#honestly though this side of things have never been as bad as the laios side but i had to like close the app and go make this

[fumifooms]

Laios Touden and autism; admiring the non-human

Do you think people exaggerate when they scream about Laios being autistic? Do you feel like it’s weird that so many people including autistics are so set on Laios, the problematic (but incredible and kind) king TM, being the most autistic that has ever autisticed? Why do we cheer on autistic people wanting to be monsters?? Isn’t that weird?

Well, of course it depends on the way it’s done, it can be done quite offensively, but long story short Kui blew it out of the park. The thing is, autistic people really do like monsters and animals and robots. Nonhuman does not mean subhuman, it just means Other. Feeling a connection with them has been shown to be an extremely common autistic experience for that very reason.

Because some people don’t understand why we autistic Tumblr Laios stans cheer “autism! Autism!” whenever he talks about monsters and feeling alienated to humans so! Here’s a post about how yes even research papers are analyzing the special connection we form with animals. I’m not even joking but Laios Touden & the mass cries of relatability with autistic people he gets and all the love for him could be used as study material and evidence for future papers because the link is that strong. Oh also I think it’s notable that being autistic and undiagnosed vs diagnosed makes a huge difference. In my experience as someone who was undiagnosed up until 18, it’s even more alienating to not know that there’s a reason why you’re different, being gaslit that you’re ‘normal’ and you just need to try harder and get with the program, etc. Personally when getting diagnosed I went through the 5 stages of grief because the thought of having been fundamentally different all your life (a difference which you will never be able to change) and mistreated for it when you weren’t “wrong” all along makes you unload all the anger and sadness and loneliness and sheer trauma you’ve built up over time. Like it’s world shattering.

So! Back to seeing dogs as family. Also I implore you to value experiential evidence when it comes to autism and other neurodivergences because brains are complicated and neurotypicals not being able to understand us well even with scientific research is like, a whole thing even though we’re right there speaking about how we feel and being right every time because the topic is literally us and how we experience the world. 

Disclaimer for this whole post that, of course, no group is a monolith and everyone has different experiences or can diverge from the norm of the group, and that doesn’t diminish the validity of either side! Like, I know autistic people who have trauma with dogs and hate them. But, trends do happen, and in this case... Autism is very “My experiences with humans make me feel dehumanized in a bad and lonely way so instead I’ll dehumanize myself in a good and inspiring way”.

“I was treated like a failed human my entire life and you’re surprised that my response was to become a dog.” -Patricia Taxxon

It’s literally well recorded that autistic people relate to animals more than humans globally. With this post, besides spreading autistic Laios truthism and explaining why the portrayal hits so deep for so many,  I want to show in what way this is a very specific experience and not looking at his character through an autistic lense really misses a lot of why he’s everything that he is. (Tacking allegedly onto here for legal reasons, different interpretations are valid etc etc /gen). This honestly isn’t super long though.

To define an important term, anthropomorphism in the studies and in this post means to attribute human traits to the nonhuman, which not only includes anthro furry designs but also animals irl, inanimate objects, and animated media as opposed to live action, to humanize them and empathize with them.

Paper: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/aut.2019.0027 

“Dogs taught me how to hunt and socialize and work in groups”, Laios having internalized body language... So real so real. I, too, make a great dog impression. And I want to emphase the part that it helps greatly develop a sense of emotions and relationships! For Laios, he didn’t get along with kids his age, it was him, Falin and the dogs against the world. Since it’s a group of dogs too, it taught him group dynamics and social hierarchies (like with Falin being considered as being below the dogs in authority according to the dogs rip), and the importance of group coordination when hunting.

For me, I cannot like, concisely explain just how much animals were important to me developmentally. I also grew up with dogs, but like I vividly remember encounters with like hamsters as well just radically shaping my understanding of boundaries, the importance of giving something space and the way you interact with them and respect their side of it. Unlike humans they don’t really mask how they feel, it’s direct cause-effect reaction and data gathering. There are no words involved, so the focus on having a perfect phrasing and tone is gone, leaving just pure interactions. 

There’s also no reason to mask how you feel either, and you don’t have to feel silly over wanting to form a connection and it showing, what, is the dog gonna laugh at you because you obviously want to make friends with it? Toshiro or Kabru might, but dogs and cats will just tell you to fuck off and leave it there worst case scenario. I often say that I think one reason Marcille is special to Laios and he feels comfortable around her is because she emotes INTENSELY, she gestures, she puts her whole body into it, her facial expressions are pretty exaggerated and her ears even emote too- like with a dog’s ears!

I think there’s def also things to be said about how he gravitated towards Izutsumi at first, all excited, was eager to sleep in the same bed as her, but in the Izutsumi sleep rating chart we see they really just casual and chill so it’s not a Laios talking to Shuro deep into the night situation just a “I like sleeping besides animals” situation and that is enough to hype him up. I love how he pet her in the extra about why Chil let her sleep with him too. He’s just so transparently eager to befriend her, even if in the end they weren’t all that compatible and he accepted that.

There are honestly so many examples I could give for this. Like Grandin the famous cow lady.

More about autism & empathy:

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/double-empathy-explained/ (Also mentions a study in which groups of autistic, allistic then a mixed group played a game of telephone and both singular groups had similar levels of information retention, but the mixed group was significantly worse. As an autistic person yeah duh, obviously autistic people are different from one another and can have plenty of interpersonal issues, but communicating with other neurodivergent people feels pretty intuitive and straightforward and comfortable. One of the reasons why neurodivergent people tend to naturally gravitate towards each other I suppose.) 

^ Paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5932358/  For good, extensive summary of why we relate to animals so much you can go to the “anthromorphizing and asd” section of the paper. This paper extends to our widespread liking of cartoons and robots as well. Ok so this is a whole thing I won’t get into here but this is a big reason why a lot of autistic people are agender leaning as well. Genders and queerness in general is a lot about social constructs, and being queer is being marginal to these, not fitting into boxes or challenging those social norms and conventions. Queerplatonic relationships are a great example of this, where the framework of the relationship is platonic but the intangible nature of what it is exactly is the point, not familial not anything but everything at once too, just adoration, I like to say having pets is a bit like it as well, bc obvi it’s not romantic and often not fully familial, very platonic but also sooo much cuddling and adoration and kissing and whatnot that you wouldn’t typically do with a friend or family member. I’ll talk about qpr and labels another day though.

I got carried away but queerness in Dunmeshi is something I 100% want to make a big post on one day. Experiencing the world with different guidelines and not registering things to have the same boxes, sigh. Personally I also relate to Laios on a gender level, “cis by default because I don’t care all that much but if I were to dig deeper I’m probably otherkin and I want to be socially associated with traits of monsters and animalistic rather than man/woman” sighh hard to be a cryptid in this day and age. I wish we had a term like furry but for monsters, I want to be in the fantasy or folk tale genre ty, like changelings. Goshh changelings... You know, the irl myth where people said their neurodivergent kids were fairies’ children instead of human. Diminished physical sense of self means I see myself as some unknowable black  void aesthetic wise, but like in a way that simultaneously makes me feel seen. Like becoming a monster, losing your sense of self but also somehow just being simplified and seen for what you are, it’s weird to try and explain. This post is more about relating to the nonhuman than about seeing yourself as such, but like connect the dots right, that IS an important point of Laios’ character. It’s because our brains literally work different than allistics which makes us feel as other, but also because of social ostracization and functioning in a different way than society at large, living in the margin of society, being weird and non-conforming.

Meanwhile, animals and social norms... Like ok, showing your neck and rolling on the ground to show that you’re friendly and harmless and play biting might not be proper. But have you considered that it’s also fun and feels very intuitive. Play with a dog in the dog’s way I promise it is so nice and freeing. Play tug of war and growl back when they growl. Hiss at your cat to tell them they do something wrong, engage with them on their level.

Autism made social life hard, but it made animals easy. Do you have anyyy idea how good it feels to mask all day every day and feel constantly misunderstood or like you’re doing a performance but then you can just, drop all of that in the company of animals and they understand you. They understand you. You form an understanding and rapport so easily.

And this whole thing with Laios is so explicit too, with the Winged Lion saying “You’re sick and tired of the human world”. Notice the choice of words. Sick and tired of the human world. Exhausted from the constraints, sick of the mind games. It really isn’t as much about loving monsters as it is about loving the nonhuman. Relating to them because you feel that you can actually understand how they work and think, and feeling like they could understand you back as well. Animals are safe.

Like I could go on about how Laios admiring even just demi-humans like orcs is because they’re socially seen as non-humans more than any true physical thing, that they’re not bound by human society and its rules and live with their own lifestyle. But it would deal myself 1000 points of psychic damage and I am not ready to cry today. It’s idealization 100%, and like, Laios DOES want to be treated as human, to be valued, but it feels like an unreachable thing meanwhile becoming a monster is instant gratification and freedom and a sense that now no one will be able to hurt you in a way that reaches you, never again shall you be defenseless, and then if people dehumanize you then that only strengthens your sense of identity as a monster and UGHH ugh ugh.

And like. This post is a mess at this point but if you want to kinda delve into the more “why” then I recommend this Patricia Taxxon video essay. It starts out on a very different topic, but it’s all about autism and finding comfort in the inhuman. Long story short is othering made us like this also animals are just simpler to intuitively get along with.

So when I post this

I mean it. I really mean it when I say he’s me. I have never felt so seen. So many conflicting emotions all wrapped so concisely yet so intangibly woven into the whole storyline so subtly. 

Not being depicted as a monster of an human being for feeling/having felt that way?? The manga understands you. The world can understand you. Other humans can understand you. You can bond with them. You can. And I think that’s a big part of Dungeon Meshi too- Laios opening up to others about how he really is and his interests, and all the bumps on the way but how it was the only way to truly get to know each other and bond. With the climax being Laios confronting head on his complex with monsters and humans, and his monster-loving side and animalistic side being exactly what saves the whole world, what saves humanity. Because Laios does value his friends, does think humanity has beautiful sides to it, he wants to help it thrive and eat and become more accepting, carving out a kingdom for misfits and demi-humans. At the end of it, transforming into a monster and being free is a daydream fantasy, and the reality of it is that Laios does belong in the world as he is, and does receive and give out love.

If you enjoyed this you’ll probably like some of my other Laios analysis!  Here’s an analysis of his succubus and what it says about his relationships with other humans. And here’s an analysis about his relationship with Shuro from his perspective.

[indirigo]

My take on the Toshiro/ Laios fight

I just wanna share my opinions bc I see a lot of people here boiling it down to oh Toshiro (bc that’s his name btw not Shuro) big meanie and neurotypical hates Laios bc he’s autistic, which completely decontextualises the fight and Toshiro’s background.

Yes, I understand why people are pissed at Toshiro ,and as an autistic person who’s been alienated my whole life what he said to Laios did hit very hard, at first I was pissed too so don’t mistake me as someone completely siding with one or the other.

Also I’m a firm believer that Toshiro is autistic as well FIGHT ME.

Toshiro is first of all very sleep deprived, hasn’t eaten, and shocked not only from seeing Falin turned into a chimera but also discovering that her brother allowed dark magic to be used on her; Toshiro grew up in country with different social norms, AND in a very strict household with a not so nice father, he was taught since his childhood to suppress his emotions (mask) and not complain. This means that he will not complain about something until he has had enough and his frustration spills out unhealthily.

Toshiro ever since joining the group has been called Shuro by Laios even tho that’s not his name, and never knew how to deal with Laios’ excitement towards him (bc again he was taught to suppress his feelings).

Laios on the other hand almost does not mask at all! (Which good for him honestly) and yes he is socially awkward and has bad timing but guess what TOSHIRO IS ALSO LIKE THIS (he literally proposed to Falin after not even telling her that he likes her) Toshiro sees himself in Laios but also sees Laios as all those things he was taught were WRONG; at the end of the fight Toshiro realised he was ENVIOUS of Laios, and I feel like people blatantly ignore it.

This is also connected imo on why he “hated” Laios but fell in love with Falin even though they have similar traits (I wanna make this point clear also bc I see a lot of people treating Laios and Falin like they’re the same person, they’re not) , Falin, like Toshiro, is way more reserved and imo he projected a lot of himself on her.

Now onto the other side, Laios is right, Toshiro should’ve told him more clearly that he thought he was annoying and interrupting him and Falin a lot of the time, bc Laios had no way of knowing as he cannot read Toshiro’s mind. And that’s just the truth.

So in conclusion what I mean to say is that yes Toshiro was mean to Laios during that fight , but the argument was so much more nuanced than how some of the readers interpreted it. It’s ok to recognise that Laios also made mistakes and we know he is extremely intelligent, let’s not dumb him down for the sake of the argument.

And saying that you want Toshiro dead over this is a bit extreme😭 and I say it as someone who got the Laios treatment multiple times.

That’s all, thank you for reading🌷

[room-surprise]

Hi there, I’ve been reading your Kabumisu fic (SMHTGOTG) and I am obsessed!!! I love the way you interpret Kabru’s and Mithrun’s personalities and adapt their stories to a modern world. I can’t wait to see more of Mithrun’s past and them meeting the Laios gang!

I truly feel like you gave them the love and depth that Ryoko Kui wants for her characters. I really appreciate it after seeing more one-dimensional takes about Dunmeshi characters on twitter (of course it’s twitter) and even tumblr as the series got more popular.

Kui put so much effort in creating a beautiful and heartfelt story, trying her best to reflect complicated social issues through fantasy setting, showing how characters with varied backgrounds/ races overcome prejudices, grow to respect each other’s differences and how human they all are deep down, all while encouraging fans to care for their health, but all some people zoom in is which race is the most obviously problematic, which race is allowed a free pass to hold prejudice, which character is not that great actually did you not know they were racist at some point in the story??? (Growth? Never heard of her. Ignorance? That’s a CRiME!)

Ironically, all of that just reminds me of how performative the canaries are when they act all shocked and offended about Mithrun stating the slur the elves used to say all the time

(So sorry for the long rant 😭, I just really appreciate your fic and the analysis your made about Dunmeshi among the increasing bad faith takes)

OMG... Anon thank you so much for writing to me! This absolutely made my day. You're very sweet. Honestly I have the best readers in the world you're all paying such close attention to what I write and picking up what I put down, and that makes me so so so happy 😭

The #1 thing I ask myself while I'm planning and writing my fics is "does this feel like something that would happen in Dungeon Meshi?" And I guess I'm doing an OK job of that because people keep telling me what my writing feels like :D

And you are 100% right, there's always been bad takes and oversimplifications of the world and characters of Dungeon Meshi like what you're describing, but since it's getting more popular that means more people are talking about it, which unfortunately means, statistically, that there are going to be more bad takes…

On the positive side, there's also been lots of wonderful new fic and art that people are making, and lots of good takes too! Just a bit frustrating to wade through the swamp of bad stuff to get to the treasure.

Gotta just try hard to stay positive and focus on making good stuff you love, and not stressing about stuff that's bad and makes you upset.

And never apologize for writing me a long message!!! I agree with everything you said and I was so happy to read this when I got up this morning, so thank you for taking the time to write to me. You can write or DM me any time (though obviously you can't stay anon if you're DMing me lol)

[recentanimenews]

Bookshelf Briefs 11/28/17

It’s a cornucopia of briefs!

Ace of the Diamond, Vol. 6 | By Yuji Terjima | Kodansha Comics (digital only) – Training camp continues, and the coach has arranged for some practice games right afterwards, the better to gauge how well the first years play when exhausted. For Furuya, the answer is initially “not well,” but he never loses his determination, and once he swallows his pride and asks Miyuki for advice, finally internalizes the truth that, at Seido, he’s got teammates who are going to back him up, even if the batter does manage to get a hit. Eijun’s fun and everything, but Furuya is not your typical shounen protagonist, and I’m pleased that he’s getting his share of attention. I also liked that the boys hang out some with varsity teammates we’ve barely glimpsed, and we learn how awesome the captain is. I am already relishing the thought of future marathon rereads of this series. It’s a keeper for sure. – Michelle Smith

Cells at Work!, Vol. 5 | By Akane Shimizu | Kodansha Comics – Once again, Red Blood Cell is absent from this volume except a brief cameo. This allows us to focus our attention on the ‘normal cell’ from prior volumes, who still has a tendency to do dumb things on impulse. Fortunately, the cute adorable bacteria he’s harboring in his room are the GOOD kind of bacteria. Unfortunately, his attempt to get them to where they can do good is thwarted by a host of crises from which White Blood Cell and company must rescue him, most notably the return of Cancer Cell, who brings back the ethical ambiguity to the series as he asks essentially “are the needs of the many less important than the needs of the one?” The one being the body. This was a lot of fun. – Sean Gaffney

Delicious in Dungeon, Vol. 3 | By Ryoko Kui| Yen Press – The cast expands a bit in this third volume. We see one of our team’s old comrades, who left them due to actually wanting to get paid, and the complicated relationship she has with them, particularly Marcille, and it’s made clear she’s not a bad guy—everyone has their own needs and drives. As for Marcille, we also get a flashback to her school days, which shows how she met Laios’ sister (still being digested by a dragon, if you recall), which is rather cute. And of course more ridiculously gross yet amusing monster recipes. And plenty of humor, as it turns out tentacles can be peeled sort of like bananas. Still good, though I’d like to get the sister rescued or declare her dead. – Sean Gaffney

The Full-Time Wife Escapist, Vol. 6 | By Tsunami Umino | Kodansha Comics (digital only) – It was inevitable that Mikuri and Hiramasa would discover that they are in love with each other, but I am still kind of surprised that it actually happened. It’s lovely to see him grinning like a doofus at the office after an evening of fooling around, but I appreciate that the transition into a real marriage isn’t exactly going to be smooth. Mikuri is worried, for example, that she’ll be expected to do the same amount of work for free, while Hiramasa worries about his waning sex drive. Somehow I doubt we’ll ever see the latter issue addressed Everyone’s Getting Married! I also really enjoyed the scenes where Mikuri’s aunt and Kazami get to know each other better—I wholeheartedly approve of them hooking up! – Michelle Smith

Haikyu!!, Vol. 17 | By Haruichi Furudate | Viz Media – And so our heroes pull it off, and get to advance, while Aoba Johsai has to suffer an ignominious defeat. This is done in the best possible shonen way, with lots of noble tears and resolve to get even stronger. The cliches don’t FEEL like cliches—the author is adept at making this feel fresh even when you know where every plot beat is going to be. And so it’s on to the finals, and I suspect this game may drag on a while, as it’s a best 3-sets-of-5 game. Their opponent is Shiratorizawa, who I’m sure we’ll find out more about as we move on, but who clearly have one player who’s REALLY good, and the volume ends with our heroes down by quite a bit. I think they’ll come back, though. Just a hunch. – Sean Gaffney

Hana & Hina After School, Vol. 3 | By Milk Morinaga | Seven Seas – This turns out to be the final volume, and honestly you get the sense it was cut a bit short—the last half feels rushed. Of course, considering all we were getting before that was a slow-burning pile of angst, it might be best that it got the push. Morinaga Milk has always been better at fluffy than angsty, so it comes as something of a relief when our two heroines finally get over the whole “is it just me? Did she mean it when she said she’s not that way?” drama and get together (in all respects—as with previous MM titles, there’s a brief, not-that-explicit sex scene here). In the end, this was a cute read, but I’ve seen better yuri from this author. – Sean Gaffney

Horimiya, Vol. 9 | By Hero and Daisuke Hagiwara | Yen Press – Horimiya has always tried to be at least slightly more realistic than a lot of romance manga, and thus watching Yuki’s ongoing angst regarding her lies and deceit and how it’s impacting other people is particularly painful. I’m not really all that sure I want her to win here, even though the alternative will also suck. On the bright side, Hori and Morimiya are doing better than ever, and as Hori is forced to think about her future—something which she seemed to have given not a single thought to—but she realizes here that no matter what she does, she wants to be with Miyamura. This leads to a sort of adorable reverse proposal, which fits the general characterization. Still good, but I hope it’s wrapping up soon. – Sean Gaffney

JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders, Vol. 5 | By Hirohiko Araki | Viz Media And so, finally, JoJo’s has run up against my ability to get 500+ words out of each volume. Yes, this is the first volume to get a Brief rather than a full review, and I put the blame entirely on the rambling Road To Cairo plot that Araki has chosen to use this time around. Individual moments are as striking as ever—I felt the killer baby was more interesting as a killer within dreams than in the real world, and the surprise non-death of a character feels a bit cheap. But JoJo’s still has its bizarre visuals and grotesque violence, and as long as it keeps that up it should stay interesting, even if Jotaru continues to be the dullest Jo we’ve had to date. – Sean Gaffney

Kiss & White Lily for My Dearest Girl, Vol. 4 | By Canno | Yen Press – Most sports manga fail to show the heroes moving on to a professional career, with a few exceptions like Captain Tsubasa. In reality, a lot of sports careers end just the way we see Mizuki’s end here—she comes close to the Nationals, but doesn’t make it, and realizes that this is it, she has to stop doing track and decide on an actual career. There’s also her relationship with Moe, which may actually be hindering her for a spell—it’s gotten to the point where she forgets running was fun—but eventually proves stronger than both thought, and we get a proposal (of sorts) and a kiss. This is a bit stronger than Hana & Hina, even if it’s just as fluffy, and I’m pleased to see it continue. – Sean Gaffney

Log Horizon: The West Wind Brigade, Vol. 7 | By Koyuki and Mamare Touno | Yen Press – The comedy is kept to a minimum here, as we get the more dramatic parts of the third and fourth novel, intermixed with how it’s affecting the West Wind Brigade. Kawara’s on the cover, and we get a bit more insight into her character—basically, she’s an instinctual fighter but a bit of an idiot who got into the game because she wanted to be a shonen hero, and the West Wind Brigade was the only one that would take her in. It does also show off her strengths as well, though. That said, easily the most interesting part is the ending, where we get a surprise appearance by a seemingly insane Nureha, who’s met by a battle-crazy Soujiro. I want to see how this battle turns out. – Sean Gaffney

My Hero Academia, Vol. 10 | By Kohei Horikoshi | Viz Media – I appreciate that Horikoshi is willing to let Bakugo be a completely unlikable jerk, driven by rage and jealousy and every single negative emotion, and yet still show that he realizes the difference between good and evil—that he’s decided that he wants to be a HERO rather than a villain, even if that means going against what comes more naturally. It’s a terrific scene that really made me like him. On the flip side, the disguises used to infiltrate Evil HQ are hilarious, particularly Deku and Momo. The humor is needed, as this is something of a grim arc, especially with the arrival of a Bigger Bad towards the end. This volume shows off everything that has made this the hot new Jump title. – Sean Gaffney

Nisekoi: False Love, Vol. 24 | By Naoshi Komi | Viz Media – Even though it’s obvious Onodera’s going to lose, give credit to the author for not making it easy. She and Raku have really developed a close relationship, and even if it’s not romantic I hope they can stay friends. More to the point, the fact that Onodera is willing to help Raku track down Chitoge by FLYING TO AMERICA with him (because Chitoge has, like many tsundere heroines in denial, literally run halfway across the Earth to escape her love issues) shows off her truly ridiculous kindness. There’s the last popularity poll in this book, and Chitoge and Onodera are separated by barely 100 votes. That’s impressive for a harem title. In any case, it wraps up next time, so keep reading. – Sean Gaffney

One Piece, Vol. 84 | By Eiichiro Oda | VIZ Media – It’s been a while since we had a volume that focused on further sad backstory for one of the Straw Hat crew, but that’s what we get here, with many hard-to-read scenes about Sanji’s abuse at the hands of his family, intercut with a silly fight in which Luffy defeats a bunch of cracker soldiers by eating them. Because Big Mom is threatening to kill Chef Zeff if he doesn’t comply, Sanji is forced to both insult and attack Luffy in an attempt to get him to abort the rescue, but of course this doesn’t work. In addition to this riveting drama, there’s also the question of whether Pudding (Sanji’s seemingly sympathetic bride-to-be) can actually be trusted, more information about the ponegliffs (yay!), and a glimpse at the unintended consequences of toppling Doflamingo. Plus, Brook actually gets something important to do! This series is still excellent. – Michelle Smith

By: Michelle Smith