#coev vs rewrite

[cats-of-eden-valley]

So Jasmine is a fusion of whitestorm and frostfur?

more like if Frostfur had subsumed Whitestorm's narrative role entirely. She'll serve as the one stepping up as Cypress's health fails, like Whitestorm did, but that aspect will be compounded by the complicated relationship between Jasmine and Cypress, and the character herself will probably remind you more of Frostfur overall than Whitestorm

[cats-of-eden-valley]

yall a big plot shift just happened,,,holy fuck the way this setup is all sliding together goes so hard

So. Sakenti's (p. Tiger) mother, Locust, is one of the Matrons. Her family's spot is in jeopardy, though, because she doesn't have any suitable successors. Sakenti can't be a successor because he's a tom.

Originally, I was struggling with how Asphodel fits into this, because like. With the new lore and the Coalitions, why would he be considered for a Matron spot. It makes far less sense than in the original.

But you know who is a strong fighter, with plenty of strong, healthy heirs? Hollyhock (p. Speckle).

And Hollyhock's daughters are Calendula (p. Golden) and Amaryllis (p. Lion). The former had strong (romantic? friendship? yet to be determined) ties with Sakenti. The latter ends up dying, but the idea of Sakenti arranging her death because he's slowly picking off Hollyhock's family is extremely good.

Asphodel isn't safe though because now he's Calendula's mate (AND had strong romantic ties with Sakenti) and uh. It's good for Lotus's arc. Sorry, bud, you're still my fave though.

[cats-of-eden-valley]

I want to know about the main four protagonist of this series, their names and what’s going to be different from the warriors rewrite

Well Lotus I've talked plenty about, so how about the other three?

Im back after writing the post to say: I'm limiting this post to Irva/Lep cus Long but feel free to ask about the other two 👀

Leopardstar -> Irva

Irva still has a sister, Trevally (p. Silverstream), but unlike the rewrite, they were born in the pride! Their mother is Whiting (p. Willowbreeze) who is the product of an illegal relationship that resulted in her family being stripped of and denied matronhood (details not yet hashed out).

Now, in light of one of the Matrons (the Speaker, known as Herring (sorta fills the role of Crookedstar, but she's p. Echomist)) verging on retirement with no heirs to take her place, Whiting plays a huge role in coercing Irva to do anything she can to redeem the family and earn their spot back. On the other side of the equation, though, are Lamprey (p. Sunfish) and her daughter, Shiner (p. Shadepelt) who are also fighting for the same honour.

The plot remains very much up in the air, but all the usuals will still be involved one way another. Irva's mentor is killed during a conflict, her sister does an illegal, Irva makes horrible decisions, etc.

Also there may or may not be arranged marriage between Shiner and Irva as a plot piece, in honour of everyone thinking Lep had a crush on Shadepelt.

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Is Sakenti evil like Tiger? Like, does his dad become an outsider or whatever and he is raised by Locust or whoever his mother is to hate outsiders, and he gives Lotus crap over it? Also, does the whole molly reverence thing mirror the Sisters? Sorry if this sounds blunt or rude, i dont mean it like that…

I guess that would all depend on what you consider evil. Sakenti's one of the antagonists of COEV, but I don't think evil is the right word for him.

By now, he's departed quite a bit from Tigerclaw. His mother is Locust, (Read about her here) and he has no father in his life, but his family have been matrons of Goldspring for about as long as anyone can remember, so it's a big deal when he becomes the only surviving heir of the family, but he's a tom, therefore disqualifying him.

So you've got this guy who was born a failure. To Goldspring he represents the end of a powerful lineage, one that saw them through a lot of tough scenarios that a lot of cats still remember. His grandmother is solidified in legend, and every great thing she did all comes to an end with...him.

And through no fault of his own, either, because Sakenti is a talented cat. Objectively, he has qualities of great leaders, and he excelled at everything growing up. Yet he gets told no, for what he believes is a bad reason.

And it's not like his disputes aren't valid, but the ones with the most authority all have their own reasons for enforcing this law so harshly. Everyone has their own motives and desires that drives this struggle of inheritance.

As for Sakenti's thoughts on Lotus, I don't think he would think much of them at first. If anything, I think he'd really like Lotus, because they don't have the same prejudices that a prideborn cat has. Lotus is prolly his ideal version, a future where it doesn't matter what sex you're born as.

Also, I get where you're coming from, asking if it's inspired by the Sisters, but the prides are based on...prides. Like lion prides in real life nature fjfjfj

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Is Caph’s earth-and-ice color palette permanent? It’s very striking, but I haven’t seen a lot of Fire-inspired characters with such a color scheme!! /pos

Yes!! That's my intention!! Lotus's design, down to the very bones, is meant to depart from any hint of fire because...well, that's Warriors. FIRESTAR is Warriors. and COEV is becoming my own thing, so removing the aspect of Fire from my main character felt like an essential part of that process for me :P

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Can you provide a more detailed look/explanation of each of the ranks? I'm a little confused by all the specifics, but very invested and interested in your lore thus far!

Absolutely!

Matrons - The three cooperative leaders of the pride. They pass on their rank to their chosen daughter, who takes their place once they retire or die. A cat must have a litter to become a matron.

Speaker - Not the leader, but the pride's representative. The speaker is one of the three matrons, and does all the talking from announcements to ceremonies and more. The Speaker is chosen among the matrons when the previous Speaker dies or retires. The prides vary in how their speakers are chosen.

Healer - The healer is the spiritual leader of the pride as well as its doctor. They are well-educated about the territory and the things that dwell in it. They interpret signs and omens from the ancestors and spirits, create charms and trinkets, and performs rituals.

'Paws (saplings/minnows/pebbles?) - Young cats who have begun to learn the skills required for life and haven't yet reached adulthood.

Kittens are kittens. They stay close to home, under watch of the adults.

Retired cats are cats who have given their service to the pride for many years and are no longer able to continue that service. It's a position of great honour and respect.

Coalitions are the dudes clubs. The majority of toms born into the prides will leave with a coalition once they reach adulthood. They go up the river during dry season, following herds of herbivores, and only return to the valley during the wet season.

Toms who stay (for any reason) take a vow of celibacy and never sire kittens and are forbidden from participating in battle. They end up becoming crafters or hunters, and on occasion can be tellers or healers, but they cannot be matrons. Toms, whether they're coalition or otherwise, are allowed to retire with the pride once they're old enough.

Everyone else is a typical member of the pride (duties vary, some hunt, some craft, etc).

[cats-of-eden-valley]

YES OFC I DO, ALWAYS:

Who is currently the character that’s taking up the most space in your brain?

What tools are you most excited about incorporating into this world?

Do the prides sing? If so, do they each have their own unique sound, or do they branch off from one primary musical style?

Who currently has your favorite design of those you’ve shared thus far?

Has there been any major developments done to Caph that we, your audience, have yet to see?

Been kinda musing on Lamprey (p. Sunfish) lately and how her methods and motives might begin to change from how they were in the Rewrite now that the setting and story have undergone so many changes, n especially what might her connection with Sakenti (if any?) be

this is shameful but i only very recently realized that walking sticks would absolutely be a thing, especially for travellers, and i need to hit an object design hyperfix so bad so i can draw more tools. the ACCESSORIES. ugh.

the prides definitely sing but i am deeply not a person who knows music. i listen to the same 4-5 songs on a daily basis and they're all SIAMES and Glass Animals i am not qualified to talk about music (aka headcanon zone. have at it fjfjf)

THAT I'VE SHARED...honestly i reallyyyy like Hemlock's I'm so glad I went for the browns with her.

Actually here's something: Caph is a bit older, comparatively, and has a bit more involved history/experience living as an outsider before they join Goldspring (Asphodel would jokingly say that Lotus needs to catch up, Lotus thinks that Asphodel would be surprised how easily they can keep up). They didn't just grow up raised by Petra, but with two others: Bellatrix (Petra's littermate) and Polaris (Petra's Uncle/Mentor)

[cats-of-eden-valley]

coev has been squiggling around in my brain lately I'm obsessed with the worldbuilding and all the designs are so fucking pretyyy

quick question i hope, Will the events of the first arc of warriors be about the same as coev or will they diverge from them?

Honestly just by virtue of the worldbuilding mixing things up, the plot has already begun to diverge! I think at the end of the day, it'll absolutely hit similar beats (outsider joins, murders happen, power grabs are made, etc) but the manner in which COEV hits those beats will be notably different. Kinda like two songs with the same core beat, but which manage to sound entirely different regardless

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Is Lavatera living longer than how she did in the rewrite?

I'm still kinding waffling back and forth on it, but I think she's more relevant to Iris and her character arc if she dies pre-story

Cus this time around, I want Iris to actually feel a little bit like Lotus is taken in to the pride to replace Lavatera, which is where a lot of her bitterness wells up from as opposed to the rewrite, where I just had it that she was spoiled and mean cus she was babied by Redtail after her sister's death

[cats-of-eden-valley]

!!! Mind telling us the thought process behind each (or just your favorites) of the names of the Goldspring?

- COEV Enjoyer

ADMITTEDLY a lot are based solely on vibes, but I have some interesting ones:

Hollyhock for Speckletail came to me in a vision and I could not ignore it. It just. works So Well.

Cypress for Bluestar was actually one that I chose as a placeholder, but it ended up really growing on me!

Locust I very specifically wanted a name that sounded a bit more...harsh. Dreary. I thought it would contrast Leopardfoot's passive personality nicely.

Larkspur and Asphodel were purely vibes based. They just seemed Right.

Lionheart as Amaryllis because Amaryllis is a winter bloomer, and Lionheart is the light of Frostfur's life.

Aspen for Ravensong because I wanted soft sounds, with the bonus of trembling aspens being a thing, which I was amused by

Lotus for Fireheart was SO hard to settle on, I cycled through quite a few names before landing on that one. I like the soft sounds of the name, plus, being that they're an "exception to the rule" in the eyes of the pride wrt outsiders, I thought the symbolism of beautiful lotus blooms coming up from murky, dirty water was fitting for Cypress to give them.

Cinquefoil for Cinders because...well, they sound similar, and it keeps the lighthearted energy.

Wisteria for Snowfall because I desperately wanted to use wisteria for a name, and Snowfall is one of my faves, so I bestowed it upon him as a gift (I think Wisteria sounds very elegant, as well, which I think fits)

Amaranth for One-eye because it's a symbol of immortality and she's old as balls

Aaand Thistle for Whitestorm as a little nod to Thistleclaw as well as to fit his personality

[cats-of-eden-valley]

YAY YOUR BACK!!! So they have scales gosh fire guy going to be the only one without in this pride… what have you plan on their backstory

I'MMA BE REAL that's one of the things I haven't figured out fkgjh I think I need to figure out the conflicts of the story more before I can tailor their backstory to be especially relevant. All I know is that their name becomes Lotus, and they have a sister called Petra

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Can you give us some fun facts? 👀 Anything about specific characters you’d like to share?

- COEV enjoyer Anon

Random list of facts:

Aspen (p. Ravensong) and Sakenti (p. Tigerclaw) are now brothers :3c

Asphodel (p. Redtail) and Sunflower (p. Goldenflower) are now mates!

A lot of Iris's (p. Sandstorm) arc is going to be about the fact that she and her sister, Lavatera, were born specifically to fill the role of matron instead of Asphodel, who didn't feel comfortable taking it as a tom

Irva (p. Leopardstar) and Tetra (p. Tetra) are now Sturgeon (p. Crookedstar) and Whitling's (p. Willowbreeze) daughters! Sturgeon is now a Molly as well and is Herring's (p. Echomist) daughter

A lot of the competition between Irva and Shiner's (p. Shadepelt) now stems from the fact that Herring is retiring, and though Irva is ~technically~ her heir, being Whitling's daughter (because her parent was an outsider and it was a huge scandal) has the rest of the pride worried that she's cursed. Shiner's family doesn't have a matron spot because her grandmother was Whitling's aunt, and the entire family got yeeted from the spot

The valley is tropical, so they have two seasons: wet and dry. The cats call the seasons the Waking Year and Sleeping Year respectively.

[cats-of-eden-valley]

makes sense to me! i hope I'm not bugging you with questions or anything, but what happened with Cypress and Perch's relationship then? How did Bream wind up in Coldbank?

I love the questions you're not bothering me!

With Cypress and Perch (Bluestar and Oakheart) things turned out more or less the same. Perch remained with Coldbank Pride (now as a crafter) under a vow of celibacy, which was going great until he started a fling with Cypress across the border that resulted in her getting pregnant.

The dry season was a bad one, but Coldbank was still doing well so Cypress sent her son and daughter to Coldbank and kept the weakest kitten so that all three had a chance to live.

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Are Princess and Rusty still related, as they are in canon? Petra and Lotus’s names are so different! Just wondering if that meant something 👀

- COEV Enjoyer Anon

Lotus's previous name was Caph! And they were adopted by Petra. They call her their sister cus it's the relationship they have, but they don't have the same parents or anything like they did in the rewrite

[cats-of-eden-valley]

oh nice, it's good to see this back! ^_^ out of curiosity, how will the forbidden relationships work with coalitions in play? is mating with a coalition member from a nearby/rival pride taboo?

Okay so. For anyone not in the know: all toms get booted from the pride after they've been trained (with some Heavily Restricted exceptions (the prides also ignore gender for this one)) to join a coalition, which typically stick with toms of their birth pride (i still need to come up with the specifics of coalition life tho) and leave the valley during the dry season, when there's less food, and follow the herds of Massive Prey Animals back up the river.

Meanwhile the mollies stay back and raise and train the kittens/paws (who are trained for Three Seasons). There's a lot of taboo about who you're allowed to mate with--firstly, it's a little frowned upon (varies from pride to pride) to take a tom as a mate in the first place, and toms that stay back take essentially a vow of celibacy. Typically, a mate is another molly (and because they can't have kits with each other (through the eyes of the law, at least)) who raise their litter(s) together.

The way the mollies get pregnant though is that come the wet season when the toms return with the herds, they mingle with the prides and make deals with the mollies. Coalitions aren't allowed back to their home pride because of the nature of this event (though modern day, visits are considered Okay) because they want to keep the blood fresh and prevent incest.

So with Delphini (p. Greystripe), I'm thinking the crime is less that they're from different prides (normally this would be encouraged!) and instead because A) Delphini stays throughout the Dry Season and refuses to leave with the coalitions (and worse, does so without the pride knowing he's hanging around) and B) the fact that Tetra is shacking up with a tom for the long haul

[cats-of-eden-valley]

Hey hey, how did Asphodel and Sunflower happen? 👀 - COEV enjoyer

On a meta level or story level?

Story level is that Asphodel was having a lot of trouble grappling with his identity and with Matrons as the "mother of the family," and since Larkspur is a healer, it's on him to take over. His other option would be to have children, and inheritance can skip over him to a daughter instead--which brings with it its own issues.

The decision kind of got made for him though when he got pregnant, and Sunflower ended up being a huge support for him during that time. They were already close friends before that (Asphodel, Sunflower, Sakenti, and Amaryllis were tight knit while training!) so the switch to a romantic relationship wasn't hard.

On a meta level, Aggy convinced me of how delicious the love triangle potential was between Asphodel, Sakenti, and Sunflower would be, and I fell in love with it. Even more so with the impact that would have on Iris, (who is also affected by the story that Asphodel only had her and her sister because he needed an heir, and that's a hard position to be in--especially when you weren't even supposed to be the heir to begin with).

Asphodel = Redtail / Larkspur = Spottedleaf / Sunflower = Goldenflower / Sakenti = Tigerclaw / Amaryllis = Lionheart / Iris = Sandstorm