#and to be clear this isn't saying that other aspecs asking for rep or asking for recognition is a bad thing that was never the issue

[cosmicredcadet]

As another non-split aroace, you're so correct for saying that we're treated as the punching bags of both aro and ace communities. Like if y'all can accept and support straight aros and aces but are hostile towards aroaces, you're just aphobic. Yes even if you're aro/ace yourself. Aro spaces nowadays literally have the same attitude towards aroaces that exclusionists used to have towards asexuals, that we're weird freaks bringing purity culture into their "safe" communities just by existing and therefore need to be pushed out. And ace spaces still act like we're the bad guys and need to be pushed out of their "safe" communities because we can't romantically love other people, which makes us heartless monsters apparently. It's just exhausting. I've never seen aroaces being so hostile towards non-ace aros and non-aro aces, we're always trying to uplift their voices and bring awareness to their issues. But the moment we try to talk about our own issues in aromantic or asexual spaces we're told to shut up and let them speak over us because we somehow have it better than them. Not to mention the pressure to split your experiences into aro vs ace and prioritise one part of your identity over the other if you want to be taken seriously in those spaces. Like sorry but for some of us our aroaceness is interwined not split. But we're still aros and aces, still a part of your community. Stop trying to push us out of our own communities on the basis of aphobic stereotypes.

Honestly I've been kinda biting my tongue on it for a while because I understand why Aro and Ace ppl have been trying to separate the communities. it can be frustrating to constantly be paired with an identity that you don't relate to - but i feel like so many ppl have taken it way to far. They've taken the relatively understandable stance of "Aromantic and Asexual are not the same identity" and pushed it to the extreme of "Aro and Ace are so completely different they have nothing in common and NO overlap" and the worst part is i don't think anyone has particularly noticed.

Idk I was most active in the aro and ace communities when we still kinda shared communities. the idea that aro and ace were separate was still a thing (hell, aroaces were the ones helping to push that distinction. we wanted people to recognize our aro identities too, yknow.) but we recognized the overlap and similarities and supported each other... now it just feels like im seeing post after post reminding people not every aro or ace person is aroace and that people shouldt tag aro posts as ace and vice versa and "no ace people cant relate to aro experiences" "no aro people cant relate to ace experiences" because "They are so different they are completely not the same and don't have any overlapping problems at all" and as an aroace it sucks!

it sucks feeling forgotten in my own communities.

It's almost feeling like they are blaming us for there being this idea that people are are Ace must also be aro and people who are aro must also be ace. Like they know they cant get mad at the allos so they get mad at aroaces and act like we are the reason allos think this way. It's like aroaceness is only brought up to talk about how "Not everyone is aroace" or "aroace characters are so much more prevalent in media (Proceeds to only talk about ace characters)" or how aroace ppl must have an identity that means more to them - how their aro or ace identity must be more important or effect them more because they can't possibly intertwined and overlap and "hey you tagged your post with aro and ace tags but obviously its only about aromanticism/only about asexuality so remove some of those tags because it's annoying me" or worse I see aromantics being acephobic or asexuals being arophobic and it's like.... where do i fit in?

people think aroace ppl ran both communities as 1 community and they say it was bad and that we need to separate - but from my perspective it was two communities who worked together. the only difference now is that aroace ppl are getting pushed to the side. thrown under the bus. "you dont need rep you have tons of rep. society loves giving aroace rep!" and "not everyone is aroace. you're experience isn't universal and so you shouldn't talk about it" Aroace voices just got smaller. we got quieter. because our own communities decided we were privileged. we were more accepted than they were. or worse that we were actually the real freaks for not feeling both sexual and romantic attraction. we weren't palatable enough - there was nothing that could be used to normalize us. and besides, it was easier to just only fight for one set of rights, right?

and part of me understands it. it sucks. it sucks to always be a footnote. but guess what - aro and aces and aroaces are footnotes of the queer community. we're stuck here together and instead we're fighting over who's the more important footnote. we are all in the same boat and we're acting like we're not and trying to sink the ship forgetting we're all on it together.

[lestats-ovaries]

putting in my two cents as an aroace hazbin fan to the whole alastor shipping debate (adding a cut below because this got long-)

before I start, it's important to remind everyone:

alastor is canonically ace and (semi)canonically aro, and that should be respected the same way we'd respect angel dust's identity as a gay man, or vaggie's as a sapphic woman.

"ace" and "aro", while also functioning as labels unto themselves, are umbrella terms for a lottt of identities. Some of which do include the ability to experience sexual and romantic attraction, in different ways and at different levels (demi, cupio, lith/lithro, grey, aro-and aceflux, the list goes on).

So, given all that, is it possible to interpret alastor as experiencing some level of romantic attraction, or sexual attraction? Of course, identities like the ones I listed above are just as valid as any other acespec and arospec identity.

So, what's the issue then? Right now, a lot of fans are using the breadth of aspec identities and experiences as a shield, to excuse them shipping him like they would an allosexual/alloromantic character.

Just to make it clear, that in itself is erasure. And I know that's a strong statement, and that there being such a broad aroace experience adds nuance to any statement you can make on that, but we have to acknowledge as a fandom that there are objectively wrong ways to handle aspec characters, both in the way we discuss them and in the way we portray them in fan works.

And before anyone says it, saying "alastor isn't real" or "fanon content won't change his canon sexuality" doesn't work when real life aspec people can't even look in a tag of a character that's supposed to represent them without seeing their identity erased. It's the way I feel attempting to engage with a lot of hazbin content, and I know a lot of my fellow aspec hazbin fans are feeling it as well.

So, what's the solution to all this? That's unfortunately kinda complicated. Everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes as erasure, what is good rep, how much benefit of the doubt we should give people, et cetera, and so everyone's solutions look different. In a way there also isn't a way to solve it, since aroace erasure is so normalized in fandom culture (not just the hazbin fandom; fandom culture as a whole) that there will always be a significant portion of fans who will ignore, erase, or otherwise deny alastor's or any other aroace character's sexuality.

So, to put my two cents on it:

My philosophy is that if you're going to ship alastor (or any aspec character for that matter), it's best to have an identity in mind for him to use as reference. For example, I think of alastor as sex-repulsed aroace, and I write him with that in mind. Whatever you pick can be a steadfast headcanon, an identity tailored to the story you want to tell, or one you want to explore in your fanwork, whether for fun or to educate yourself on it better.

What's better is that you don't even need to mention the sexuality itself in the work! Show don't tell is a great writing tool, and for alastor specifically, who canonically isn't aware of his sexuality, it works perfectly. Just simply creating with it in mind, asking yourself, "how would someone with [insert identity] experience this?" and going from there, makes a world of difference.

Just in terms of good fanfic etiquette, I'd also make sure to include it in the tags if you're posting it on ao3, just to make sure your readers know what's up and to help with filtering (I personally don't read any alastor ship fics that don't include the asexual or aromantic tag at this point). Bada bing bada boom, that's representation right there!

Since Alastor is one of very, very few ace characters in mainstream media, and even less aro characters in media period, us as a fandom creating good representation with him is really important, especially in terms of the breadth of aspec identities. We don't get much representation, so claiming he's definitively one label or another isn't productive, and hurts the community in the long run. Fanfiction is first and foremost an exploration of canon, so why not play around with what "aro" and "ace" can look like for him?

Case and point, I've seen some incredible ship fics that headcanon him as demisexual and/or demiromantic, and do a great job representing those identities. I've also seen some really good fics that portray him as sex-repulsed, and others that portray him as sex-neutral or positive. All of that is great, and again, even if it isn't directly mentioned: adding subtext, putting it in the tags, and even simply writing the fic with the sexuality in mind does wonders.

Me personally, I headcanon Alastor with the same identity as me; sex- and romance-repulsed aroace, but open to queerplatonic relationships. That doesn't mean fics that interpret him with a different aspec identity are less valid, or are interpreting him wrong. All of it is valid representation.

And that's not even getting into queerplatonic relationships, which is what I put Alastor into for my own headcanons (queerplatonic radioapple fic when). For that, please do your own research, but remember that queerplatonic relationships tend to look different for every couple. They can be poly, include kissing and physical intimacy, or look just like what most people would consider a regular friendship or regular romance.

So, can you ship aroace characters? Sure you can, as long as it isn't at the expense of their sexuality, or more accurately, the representation their sexuality gives to a historically underrepresented group.

That's pretty much it from me, please remember to support aspec fanartists and fanfic writers, and happy (early) aromantic spectrum awareness week for all my fellow arospecs!!

[aled-first]

I posted 1,121 times in 2022

That's 1,117 more posts than 2021!

20 posts created (2%)

1,101 posts reblogged (98%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@dr-drea

@local-aro-cryptid

@inthetags

@nose-bl

@for-your-modesty-dude

I tagged 325 of my posts in 2022

#druck - 27 posts

#heartstopper - 25 posts

#druck s8 - 22 posts

#stranger things - 19 posts

#druck mailin - 19 posts

#druck season 8 - 17 posts

#goncharov - 9 posts

#nick nelson - 8 posts

#unreality - 8 posts

#mailin richter - 7 posts

Longest Tag: 137 characters

#yesss / i like the taste but i don't necessarily buy it for other reasons / yesss / nooo / brand nutella no but vegan version yes / yesss

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

"you asked me what i want. and what i want is *continues 5 minute monologue about everything but not about what she wants*"

16 notes - Posted June 30, 2022

#4

"as your token straight friend"

does that mean that neither elle nor isaac are straight? because i think elle's sexuality has not been mentioned before. and isaac is planned to be aroace (at least that's what alice said, but i don't know if you can count that as canon yet)

either way, i love all of them so much

22 notes - Posted May 1, 2022

#3

looking at ava's "you're no boyfriend material" from an aro perspective:

this is the last thing anyone of the group says to ben, this is the final mic drop

that's - at least how it's framed - the worst insult

at the same time, it says a (good) boyfriend is the best thing you can be, that's what's most important about your character

and whereas it's true that ben probably wouldn't be a good boyfriend, seeing how he treated mailin, that's not what makes him a "bad person"

he was an asshole completely unrelated to romantic relationships

and being a boyfriend (or romantic partner in general) is not everyone's goal

that druck frames being a romantic partner as the most important thing in the world, as what everyone longs to be, is definitely disappointing

the only thing that annoyed me about druck since the og generation, is that the main story was always about love interests, but it was okay because, for many people romantic love is important and i can still enjoy it even though i don't feel it, it was written well and friendship was always pictured as important even when it wasn't the main topic

but now, this season isn't written well, there were many hopes that it would bring some aspec rep, and now they follow a highly allonormative and amatonormative trope which just feels like the exact opposite of what we've hoped for

and amatonormativity isn't only harmful to aro people, nobody needs (or should need) a romantic partner to be happy, there's cool things about being single and if you're unhappy or have problems of whatever sort, having a significant other won't solve that

that druck follows potentionally harmful tropes, that also alienate aro spec people, is not what i would have expected them to do

(and i don't feel like it fits ava's character at all, but they already did ava so bad this season, this is not what surprised me about this scene)

23 notes - Posted June 28, 2022

#2

sooo, under the last clip (the mailin getting off after her controller vibrated for some reason one) i wrote a comment which i guess i'll translate now

i don't really like this season, i enjoyed the first 3 episodes and was exited for the further developments.

but, there weren't any developments, not really. like, yes, if you enjoy mastturbating, go for it, but it's not like you have to.

that masturbating is portrayed as something that's always positive, feels weird to me

for me, druck has always been a series, that tells new stories and the "masturbating can be nice"-story, we just know that story already.

this season would have been the perfect opportunity to tell something new.

at first i thought, this season would be aroace rep, which i was really exited about. then it was clear that mailin was into finn (romantically). and yes, she could theoretically still be on the aro spectrum, but it was a way to little topic, for it to be relevant.

then i had hopes for mailin being ace, but if she actually turns out being ace, it wouldn't feel like good rep. i know that asexuality is a spectrum and asexual people have different relations to sex or masturbating etc.

but designing asexual representation in a way that best fits allonormative standards? doesn't feel right to me. and if mailin would come to the conclusion that she is, in fact, ace, it would happen in the last episode. asexuality would only be a topic in one out of ten episodes. that's not a lot.

and if she's not ace, this whole season feels like a missed opportunity. then we would have followed a white, cishet, allo, young woman, who is also quite rich, for ten weeks. a woman who doesn't even acknowledge her privilege, who doesn't reflect on her own mistakes (she still thinks you can destroy books because you feel like it), who isn't good at communicating (like not being in contact with finn after small problems, or drunkenly telling him a week later that the sex was not the best idea) even though she said (in previous seasons) that she was taught to be open about feelings etc. when she had a fight with ava. and the problems that she actually has (ben, but that's it) are handled weirdly. it was only said once or twice that ben was the problem, that it was simply wrong of him to send mailin's nude (that he only got in the first place because he coerced her after she said no). instead the whole screentime was devoted to mailin and zoe fighting and finn being angry about mailin for sending the nude (that was before your relationship?! i don't think you have any right to dictate what mailin should or shouldn't do, and i honestly don't think it fits finns character to react that way).

there've been a lot of storylines, but none of them had a real ending (i wanna know who snitched on mailin and zoe, but there's a week left, so i still have hopes), none were told well (at least that's what it feels like to me), it feels like they just ignore old seasons (isi being non-binary and using all pronouns, what ava and fatou talk about in the abi prank, ava who has always promoted interscetional feminism and everything connected to it is now hyping mailin up even after mailin acts against what ava stands for)

what annoys me the most is that we have lots of cool characters in this show, whose stories haven't been told (in the series but also in mainstream media) who just get ignored

35 notes - Posted June 25, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

looking at the comments under the latest clip rn and there are a lot that are really cool

but some are just... eh

there are people saying that every victim of SA should decide for themselves how to deal with it, whether they want to go to the police etc.

and yes, that's true, but it also misses the point

because most victims are scared of going to the police, of what the police might say to them, of having to go through the traumatising events again, and then not even knowing that the abuser will get any consequences

but that's exactly the reason why we should show characters successfully reporting their abusers to the police, especially characters that are praised for "being strong" by their friends

we need to show young victims that going to the police can work and that it doesn't make the situation more traumatising

if we show a charcater not going to the police, even though they are "strong" and have the help of a big friend group, then victims will feel even less like going to the police, because if this strong character with lots of support can't do it, how could they?

71 notes - Posted June 27, 2022

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