#also...yeah this is a much more thematically dense post than my usual ones just fyi

[emblazons]

I'm the last anon. I forgot to point something.

Do you think Henry stating that Brenner wasn't a monster but just an ordinary man seeking for special things in other people can make El realize Mike isn't her savior but just an ordinary boy who admire others for what make them different?

Not trying to say Mike and Brenner are the same, but they do have been paralleling/contrasting each other. Mike is a good person and has good intentions, but his insistence in seeing El as superior is not good for her nor to their relationship.

!!! okay I finally got a chance to answer this—and yes, I absolutely think those two ideas are meant to be connected for her (though I'm not sure she's parsed them out yet). Its one of the first thoughts I had watching part ii as a little-deeper than GA way back in July of 2022, so...its not even my ongoing analysis brain that brought it up (though its definitely expanded since then lol). Let me see if I can explain.

forewarning: this is really long and probably the most brutal anti-mlvn post I've ever written. It is not intended to be cruel to Mike in the slightest, but. In order to talk through the narrative, I must address what is going on in El's mind, and tbh...it's not all that pleasant in anyone's direction but Max's & maybe Hopper's at this point.

The entirety of S4, El is repeatedly presented with people attempting to challenge her oversimplified and depressed sense of self and others, given that, in the time since she's lost Hopper, her first home, her friends and her powers, she's been desperately trying (and failing) to sort through her place in the world.

Please note that the depression part is absolutely critical...because it's how Vecna can so easily influence her thinking, both via what she sees in NINA memories and during his monologue to her in Piggyback scenes.

We see her do it with Mike:

We see her do it with Brenner:

And we see her do with with Henry/Vecna:

—and as she goes along learning from each, we watch her come in contact with more nuanced (potential) self-concepts each time.

With Mike, she gets a fellow 14 year old with no framework for powers trying to navigate El's complex existential crisis he's spent several months unaware of and has no equivalent context for—which is why he pulls on her being a "superhero" so much. Its how he understands her, and what has been most obvious to him over the years; she's saved him, saved Will, and saved Hawkins in just the few years he's known her, and that (in his very nerd-oriented mind) is something worth celebrating and being excited about, even in people who don't have superpowers.

For him, El is not a "tool" necessarily...but the oversimple "superhero" side of her certainly overshadows the rest for him. Its why they struggle so hard in a "normal" romantic relationship—interpersonal closeness and emotional intimacy isn't what their bond is built on, though they do care for and want to protect one another.

With Brenner, she gets a more mature (and yet still power-focused) person who is familiar with her powers and past enough to give more nuanced insight, but who is also 1) abusive, manipulative and selfish and 2) has never looked at El, Henry or the other numbers as human beings, but rather tools to accomplish goals. Even so, Brenner is an adult, and therefore understands that El cannot move forward understanding herself so simply because his own actions require complex jumps and justification to make sense to himself—

—and also because, as anyone who has see themselves change over time knows, we do not keep the same oversimple self-concept of ourselves as we age, make mistakes, and grow. Brenner sees the girl with powers, and knows what she's capable of...just like he (and Owens, honestly) knows that she is not truly evil or monstrous despite having great destructive capability. The "monster" in him though is very human-oriented...which is why El so often finds herself associating Mike's insecurities within Brenner's manipulation.

Disclaimer: that last sounded bad for Mike, but: he is literally 14, and not trying to manipulate or abuse El in any way, shape, or form. Mike Wheeler is really just insecure kid who makes mistakes thrust into an extremely unusual situation, trying to do his best with the knowledge he has. Even so...immature and under-informed people often do things that mirror mature people with legitimately cruel intentions—one is just an adult aware & intentional about the tactic, where the other is a boy who isn't.

With Henry/Vecna though, El finds an true equal, but as a foil—the actual "monster" to her "superhero," though we spend the entire season realizing that even Henry cannot be parsed down to something so remedial or one-note as "monster" either.

Henry is someone who is almost exactly like El, down her powers and being abused/manipulated by Brenner—though she's made different choices, which is the radical difference between the two of them (and one I think will be core for her to learn as we move into S5).

While Henry and El are in fact quite identical in many ways, its the choice El made to say "no" to Henry when he asked her to join her + her resistance of his desire to overpower others (which he himself notes)—on top of her desire to protect others' lives and autonomy in a way he does not that makes her good!different, rather than the bad!different Henry is.

Even so...the similarities of experience and struggle they've had at Brenner's hands make what he says resonate with Eleven—because, as we all know, some of the best villains are the ones whose concept has clear mirroring within the protagonist, only a shade off (think Killmonger and Black Panther).

Its pretty clear then, why this long lead up through Mike, Brenner and Henry presenting her with increasingly complex concepts of self & humanity would make her reflect on Mike (+ their relationship).

From the beginning, Mike' finding El and taking her in first fits him (for better or worse) squarely into the "males whose presence in my life has been formative" corner—which is why we get Mike/Hopper, Hopper/Brenner and Mike/Brenner comparisons/parallels throughout course of the show this paragraph deserves a whole post on its own, but I'm trying to stay on track here lmfao.

Its also why this line in particular (and, finally, to your point) serves as a brutal reminder that El and Mike are incompatible—not because Mike himself is doing anything to harm El, but because Mike, like Brenner for her and Henry, 1) focuses on her powers and 2) has no framework for understanding her feeling different the way she wants (and needs) to be understood.

Given that El has already confronted Papa (and left him to die for what he's done to her) and she believes Hopper is already dead—

the only person left (truly guilty or not) in the line of people who 1) were integral to forming El's understanding the world; 2) tried to tell her how she should use her powers; 3) put up resistance to her autonomy; 4) lied to her and 5) could not understand her in her difference...is Mike Wheeler—

—who she already disappointed with, who is entirely unaware any of this shit is happening within her, and who is also being encouraged by an only slightly less unaware (and in love) Will Byers to "be the heart" and lead the party like he would a campaign.

...these are also the circumstances we get this supposedly "romantic monologue" in...and where we see him reference (and remind El) not only the moment he took her in (aka ended up in one of the inadvertent authority positions she's currently rebelling against), but also the fact that he thinks she's a "superhero," (which she doesn't believe about herself after Henry's monologue).

It's no wonder then, why she seemed uncomfortable af with all he said during the entire monologue...or why she ignored him the rest of the season (except, we learn, to say to Mike that Brenner—someone she can't stand, and who she's now spent a solid chunk of this season internally associating him with—was right).

Basically: the fact that a deeply conflicted and depressed El found kinship with a manipulative Henry (while simultaneously feeling rage at Brenner...and Mike by PTSD association) means that the displeasure she feels at Brenner and everything is gonna come out at another figure who has mirrored the things she is rebelling against—her very unaware boyfriend, Mike.

Hopper isn't there to balance as a "positive" adult male perception for her either...which leaves Mike in the wildly unfair position of being the "last man standing" for the parallel sadness & rage El feels about being different, much like Henry.

That is why Vecna saying that Brenner was an "ordinary, mediocre man" now has an immediate association with Mike in El's mind...one that is just another nail in the coffin of their romance, and that she will have to pull out of her perception if they're going to heal even on a friend level from the disaster this season has created in S5.

—I will say that the presence of Max as contrast through all of these moments is critical, as Max is the one person who has asked her who she is and what she wants, as well as who parallels El signs of internal conundrum about how she sees herself (that El overhears when she enters the void). Max is also the one who reminds El of the autonomy and positive human identity that El so wants for herself.

Hopper coming back and reclaiming the spot as a positive (actual) father figure that El has been projecting onto Mike in his absence is critical as well, considering his presence (and knowledge of Mike) will likely temper the brutality El is directs at Mike in her weakest moments of the season too). But...that is a whole other post, and I've already written (another) novel.