#contextualizing them and sometimes pointing out real mitigating or at least... explanatory elements maybe
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Boiled down to an overly reductive binary, there's really two approaches people can take to 'spicy toxic problematicness' for a character.
Either it's the starting point for the character, or it's the ending point for the character.
That is, for some people, the real fun is in detangling a fucked up mess of a character and bringing them to some level of... if not 'okay', then at least 'more okay' compared to before. It's not about turning them into a fluffy harmless woobie that barely resembles themselves, all the rough edges filed off, but it definitely does ultimately involve them ending up somewhere more functional than they began.
For others, the toxicity is the goal, the draw, the end game. They want the characters to get... well, worse implies a moral judgement that doesn't always apply, but to borrow a phrase I heard someone use a few weeks ago, they probably want to accelerate a character's fucked-upness. That end point may involve them still being better off in terms of their lived daily reality, maybe even involve them hurting less people, or even helping people, but they're more fucked up than they were before, even if in different ways.
Obviously, this is, as I said, reductive, but separating out the two trendlines when it comes to fandoms for the kinds of characters or ships that attract this kind of binary can be hard, and can result in intrafannish issues, because people may tend to see one as the only acceptable approach, or at least the only form of approach that involves real appreciation for the character.
But neither one is solely valid, even insofar as this binary really holds water in lived reality.
Hard to keep in mind sometimes.
#Musings#Amy Dallon#To no one's surprise she's the specific character at the forefront of my mind for this post though she's hardly the first or only where I'v#been observing and living this dichotomy#One thing that I do find myself struck with is that I say - and I do - that I like spicy problematic ships and characters and premises#but then a lot of people will like them in all sorts of 'wrong' ways or ways that don't sit with me#and then I'm left wondering if I'm actually more vanilla in my fictional tastes#but I mean I'm really not it's just a clash in how these trendlines fit for my views of characters#with every spicy problematic character or group I like - Blood Elves Forsaken Amy Madison Faith Lehane Wesley Wyndam Pryce#Illyria and Grant Ward and Kara Lynn Palamas and Natasha Romanoff and Yelena Belova#Amy Dallon and Nyssa Al Ghul and Sara Lance and Draco Malfoy (even if he is relative weaksauce in canon HP) and so on#I fall into the first camp#I am fascinated by fucked up people and groups and how they got there#but what's even more interesting to me is the way they get *back* from that#not always or even really ever to the point of being like - 100% gold standard before they fucked up#but like I said to somewhere functional#But my blorbo really did do all those bad things#and I'm not interested in denying or erasing them#contextualizing them and sometimes pointing out real mitigating or at least... explanatory elements maybe#but they happened and they're key#but then I'm interested in them coming back from and moving on from that#rather than them getting worse or doing more#that latter version is#I must remind myself valid but it sure isn't what I want to read#Kylia Writes a Novel In The Tags#Because why the fuck not apparently
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