#also anakin atoning by putting his hands to work and fixing things (literally) is a personal favorite

[bladetoblade]

obviously it would be a strategic nightmare, but i’m just thinking of the universe where the surviving jedi rebuild together in the aftermath of order 66

for the first months, they built temporary shelters and wooden shacks. it’s a new and strange environment so they occupy younglings by taking them for walks through the woods to collect food and explore.

there are no villages and towns nearby, but there are birds and all kinds of 4-legged animals that curiously approach. every now and again, mace has the younglings sit down in the soft grass and be very quiet. gently, he draws the creatures closer with the force so that the children can let them eat berries out of their palms

during clear nights master skywalker points out constellations and stars in the night sky. he tells them what it’s like to break atmosphere and fly. subtly, he plants directions and coordinates to safer planets, hoping it’ll stick

“that’s coruscant,” mace windu whispers, after a little one asks where the old temple is.

they all work during the day to build their new home, their Temple, from the ground up

it doesn’t look like a temple, and the kids very kindly point this out.

“wherever jedi commune with the force and wherever you are, that’s where the temple will be,” padawan dume explains, patting yarkov’s head fondly. he flushes a bit when master windu smiles and nods in approval.

in another time, younglings would watch in awe as jedi masters used the force to pile stone atop stone. now the jedi rebuild with their hands instead.

soon they begin planting a garden outside the Temple’s walls. masters, padawans, younglings kneel side by side along the temple wall

master obi-wan puts his very interesting botanical knowledge to use (for the first time, anakin points out) as he tells the younglings what kinds of flowers and fruits and peppers they’re planting. his hands guiding theirs as they dig up the soil.

dirty hands tug at their masters and their friends robes, soon turning into handfuls of dirt thrown at each other

no one scolds them. this batch of younglings could stand to misbehave more, the adults privately think, as they get dragged into making a bigger mess of their clothes.

of course, with a dozen or so jedi younglings there are lot of antics and dangerous stunts

master obi-wan and master mace have practiced the art of saying no and expressing disapproval, managing it with a mere look. so when a youngling does something they know they weren’t supposed to, the first thing they do is find master anakin. usually he’s behind the Temple, building new chairs for their table or repairing their cranky vaporator and water purifier.

innocent and ignorant of many things, all of them know that he’s the best person to put between them and master obi-wan’s disappointment (which really, is mild at best against them)

his lungs don’t quite cooperate with him the way he wants, but anakin smiles and lets himself be dragged along to explain (to the older masters’ poorly hidden amusement) why exactly the tomatoes have been smushed or to help a padawan retrieve their saber from a tree (which tree it was, no one remembers)

later on some of the clones join them at the Temple. they tease the kids, pat them affectionately on the head, and generally indulge them (not that there’s any lack of that here)

sometimes they take them out and show them how to shoot. there was a long discussion, but ultimately it was agreed that this was a necessary skill for them to have in a galaxy like this. the kids are thrilled to show off trick shots they learned to the masters, who while cringing a bit internally, clap and cheer

(“uncivilized,” obi-wan jokes to anakin quietly, a fond look in his eye.

anakin elbows him, “i’m sure if you practiced you could get just as good as yarkie.” he teases mock sympathetically.

“excuse me? i’ll have you know that i am-“

mace rolls his eyes and some of the kids smother giggles.)

[firelxdykatara]

*sigh* why do people keep comparing r/eylo to zutara and putting them in the same group? Were they not paying attention to the show? Did they not see Zuko's evolution?

Honestly, I really don’t know.

Like, ok, superficially, I can almost kinda get it. Angry boy with a scar on his face and the girl who could kick his ass offering to heal him? Ok, fine. Even aesthetically, red and blue, tol and smol, fine. I can sorta see it. But the instant you dig even a little bit deeper, they just… aren’t the same at all???? Not even remotely????

And, ok, I’ll admit to some measure of bias, because I don’t ship reylo and I don’t like it as a ship, nor do I want it to happen in any way in canon, but like, part of the reason Zutara works so well is that it’s not a hero/villain ship. It’s enemies-to-lovers, for sure, but the vast majority of us ship it because of Zuko’s redemption arc.

Yeah, you’ll see ‘I’ll save you from the pirates’ UST jokes, and a lot of us started shipping it back in book 1, but it was obvious from the beginning that Zuko was going to get redeemed. He may have been a villain, but he was never the villain–he was narratively placed as the secondary protagonist (deuteragonist) of the show from his very first appearance. He was given his own narrative arc that had little to do with the main plotline of Aang’s journey, because while his own journey ran parallel to the gaang, it was separate and distinct because he was on his way to his own redemption even then.

Zuko Alone, in book 2, drove this home even further. You don’t give someone who isn’t the primary protagonist of the show an episode all to themselves (literally none of the gaang shows up for even a second) unless this is a character who’s meant to have just as much narrative significance as the main cast. Zuko was always going to join the gaang, and so much zutara meta and fanfic rests on how amazing and emotionally fulfilling their relationship development was, as friends, and that it would have made so much sense for their friendship to go even further.

Reylo doesn’t have any of that.

First of all, Kylo Ren is not Zuko–not even close. Kylo has far more agency in being dark than Zuko ever did. Ben Solo had loving parents and grew up in a supportive environment. His uncle ultimately made a mistake, sure, but a) we see three versions of that particular story: the sanitized version (luke), the demonized version (kylo), and the truth, and b) kylo already had the knights of ren all ready to go and slaughter a bunch of kids.

He was already dark. You don’t go and murderdeathkill a bunch of kids and people you’d ostensibly been raised with just because you saw your uncle standing over you with a lightsaber he clearly wasn’t going to actually use unless you were already making plans to do just that. You can blame as much of it as you want on Snoke and his influence, but that would be a little like blaming Palpatine for Anakin–yeah, he gets some of the blame for manipulating the situation, but Anakin’s still the one who made the choice to kill a temple full of children and choke out his own wife. Darth Vader may have, in the end, chosen to return to the light, but that doesn’t absolve him of the evils he chose to commit.

Kylo is, tragically, in the same narrative position as Darth Vader was in the original trilogy–and Vader couldn’t even bring himself to kill his son.  But Kylo chose to kill his father. And that, incidentally, is one of the places where Zuko and Kylo are essentially diametrically opposed. Zuko turned on Uncle Iroh, yes, but he didn’t cross a line from which there was no coming back–he didn’t kill him. He, in fact, kept going to see him, trying to figure out why the choice he’d made felt so wrong when it was supposed to be everything he’d always wanted. Meanwhile, Kylo murdered his own father because he was hoping to destroy that last link to his own humanity.

And he succeeded.

Furthermore, Rey is not Katara. I love them both, so much, but they are very different people, and different characters who fulfill different narrative spaces in their own stories. In Rey’s position, Katara would probably have killed Kylo in the throne room when he turned on her after killing Snoke. Or, placing Kylo in Zuko’s place in atla, if he’d killed Hakoda (remembering that Han was the only father figure rey’d ever known)? She would have destroyed him. No fucking mercy

Katara does not forgive easily. It took Zuko not only proving that he was on the side of good (which he did multiple times, one of which he even saved her father), but specifically proving to her that he cared for her and genuinely wanted to help–by helping her gain closure for her mother’s murder. She emotionally connected with Zuko in the crystal catacombs, sure, but when he turned on her she hated him and had no intention of turning back. (Even though, from Zuko’s perspective, it wasn’t a betrayal at all–he’d made no promises, and it was his sister offering him everything he’d ever wanted. As far as he was concerned, the only person he betrayed there was his uncle, which is why it took him so long to realize just why Katara hated him so much. And even then he needed her brother’s help to figure out how to fix it.)

On the other hand, Rey was ready, willing, even eager to believe that Kylo could be returned to the light side–could become Ben again. This after he’d done something utterly unforgiving right in front of her, and tried to kill her multiple times. (Notably, at no point during Zuko and Katara’s antagonistic relationship was Zuko actually trying to kill her. He was trying to capture Aang. The worst thing he did was burn down Suki’s village, and that was largely an accident, because he was trying to get to Aang to capture him–alive.) She wanted to believe there was good in him. Katara couldn’t have cared less, throughout the first two books–and then, when confronted with the fact that Zuko had suffered something to which she could relate, she connected with him… and he turned on her. (From her perspective, she’d just reached out and offered this boy a chance to prove he’d changed… and he threw it in her face. So yeah, she took it incredibly fucking personally.)

Even now, it’s possible that if Kylo comes at Rey with some ‘I’m really light now’ story, she’ll probably want to believe him. But even if Reylo happens (and I’ll stress that I really don’t think it’s going to, and if it does I’ll probably be bitterly disappointed, but what else is new) it won’t even remotely resemble Zutara because they are, at their core, incredibly different relationships. Katara didn’t start warming up to Zuko, after that book 2 betrayal, until after he’d proven himself again and again, and helped her begin to heal from the trauma she’d suffered as a child. Furthermore, Zuko was never that evil to begin with. He was being primed for a redemption arc from the start, and he never even came close to the sort of moral event horizon Kylo pole-vaulted over when he murdered a whole bunch of students in their beds and then killed his own father.

And here’s the thing a lot of these Zuko-lite redemption arcs don’t seem to understand–it’s not a one-size-fits-all storyline. You can’t just slap Zuko’s redemption arc on any old villain, because for a redemption to work, it needs to be tailored specifically to fit the villain in question. And most villains aren’t Zuko–he was a very special kind of ‘secondary protagonist who starts out bad and gets a little bit worse before he gets better and joins the good guys’, which most villains can’t hope to match. If you want to redeem someone who’s canonically done far more atrocious acts, their redemption has to encompass the fact that not only are they getting better, but they are actively atoning for the horrible things they’ve done.

Killian Jones, from Once Upon a Time, had a redemption arc which looked nothing like Zuko’s, because he wasn’t a villain like Zuko. His redemption involved not only coming to realize that he’d been doing bad things for a very long time in search of a vengeance which was, ultimately, not what he really wanted or needed, but also making amends to the people he’d hurt over his very long life (those he still could help, at least). (Interestingly enough, that same show had a great example of a horribly botched redemption, in which we were supposed to take it on faith that the character was Good Now even though she’d never once expressed either remorse for the evil she’d committed [which was a lot more evil than Killian ever had] or a desire to make amends to those she’d wronged. In fact, come the end of the show, she still had a vault full of stolen hearts she’d never so much as made an effort to return, even though many of their owners were, ostensibly, in the same town she’d created through one of her many acts of villainy. It was… kind of strange, to say the least, to see how they could get one villain’s redemption so right and another’s so horribly wrong.)

Anyway, tl;dr: the upshot of this all is, Kylo Ren is not Zuko–he’s not even close–and Rey is not Katara. Their relationships look nothing alike, and even if Kylo is redeemed, it’s not going to look anything like Zuko’s redemption–partly because Zuko was never that bad to begin with and Kylo would have much more for which to atone, partly because their narrative journeys are so very very different–and I have never understood the comparison beyond a very surface-level reading of their character aesthetics.