#ciene talks a lot about useless stuff

[cant-get-no-worse]

i am always very intrigued by the neymessi relationship. thoughts on them?

Hiya people! I'm currently having a good chuckle because as I read your asks, I see mutuals celebrating the neymessi overtaking cressi on ao3 party. Uncanny. World colllides. Anyways. Imma rant now, you just gave me free real estate!

Disclaimer : this isn't me parasocially psychoanalizing the friendship of two grown ass men I've never seen nor talked to, this is just me covering bases of funny thoughts me n some friends have been entertaining about it. It's senseless ramble and fun and I gotta make profit off of those hours I spend looking at them interact aight.

First of, whatever I could say about it, in the end, everything condenses into this, really: it's a beautiful human bound. Akin to those unlikely friendships brought together by football — kinda makes you think this god wrenched sport isn't so wasted after all. Then you see Harry Kane's face, and you deflate, but that's a whole otha thang (sorry Kane mutuals) (the bloke is coming to PSG anyways).

It's all the more fascinating as we partially saw it develop in real life, and its 'public' aspect is well documented, from the tweets of Neymar all the way back in 2011 fan girling over Messi when they hadn't even met, to the countless footage of games, backstages, documentaries, interviews, little snippets here and there. Let's go over some aspects in an orderly manner.

Similarities between Neymar and other dudes

You can kind of wonder how Leo, introverted as he is, could have ended up entertaining a decade-long friendship (spent apart for four whole years) with such guy as Neymar, a whole five years his junior. And then you look at Leo’s other myriad of friends over the course of the years: Ronaldinho, the whole Brazilian squad of Barcelona who took him under their wing because they liked him, Kun Agüero, Rodrigo De Paul and Leandro Paredes. All extroverted, a bit immature/impulsive, loudmouthed, joyful dudes, and then you realize the guy just has a knack for befriending such people. It just compliments his character. (I’m not adding Luis Suarez to the bunch cause while Luis is impulsive, loudmouthed, extroverted, joyful, he is also a whole other vibe, much more settled/mature, it’s a whole other thing. Could rant about it for hours too. That Messi/Suarez friendship is so genuine, easy, weird, and amazing).

What’s the diff with Suarez

So talking about Suarez, I think the best way to start discerning a relationship is to oppose it to others. The easiest way being here opposing the Messi/Suarez and Neymar/Suarez to the Neymar/Messi. They’re all friends, but the duos don’t work the same way, and it’s obvious. Messi/Suarez are besties, they share the same age, interests, mate, families, whatever. Messi brought him on his honeymoon. Like what the actual fuck. Anyways. Suarez/Neymar reads more like a friend/brothers relationship, were they liked to mess around, fuck around and make fun of each other. You’d think since Suarez and Messi are rigorously the same age, Messi and Neymar’d have a similar relationship. But na. You just can’t look at it and state Messi/Neymar relationship is only brother like. They are brothers, but not only. There’s a shit ton of layers, due to the circumstances of their meeting, their career trajectories, what they represent, for their countries as for football, the roles they had to assume towards each other at FCB in the beginning, but also due to their characters. So what’s the layers?

Childhood/idol

The whole « child gets to play alongside the idol he used to watch on TV » boat has been sailed already by a ton of other players from all leagues, it’s one of the joys of this sport. It’s very sweet, to see how much Neymar used to hop on Twitter to unabashedly fanboy alongside other people over a Messi performance or to even just wish him a very enthused happy birthday (the proofs are there and he hasn’t even deleted them lmfao, the boy was relentless). What I like about it, however, is how little that behavior faltered over the course of the years. Younger players generally tone down the whole idolizing stuff, whether because they’re disillusioned about it (don’t meet your heroes, eh), because they’re just getting used to it, because it’d be awkward, they reserve it when they’re asked about it, in shorter commentaries. Neymar didn’t. Quite the contrary; it’s like playing with Messi only heightened his esteem for the other’s abilities, and to this admiration of the professional side, a personal layer of first-hand appreciation, by becoming a teammate and a friend, was added. Ten years later, placing a bet on Neymar name-dropping Messi on his interviews remains the safest money gambling you’ll do in your life, alongside betting on Pep doing the same (Pep’s odds are admittedly a bit higher, but the man is just batshit insane.) How little Neymar cares about how his admiration is perceived by others or by Leo himself, how unabashedly awed and praiseful he remained of Leo’s skills. Leo himself said he found it a bit embarrassing at times, because Neymar would say it to his face, but at the end of the day, it was just flattering and endearing to receive compliments from a friend and a fellow good player. That side of their relationship could have become, as some put it, embarrassing or awkward, a star-struck teammate who never grew out of it, but because of the sheer sincere nature of both their character (albeit a transparency showing through different ways, Neymar’s being the most flashy) – a trait that seemed to have been key in the establishment of their friendship – they managed to make it simply impossible for it to be embarrassing. They’re completely candid with the other about that, have been since day one, and the result is one of the healthiest child-turned-teammate-of-idol relationship you’ll get to witness. It’s utterly touching, and extremely human.

Brazil/Arg superstars & Countries rivalry

The other obvious aspect is the whole Brazil/Argentina dichotomy. This one is the thing that get a lot of imagination fuming on the internet due to the cinematic parallels/star crossed/movie-like narratives you can appose and romanticize. Barring every other consideration, I just think it’s so fitting it’s almost laughable. The resemblances in career path – two players from arguably the two countries the most insane about football and with the greatest football legacy, star boys turned 10 and figures of their respective selections, compared to an early age to the two ever looming figures of Maradona and Pelé (although Messi probably in a more glaring way, with Maradona himself stating outright the succession thing and Neymar’s comparisons being split between Pelé and Ronaldinho’s profiles). Their friendship threw a bridge over that eternal rivalry, bridge that became all the more obvious the more years passed and the more they became the centralizing figures for their NT and faced each other on the fields. The two teams trash each other on the ground, but respect prevail between players – not just Neymar and Leo, btw, that goes for seemingly every player, given that a lot of them crosses paths with each other at club level. In any case, I believe that mutual respect condenses itself in the 10’s relationship. The video of Leo refusing to engage in a song mocking Brazil (2023 Arg-Panama WC celebration) (keeping in mind trash-singing culture is widespread in Latin America, much more so than Europe; singing such songs isn’t necessarily personal, it’s just… tradition, and especially when you’re Brazil and Argentina and you just beat the other) and in another instance (after the 2021 Copa America) actively discouraging teammates to drop the subject tells you everything you need to know about the amount of care/respect the both of them hold each other to.

Mentor

There’s the whole mentoring role to it, too. When Neymar arrived in 2013 in the team, Leo had established himself already. Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, all remained the older mentors of the team, but in term of talent and path, it kind of became obvious that Neymar could become Leo’s protegee the same way Leo was Dinho’s. The first steps were hesitants, as we all know, what with Neymar needing time to fit in a whole new league and continent, the infamous locker room chat, but after a year or so the ball got rolling (ha-ha). Imo, eventually (perhaps not in the first years, but from 2015/2016, at least after the 2014 WC) Leo seemed to have fully settled/grew into this kind of mentor-mentality and wanted to help Neymar get his BO and stuff. That’s partly why the 2017 departure could have left a bitterness aftertaste or at least a feeling of failure to have completely achieved what Dinho did on his part. See how eager he was to help Ousmane when Dembélé arrived.

Complementary play and MSN balance

On the football side, I mean. Not much to say. They’re probably the two guys with the biggest reserve of pure, raw talent of the 21st century (I mean from 2000 til 2023, as far as we know). It’s ridiculous how those two guys ended up playing together. At 20 years old, people were asking if Messi was one of the greatest players of all time, and at 21 years old, Ronaldinho said that Neymar would surpass Messi. Talent doesn’t necessarily equal chemistry on field, tho (cough side glance at you know where cough), yet they made it work, thanks to Luis who provided the final balance for it all. Funnily enough, people always praise MSN as being completely devoid of ego, as if they’re some kind of saints individually, but that’s not true. They have some ego, they’re just good dudes. Ego isn’t a bad personality trait. Most top athletes have it, it pushes you. Those guys just knew where to place it, how to handle it, and they were just too good of persons individually, and too good friends mutually. They were selfless with each other, and it was so damn refreshing to see, and it's something that perpetuates still at PSG.

Physical proximity/chemistry

Do you hear that? That’s the horde of Ao3 writers barreling towards, foam at their mouth and keyboards at their fingers, wide eyed. Quick, shut the door. Oh wait, I’m one of them. YOU’RE TRAPPED. HAHA.

Na, about that, it’s just of those things that happen. Their chemistry and instinct to touch is obvious, if the hundredths of pictures and compils with Ariana Grande screaming Save Your Tears in the background wasn’t enough to pass the hint. But honestly, there’s nothing more to see here. Some players get more physical than others, just because. Some people get more physical than others, just because. That’s chemistry. Football, like all sports, take you from the lowest point just to lift you up with an adrenaline rush the very next minute. Unlike other sports, however, it’s a team sport, so you play, you work through it, you win, you celebrate not alone, but with other people. Much more so when you’re working as a unit, like Neymar and Messi were with Suarez as the forwards, tuning to each other’s mind/bodies to get the chemistry running and the goals flowing.

Seeing them together uncannily reminded me of one of my own relationship with someone in my entourage. We disliked each other, and then kind of overnight, unexpectedly, became friends, and started touching each other. There wasn’t anything sexual about it, it was innocent in all forms, but there was just this instinctive, mindless move of putting arms around each other’s shoulders, holding hands, or whatever. There was genuinely nothing to see here, it’s just the way our friendship/relationship worked. It’s an intrinsic part of it, a constant. Touching holds more than a thousand words. You can imagine how such a medium of communication is exalted through sports, where physicality is everywhere and the first language everyone speaks.

Whether in 2015 or 2022, take any video, they’re always going to be jumping to each other. There’s some degrees of variation; sometimes, most times, it’s to celebrate, it’s euphoric and lively and flying about, others it’s a touch on the shoulder, the hair, the waist. Whether as a teammate checking on the other because of an injury (generally it was due to Neymar being bodied by opposition players), diffusing a situation (Neymar getting worked up over another player), as friends gossiping, as opposite players (Leo asking for a yellow on Ney and then both touching to level the situation), a hug or touch on the thigh (2015 UCL celebration), a gentle touch on a knee during training for no other reason than it’s a natural instinct and it’s an relationship in which it’s normal, whatever. Sometimes they hug to celebrate, sometimes it’s loaded (see 2021 CA final). I can’t explain it, just browse about and you’ll see plenty. It’s also the eyes — Neymar can be caught looking unabashedly at Leo with the same adoration as a kid. His platonic passion is just one of a kind. Leo will be found staring amused, tender or just lost in thought. It’s endearing. The eyes, chico. Once again; it just works.

There’s not much to see or read here, it’s just because it is. Marco Verratti doesn’t have a relationship as personal with them as they do and yet the fucker will always find a way to touch them thighs or shoulders – because some people are just physical like that. Also because he’s an Italian hooker. But that’s a whole other story. Ramos and Modric have insane chemistry in the same way. A handful of teammates pairs have that kind of thing going.

They also don’t convey it like the other people they’re physically close to. You just watch Messi and Suarez interact and touch (and they do! A lot!) and it’s not the same as when Neymar and Messi do. Messi and Agüero, Messi and Piqué (cough), Messi and Pedri, Neymar and Mbappé, Neymar and Dani Alves, Neymar and the whole fucking world cause he’s that touchy mf. Each one of these ways of touching tell the depths and subtleties of the relationship lying behind, you could ramble hours about two people like I’m doing but at the end of the day you just look at how the both of them touch and look, and you get it. (i direct you to cara's blog!)

It works for them, as it works for lots of human beings. We touch to convey stuff. They lived through tough and euphoric times with their club, had the weight of the two arguably most prestigious football selections on their shoulders, went through boring training sessions, flights, team drama, tax evasion stuff (cue laughter), they’ve been evolving in the same world of money, public and fast-paced life for years. Add to that the personal relationship - friends, teammates, mentors, opposites, etc. They’re on a common understanding ground. They touch. That’s the wordless language.

Extrovert/introvert

The extrovert introvert thing, blabla. It’s just endlessly entertaining to see them interact because it seems like a stark contrast on paper, but in reality, they kinda even each other out. Neymar is his usual outgoing, ray of sunshine (Galtier’s words, not mine), fidgeting, energy-filled dude, and Leo’s calm, dealing with his shit on his own terms, perfectly okay with not talking, but also perfectly okay with gossiping and joking about. That’s one of the most underrated aspects to their friendship, imo. It just seems, from 2013 to now, that they just have tremendous fun being around each other. It’s not the same kind of energetic, very showy-pranksty-physically fun you can see Neymar have with other Brazilians or Suarez or Mbappé etc, because of Leo’s character, it happens in a different way (the energies match differently). Whether at Barca, on an international pitch or at PSG, each time they are seen being around each other, you just know there’s gonna be a picture of them cracking up over dumb shit. Every time. Clockwork. It’s kinda amazing lmfao.

The 2017 – 2021 era

Now you’d think they’d be close during their days at FCB because of circumstances; you have a coworker, you surprisingly get along fine, you become friends, then one of you leave works, and slowly but surely the relationship or wish to reunite get fainter and fainter. It’s just something we experience a lot, and it’s also something you see in football a lot due to transfers (cue that tumblr post about a player transfering is like selling your child). Players become friends, friendships get severed because of space and time and the impossible schedule. The thing with Ney and Leo is that all throughout 2017 – 2021, they not only seemed to have maintained a friendship, but above all a fierce wish to play with each other again. Multiple accounts from that period of time say Leo reportedly asked for Neymar to be brought back by the board each time they asked which improvements/suggestions the players (and esp Leo, given his influence at FCB) would give. Neymar stated multiple times and publicly (in a typical Neymar fashion) that he wanted to play with Leo again. It’s like they’d found the perfect partnership, on and off the pitch, and they were both wanting it again.

The Barça to PSG transition

Now the PSG era!! It's quite fascinating, for you could consider the dynamics to have been inversed: Leo was the one arriving, Neymar was the experienced one on these grounds. There’s no football mentorship going on, for Neymar didn't have to teach Leo how to play, Leo having enough experience to just about integrate himself anywhere, but there is the mentorship in adapting, if you will – to a new league, new country, new teammates. Similarities in situation plastered everywhere, eight years later. You can kind of see why it can be easy to go mad at how this entire relationship do seem like a written story filled with parallels cause the author is so keen on it.

In the first year, Leo was seen hanging with the Latam - Neymar, Paredes, Di Maria, Icardi etc - (and Marco Verratti, cause the short fucker is just likeable like that) to the point where there really seemed to be "clans" within the locker rooms. I don't think it's necessarily true, rather it was just a bunch of close friends (two of which he'd just won the Copa América with) and shameless admirers of him who were all too eager to help him adapt, esp given Leo's character - he just isn't one to take the first step towards others, normally, even less so in a foreign country/club where locker rooms dynamics are already up and going. I don't remember which PSG ex player said he was quiet in his corner and didn't make no waves. Then after Di Maria and Paredes' departure, it seems Neymar really took on that role.

See the videos of training or games from 2021 – 2023, a rough 80% of the time they remain glued to each other, with others tagging along (Verratti esp). They do the exercises together, they warm up alongside, they go in and out of the pitch talking, they wait talking (see : the Riyadh XI game). The difference with FCB times are quite stark: in Barça they would have other friends to be around to here and there - Suarez, Busquets, Alba, Piqué, Alves - while it seems at PSG they're revolving around each other. Not that Neymar doesn't have friends; he's befriended the whole locker room, but he did once slip in whatever interview that Paris had never managed to be really home. It's nothing dramatic, but an interesting insight. Leo on the other hand is perhaps not very interested in entertaining personal relationships with the other players outside of professionalism – once again Verratti seems to be an exception, they stick a lot together esp since Neymar’s injury —, so it’s just natural. So it was about falling back/gravitating around the most familiar thing you could find, made all the more obvious after the Di Maria/Paredes departure. They know each other, it’s a relationship of transparency and trust (as aforementioned) and fun, and they'd always wanted to play with each other again. At that point, it's not a new friendship where they just know each other for two years on surface, are unsure about each other, or prompt to unstability or smth. They've been friends for a decade. They've been through very emotional moments in club and in nation (2021 CA Final), it's not just being coworkers. Old habits die hard, etc. Imo the core of the relationship didn't change, but the setting and circumstances did add closeness to them - Leo is just fine/most comfortable being with Neymar and Verratti mostly, and the two are too happy to oblige because they love him. Makes for a wonderful midget trio, of which we unfortunately didn't get enough.

Conclusion

I like it. As you could probably guess from the Bible-length commentary I just pumped out. It’s just refreshing to see a relationship as genuine as these two, seemingly coming out of the blue, that somehow continued through time and space separation. The absurd resilience of such bound makes it seems so effortless for them to be friends, due to the fundamentally good/true nature of their respective characters, and I treasure it dearly, even more so after having followed/seen other friendships from different players be broken up over shit. It’s a caring, genuine, trusting, tender, fun, complicit relationship, and one I think will go on beyond the end of their football careers – in other forms.