#hope is a brilliant character don't you dare try telling me otherwise

[spoiler-alert-andabunchofnumbers]

A Long Rant About Why Hope and Snow’s Arc is Brilliant

"You've changed, haven't you? Seems like you've toughened up."

"I'm a l'Cie. I had to."

"The only ones that ought to be fighting the army…are us dumb grown-ups."

"You think it's stupid to fight?"

"It is if you get killed. Anyway, just lay low. Let the dummies duke it out. The army's no match for NORA, right?"

"He was…he was smiling!"

Let's talk about this. LET US TALK ABOUT THIS!

In just one scene this game managed to make you believe that Hope and Snow are going to implode.

Right before this, when Hope was with Lightning, Hope was on the path to healing. He'd confessed what happened to his mother - for the first time since the incident, I might add, - and how much he hates Snow. The Gapra Whitewood alone is amazing but let's stay focused.

Lightning and Hope are brilliant together, with Lightning seeing what her influence as a role model is doing to an innocent kid. She's a maternal figure, both to her sister and eventually to Hope, but she's been running from her failure to save and believe in her sister as well as losing her entire home and identity. She finally realizes that the warpath she's on is unhealthy and the wrong path for her. Maybe she'd succeed in toppling the Sanctum, maybe she wouldn't have, but an enemy and a goal are things she can kill and accomplish.

The only problem is Hope. When she gives him the advice that she herself is following, to control her emotions, find an end goal and block out everything else, she starts to see how unhealthy her choices are both physically and mentally. She's sent Hope on a warpath, and when she finally announces that "I made a mistake!", Hope is still left angry, thinking there's nothing left if he doesn't have anyone to fight. Hope is shouting at her "Then what battles do we fight? And against who?!"

When she finally convinces Hope to calm down, he says "I'm sorry, I messed up" and you can feel his anger slowly fading as he regains his reason. At the end of that section, Hope's final words are, "Snow believed Serah, didn't he?" That one line demonstrates how Hope is willing to see past his first impressions of Snow and listen to who he is as a person, that maybe Snow really was just trying to save everyone. Both Lightning and Hope together are on the path to forgiving Snow and healing for their own sake.

Then, the next scene happens. They're reminded of how little hope they have of surviving, how they're on the run, how Rosch reminds the army that they aren't people, they're targets. Lightning immediately volunteers to sacrifice herself if it will give Hope a chance to live and find himself in whatever time he has left - "You survive."

Snow was a bonus, since she doesn't want Hope with her while she takes on the whole army and draws their fire so Hope can get away, but leaving him with Snow is safer than bringing her with him. She chucks him at Snow saying "Take care of him", knowing Hope will be uncomfortable but he'll be protected. She likely didn't account for Fang following her and hadn't intended Hope to be left alone with Snow.

Fun bonus is that when Hope is thrown off of Shiva and the soldiers converge on him, Hope rises to his feet and is already in a battle stance. When Snow last saw this kid, he cowered at nothing but the hopelessness of their situation, much less a soldier aiming their weapon at him, but now Hope was fully ready to kick those guys' butts if Snow hadn't intervened. And so began the slow descent as Hope started seeing everything he hated in Snow - Snow automatically assumed he couldn't defend himself, that Snow needed to save the day.

Hope had begun to forgive Snow, hearing Lightning coming to the realization that he believed Serah when no one else did and believed in her when she was ready to give up because of her fate. Then Snow is back in his arrogant glory, treating Hope like a kid because he hasn't seen all the growth Hope has gone through. Lightning treated him like a kid until Odin happened and she started properly supporting him to grow stronger rather than just "babysitting" him. She talked to Hope like he was an adult with a little less life experience - which is how you should be treating a kid as smart as Hope.

Then the scene comes up.

But Snow keeps calling him "partner" in their battle quotes and taking charge when Hope clearly already knows what he's doing now thanks to Lightning.

Hope is a bit confused at where Snow's been and what he's been up to with a branch of the army trying to kill them, but he's passive aggressive at best. Just because he doesn't want to kill Snow anymore doesn't mean he has to like him. Snow does not get the hint, still seeing Hope as just a kid and he has a right to teen angst considering all he's been through.

"The only ones that ought to be fighting the army…are us dumb grown-ups."

From Snow's perspective: he's telling Hope that kids shouldn't have to go through such a horrible thing, to have the whole army training their guns on you and calling you nothing but a target. Hope shouldn't have to be running for his life, taking on the military that's supposed to be protecting citizens and kids like him. Adults are just dumb like that, getting ourselves into trouble. Kids should be smarter than that - be smarter than that, Hope.

From Hope's perspective: Snow just called any adult who tries to fight the army a fool - including his mother when she volunteered to help fight their way out of the Purge. She fought because Snow asked for volunteers (he knows but often forgets that her main reason for joining was to keep Hope safe; Snow hadn't even thought of asking for volunteers until a bunch of people asked to help them). He just called Nora a fool for fighting to save Hope’s life at Snow’s behest.

"You think it's stupid to fight?"

"It is if you get killed."

Whew we're just gonna stop right there mid-sentence. In those two sentences we managed to create two sides of a conversation that perfectly encapsulate the miscommunication between Hope and Snow that’s driving a 14-year-old kid into a murderous rage even after he'd begun a path to healing.

Snow just called adults stupid for fighting the army, then he goes and pushes it further by saying that it’s only really stupid if you get killed. From Snow's perspective, this is a perfectly reasonable thing to say. It helps no one if you run into battle and get killed - no matter if it's just your life on the line or if you have others you're trying to protect. The people you're trying to protect don't necessarily benefit from your sacrificing yourself by throwing yourself at the enemy in a desperate kamikaze, and Hope himself shouldn't just give up on his life even when the army has them outnumbered and they have no plan - he'll find hope to go forward, he should never just give up and go out in a blaze of rageful spite.

From Hope's perspective, that idiot just insulted his mother! He just called Nora stupid for fighting the army even though she had multiple good reasons to have volunteered - Snow asking for volunteers and putting civilians into the line of fire (even though they were already and Nora joined for Hope and it was entirely her choice). Then he calls her especially stupid because she got herself killed.

In essence, Snow just voiced the thoughts of everyone who hates on Nora's character in general. “She was a MOTHER, what was she DOING volunteering to FIGHT, “Moms are tough”? psssh she DIED, what an idiot.”

I was angry for Hope in that moment, man. I was ready to stab Snow too.

"Anyway, just lay low. Let the dummies duke it out. The army's no match for NORA, right?"

Ooof, and then we have the final line where Snow uses the name NORA as his acronym for "No Obligations, Rules, or Authority." As Lightning had told Hope in the Gapra Whitewood, (let me quote the datalog entry for that moment): “They wish to live without restrictions, she explains, though some might argue that what they really wish is to live without responsibility.” This means that Snow just used NORA in the context of ignoring the responsibility of those who he himself brought into the battle under his leadership. He was in charge of those volunteers, including Nora, but now he acts as though he’s forgotten all of the weight of their deaths that were directly or indirectly his fault.

So in conclusion, Snow just insulted Nora Estheim in three different ways in the span of one short conversation. Nice going, bud.

To be clear, it’s made very obvious in the beginning that Snow is absolutely crushed by the guilt of everyone who died under his command. Nora in particular has traumatized him because he blames himself for letting her fall out of his grip (see this post for that rant). Snow isn't a children's cartoon character telegraphing his every thought and the lesson you need to learn from him; he's repressing his feelings and he's very good at hiding it. He is brilliant at acting like he's happy and fine and running away from the guilt because if he let it crush him, more people would get hurt because he was too distracted and didn't protect them.

His breakdown when Hope presses him explains the final puzzle piece: he didn’t know how to possibly atone - so he just kept avoiding it.

“There is nothing that can make something like that right again. When someone’s dead, when someone’s gone, words are useless…I know! It’s all my fault! But I don’t know how to fix it! Where do you start? What do you say?”

When Hope finally wakes up, Snow has finally come to terms with his guilt and confesses it outright. It was his fault Nora died, he shouldn’t have said a lot of what he said before about words being useless, how he could never make up for someone dying so he needed to keep going.

“I thought if I couldn’t make up for it, then all the apologies in the world wouldn’t mean thing. So I decided I had to find a way to pay for it first, before I’d even have the right to say sorry. But, it’s like you said. I was using that as an excuse, so I could run from my own guilt.”

Snow finally acknowledges that he’s been running, that Nora’s death is his fault, and notice that he hands Hope Lightning’s knife, telling him to dish out any punishment he wants. Hope could kill Snow right then and there, but instead, he just finally confesses, “She’s gone, Snow.”

Hope closes the knife. He lets go of his hate.

Let’s quote the datalog again, because no one likes reading except me, apparently, but the datalog has genuinely brilliant writing: “He didn’t survive this long to see revenge - he saw revenge as a means to survive.”

Palumpolum concludes three character arcs:

Lightning

She admits how she snapped from losing Serah and her life all at once and went down a dangerous warpath (dragging Hope along with her)

She finds a new goal in surviving to see Serah wake up

She apologizes to Snow!

Hope

He gathered the strength to pin the blame on Snow despite knowing it was the Sanctum’s fault for killing her, despite knowing killing him wouldn’t bring her back

He acknowledges that he went down the wrong path, even if he did it to survive

He accepts his mother’s death

He forgives Snow

Snow

He admits that Nora’s death is his fault and that he’s been running from the guilt of not only her but many who died because of him

He was too overwhelmed by the idea that he didn’t know how to atone for his actions, so he just kept avoiding his responsibility

He faces the consequences, apologizes even knowing that it won’t fix everything

Anyway, if you made it this far, here’s a picture of some chocobos and sheep just hanging out in order to form a barrier:

On the next edition of Final Fantasy XIII actually had really good character arcs: Sugar and Rainbows

[doctorsanddetectives]

hey! so, the thing is I used to be really involved in tjlc pre s4 and it pretty much crushed me when the season aired and I just made a hard cut and distanced myself completely from it all. though I just kept on missing it, I didn't dare return to it, not even other adaptations. but recently, I just felt such a strong need to come back and it started with granada and tplosh but in the end, I just couldn't help myself and here I am thinking about Them again. and I've realised there are actually still a few people actually believing in tjlc, even some new ones. and I don't know, I guess I was just wondering if you could tell me why you still believe, if you really think they're actually going to make them canonically in love/in a relationship after all, what you think about a possible season 5 etc.? I know it's a lot to ask, I guess I just want to be convinced again haha

anyway, thank you for your time if you indeed answer this and of not then thank you anyway!

oh, hi! i'd sort of forgotten my ask box was open, so sorry for the late answer! this got a bit long, so i'll put it under a cut

[[MORE]]

first off, if you do rejoin the fandom, believing in tjlc or not, welcome back and i hope you have fun!

for me still believing in tjlc mostly boils down to this: 1. all the things that we saw in canon pre-s4 still exist, they are still in the text of the show. s4 doesn't change that just because it didn't go how we thought it would. 2. s4 doesn't make sense in ways that are too specific to not be on purpose.

number 1 is pretty self-explanatory i think, but just to throw some stuff you might remember back at you:

sherlock never denying insinuations that he's gay or that he and john are a couple, despite being mr. 'i get the last word'

sherlock saying 'into battle' while psyching himself up for john's wedding. sherlock watching sadly during john and mary's first dance and then leaving the wedding early. mind palace mary wearing her wedding dress while shooting sherlock in the heart.

john not being able to say the words he always meant to say to sherlock, even during therapy (what could they have been? i know what i think)

irene saying 'somebody loves you' to sherlock when she realises john was careful to not actually hurt him when punching him in the face. irene immediately following that up with asking john 'are you feeling exposed?'

john being sherlock's pressure point

i'm sorry, i gotta come back to the beginning real quick, everyone thinks sherlock is gay. mrs hudson (two rooms?). mycroft (happy announcement?). angelo (nice and romantic). janine (i know what kind of man you are).

that one post from the mofftiss tumblr q&a where the question is 'is sherlock saying i love you to john' and gatiss is like 'no, unless he's talking to a mirror' and we find out sherlock's talking to molly! john's main narrative mirror! mindboggling

that's just what comes to my mind right now, but there's of course still so much more. i sadly don't have a collection of all the old metas at hand but i know other people do, so i'd recommend you go searching for those.

as for 2. there's two pieces of particularly brilliant s4 meta that are keeping me afloat (and that i think i stole most of the points i make here from), i'll link them here and here. believe me, if you wanna believe in tjlc again, this is what you wanna read.

there was also a post that links weird things happening in s4 to bits from the earlier seasons, but i can't find it rn, i will link it if i do find it later.

but the one big thing that tells me s4 being the way it is was planned, is mary's death.

in s3 we get a 'how not to: death by gunshot' and it's

you don't get thrown across the room

you only have a few seconds of consciousness. choose wisely what to do

(if john watson is there, he will act like the army doctor he is)

in s4 we get

mary has time to throw herself in front of the bullet, then gets thrown across the room because of the bullet impact

mary holds a full 60 second monologue while bleeding out

(instead of trying to stop the bleeding or calling an ambulance, john just moos sadly)

it's the exact opposite. that is on purpose. whether it is on purpose to tip us off that s4 is not reliable narration - or if mofftiss genuinely decided to just say, fuck it, let's be weird as hell for no reason - that i can't promise. i choose to believe it is the former.

and, in terms of the five act structure: act 4 is supposed to hurt. usually, it's supposed to hurt, and seem so bad that it can't be fixed, to the *characters* not to the *fans* - but when have mofftiss ever done anything in a normal way, eh? because act 4 is when you lose all hope before the grand finale in act 5.

as for s5, idk if you know this or not but there was a 10 year anniversary q&a (it's on yt) in which mark gatiss said something about us being the most patient fans ever or so (i don't have the exact words). that made me go 👀 with regards to a potential s5 for sure.

also also, sherlock never officially got cancelled. and they were originally signed for 5 seasons from what i understand. everyone just thinks it's over because it seems over.

so long story short, i still think most of the original meta and analysis from before s4 holds up, i think mofftiss are willing to do some weird abstract shit that maybe we just don't understand yet (but that ultimately, hopefully, has purpose) and they always said there'd be 5 seasons

that was a long ramble, oops! but i hope it helps a little bit.

lastly, i should also point out that if it sizzles out and we never hear anything about sherlock again, that would not be the end of the world for me. i believe canon johnlock is the thing that makes the most sense for how the show is set up - but i'm well aware of the possibility that there might be things behind the scenes that we're not privy to and that might have changed the original course of the show. i do like to keep entertaining the idea of a s5 that proves tjlc until we have reason to think otherwise though!