#but again there's always an implication that we as woc are always the aggressor or mean

[halalgirlmeg]

I'm very weary of narratives and dynamics that paint people of color as like bullies, or intolerant/bigoted, or anything of the sort against white characters cause it's not that we're infallible either within specific communities or as a collective but like...idk like I feel like we're usually in these roles more often than not (its ESP Black women and girls, and Dark skin women and girls even moreso) like, esp when shows tout themselves as progressive cause knowing how Fandoms roll esp in regards to bleeding into actors off screen I just know there are people like going the hell in, because even when they're not bad people at all or just like a fleshed out human beings let them do one thing wrong, or do something fans don't like, people never shut the fuck up about it (look at Meredith and Amelia from Grey's vs Maggie and Bailey, esp in like the second half of the Grey's run) meanwhile white characters can never do anything wrong ever even when they're very much in the wrong which hmmm does that not also sound like real life?

[starlightafterastorm]

I made a meta about why I was disappointed in both Chuck and Moose’s storylines here. In that meta I expressed a wish for the writers to have switched the two storylines. I felt that it would have been a better choice in several ways and would have given better depth to each character as well as built characters on the show with a better basis in their original comics counterparts. 

Now. That meta was written and posted in Season 1 BEFORE Chuck’s second appearance in Episode 10, Jughead’s birthday party. It was long before the latest episode, season 2 episode 3 where we got to see more of Moose. With that in mind I want to address this response I got this morning to that meta 

annademac

At some point, doesn't the "let's give a poc a story about struggling with being a poc" become far less helpful then casting a poc in a story line that has nothing to do with them being a poc? Honestly, I didn't look at the two characters and even think about one being a poc and one being white. They were just characters with the story lines that they had.

I want to start of by saying this I mean for this to be a totally rational discussion and I apologize if I sound inarticulate and incoherent. It’s early, I have had far too little sleep and I am sick and injured. But I do want to give a response to this.

Full disclaimer. I am Asian. So yes I identify as a poc, woc. But I’m not the same kind of poc that Chuck and his actor, Jordan is. I can’t speak for all of the nuances in his experience as a young African American male. Nor can I speak about how it felt as someone with that kind of experience watch his storyline. I can, however, speak about what I’ve observed about how our society treats young African American males. 

While you make a valid point that, yes, not all poc characters need to have a storyline about their poc-ness and that it’s great to be able to watch a show and just enjoy their characters, those characters, those actors, and those storylines don’t exist in a vacuum. What I mean is that you watched Chuck’s storyline and didn’t see an issue regarding his poc-ness. I watched Chuck’s storyline and thought “This country has a history of painting young African American teens, not just males, as aggressive monsters and this is just another example.”

Because that’s true. Historical narratives have painted African Americans as more aggressive and lesser for it for how many decades (centuries?). African American males are literally dying in this country today because of this false stereotype that they are more violent and aggressive, especially sexually, at a younger age.

The writers took the first male African American Archie Comics character, (because Valerie predates him by a number of years) a character who is part-jock, mostly comic book artist who is often kinder and more supportive than other members of the cast and made him into a sex fueled jock with no remorse. 

Again, I understand that Riverdale is its own thing. That they adapted this character out. That everyone in this town is corrupt and flawed, even our main characters. I actually am really enjoying most of the adaptation and how they’ve changed a lot of the characters. 

But. This change with Chuck. Does nothing but turn him into a collection of negative stereotypes that is made worse by the fact that he is a poc. It feeds into this toxic narrative that perpetuates the image of African American males as sexual aggressors. 

My biggest problem with that storyline is that we’re not given any depth to Chuck’s character. In both of of his appearances we’re treated to a character who feels incredibly one note in comparison to the rest of the cast. His lines and his scenes give us no explanation, no back story for his character, and no reason for his actions. So, the viewers are left to assume that Chuck’s doing this just because he’s terrible. These are valid criticisms that would be accurate even if Chuck weren’t a poc. 

What I’m trying to say is that Chuck is bad writing. He’s honestly lazy writing. He’s not a character. He’s a plot device. 

These criticisms can be made for other members of the non main cast as well. Reggie, Dilton, Moose. They’re all pretty one-note. The difference is that we’re now getting more screen time for them to flesh out their characters. Which I’m super excited about. 

I love that Moose is now getting screen time with Kevin specifically. I love that we’re gonna get to explore that friendship (relationship?) now. I sincerely hope that, as much as I don’t like Chuck’s character, he does come back. And I think he will. I vaguely remember seeing something about him coming back. Because then he gets the opportunity to be more than just the “slut shaming black guy with no remorse”. I’m not looking to excuse his actions at all, but I’m saying that I want more from him and about him. Turn him into an actual character. Don’t excuse him but give him redemption. 

So yes, it is great for poc actors and characters to be able to have roles and stories that don’t revolve around their poc-ness. However that does not mean that their poc-ness is not a part of them and plays into larger implications of the cultural atmosphere. And in this particular instance, I believe giving Chuck that storyline did more harm than good. 

As a poc, you can never really disassociate yourself from your poc-ness. You’re always reminded of it. And as admirable as it is to think that we can watch a show and just think “that’s a character” without taking into account their poc-ness, that’s not really practical. 

If anyone else in the fandom who is more articulate or more familiar with this subject wants to chime in their two cents, that would be great. I’m gonna go take more painkillers and finish writing the latest chapter of my fic.