#disclaimer: this is intentionally vague and is not supposed to be a representation of any place or culture in the real world

[thebaffledcaptain]

Can you give an example (not name-and-shaming, just something vague or generic) to illustrate what you mean about people blorbo-ifying historical figures? I'm wondering how much of what you're interpreting as that is people intentionally stepping off the path of history to have fun with obviously-fictionalized copies of those characters - versus, for example, those people saying "Hamilton was autistic" because they want to relate to him/take three small misunderstood details and run with it.

I'm leading this with the disclaimer that obviously one post on this topic does not represent my entire view on a subject as nuanced as this, and the disclaimer that I have never and will never specifically go in and call particular people out on it because that's just an asshole move and ultimately not a respectful or effective way to confront stuff like this (not that I thought you were implying either of those things, anon).

The biggest specification I can make is that I'm not talking about already fictionalized versions of these historical figures when I complain about this kind of thing: I am of the belief that a fandom side of history can exist and that is not inherently a bad thing. The problem occurs when the lines between "fandom" and "history" become blurred, often unintentionally, and frequently as a result of people's genuine interest in these (fictionalized representations of) historical figures. History-inspired and history-based media, as well as interactions with it, are not inherently wrong as long as they're not claiming to be actual history. Like, as much as most of us cringe to look at it, I think if Miku Binder Thomas Jefferson could exist solely in the contextual void of the Hamilton musical, that's honestly not the worst thing in the world. (Honestly, I can't know for sure the artist's true views on the subject, but I feel like something that exaggerated could be indicative that they're not talking about the historical figure Thomas Jefferson himself, but specifically this fictional Hamilton musical version.)

But as I said, I think there does result a lot of genuine interest (which is great!) in the history and the figures behind the fandom stuff, which often leads to the blurring of these lines—people learning more, becoming passionate, but mistakenly and probably unintentionally equating these historical figures with their fictional representations and treating them like they would any fictional character. I don't, like, personally hold a hatred for these people because I think most of the time it goes unrecognized. It's more of a result of ignorance or misunderstanding of historiography than it is a genuine disrespect for learning history.

So anyway, to provide an actual example like you asked, I'll say writing fanfiction about characters while claiming they are the actual historical figures. Writing fanfiction for a history-based fandom, or creating fictional characters inspired by them, is one thing, but doing it for the actual genuine figures from history is another. I recognize that this might be partly a result of my personal philosophy on the whole RPF issue, but the idea of treating real people like characters without their consent has never sat right with me. I suppose you could debate the ethics of them already being dead, but still, as a principle, I am of the philosophy that one should treat other people as people, and I find it very weird to treat them as characters when they are still people, however long dead they are. I don't love certain types of historical fiction for this same reason, so I hope it doesn't exclusively come off as a fandom thing. I think this is one of those places where these figures' relatability is indeed an important perspective, because it reminds us of the fact that they were just like you and me, and thus I see it as important to treat them as such: not with blind respect and reverence, but also not with a disregard for their real human existence.

Other stuff has the same sorts of issues: making headcanons, certain fanart, slapping labels on people without leaving room for nuance (I can't put everything under a blanket statement, obviously). It's because of how close I feel to history that I take issue with this stuff—because I always, always want to recognize that above all, these people were people, and I need to acknowledge them as people. In a certain sense I aim to treat them the way I want to be treated, like I'd do for any of my fellow humans (with the obvious nuance that comes from academic perspectives and such), because again, they're people too.

On the issue of relatabilty, I certainly don't think it's wrong to assess evidence through the perspective a modern lens, nor do I think it's wrong to want to relate to these figures. I simply think that we need to be able to acknowledge that great truth of historiography, which is that there are so many things we just can't know. In researching history our goal is essentially to develop assumptions based on the evidence available to us—I hesitate to even use the phrase "draw conclusions" because that suggests arriving at a level of certainty we will unfortunately never be able to have. So, you know, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that, like, the real Alexander Hamilton was likely what we would consider bisexual nowadays, or something like that. But I also wouldn't say that we could claim with 100% certainty that he was or that he wasn't. As for the fictional interpretation of him from the musical, yeah, whatever, that's a character, you're free to interpret him how you wish as long as you're not equating him with the actual figure. We can't necessarily, for example, impose headcanons from the musical onto our perceptions of the real people.

On a tangentially related note I also feel that we tend to have an obsession with "relatability" in characters, and historical figures as an extension of that. As a whole we could stand to learn more about how to love both characters and people without having to relate to them. Which is not to say you can't love them for that, but... we also don't need to be going out of our ways to interpret them as being relatable to us in order to love them, which is where the problem lies. That's where this problematic lack of actual history comes from. In the same ways that you don't need to, and probably shouldn't, endorse all their opinions, you don't need to relate to them in every way in order to love them as a historical figure. Love is a complicated thing and I am frankly thankful that it is.

Anyway, this is getting very long. My main point is that history and fandom can coexist, but they call for different treatments and shouldn't ever be equated. I'm not specifically condemning anyone—as I said, I think most of it is well-intentioned interest that gets a little out of hand. I've been guilty of it myself before and I don't want anyone to assume that I think I'm "above" it; I just try to be hyper-aware of it. I love that people discover interests in history through fandom, I just think being mindful is absolutely imperative when you're engaging with it. You can, and should, love history—just be careful that you're not bending the truth in order to do that.

[evarcana]

Ev’s Homeland Lore

Trivia

Zadith - the country’s name might be a reference to Egyptian alchemist known in Latin as Senior Zadith. [tumblr likes to delete my external links but it’s on wiki]

Language - Zadithi, but demonym and adjective - Zadithian. No, I don’t know why

Cyrenice - the city’s name is created by combining names of two Ancient Greek and later Roman cities located in North Africa- Cyrene (modern day eastern Libya) and Berenice (modern day Egypt).

Some visuals are here.

Zadith

Zadith is a relatively large country bordered by the vast mountain ranges from the north to south-east and the sea on another side. It includes a dozen of islands (most of which are too small to be marked on the map below) off its south-western coast.

The population seems to concentrate in the western and southern areas, with the rest of the country’s territory being covered by Fenekh Desert and difficult terrain of highlands where human settlements are very sparse. Although the conditions there are harsh and not suitable for agriculture (except few oases), the area is rich in natural resources: with salt lakes and rich deposits of ores, such as gold, iron, copper, silver, as well as gems, limestone and marble.

Most of the south-west of the country benefits from the mild meditarenian climate with hot, dry summers and short and rainy winters. Wild olive trees are abundant, and large areas of oak and cyprus savanna provide pasture to the flocks and herds of the local farmers. Various fruit trees, almonds, grapes, wheat and barley are historically grown in the region.

The country has five main cities which also function as capitals of the provinces:

Zoar - the official capital of the country and its political centre which lies in a lush river valley;

Cyrenice - ancient seaside city and port known as academic and cultural centre;

Admah - remote mystic city on the step of the Clouded Mountains;

El-Kochab - eight angled star-shaped city hidden behind tall stone walls, home to the largest market in the country;

Tarut - capital of the island Thera and the biggest port on Zadithian islands.

Although it is not as multicultural as Vesuvia, Zadith was formed by the union of the formerly independent countries and later expanded further absorbing other city states and tribes, all being quite diverse culturally and ethnically. (Ev’s and Asra’s families have completely different backgrounds). The administrative regions of the country seem to broadly reflect those differences.

Zadithi is a common and official language, however the secondary native languages are still widely used in informal settings in certain areas.

The country is ruled by two equal Viziers (monarchs coming from two unrelated dynasties), each holding a veto over the other’s actions. The powers of Viziers are held in check by Ephors (form of parliament with 5 representatives of 5 provinces, the way those representatives are chosen varies by province). Each province is ruled by local governor and Zadithian history knows many instances in which the governors acted independently, and even in opposition to the rulers.

Zadith is considered a technologically advanced nation: there are complex irrigation and water supply systems, firearms are available to elite military, medicine is well developed, great strides have been made in the fields of chemistry and metallurgy. Due to the local conditions and farming not being predominant, the country is unable to export much of its agricultural produce (with exception to oil, cotton, linen). Zadith is most known for its luxury goods and crafts, such as fine fabrics, clocks, ceramics, spices, glassware, iron, jewelry and raw precious metals and gems. In many countries the word Zadithian is synonymous with innovative design and intricate craftsmanship. Zadith is also a well known place for headhunting when foreign nobility or royalty require teachers, scholars or any other skilled professionals.

Magic and mysticism are very common in Zadith: almost every household’s door has a protective charm on it and magical rituals are an essential part of the country’s festivals and celebrations. Magical creatures such as genies and phoenixes still live in the rural areas and some of them serve the most powerful magicians coming from Fenekh Desert and Clouded Mountains.

Both magic and science are highly respected in Zadith, but ‘intellectuals’ as a class still stand below nobility, religious leaders, who hold the political power in the country, and are not as wealthy as most of the merchants and landowners. Although knowledge and education is highly praised in Zadith, academic institutions are not that well developed. Most people study through private home tuition and apprenticeships. Popular and well developed academic disciplines as mathematics, physics, chemistry, geography, history and languages.

Zadith has complex currency and measurement systems, public holidays and customs vary by province which does not make trade with the country very straightforward. It is also known for not the most effective administration and tedious bureaucracy: if a foreigner wants to open business or pay taxes in Zadith, they are most inevitable going to go through at least 5 officials, fill in 15 forms and wait long time because the office that they need is either closed for the afternoon break (it’s hot country, they have siesta) or all the right people are off work celebrating something in their hometowns.

Cyrenice

Pronounced as Ki-re-nay-is in Zadithi.

One of the oldest cities in Zadith, sometimes called the city of thousand statues: all built from the light coloured stone with a large commercial harbor overlooked by a walled tower. The city’s heart is the central district known as Agora which is the area of markets, public squares and plazas, where the people can formally assemble or gather for festivals, religious temples and shrines and the location of the main municipal buildings. Much smaller artistic and academic districts are also part of Agora. Residential districts are wrapped around the city centre from the north to south east. It looks like there is not much vegetation in the city with most of the gardens being hidden ininternal courtyards.

Cyrenice is known for holding many of the country’s artistic treasures and its vast ancient libraries which are open to the public. Throughout history those libraries attracted many scholars and academics, which allowed Cyrene to contribute to the intellectual life of the Zadithians, mostly through its famous historians, philosophers and mathematicians. One of the city’s attractions is the annual festival when the scholars finally leave the walls of the libraries and their faculties and compete in sports.

Alchemy

The concept of transmutation of base materials into noble metals is not central in Zadithian alchemy - they have plenty of gold without it. Alchemy is not focused on any particular type of science or magic, it is rather broad concept of combining both in various proportions: there are alchemists focused on medicine, physics, mechanics, chemistry, geology and astronomy and so on. Various enhanced crafting like creating magical items for practical use, also sometimes being considered as part of the alchemy.

It is not a new concept is Zadith and there is an ongoing debate on how it originated. Some say that alchemy was developed out of the practical necessity with magicians applying scientific principles to enhance their spells and scientists using magic to achieve faster results, some say it was purely academic discipline which found its practical application.

Much like scientists, alchemists are very proud and protective of their work. They use secret languages and codes to protect their research and notes and some are in the fierce competition with each other.

Alchemy is generally considered to be niche and complex discipline and there are way less alchemists than magicians.