#and im constantly checking and rechecking their lore

[ask-the-crimson-king]

[Local lore bitch to add some addendums and context for some of your claims here:

>Perturabo is the 12th Primarch recovered, he was found 9 years after Magnus. (I point this out specifically because I still have brainrot over why the fuck was Magnus on Terra, not in the Crusade, for a whole ass fucking decade when most other Primarchs were given a year, tops.) Pert leaves Terra about a year after he is recovered, and the Emperor calls him his "Hammer". (Taken from Angel Exterminatus) Dorn was the 7th recovered, so there's some credence there. Maybe Emps did go "yo wtf" or maybe he saw a new tool to use.

>Konrad was the 16th Primarch recovered, and most know Leman is the 2nd. However I don't think Leman's executioner job is a "supercop" position any more than a medieval executioner is a "supercop". Leman himself is definitely a cop (Night of the Wolf, baybeeee), but it's not by virtue of being an executioner. Also, I will add that, yes, Konrad would've been used as an executioner. We have canon information on this, as Ingethel tells Lorgar that he is hunted down by both Konrad Curze and Leman Russ for an infraction in one of the many spiraling futures ahead of him during his Pilgrimage.

>Something others may point out as well but I still want to touch on it: In The First Heretic, following the destruction of Monarchia, Kor Phaeron and Erebus speak with Lorgar and one of the subjects is what the purpose of each of the Primarchs are. This is also were some fan-theories on what the Primarchs were made for comes from, as KP states that they are all reflections of the Emperor. Some examples given:

(Image ID will be posted under the cut)

I included a small prelude to the scene because I feel like it's interesting for KP to remark that Lorgar "never commit atrocities while wearing a smile" like his other brothers. The following passage goes on to have Lorgar state that he hates being a warrior, and further on in the novel when he talks with Magnus at Vharadesh, Magnus then suggests that Lorgar thus has no right to lead a Legion.

It's something interesting to throw into the "what were the purposes of each Primarch" thing, though this also could be chalked up to "Chaos interferance" since, once more according to Ingethel during the Pilgrimage, Lorgar apparently was the one who was held within the Warp's tides the longest out of all his brothers.

(Magnus apparently being a close second, and there's heavy references that Magnus seemed to be the first choice for Undivided before Tzeentch claimed him in full, which is also interesting but is speculation for another day)

>Angron's "empath" claims come from Betrayer afaik, people can correct me here. There is a scene towards the end of the book where Angron walks among a boneyard of his old kinsman who he was supposed to fight and die with at the very end, and he reminisces about each and every one of them. There is genuine compassion and emotion and hurt there. That and the "Perfect Son" speech he says to Guilliman has some good shit in there. Shows a bit of what Angron could be.

>I also wanted to add as a last-minute thing that the WB were also said to be more genetically inclined to love and trust their primarch than any other Legion in canon, though this could just be bs. Can't be entirely sure.

TL;DR - this was a good read and nice speculative piece. Just wanted to add some food for thought/things to help strengthen claims because this is an interesting subject within 40k lore to think about and it's always cool to see new takes on it.

Image IDs for the passages used above below the cut:

Image ID: Three screenshots taken from the novel The First Heretic. They read:

LORGAR TURNED TO meet Kor Phaeron’s eyes.

‘That morning. As I knelt before the Emperor, with the home world’s holy caste chanting… With the red rock domes of Vharadesh made amber by the rising dawn. Did you see as I saw?’

Kor Phaeron looked away. ‘You will not like the answer, Lorgar.’

‘I have liked nothing of late, yet I still wish to know.’ He laughed suddenly, softly. ‘Speak the truth, even if your voice shakes.’

‘I saw a god in golden armour,’ Kor Phaeron said. ‘The very image of you, but aged in ways I couldn’t grasp. I never saw the figure as a benevolent one. His psychic presence pained my eyes, and he smelled of bloodshed, domination, and the many worlds already burned to ash in his wake. Even then, I feared we’d waged six years of war in error, butchering a true faith to replace it with a false one. In his eyes – eyes so like yours – I saw the promise of avarice, the hunger of greed. Everyone else saw nothing but hope. Even you… So I thought, perhaps, I had seen wrong. I trusted your heart, Lorgar. Not my own.’

Lorgar nodded, his contemplative eyes turning away again. Erebus listened in silence, for rare were the moments that any Word Bearer received insight into the primarch’s life before the Legion.

‘Of all the Emperor’s sons,’ Kor Phaeron said, ‘you are the one that most resembles your father in face and form. But you could never commit acts of cruelty and destruction while wearing a smile. The others, your brothers, can do this. They take after the Emperor in that way, where you do not.’

Lorgar lowered his gaze.

‘Even Magnus?’ he asked.

‘EVEN MAGNUS.’ KOR Phaeron seemed reluctant to admit it. His features remained tense. ‘Though I respect him greatly, there is a deep cruelty, born of impatience, threaded through his core. I saw it in his face that day, and each meeting since.’

Lorgar looked down at his hands, ash-stained with crescent moons of blood beneath the fingernails.

‘We are all our father’s sons,’ he said.

‘You are all facets of the Emperor,’ Kor Phaeron amended. ‘You are aspects pulled from a genetic primer. The Lion is your father’s rationality – his analytical skill – unburdened by conscience. Magnus is his psychic potential and eager mind, unrestrained by patience. Russ is his ferocity, untempered by reason. Even Horus…’

‘Go on,’ Lorgar said, looking up now. ‘What of Horus?’

‘The Emperor’s ambition, unshaped by humility. Think of all the worlds where our Legion waged war alongside the Luna Wolves. You’ve seen it as well as I have. Horus hides his arrogance, but it is there – a layer beneath his skin, a shroud around his soul. Pride beats through his body like blood.’

‘And Guilliman?’ Lorgar let his hands rest on his knees again. A smile inched across his features.

‘Guilliman.’ Kor Phaeron’s narrow lips moulded into a grimace, opposing his primarch’s smirk. ‘Guilliman is your father’s echo, heart and soul. If all else went wrong, he would be heir to the empire. Horus is the brightest star and you carry your father’s face, but Guilliman’s heart and soul are cast in the Emperor’s image.’

Lorgar nodded, still smiling to see his advisor’s bitterness. ‘My Macraggian brother is as easy to read as an open book,’ he said. ‘But what of me, Kor Phaeron? Surely I bear more than my father’s features. What aspect of the Imperial avatar have I inherited?’

‘Sire?’ interrupted Erebus. ‘If I may?’

Lorgar granted permission with a tilt of his head. Ever the statesman, Erebus needed no time to compose himself, or his answer.

‘You embody the Emperor’s hope. You are his belief in a greater way of life, and his desire to raise humanity to achieve its greatest potential. You devote yourself to these ends, forever selfless, utterly faithful, striving for the betterment of all.’

Amusement gleamed in the primarch’s eyes – eyes so like the Emperor’s own.

‘Poetic, but indulgent, Erebus. What of my failings? If I am not proud like Horus Lupercal, nor impatient like Magnus the Red… What will history say of Lorgar Aurelian?’

Erebus’s solemn facade cracked. A moment of doubt flashed across his features, and he glanced to Kor Phaeron. The gesture drew a whispered chuckle from their primarch.

‘You are both conspirators,’ he laughed, the sound soft. ‘Do not fear my wrath. I am enjoying this game. It is enlightening. So enlighten me, this last time.’

‘Sire,’ Kor Phaeron began, but Lorgar silenced him, reaching to touch his foster father’s hand as it rested upon his shoulder.

‘No. You know better than that, Kor. I am not “sire”. Never to you.’

‘History will say that if the Seventeenth Primarch had one weakness, it was his faith in others. His selfless devotion and unbreakable loyalty caused him grief beyond the capacity of a mortal heart to contain. He trusted too easily, and too deeply.’

Thoughts on the Emperor's original plans and intended roles for the Primarchs?

are they still purely speculation based on bits and bobs from canon, or does anything go and detail specifically what they were further than what we already know? (it being “planned the unification of humanity through conquest of the stars” and “the primarchs were to be his generals”, with some added bits about how each primarch might’ve been influenced a little more one way or another, regardless of how exactly it manifested, and some very secondhand detail about gilded prisons in the palace of terra)

b/c my knowledge about the emperor’s original plans for his sons is very very secondhand and a lot of it is born from fanon/fan speculation, and while i can talk for hours about fanon takes on the emperor’s plans that i’ve seen, i feel like it wouldn’t be right to at least try and separate speculation from statement