#TIOHD MAcc

[thingsioncehelddear]

My MAcc Experience: A Guest Post by Ben Ma, MAcc

Ello, I am not Annie. She asked me to write a lil bit about my experience in MAcc. I am her not-imaginary boyfriend/supplier of stuffed animals. A lil intro about me, for those of you that don’t know, my name is Ben Ma, I recently completed both the MAcc program at UWaterloo and the CFE. I’m starting work as a Taxation Analyst at CIBC. Some of you may know me as:

Former VP Education of AFSA.

One of the Tax Mentors at UWAFSA’s Tax Clinic.

The Textbook Guy.

I have an unhealthy obsession about puns, mangoes and the Canadian Tax system (I kid you not).

I’m going to preface this post with a few notes:

I haven’t taken all the courses, and obviously my discussion isn’t necessarily representative of an MAcc discussion.

I’m a self-proclaimed tax geek, so almost all the courses I took were tax electives. Some I recommend for all people, tax or otherwise, some I don’t recommend at all.

I’m going to say a lot of bad puns. Deal with it.

I’m going to break this down into two sections – the courses, and the MAcc experience.

♛ MACC EXPERIENCE ♛

I am going to say this upfront: You don’t learn any new content in MAcc. What you learn in MAcc isn’t so much new information, but more so of a new way to approach a situation, and learn how to write cases, and present information in such a way that it would be useful to a user. You’ll have already learned everything you needed before in an undergrad course- now you need to … Master that knowledge.

There’s also no homework that you technically need to do. Same as undergrad, you could probably not do assignments/cases and just coast on by. But you are going to suffer a LOT if you don’t prepare for class. Because MAcc is just so case-based, not doing the cases takes out at least 50% of the learning. For the love of God, if you didn’t prepare for class before, now is the time to do it.

If you thought you did well in undergrad and none of this advice applies to you, get your head out of your ass. I went into MAcc with an 88% average, and I still managed to get a 28% on a final exam. Now’s the time to start preparing for class, reviewing, and for the love of God, start showing your work. In MAcc your final answer doesn’t really matter that much unlike in undergrad. I struggled in the beginning because I would just go straight to the answer. But now what’s important is your process. You could be completely off base with your final answer, but if you showed your work 90% of the way, you can probably get 90% of the answers.

♛ COURSES ♛

Considering how the MAcc program is really just a substitute for a PEP program, and is really just a super prep course for the CFE, I think it would be reasonable to talk about how well the course prepares you for the CFE, and how interesting/useful it is.

MANDATORY COURSES

ACC 611: Financial Reporting

One of your mandatory courses for the first term. Ya know all those X91 courses in AFM? Here’s a situation and now let’s do parts A B C of the question? Yeah, I don’t think you can count on those courses anymore.

ACC 611 is really one of your big exposures to CFE style cases, and it’s a huge change from the way undergrad wanted you to present information. Now the focus isn’t so much on the solution, but on the process that you used to approach the situation. This course also put a much bigger focus on actually knowing the accounting standards. I really struggled in this course (this is the one I bombed the exam on) because I didn’t have a structure, and I essentially guessed my way around the exam.  Thankfully I ended up fixing this before the CFE. A big part of how to improve and prepare in this course is just a LOT of practice. After a while, you start becoming more familiar with the standards, and how to approach the problem. A big thing that helped me fix up my approach was starting to use a case writing structure.

Outline the issue

Discuss the standard if applicable

Apply case facts to the standard

Recommend corrections if necessary.

ACC 680: Managerial Accounting

Remember AFM 211? Welcome back to it. This course is essentially a more difficult version of AFM 211. You’ll become very familiar with how to structure a DCF in this course. Thankfully that’s really the only thing that’ll happen in this course, a few variations on how to do a DCF, it’s really quite … manageable. I usually found this course to be a lot more straightforward than the other courses, what they usually want is the same: one quantitative analysis and a qualitative analysis, and provide a recommendation based on that. A lot of how to prepare for this class is really do a lot of practice cases until DCFs are ingrained in your mind.

CPA ELECTIVE COURSES

The CPA elective courses are supposed to represent the four elective roles that you can take in the CFE: Audit, Tax, Finance and Performance Management. Each course will teach you how to achieve depth in that particular area. I only took Tax and Finance myself.

ACC 607: Tax

This course is essentially AFM 462 intensified. You’ll do a case every single week, and they’re not going to be easy, it’s quite…taxing and you may or may not have to remember obscure tax facts. Here’s the thing about tax though, you’re never expected to have a perfect answer. In addition, any case in ACC 607 will be twice as hard as any case in the CFE. I honestly believe that the ACC 607 course overprepares you for the CFE, to the extent that you’ll be very comfortable doing the tax role if you decide to do it.

For this class, again, you should at least attempt the practice problems. In this case you’re always going to miss something though. I think it’d be more helpful to do these cases in a group setting, and make sure you take very detailed notes in class, this is the one class where notes in class are very important. I find tax to inherently be very reliant on technical aspects, more so than the other electives – note taking is imperative as a result.

ACC 690: Finance

This is one course I don’t recommend. Yes, it does provide you the information you need for the CFE, but I honestly feel like the course is just a rehash from some undergrad courses. Some of the slides are the same as 3rd year AFM 373... typos included. It’s also the only one of the elective courses that doesn’t test you on a case based exam. It’s not hard to prepare for this course either, you can’t really exceed or do poorly in it. All in all, compared to the other CPA Elective courses, it’s not as well designed or structured in my opinion.

If I had to recommend 2 courses that you should take, I would recommend Audit and Tax. Lame standard choices I know. But I think that the things you learn in these courses are harder to pick up on your own, whereas the things you learn in the other courses can be learned through practice or common sense. Needless to say, you should also choose electives that match the role you’re planning on taking for the CFE.

MACC ELECTIVE COURSES

ACC 605: International Tax

If you are not a fan of tax, this is not the course for you. This is a very tax research-heavy course that will discuss the implications of taxes in multiple jurisdictions and how the Canadian Tax system accounts for it. Though this is a great way to understand how tax works, I have to admit, this will not be useful for the CFE. At all. It’s unlikely you’re going to use this in work either, as it’s a very complex topic and requires a lot of expertise and research, unless you’re going into some international tax advisory role. Definitely not a course to take if you want a bird course. But if you have a passion for tax, I highly recommend this course. It’s hard, but satisfying when you understand it.

ACC 662: Tax Policy

I didn’t take this course, but I’ve talked to a lot of classmates about it. You know how I said International Tax was tax research-heavy? This one is even heavier. This is a course that teaches you why and how policymakers develop taxes, and you’ll write some essays on particular topics. Again, not an easy course, and not for those who don’t like tax. But if you’re considering a PhD in the future, or a future in academia, or even tax policy, this is highly recommended, as this will literally walk you through what you need to do when researching tax.

ACC 690: Tax for the CFO

I cannot recommend this course enough, especially if you’re entering a tax role in industry. This course teaches you how companies actually prepare tax provisions and it’ll give you a very good understanding of IAS 12 (Taxes), combining accounting and taxes in a comprehensive way. It’s useful for the CFE, as it’ll teach you IAS 12 very thoroughly, and adjustments to reach taxable income if tax is your weak point. I’m currently in a taxation role at CIBC, and what I did in this course is going to be directly transferable to my role.

ACC 606: Business Valuations

I also highly recommend this course. One of the major parts that you can be tested on in Finance is valuations. This course teaches you how to approach a valuation, and is incredibly useful for the CFE if you are weak in Finance. If you’re a Finance person, this course also moves you directly to the second exam for the CBV designation if you’re interested.

♛

Well, that’s pretty much my overview of what I thought about courses and how to prepare for them. If you have any other questions, feel free to reach out to me. I can be reached by Facebook, Twitter, summoning through the Dark Arts, or smoke signals.

[thingsioncehelddear]

For applying to macc, if you meet the requirements, what are the chances of receiving an offer?

If you meet the requirements, you will receive an offer.

[thingsioncehelddear]

Hi Annie, do you know when our average starts counting towards Macc? i have been hearing many things; that it starts in 3A, in 2A and in 2B and I don't know what is right haha. Thanks so much! Also, i am going into my 3A term and was wondering if you know whether there are participation marks (there were quite a lot in 2B, which I found kind of stupid) Thanks so much again!

Hi! :)

I would contact Erin Nearing, the Graduate Studies Coordinator for MAcc, simply because I know that my year was an exception in terms of when our average began counting, and I don’t want to give you the wrong information. Let her know what year you’re in, and she’ll be able to let you know how your admission average will be calculated.

There are participation marks in practically every course in 3A and onwards. I know, it sucks.

[thingsioncehelddear]

Hi Annie, just wondering, do a lot of people start getting engaged/married when they're in MAcc?

LOL omg a question I would like answered myself. I wouldn’t say “a lot” but there are a few people who have gotten engaged. xD

[thingsioncehelddear]

hey annie, have you apply to OGS Scholarship when you were planning to go try for Macc? If so, can you share the details and stuff. thanks a lot!

I did not apply to any scholarships when I applied to MAcc, but here is a link to information on the Ontario Graduate Scholarship. :)

Hope this helps!

[thingsioncehelddear]

UPDATE: < 60% in MAcc-Required Courses

I asked the MAcc Assistant Director, and the alternative pathway (51-Hour-Credit Pathway in the PDF) I mentioned below will not be available for you guys. The Class of 2017 was the last year to which this alternative pathway applied. For every cohort thereafter, you must achieve a minimum of 60% in MAcc-required courses to be eligible for admission, without exception.

This is unfortunate for you guys. :(

[thingsioncehelddear]

Hi, why did SAF say that MAcc is not for everyone? and what do you mean "If you achieve less than 60% in an MAcc-required course, you can still do MAcc!"? We don't get kick out? Like we can still obtain our MAcc degree, but have to go other pahways (like take courses) to be eligible for writing the CFE exam? also, i have been hearing ppl doing a graduate diploma after their BBA/Bcomm degree. Can we AFM student do it cuz i heard it skip core 1 & core 2 of CPA pep? Thanks in advance!

MAcc is challenging, so not everyone will enjoy it or be able to complete it successfully. SAF wants to make sure that students know that if you go into MAcc, you’ll need to be prepared to work harder than ever before.

The PDF I linked (page 7, with more information throughout the entire program guide) will provide you with information as to how you can still obtain an MAcc degree if you achieved less than 60% in an MAcc-required course. You can read it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8801dx827cm3qtm/2017%20MAcc%20Program%20Information%20Guide.pdf?dl=0.

EDIT: Sorry guys, the information above no longer applies to you. :(

As an AFM student, you always have the option of not doing MAcc and taking the pathways followed by students of other universities. I’m not familiar with those pathways though, so you’ll have to do some research yourself.

[thingsioncehelddear]

Hi Annie, thank you for having such a wonderful blog and always answering us so patiently and with such detail. I understand you are not going to do MAcc. However, recently it seems like there are increasingly more and more people telling me that SAF is in fact discouraging students to do MAcc. According to someone in your year, she said that they even said that in the MAcc info session, is that true? They also failed almost 1/3 of the students for AFM391 this term (avg <60), so we can't do MAcc

I wouldn’t say that SAF is discouraging students from doing MAcc - more so that they’re giving us fair warning that MAcc is not for everyone. And yes, they did really focus on conveying that MAcc is not for everyone during our info session in the Fall. Fewer students have been enrolling in MAcc, but fewer students have also been dropping out of MAcc, because more people are prepared for what they’re getting themselves into.

If you achieve less than 60% in an MAcc-required course, you can still do MAcc! You just need to follow a modified pathway, which restricts the amount of choice you have regarding your MAcc courses. It’s a bit complicated, but you can CLICK HERE for the 2017 MAcc Program Information Guide if you’d like to read up on it in advance (initial information regarding the modified pathway is on Page 7).

EDIT: Sorry guys, the information above no longer applies to you. :(

And geez, I’m really sorry to hear about AFM 391. That must have been brutal. :(

Let me know if you have any more questions? And thank you for the very kind words. :$

[thingsioncehelddear]

Hey Annie, my internet got disconnected after I pressed the "Ask" button so not sure if my question was submitted. My question was do you know anyone who has failed a AFM course and got into Macc? :O I didn't know "3) Both attempts at taking the course are included in your MAcc admission average."...I'm so scared for AFM491...

I don’t personally know anyone currently in MAcc who failed an AFM course, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any, so don’t freak out or anything haha.

Hmm I think my advice to you at this point would be to identify why you weren’t successful in that course. Is it part of a larger pattern where you’ve been struggling in multiple courses? Is it the particular topic? (I know that tax destroys me, for example.) Did you just study in an ineffective way, or didn’t study enough? And of course, sometimes you do everything right, but an illness or personal situation or your mental health prevented you from succeeding - so I’m totally not trying to take on an accusatory tone here.

If you have been doing poorly in multiple courses, I would really encourage you to seek academic advice from SAF.

If it’s the topic that causes you trouble, take a look at future course requirements to determine how many courses of that nature you have left. If there are more, I would consider tutoring in that topic, and working with the professors teaching those courses to develop a study plan that will help you learn the material.

AFM 491 isn’t any worse than tax, so don’t be too scared (unless tax scares you too haha). Just be prepared to work really hard, and work hard at understanding your accounting courses right now!

Please feel free to update me on your situation, or let me know if there’s anything else I can help with! I’m rooting for ya. :)

[thingsioncehelddear]

Hi Annie, I heard that class of 2017 has finished their undergraduate studies, so congrats!!! :D Just wondering, if you are going to Master of Accounting, can you share your experience from applying to Macc to acceptance in terms of application and acceptance dates...THANKS for being an amazing upper year!!! :)

Thank youuuuu! :D

I am not doing the MAcc (posted an update just now! :D), but I did apply and was accepted, so sure I can tell you about it!

In September of 4B, there will be an MAcc Information Session and a Course Selection Information Session that you can attend. Detailed information about CPA pathways and required courses will be relayed, and you will be able to hear MAcc profs talk about their own courses - what you’ll be learning, and how you’ll be graded.

You apply in October. If your grades at the beginning of 4B meet the admission requirements, you’ll receive a Conditional Acceptance in November (and you’ll likely receive your schedule in early December). If not, you’ll receive your acceptance at the end of December if, taking 4B into consideration, you meet the requirements.

Let me know if there’s anything else I can tell you!

[thingsioncehelddear]

Does applying to Macc start in your 4B term? Is 4B also a term for students to look for full-time job? What are your plans after your 4B term in AFM. Thanks for being an amazing upper-year!

Hey! Yes, you apply to MAcc in your 4B term.

Due to co-op, many 4B students already have a job lined up for after graduation, but those who do not start looking in 4B.

I’ve applied for MAcc (yes, even though I’m pursuing a career in Human Resources :P), so as long as I’m accepted, I’ll be starting MAcc after my 4B term!