and everything with it is entirely new and didn't need any retconning to fit within the current concepts of the story, whereas you could always tell they had to slightly tweak everything with the Ascians once in a while.

I think the fact that most of the characters that people do like from this expansion are entirely new or characters we knew fairly little about before Dawntrail says it all.

People actually do want new stuff. I think the mostly positive response towards the actual gameplay content says this, too.

So I hope they don't give up on what they've built here despite some of the really loud negative voices.

Don't start trying to do Endwalker or Shadowbringers again before building a new bigger picture.

We've talked about legacy and memory and loss a bunch of times already; evolve from this and do something *entirely* new with new characters and ALSO entirely new theming.

Don't give up on making content just a little more engaging.

That's my worry in light of these very loud complaints.

And the thing is, during the Endwalker patch cycle and even before, these are things so many people wanted.

People wanted a break from the Scions. People wanted the story to reset and relax after Endwalker because it had been within that dark tone for so long.

People wanted us to go back to being an adventurer.

People were tired of the increasingly same-y encounter design (and lack of stuff to do during patch downtime, which you can also see improved in terms of certain rewards; thing is what I've seen is people loving the new content so much they just like playing it and I feel the same way, so it isn't always even more grinds or rewards people actually want).

And that's exactly what they gave us.

Again, I don't know the overlap between audience groups here, but in terms of sentiment, that's the craziest part to me.

They kind of gave us exactly what we asked for.

And I really hope they stick to their guns and get braver from here because new is fun and even if it doesn't always succeed, you can look at what people like and don't like and go from there in a more nuanced way, rather than leaning on overcorrective decisions as they have in terms of certain aspects of the game. It just stops the game from stagnating and getting boring in all aspects.

[tritoch]

i've seen a lot of people complain about the dawntrail final dungeon for being a thing that we have basically already done and i understand and in many ways agree with that complaint but i do think it varies from the usual in ways that are actually pretty compelling.

spoilers for dawntrail follow, natch.

like okay in amaurot and the dead ends and the lunar subterrane (okay this is definitely a well CBU3 has gone to too many times), the premise is the fights you're engaging in are all kind of historical. behold, the dooms of amaurot. tremble before ra-la, a real sphinx that actually existed once somewhere. face durante, just as golbez faced him in real life.

and accordingly, because all the fighting is supposed to match the energy of the dungeons, these are moments of panic and peril. the world is ending. the worlds are ending. the kingdom is on fire. there's a solemn villain voiceover to really drive the point home (we just wanted to play...on da amaurotine playground...). amaurot is falling and look how sad it is. every world died and look how painful it was. my best buddy golbez died and it was really sad. everything is Fucked Up.

what's really fun about alexandria by contrast, particularly in the first part, is that things are fine, actually! sphene's here (well, "heah"), and we love her, and she smiles because we smile and we smile for her :). oh no alexandria is falling and it's so sad and noble because of everyone's chivalric sacrifices :( oh yay we're rebuilding from the ashes :)

it's a beautiful, tragic, noble story. and the whole time no one's talking to you, not like normal. sphene's kind of reciting the lyrics to memory from cats listlessly but everyone in her memories is talking to each other, not to you. none of them are interacting with you. you're not fighting alongside her against her enemies or taking down conjured horrors from the past.

no, the whole time you're being reminded of one very specific fact.

You're foreign. You're not from here. This is not for you. This is not yours. This peace was not yours and never will be. This grief, this hope. You chose otherwise. You were offered the chance to be Alexandrian. You rejected it. Stay over there. Stay out. You are not wanted here.

in what i personally choose to interpret as a bit of dark comedy, when things start breaking down, it's literally one of the only words you still understand.

ultimately what distinguishes alexandria from amaurot or the dead ends (intentional "this is why i'm sad" slideshows made specifically for the warrior of light to experience) or the lunar subterrane (accidental memory recreation) is that you are choosing to invade sphene's memories. you are doing a cool little backdoor heist at the luxor casino by causing chaos all over the strip before you crawl through the vents to get to the mainframe or whatever.

but in the context of dawntrail, alexandria is the invading power, the rapacious techno-dystopia that intends to carry out forever wars so it can use the literal souls of its enemies to power its treat machines and which not so coincidentally spawned in north america. and alexandria has literally invaded both tuliyollal and yyasulani at this point. so the conceit of the memory guardians helps make clear the hegemonic logic at play. you are a foreign entity. you are not a subject of the state. your life has no value. you must be removed.

or, if removal proves impossible, exterminated.

[tritoch]

miscellaneous wol characterization thoughts post-dawntrail

since wolund is supposed to be as close to canon wol as possible i think about this stuff a lot. huge spoilers through the end of 7.0. non-exhaustive list

we're WAY more chilled out now. very consciously avoiding combat or taking up arms until absolutely necessary. in retrospect you could sort of tie that back as far as the endwalker patches so maybe my new canon is now just that wolund lays down his sword after the zenos fight. we're done looking for new fights because we fought our greatest rival at the end of existence in a place made real by our willpower and where we were strengthened by our emotions. the conflagration of our clash scorched even the stars--and now we are kind of burned out!

there's a recurring thing where alisaie keeps saying you should take a break when you've not done any more work than the rest of the team, and there's also the moment where she's like "oof okay. i guess you gotta go into living memory. aight :\" and i think that's fun. as far as scions go this was really her and g'raha's expansion emotionally.

so much of the wol's stuff here is about what you don't do or say. you don't step in during the bakool ja ja fight, either the kidnapping or the wuk lamat fight. during valigarmanda, you very pointedly don't talk about prior experiences fighting primals or even your experience with the auspices, because this is wuk's big moment and you've gotta let her have it. you don't ever draw direct comparisons to emet-selch or other things with wuk lamat when sphene comes up because you're letting her figure things out herself. we've evolved from hot-blooded hero to wizened mentor, and we've gone sharply back to a heavensward-ish number of dialogue options. we're VERY quiet.

the gulool ja ja fight really is the one time you cut loose! and you're explicitly denied the chance to test yourself against him in his prime 1 on 1. there's a subtle undercurrent that basically every single fight in dawntrail is kind of "beneath" the wol in the sense that it doesn't require their exclusive attention in the way that Only You Could Fight Meteion, even if you're clearly the strongest combatant and wuk lamat says they couldn't have beaten zoraal ja without you. no one except gulool ja ja really takes your full measure in this expansion. i think a g'raha-level fighter probably could have helped the wuk lamat team clear everything just fine, and he's definitely supposed to be below you and estinien level even if he's an all-rounder.

that kind of denial of anything truly satisfying on the wol's level...seems very intentional? it's interesting that after the credits you're explicitly like "yeah i'm gonna be outta here soon." shadowbringers you had to resolve the scion's dimension hopping problems, endwalker cuts you off before you can say what's next, but here you're like "yeah this was fun but honestly not that big a deal to me. i like you and i know you think of me as surrogate family after losing your dad and mom and brother but i am in fact gonna bounce." the key is obviously more immediately interesting to the adventurer than anything about tural.

oh my god. oh my god wolund is already a deadbeat dad to a young woman in her 20s. he's gonna ditch wuk lamat too. my god what an asshole. this is so fucking funny.

i think i'm gonna go back and have wolund be a scholar as early as 6.1 and see how that changes things for me. i think i'll find it a lot more satisfying if i'm like "he came to tural because he's done fighting" instead of the "he now loves fighting even more" i'd been carrying through endwalker patches.