#The Russo's way of stringing things along is to just throw tesseract in there and hope it works

[amethyst2900]

madlockian replied to your post: The MCU opened like 20 plot holes just from the...

(½) I think in terms of Thor 1 and Avengers 1 while the danger consisted of magical beings or objects, they were mostly physical threats and seeing as they solely protect the realm from mystical, otherwordly and other dimensional…ly threats it was a “pick your fight” kind of thing. They could jump in and interfere but that would immediately expose them to people like S.H.I.E.L.D and the Avengers. That would mean that they would be on their asses constantly (2/2) Much like how they were on the Avengers asses in Civil War with the Sokovia accords. They cannot risk "normal people" interfering with their important work. So I think that they kept an eye on it and figured the Avengers could handle it.

That does make sense, they would want to keep it a secret from everybody, and they probably could tell that Loki stole the Tesseract from S.H.I.E.L.D or something. And they would probably leave physical threats to earth to the Avengers after that. But like everything before those two movies makes no sense? Like the case of Captain Marvel (2019) it makes no sense?? Because they were probably on the Skrull side of the Skrull-Kree war right? So they wouldn’t bat an eye at the Skrulls if they came to earth for a little while unless they wanted to take over earth or something. But Carol? Who they probably thought was a Kree? It makes no sense for them to not try to go after her. And S.H.I.E.L.D wasn’t really a thing back then so they wouldn’t have thought that they would go after them, and Carol was by herself so many times in the movie that it makes no sense for them not to attack her.

[captainevans]

Could you go into more detail re: your last post? I've been seeing so many reactions to what Steve did at the end of the movie and would love to hear your take on it because I'm desperate to hear from someone more level headed (and it seems like you definitely are). I've just seen a lot of people upset with/at Steve/Chris and need some reassurance lol. You can keep this private if you want or just make a separate post. Also hi, nice to meet you :)

I have been thinking about this all day, so I would be more than happy to elaborate for you! It’ll be under the cut.

It appears that the general arguments regarding Steve being out of character and not liking his ending is that he struggled for so long to put his past behind him, to find a place in the future with the family and friends he made, and by sending him back it compromised their future as well as Peggy’s and reduced her to simply a woman who stole Cap’s heart as opposed to this formidable force to be reckoned with and one of the founding members of S.H.I.E.L.D.

I don’t see it that way though. If anything, this is a Steve who failed and saw half of the universe snapped due to circumstances beyond his control and more importantly this is the first time we truly see Steve for the human he is, and not just the soldier out of time.

Two constant threads in Steve’s individual arc has been dealing with one never-ending battle after another and his struggle to acclimate to the times he’s in. I don’t mean in an ‘old man deals with newfangled technology’ sense, but Steve’s few years out of the ice pales in comparison to the seventy plus years it’s been for everyone else. Also keep in mind the era in which Steve comes from, because he deals with things internally or not at all (mostly not at all) and a therapy goer the man is not.

In TFA, pre-serum Steve has a myriad of health problems and is known to get into fights frequently. He’s tried several times to get enlisted; longing for that one chance to do something right, to do something good because he doesn’t like bullies and he doesn’t care where they come from. He meets Peggy and she sees the man he is way before he became Captain America. Keep in mind though that between post Project Rebirth and the crash, more time has passed than people tend to think about. Their feelings for one another have deepened, even if they’re not acted upon, which is why their final conversation over the comms is even more heartbreaking. They had something, they knew they had something, and now it was lost seemingly forever. Who could come back from that? Who honestly would want to?

The Avengers finds him a mere two weeks after the man was defrosted, in which he was learning that almost everyone he knew and loved was dead and that the Tesseract he crashed a plane to try and destroy was found and used by SHIELD to create weapons and had to push that into the back of his mind so he could fight aliens in the Battle of New York.

In TWS, he’s still struggling to find his footing between his past and and present. He visits Peggy and is happy that at least she was able to move on and have a life for herself, but every visit is melancholy and ends the same way - she slips out because of her dementia and he has to relive her finding out that he’s real and in front of her every time. I wouldn’t want to wish that experience on anyone, but do you know what that’s like to deal with a person who has that? To think you’re finally getting somewhere with someone for a moment and then the lucidness wears off and suddenly your heart is ripped out of your chest because you’re back at square one? To do that every single time you see them? Sam asking him what makes him happy breaks my heart every single time because he’s never been given the opportunity to figure that out, and once he learns that Hydra, again going with the whole “I crashed my fucking plane into the ocean and this shit is STILL happening” arc, has been entangled with SHIELD from its infancy, he knows the mission to take it down takes precedence over trying to take the time and figure that out for himself. Now, this movie is the Winter Soldier, and there’s Bucky to cover. At this point, Steve knows he doesn’t have much time with Peggy left when he uncovers the identity of The Winter Soldier. These two pillars are the last remaining ties to his past, which is why he tries so hard to try to joggle Bucky’s programming with not fighting back and the “I’m with you til the end of the line”. Steve knows he’s in there, he just had to get him out. He’s successful, and then that jump-starts the search post TWS leading into Age of Ultron and ending in Civil War.

Age of Ultron..is…well, okay it has more problems than anything else however, at this point it’s been three years since he’s been living in the future, and it would make sense that Peggy is still on his mind in Wanda’s dream sequence for him. He confirms it in Endgame for the first time by saying it aloud, but Peggy was the love of his life. It’s normal to dream about lost loves. He’s a man from that older era though, which is why we only have a stolen moment of him trying to remain stoic because he has to be a leader and appear unaffected for the sake of his team and the mission. I really wish the deleted scene where he comes out of the quintet with his coal to see the image of Captain America with the words “Fascist” above spray-painted on a building wall before he throws the helmet back inside was kept in because it shows SO MUCH without saying anything at all. This is where we see that break between who is he and what his superhero persona is supposed to represent. It’s not Captain America who makes Steve Rogers Steve Rogers, it is Steve Rogers who makes Captain America Captain America. And once again, we find him trying to make the sacrifice play if they aren’t successful and can’t get all Sokovian citizens as well as themselves out in time. Now all while this is happening, Sam is still trying to look for Bucky for Steve.

Which brings us to Civil War. Never has that line between his past and present been more apparent because it’s literally the plot to this movie. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. Bucky is deprogrammed but broken and more importantly to Steve - alive- and he knows that Bucky has that blood on his hands that Hydra used and abused him into spilling and that’s why if he could just get Tony to see that with these accords the powers at be, along with every country who signs, can dangle their help for political gain like they’re puppets on strings just like he was. Do they need to be put in check? Perhaps, but not by people with an agenda. It’s a dangerous game they’d be playing with no winners which is why Steve doesn’t sign them. And during that meeting with all of them discussing this, Steve learns that Peggy dies so his stake in this fight to preserve the last tether to his past increases tenfold. He’s not just fighting for Bucky, Steve is fighting for himself. By the time he’s dropped that shield, we’re shown that Steve has lost faith in his government, he’s lost faith in his friends, and he’s lost faith in himself.

He’s in Infinity War for six minutes and forty five seconds is screen time so there’s not much content wise to go on, but when we see Steve he is clearly not the man he was and you can tell something is broken inside him, but it’s not explored until Endgame.

I’m just going to focus on Steve’s arc in Endgame because while I really liked most of it, Thor and Natasha deserved better than that so here we go. If you have not watched Endgame, don’t go any further.

Between waking up and immediately having to fight post defrosting and uncovering the truth about SHIELD using the Tesseract to make weapons, Hydra being an entangled part of shield, the events of Civil War, and by the time we see him in Infinity War he’s a shell of whatever former self he was trying to grasp at straws with, and it wasn’t until we had this film that we actually see to what extent that was.

Endgame opens three weeks after the snap, in a time where they’re still desperately clinging to hope with trying to find a way to reverse things. Carol saves Tony and Nebula while he’s on the very brink of death in the Benatar, and tensions between the Steve and Tony are at an all time high. They lost. Everyone. They’re the Avengers, how could they lose?

Time jumps five years. Tony is living on a lake and has a young daughter with Pepper, and Steve has now taken over for Sam in leading group therapy meetings. Joe Russo’s character says he went on a date the night before and that his date cried before the salad and he cried after the dessert and there was nothing they could truly talk about because what could you talk about if half of the universe, including people you knew and loved, vanished in an instant and where you’re borderline living in some version of Lord of the Flies? He offers words of comfort, but he and half the people in that session don’t fully believe them. He lost the love of his life in ‘45 and woke up seventy years later and he hasn’t had a single moment of rest to do so. It weighs on him, on all of them. Natasha is at Avengers HQ still trying to find ways to help, and because of the nature of their work and who they are as individuals they can’t truly move on, him especially. But seeing Tony with his daughter I think was a catalyst of sorts for Steve, even if it didn’t fully register for him at first. One of the themes through Age of Ultron was this notion of “home”, and being an Avenger was something they all pretty much had to put first. Tony got his family, he got his home, and for someone who thought that the man who went into the ice seventy years couldn’t have that himself, there came a small burst of a what if. What if he could have that as well? If it happened for Tony…

Seeing Peggy in 1970, seeing his photo on her desk…that did something to him as well. After all those years, he’s still on her mind just seemingly as much as she’s on his. He gets that moment of seeing her again, and that longing was heartbreaking. Just one more look before he had to go back - something just for him because the mission came first, it always comes first, and he didn’t want to screw anything up so he buries it like he does everything else. Steve’s an intelligent little shit though and we’ll come back to that later.

Now here’s where I also need for you to keep in mind the conversation Banner had with the Ancient One in 2012. The Ancient One is hesitant on giving him the Infinity Stone because it will disrupt the pre-determined timeline, but Banner explains that the past is cemented in time and forever exists to allow for a subject to jump through time. Reality is experiential for individuals, meaning a person’s perception of time is linear, regardless of how they jump around the timeline. In layman’s terms, you travel to the past, that past becomes your future and your former present becomes the past which then cant be changed by the new future.

We’ve always known Steve is worthy of wielding Mjolnir so let’s just skip to the ending now shall we?

At the end, Steve goes alone to return the stones to their proper place in time, but also has become well versed in time travel for someone who’s not Banner or Tony. He sees this as a chance to have something that’s been unattainable to him for so long - to live the life Tony wanted for him. To be happy. To not have to fight for once in his life. So he goes to the right place in while in the quantum realm as to not disrupt the main timeline, and that’s when he doesn’t return we see that he’s become an old man finally at peace, handing Captain America’s shield over to Sam, who more than deserves the mantle, not exactly telling him that he got his happy ending with Peggy, choosing to keep it to himself and yet smiling wistfully all the same.

He never changed anything about Peggy’s future either. SHIELD clearly still exists, and do some people honestly think he wouldn’t give her the choice? If he didn’t think there was a strong enough of a chance or had she turned him down someway he would have respected her and returned to the main present timeline. Nothing changed about that, it was just an alternative path. By going back, Peggy’s life without Steve still exists and that Peggy who gets her reunion with Steve now represents a branch timeline.

I get not everyone liked the ending, I do, but to be fair, just because they didn’t like Steve’s ending because it doesn’t fit what they wanted doesn’t mean it wasn’t a fitting end for Steve. He can rest now. Finally.