#and then d&d hated sansa so they didn't let anyone defend her rights

[thewindsofwolves]

Jon Snow & Sansa Stark Book Parallels & Mentions 41/∞ : Jon refuses to steal Sansa’s birthright 

"How can I lose men I do not have? I had hoped to bestow Winterfell on a northman, you may recall. A son of Eddard Stark. He threw my offer in my face." Stannis Baratheon with a grievance was like a mastiff with a bone; he gnawed it down to splinters. "By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa." "Lady Lannister, you mean? Are you so eager to see the Imp perched on your father's seat? I promise you, that will not happen whilst I live, Lord Snow."  A Dance With Dragons, Jon I

[stormbornwithblackfyre]

My Game of Thrones S8 Rant.

At this point we have two episodes left in the entire Series of Game of Thrones and to be completely honest it's been underwhelming, disappointing, and rushed, which now that the honeymoon period of having my almost 2 year wait end i can clearly see.

The writing is the main issue I have with all of this. It all comes back to the writing. Too many times gor too many occasions have I asked "why?" It just feel like too many things don't make sense and too many things were done to be overtly dramatic and shocking, instead of leaning on the STORY and NARRATIVES which we as a fandom has been salivating over for the entire series.

Let's start with "The North" and their whole Saga and the Dilemma with The Night King, White Walkers, and AotD. An evil that was shown do us from the very first episode, very first scene if i am not mistaken. An ancient and evil magic, that the living will have to deal with, that the living will have to overcome or become just more members if the AotD. THAT was the driving force of S7 basically. The reason Jon and Dany meet? Dragonglass mountain under Dragonstone. Dragonglass? Oh, just ine of the 3 ways you can kill members of the AotD. The reason every main charachter besides a certain red head *Insert word here cause I'm trying my bet to not name call* showed up for a summit in the Dragonpit IN KING'S LANDING OF ALL PLACES? Oh, just to show Cersei a wight in an attempt to convince her to help fight which was an idiotic plan in it's own right. Bottomline is the Night King and his Army was a driving force and tbh i appreciate focussing one half if the last season on him and the other on Cersei. Issue is Cersei conventionally should have been hit with a "Fire Style Fireball Jutsu"

Off rip cause that was the easiest and SMARTEST MOVE. But i digress this is avout S8. So i have no conv eptyal plab with the amount of time in episodes gi en hi the threat north but the dialogue and context are what begin my frustrations.

Everything feels rushed immediately, as evidenced by Bran

Dropping the bomb of the wall falling and Viscerion being controlled by the NK. Now the pace quickens and thats cool but it gets jumbled and stats jumbled. Which makes the North and their resistance to Jon bending the knee so weird....or weirder than it already is. Yes you want independence. Yes you want to be held out of wars. Yes want to be isolated but.......THE WHITE WALKERS ARE COMING FOR YOU FIRST AND JON WAS YOUR KING. HE LEFT WITH NOTHING BUT DA(D)VOS AND A FEW GOOD MEN AND RETURNED WITH TWO ARMIES, TWO DRAGONS, AND WARS SUPPLY OF DRAGON GLASS AND A GODSDAMN QUEEN.....Why in gods name are any of them so cold and hesitant to people helping thwm when they didn't have to? Or at the very least why thorough the very end of that war does it last?

Which brings me to a certain Red head. Sansa Stark has cause way more friction and problems than necessary this season amd it's so ridiculous and petty and stupid that legitimately gwt upset thinking about it. Upset about Jon not telling you he was going to bend the knee? Fair point. Ask him why and how he bent the knee maybe hmm? Want to stand your ground and show Dany you are a Wolf of Winterfell amd wont be taken down without a fight? I respect the chutzpah but Dany is here to save the North and literally gave you the warmest of hellos along with layer on telling you tje obvious that she loves your brother after you state the obvious that he loves her too. Maybe sit down and discuss the fate Winterfell and the North after the war is won before the war begins hmm? Mad Two armies, Two Dragons, and A Queens entourage now must be housed? THEN DIE ON YOUR GODSDAMN OWN AND JOIN THE ARMY OF THE GODSDAMN DEAD......Sansa and her pettiness and nothing. NOTHING...of use to the season until she breaks a swear to her own brother. Now we all know biologically they are cousins but They grew up Brother and Sister tho not the beat relationship. She swore to him i front of Their other Brother and Sister in the Godswood no less that she wouldn't tell a soul.......and then goes and Tells Tyrion. Why? Please. Anyone. Anyone please tell me why. I have zero clue. Break an oath to the man who was a brother to you? Why? You don't want Daenerys, the woman who saved your entire country from Death's icy grip, as tge Seven Kingdom's queen? Why? None of it makes sense. None. And for those who dare say she's "Playing the Game" No she isn't Triple H amd no it's not time to play the game it's time to think rationally.

Next up is the choices made by the writers that just rubbed me the wrong way and shot down my faith in the show. First and foremost Sam and the Tarly reveal. Absolute ridiculousness. Randyll Tarly, Sam's father, basically said to Sam: You aren't what a real man is, you aren't what a Lord should be, you are garbage. Go to the Wall or I'll take you out back and end you myself.

Now, person who may or may not read this, I don't know about you but i would tap dance on the grave of my father if he said and did to me what Randyll did to Sam. Period. End of discussion. On to Dickon *Insert snicker here* Tarly. I would have less hate for him but still no love. Dickon was now heir. Dickon was now going to get all the land and wealth and possesions and titles that nelonged to Sam simply do to patriarchy and age. (which is another discussion but we all know is how GOT is governed) So I have no clue why sam is boo hooing about either of the two. Now here's the kicker. Randyll Tarly....along with Dickon Tarly...COMMITED TREASON. TREASON AGAINST THE HOUSE THEY WERE SWORN TO FOR GENERATIONS. They also HAD. A. CHOICE. Death or Bend the knee. They chose death. End of story. Sam being a little shook? Understandable. Full fledged sobs? Stop watching Lifetime movies D & D.

That leads to Sam telling Jon, R+L=J with spite and anger which in all honesty is bullshit and Sam is a bullshit friend for it. You can't tell your supposed best friend his life was a lie n an attempt to get back at someone who honestly did you no wrong. Just bad decisions all around and feels lazy on top of it all.

Then comes the shock and awe that really just.....*Deep sigh* takes away from it all. No issue with Arya saving us. Being the hero that kills the NK. Being the Princess who was promised. But wait.......It was shock value? This was a decision made 7 years into this show? Not off rip? Jon and the NK stare downs were.....just stare downs? While all along we learn nada of the NK? Shock value is a no go most times and this is why. No substance. No merrit. Ep 4 references Arya as the hero....maybe 3 times in small passing. It just felt l like it didn't matter. More shock that was there dor shocks sake was Rhaegal dying. How did Dany not see them? Why did Dany not see them? HOW WAS I THE ONLY ONE PRESENT THINKING TO MYSELF THEY'LL BE AMBUSHED? Tyrion too drunk? Jon to tired with having to Defend Dany against Sansa because Sansa on that bullshit? Varys all of a sudden cant get information? Like how was THAT not foreseen and how wans every boltshot at Rhaegal a guranteed hit? The most shock value of all was Missandei, former slave and a POC being re chained and then killed in a foreign land by a foreign person(who's Caucasian as you guessed) for nothing. It was a heart stabber indeed and makes you want to see Dany destroy Cersei and Grewworm sestroy the Mountain but unnecessary.

All in all I'm real hurt. Real hurt. Totally prepared to wipe S8 from my mind and have GOT with S7. If you read any of this, welcome to my ted talk, sorry for rambling haha.

[thousandeyesand-one]

The Alliance of Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen

I was re-reading ADWD recently & I came across something that prompted this meta..I don't know if this has been done before it probably has been but since the S07E07 script has been released I really wanted to address the politicality of everything this season. This is gonna be a thread!

S07E01- DRAGONSTONE

There isn't much jonerys build up as such in this episode instead both Jon and daenerys's individual storylines are set up. Jon organizes Northern defence which is literally his entire motive this season to strengthen & weaponise the Northern army against the coming Storm. Daenerys reaches Westeros, dragonstone more accurately. Her storyline is set up as a new force in the game here to retake the iron throne & unite Westeros under her rule.

S07E02-STORMBORN

•This episode is where the collision course of these long lost targ babes was set up & no am not talking about tyrion's or sam's raven. I am talking about Olenna Tyrell. During the council meeting of daenerys & all her allies they discuss their battle plans after which Olenna advices dany. I may be wrong but olenna's advice sounds very similar to quaithe's prophecy/advice. The show didn't really adhere to dany's one too many prophecies in the books. Her stay in Qarth was much more prophetic than the show bothered to show including quaithe. She was in the show but not nearly as highlighted as the books treat her to be. Here are the quotes..

".. peace never lasts my dear. Will you take a bit of advice from an old woman?" *dany nods* "He's a clever man, your hand, I've known a great many clever men I've outlived them all. You know why? I ignored them the Lords of Westeros are sheep, are you a sheep? No. You're a Dragon. Be a Dragon."

                                                         -Olenna Tyrell S07E02

"Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and Griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal." "Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are." "The blood of the dragon"

                                                                  -Quaithe (ADWD)

•So like many other character amalgamations or character moments amalgamations that the show has done over 6 seasons before, Olenna served quaithe's purpose in S07. Because her words set daenerys's behavior & mindset for the entire length of the season. Olenna's/Quaithe's words are completely in contrast to what Mel said earlier in that episode.. " D: .. and you believe this prophecy refers to me?M: Prophecies are dangerous things I believe you have a role to play as does another.. the King in the North Jon Snow." "Summon Jon Snow let him stand before you & tell you the things that have happened to him.. the things that he has seen with his own eyes" Mel unlike Olenna or quaithe asked daenerys to stand equal to someone. To consider this Jon Snow guy & his story as both of them have a role to play in the Long Night. Daenerys soon turns this mel's prophetic orchestrated alliance into political one by commanding to send a raven to ask Jon Snow to Bend the Knee.

When they are discussing about making this invitation a political one this ☝️is how Mel reacts she doesn't approve of this but she doesn't say anything coz she learned from her mistakes. "My time whispering in the ear's of Kings has come to an end.. " She let this alliance that she set up take a shape of its own without interfering as to how or what! 

•Jon on the other hand ever since he saw the Night King at Hardhome his mind has been hell bent on the Great War. He was barely ever interested in the politics of the Seven kingdoms so now is no different time that he is using his position as King in the North to ultimately fulfill his main motive of securing the North against the AotD. Although Tyrion's raven arrived at Winterfell it spoke nothing of Mel but it was a very political invite. It's hard to say whether mention of Mel's recommendation would've made Jon & Ser Davos trust this message right away or negate it, but tyrion doesn't speak of it. Like a true shadowbinder Mel worked from the shadows & did what she wanted to do bringing Ice & Fire together! Jon knew this was political but he didn't approach this in a political way, sansa did, not Jon. Sansa talks about this being a potential trap about how North is one of the Seven kingdoms that daenerys wants to claim but Jon wants fire & dragonglass over anything else, both of which is exclusively available only with Daenerys. "We need this Dragonglass my Lord's we know dragonglass can destroy both white walkers & it's army, we need to mine it & turn it into weapons. But more importantly we need allies.. Night king's army grows by the day. We can't defeat them on our own we don't have the numbers. Daenerys has her own army & she has Dragon fire I need to try & persuade her to fight with us." This was never political for Jon he always ever had one goal which was to overcome the AotD either by hook or by crook. He never meant to be King in the North, even though North is truly been his home, he fought for Winterfell because he had to unite North against the dead. He is using his position as King in the North to see this mission through. Little finger tried to get all schemy & game of thronesy with Jon Snow in the crypts & Jon choked the political Mary out of his windpipe. He left the politics & the Kingdom to sansa & went to dragonstone to attain dragonglass & possible military help against the AotD.

S07E03- THE QUEEN'S JUSTICE

•Before the monumental meeting of Jon & Daenerys we are given a brief personal moment between Jon & Tyrion weight of which comes from their time together travelling to the wall before there was any conflict between the Starks & Lannisters. Indirectly daenerys's command by missandei brings the political in that moment by asking jon & ser davos to give up their weapons. On their way to the castle on the bridge/walkway the conversation Jon & Tyrion have.. "J: My bannermen think am a Fool for coming here.. T: of'course they do, if I was your hand I would've       advised against it ... General rule of thumb Stark men   don't fare well when they travel South. J: True. But am not a Stark." He knows he is not a stark by right just like he knows he isn't KitN by right but by public proclamation. He isn't here to fight for that but for what he has always fought for. The Great War. Then after entering the throne room the conversation between daenerys & Jon also had some picks I wanted to get to.. ▪Video Daenerys is applying Olenna/quaithe's words to use & remembering who she is & that the westerosi lords are sheep & to be a Dragon against the sheep. Similarly Jon isn't going to give up North that easily sure he isn't here to defend his title but the Kingdom trusted him to lead them he can't that easily surrender to a Targaryen that clearly all the Northern Lords hate.    ▪Video Jon tried getting political with daenerys by bringing up the mad king & all but daenerys instead reminded him of himself & shut him up. He dropped the political past vs past act & stuck to the present & did what he came here for to get her help. But daenerys is trying so hard to sticking up to being a Dragon remembering who she is that she forgot Mel's advice to take Jon Snow's help but rather remembering olenna/quaithe's words. Jon makes it very clear that he is not her enemy but daenerys is just not convinced & is still sticking to her Dragon-ness, not giving up on what she wants. "The army of the dead is real. The Night King is real I've seen them"

Daenerys is reminded here☝️ of what Mel says to let Jon Snow tell her what he has seen. She still continues to live by Olenna's/quaithe's words to not trust anyone & treat the Lords of Westeros as sheeps & to be a Dragon so daenerys ends up giving that big ass speech of how she was born to rule the 7K & Jon still doesn't care about either his rule or her conquest sticking up for the only thing that is of utmost importance to him.. ▪Video     Then finally Ser Davos gave the Jon Snow speech because c'mon like Jonny boi just can't with words. Specially coz he tried getting close to daenerys & was stopped by the dothraki instead Daenerys walked closer to him to show her strength which along with her speech definitely intimidated Jon. No matter how much people don't like to face it Jon was attracted to daenerys in the very first meet & Daenerys well she was being cocky at first but At the end she did realized that she found Jon Snow interesting. At this point Jon tried telling dany what he's seen, just as Mel asked, which nobody believed. Ser Davos was about to say what happened to him, his rebirth, just as Mel was hoping, which jon stopped him from divulging because if they didn't believe in the AotD then there is no way they'll believe in something that plays with the absolute concept of Life & Death. He didn't want to come across as a northern nutcase. Upon being forced by tyrion to kneel he at last unleashes his true political stance on daenerys. ▪Video 

The first Jon & Daenerys meet was less Jon vs daenerys & more Melisandre vs Olenna/Quaithe advice. Dany is just as confused between those advices as Jon is eternally confused with every situation that's why he asks "am I your Prisoner?" You guys this he doesn't get diplomacy this dude has no political bone in his structure!

•Next it's the Tyrion-Jon conversation on the cliff where tyrion confirms to Jon he isn't a prisoner & that he should try & make this work because there is still a chance. Jon respects tyrion, tyrion is the person who started Jon Snow the boy on the journey to become Jon Snow the man that he has become. Jon tells him what everyone told him to expect of the mad King's Daughter but tyrion instead tells him to form his own opinion about her & gives his own learned opinion to him, Jon values it just as he valued tyrion's opinion at castle black.  Same way tyrion persuades daenerys to make this work & that there still a chance to forge an Alliance. Daenerys trusts tyrion that is why she chose him to be her hand his opinion matters to her as of now..      Daenerys sticks with remembering who she is but also can't seem to forget Mel's advice about listening to Jon Snow.

•Then next is the first meeting of Jon & Daenerys that really introduced Jon to daenerys & Daenerys to Jon previously the Queen met the King & King vice versa. Daenerys is reminded of Mel's advice again about listening to Jon Snow, she heard Jon Snow but didn't really believe him. That's why she turns back to look at him deliberating him on a whole. Battling Olenna/quaithe's advice vs Mel's. She finds jon genuine more genuine than anyone she's ever met but that she has this inner battle in her head regarding trust.

S07E04- THE SPOILS OF WAR

•In this episode there was the beloved Cave of sexual tension scene. Where Jon gives more proof to daenerys that the army of the dead is real. Daenerys completely heeds Mel's advice of listening to Jon like REALLY LISTENING to Jon instead of like prior she just heard him. All the carvings proved he knows what he is talking about & it's the truth. Not to mention they also realize they are attracted to each other.  Just as they leave the cave Daenerys learns all her allies have been decimated & the unsullied have been lead astray into a possible trap. Now she realizes that she has been wrong, neither was olenna's/quaithe's advice wrong nor was Mel's advice wrong. Both advices were correct she placed them on the wrong people she should've ignored tyrion not Jon. Finally just to check whether this time round she is right or not she immediately puts jon on the spot to advice her neglecting tyrion.

"I never thought dragons would exist again. No one did. The people who follow you know that you made something impossible happen maybe that helps them believe you can make other impossible things happen. Build a World different from the shit one they've always known. But if you use them to melt castles & burn cities, your no different, you're just more of the same." 

Jon's honest advice makes it clear to her that he is trustworthy as in he is not a clever Lord or anything like tyrion. Just an honest dude who knows what he's doing & stays true to it. Properly placing quaithe's words "Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and Griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."   "Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are."    "The blood of the dragon"         This advice this prophecy doesn't speak or relate to Jon in anyways. Because dany can trust Jon. Finally figuring every thing out for good & truly remembering who she is & ignoring any of tyrion's advices she mounts her dragon & goes to war. And you know when you wake the dragon .....

•Jon on the other hand didn't have a prophecy or anything to understand daenerys but he had missandei who he talked to about daenerys. Prior to which Ser Davos told him that almost everyone can tell Jon is attracted to Daenerys. He knows that. It  might even have intensified as he saw his younger, naive self in daenerys. His self who said the same words to Mance that daenerys says to him. Jon doesn't deny his feelings just addresses it.. Jon then realizes daenerys is trustworthy & also realizes her conquest isn't just a power hungry quest for dominance she truly wants to do good in this shit world.

S07E05- EASTWATCH

•Episode begins with Daenerys talking to the leftover Lannister soldiers & trying to change their allegiance. Of'course the infamous Tarly's burning scene which in actuality was daenerys ignoring tyrion's advice & being the blood of dragon, remembering it & reminding everyone at the same time. She wasn't being or becoming mad she was staying true to being a Targaryen. Not Mad. Just being a true Targaryen Queen in Westeros with the blood of dragon & not the Queen that tyrion wanted her to be. And the Tarly's had a long time Karma coming for them. Instead of blaming it on karma most people blame it on daenerys. IGNORANCE 

•Then Jon Snow is waiting for daenerys targaryen on the cliff & we get a Jon-Drogon moment. Which by every standard more than confirms to us the audience that Jon is a Targaryen. But unlike us daenerys doesn't know about S06E10 ToJ revelation  so what's in this for her? Except for who would ever dare to love a Dragon there's actually a bit of quaithe's advice.   "Remember who you are Daenerys. The Dragons know. Do you?"

"It makes the moment entirely between Jon & the Dragon" -Dan Weiss, Game Revealed Ep 5: Fire and Bloodlines.

So in this moment the dragons knew. Book dany will probably smell something rightaway but show dany doesn't yet know about Jon's bloodline or she doesnt have this ☝️ part of quaithe's advice/prophecy. When the jon-drogon moment ends another moment between Jon & daenerys begins.

After understanding how olenna's/quaithe's advice fits & where it fits exactly daenerys starts looking into Mel's advice to look into Jon Snow. She is already attracted to him & finds him interesting that for the first time she brings up the mystic side of things that she was ignoring talking about something she found worth pondering. Same with Jon once he found what daenerys actually is he started taking interest in her conquest for the first time initiating a political discussion. On top of which their attraction to each other is also increasing by the minute as they learn more about each other. Also arrival of Jorah & Daenerys's unusual connection with him gave Jon the heebie jeebies.

•Then there is the council meeting with Jon & Daenerys as unofficial allies discussing their next move in an understanding. Tyrion proposes the plan to capture a wight.       •Considering that the running theme this season has been trust for both Jon & Daenerys. This scene is the starting of their romance in a much more deeper way. Daenerys has struggled with trusting people specially this season & it was evident to Jon when he first met her she obviously didn't trust him. When he saw her lash out on tyrion he knew she doesn't trust him anymore than she trusts Jon but when she met jorah it was clear to him looking at her vulnerable side come out with jorah that she trusts him. But at that point jon is deeply attracted to dany & he is aware that he doesn't have the connection with daenerys that jorah does due to a lot of shared history. So this scene was basically Jon asking daenerys to start that connection with him, compared to jorah he is a stranger for daenerys, he asks her to trust him because it's their best chance at a relationship. Jon taught daenerys the very concept of achieving that together he was talking about in the caves, which daenerys was confused about. And then beyond considering any prophecies or advices for the first time she trusts Jon. Because he first put his trust in her.

•Then the glorious see off scene between jon & daenerys before jorah silently slips away from daenerys upon seeing Jon walk upto her. Upon seeing dany embracing jorah & he yet again asks daenerys whether there is trust between them or not. Bringing up her conquest he asks her about his position in her life & she answers him not quite giving him what he wants to hear. She doesn't declare her trust for him but actually is playful about it. Unsure whether either of them have that right on each other to make either of them divulge any more info in uncertainty they depart from each other. The reason why Jon doesn't turn around, because as of now he isn't in Love with daenerys but rather he is in the process of getting there, anyone who has fallen in Love atleast once in their life knows there is a time after attraction & before love where ego's & uncertainty's has to be crushed. Jon doesn't wanna look like a pussy. Jorah on the other hand has been in love with dany for a long time he doesn't care about looking like a pussy he knows dany knows he is a p.. So he turns around.

CONTINUED..