#hare ‘meta’

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Howdy, friend, have you heard the cut dialogue (Rogier's part is at 2:48) for 'dreambrew'? We have Stratek to thank for this gem.

Rogier's dialogue offers insight into his personality, namely his facade. If the Tarnished offers the dreambrew to Rogier after he becomes afflicted by Deathblight, he tersely says, "No, thank you. I don't need your pity." Then he catches himself, saying, "...Sorry. You were only trying to be nice. It would be my pleasure to take it."

I honestly kind of hesitate to call Rogier's affability a facade, implying a manipulative motive, but I would not go so far as to say it isn't something of a pretense. Concealing his "anger, grief, regret, [and] fear" may be his way of grasping for control, to keep intact the man he was before.

Our Tarnished becomes dear to Rogier, and Fia glimpses that bond ("[D]ear Rogier began to weep as he spoke..."/"I heard that you lent a hand to dear Rogier. He seemed positively elated."/"You truly are a champion. To dear Rogier, and myself, too."). He becomes very attached to us, though he holds himself back and only shares his elation in private with Fia. He is ""abed"" with her, so maybe his inhibitions slacken during that time.

Rogier, *clenches fist* accept our friendship.

I had not seen this before. Holy shit. Sorry for the late reply, but I ended up writing an essay about this, whoops. I’ve tried to segment my thoughts here into semi-coherent segments. Read at your own peril, I suppose.

First, I’ll preface with this:

This game doesn’t have NPC models that emote facially, which is a major factor our brains use to interpret meaning. Without it, the interpretations available to us about these characters are innumerable—I’ll give you mine, but there’s a whole lot more out there. There’s a good chance what I get from this game isn’t gonna fit perfectly into what anyone else will get, and that’s half the fun. 

(In Rogier’s case, I think having facial expression would be wildly helpful in figuring him out—particularly in the discrepancies between what he says versus the look on his face as he says it. But alas. It’s not in the cards for us. Life goes on.)

Now. Back to your regularly scheduled programming of “Madwoman Screams Into the Void Over Pixels, Part 48478456”

[1: IS THE FACADE MANIPULATION? ]

I don’t think Rogier’s cordiality is manipulative either—at least, not intentionally so. I think he just doesn’t like to rock the boat. In terms of social interactions, he takes the path of least resistance: saying whatever the situation calls for to keep that pleasant, distant civility that he seems to work best in. (The most obvious example of this being his line about “telling a good lie when I need to” in reference to keeping D in the dark about his aims.)

Although Rogier conceals much of his true feelings and self, I wouldn’t characterize him as maliciously deceitful. But I would say there are times where—despite his good intentions—his facade crosses the line from “politeness” into the more dubious territory of “lying by omission,” or even just plain lying.

(I think to him, there are times when the ends justify the means. But that’s another post.)

[ 2: WHY THE FACADE? ]

Now, this facade does help ingratiate him to others, and presumably helps grease the wheels on this whole “exploration of death” business, but I don’t think that’s why he does it. 

If I had to hazard a guess: He’s got a strong aversion to emotional vulnerability, plain and simple. 

According to his set:  “Rogier spent his entire life behaving with utter detachment. No one noticed the anger, grief, regret, or fear that existed along with it.”

“His entire life.” So it’s an aversion that seems to have long predated his interactions with the Tarnished, or even his time in The Lands Between as a whole. (He does mention first coming to TLB in his initial interaction, implying he’s from elsewhere. Most Tarnished seem to be outsiders, coming to TLB only after rising from death, according to Miyazaki.)

(Image from this post by yournextflame)

I think what you said—that Rogier conceals his emotions and clings to decorum/indifference as a way of grasping for control—is right on the money. 

[ 3: CONTROL OVER WHAT?]

Rogier is plagued by “anger, grief, regret, and fear. Those are all very strong emotions that, when expressed, aren’t usually done so subtly. For him to have control over his demeanor is for him to have control over himself. 

I’m gonna go out on a limb and speak from personal experience here: keeping that tempest inside feels vital to keeping it from wreaking havoc—especially on the things closest to you. But eventually, it gets to a point where any (conspicuous, non-casual) expression of emotion can feel like losing control. A breach in the dam, if you will. A little lets a lot out.

(I’d wager there’s a strong connection between him “keeping the mask on” and “dignity” in his mind.)

But keeping your cool that much, for that long, is alienating. Which eventually changes the homeostasis that you want to maintain:

“I can’t let them see me break,” (A momentary slip, embarrassing, but can be recovered from)

Turns into:

“I can’t let them get close enough to see how broken I am.” (A permanent, shameful state of being.)

Under that mindset of the latter, the new imperative is to keep people from being close at all. It demands “utter detachment,” if you will. 

[ Quick Aside: ] Obviously, the two examples above are cognitive distortions. But the emotional impact of those thoughts real. Consider how saying “ha, that was foolish of me” is much easier to bounce back from than saying “I am stupid.” The wording, over time, can change the way you see yourself, which in turn can alter your behavior. It’s a tough loop to be stuck in.

It’s worth noting that, in the long run, this kind of detachment can actually weaken the barriers that you desperately feel like you need to maintain.

Eventually, any closeness with anyone is just begging for emotional catastrophe. (“If anyone comes close to me, I will break.”) 

I think his relations with Fia (whatever they are) only serves to emphasize this. But more on that later.

[ 4: HOW THE CUT DIALOGUE FITS INTO THIS ]

"...Sorry. You were only trying to be nice.”

The delivery of that line is what stands out to me—when I first heard it, it didn’t sound like that was a good thing in his eyes. Which I think given the above, makes sense. The Tarnished’s kindness has serious potential to upend the delicate balance that he’s worked so hard to maintain. 

(Perceived kindness, I should say. The Dreambrew was supposedly meant to allow the player to see the secrets of the one who drinks it.) 

“It would be my pleasure to take it."

This line sounds like he’s giving a lot of effort to be polite and gratuitous, but I’m inclined to think there’s more facade here than truth. Maybe to other people it sounds like genuine appreciation, but in all honesty, it sounds like someone switching into Customer Service voice to me. 

But it’s like I said: there’s many possible interpretations. Have a few:

“This is a pity-gift, and this well-intentioned Tarnished is getting on my nerves.” 

“This might not be a pity-gift, and that is unfathomable to me. This well-intentioned Tarnished is growing on me and THAT’S getting on my nerves.”

“I was wrong to dismiss this as a pity-gift, and the kind gesture of this well-intentioned Tarnished is genuinely moving to me.”

Or, it’s not that complicated, and the tone is just a result of his general worsening condition. Reader’s pick. 

I will say, depending on how much the player has done for him at the time of giving him the Dreambrew, I think there’s a decent argument for the middle. As in, the distance is getting harder to maintain on account of his growing affinity/respect/etc for the Tarnished.

(I suppose it would be nice for it to be the 3rd one—just a genuine, earnest appreciation, accepting of friendship—but I’m… cynical. That’s not to say the Tarnished doesn’t break the ice with him—I think they definitely do break a fair amount of it. I just think some habits are very hard to unlearn.)

[ 5: FIA’S LINES ABOUT ROGIER ]

Fia, after Rogier is injured: “My dear... Have you ever heard of black knifeprints? Dear Rogier likes to talk of it when abed… […] These grand affairs are hardly my forté… But dear Rogier began to weep as he spoke… In truth I've heard tell from someone else, about the black knifeprints that fascinate dear Rogier so.”

Fia, after the Knifeprint is given to Rogier: "I heard that you lent a hand to dear Rogier. He seemed positively elated. You truly are a champion. To dear Rogier, and myself, too."

Oh boy. There sure are a lot of implications there! 

I have a LOT of thoughts on these implications. I’ll post about those separately, once I get my thoughts on the matter wrangled into something coherent. In the meantime, let me try to break down my thoughts on the above lines specifically. 

“You truly are a champion. To dear Rogier, and myself, too."

Like I said, I’m cynical. I’ve always taken that line about being a “champion” to them both as like, Fia being flattering. Not lying—because even when she tricks the player into setting up the circumstances for D’s death, she never outright lies. (“[...] It must have a special place in the owner's heart.”) 

I always imagined she had ulterior motives there, even if she was speaking truthfully. 

I saw it like this: the player helped Rogier, which benefits Fia, if she can get the cursemark from him somehow. So her high praise seemed, to me, a way to keep the player doing what they’re doing. This isn’t anything I have evidence for though, just the impression I got.

I do think that Fia knows Rogier well enough to speak to how much the Knifeprint meant to him. He might not ever intend to get too sappy with the Tarnished about it, but Fia knows him well enough to feel like she can speak on his behalf.

(Is that something he would’ve wanted her to do? Eh. I’d imagine not, personally.) 

Now, did Rogier ever directly say to Fia that the Tarnished was a champion? Or was it just something Fia knew on account of knowing Rogier’s character/dedication to his goals? 

I always assumed it was the latter. But there’s plenty of possibility he’s closer to Fia than he ever is with the player, especially when he knows he’s nearing his end. (The fact that he mentions D, but never Fia, makes me question that though. But he is a very private guy, so it’s anyone’s guess.)

“Dear Rogier likes to talk of it when abed [...] But dear Rogier began to weep as he spoke…”

Remember what I said earlier about isolation weakening emotional barriers, setting the stage for complete Emotional Catastrophe? 

Fia got close, and he fucking broke. It probably didn’t take much on her part either. A little prodding and few well-placed questions, and the house of cards came down spectacularly.

I can’t imagine his emotional expression there was voluntary, given the premises of this insane thesis. 

Additionally, this does mesh well with the fact that he never mentions anything about Fia to the player, despite the cursemark that they both seek. (And the fact that Fia says plenty about him.) It’s probably a sore spot.

[ Quick Aside: ] What was Rogier doing with Fia, if he’s so detached to everyone? Well, I imagine he had ulterior motives of his own, what with him exploring Death and all that. He was expecting to smoothtalk his way into some lead on the cursemark’s location, probably. Free embrace? Sure, why not. But he wasn’t going in there expecting to have any kind of real connection with Fia. So when she found the chink in his armor, it was a break he REALLY wasn’t ready for.

[ FINAL THOUGHTS ]

TLDR: Rogier's internal state can be roughly summed up as:

He's allergic to emotional vulnerability, and the facade he wears is more a reflex now than an active choice. By the end, the balance is getting very hard for him to maintain. Oof. 

So yeah. Cut dialogue. It does shed a little light on the elusive inner workings of the Roundtable Hold’s second biggest nerd. (Certainly the more tolerable one. lol.)

Also. What was the secret he keeps, Fromsoft? Don’t tease me like this, I have an action/adventure canon-divergence longfic to write! You can’t do this to me Fromsoft!!!

Loreminers please please please k;sdjfkadsfjs

(Or maybe don’t. I’m too deep into drafting Still Waters. If my characterization gets majorly canonballed, I think I'd rather just quit lmao) Also, Also.  On first listening, that “I’ll try anything once!” line fucking sent me for some reason, I was not expecting that. 10/10 game of the year

Okay, okay. Now I’m done. To anyone who’s made it this far, have a dog gif? I don’t know how to end posts. 

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Quick Thought On The Erdtree

I always thought it was interesting that the Erdtree was heralded for its majestic yellow color. In plants, yellow is not a great color to be.

Chlorosis, as defined by Wikipedia: A condition in which leaves produce insufficient chlorophyll. As chlorophyll is responsible for the green color of leaves, chlorotic leaves are pale, yellow, or yellow-white.

As in, yellow is a very sickly color for a plant’s leaves to be exhibiting. So the fact that so much of The Lands Between is yellow—to me—is a great visual way to instantly convey that it is in decline.

(…Or you could go the “Erdtree is a parasite route”—as in, the Erdtree needs no chlorophyll because it doesn’t need to produce its own energy. It siphons off the lands, it’s roots taking from burials and preventing the return of nutrients to the soil. Which in turn eventually began to starve out the rest of the ecosystem. Hence the yellow—a yellow that only grows more noticeable the closer to the Erdtree one gets.)

(Or it even could be using its roots to take resources from other plants directly. They do spread all throughout the lands, after all. Either way, something to think on for that particular interpretation. I’m more partial to the “in decline” theory myself.)

Anyway. Just a fun little botany application.