#i also have a few choice words about how the muslim/arab world treats palestinians so don't get me started

[springcrafter]

I cannot believe I have to ask this of people (nobody here that I know of, otherwise you'd be contacted personally, but I've seen enough). Please don't trivialize this war by bringing fandom attitudes into them.

This is serious. I can speak for the Jewish Israeli side of things, that the foundations of everything everyone here ever believed are being tested in a degree unseen in our country's entire existence. I cannot tell you what I believe and what I don't anymore - this is existential to degrees I cannot compare to any event other than 9/11 and many of you are too young to remember that. Life as we knew it doesn't exist anymore. I will not pretend to speak for the Palestinian people because I'm not Palestinian, but I know them to be facing horrors beyond most people's understanding, particularly in Gaza.

This is no joke, and no talking point. This is an ongoing conflict that radically challenges the status quo for every involved side; too many of the chips have yet to fall, and personally I don't believe anything I'm told beyond the barest irrefutable facts. Misinformation and propaganda are rampant on both sides, and that's an insult to the truth and each and every victim. It gets worse when people with zero stakes in the matter get involved and turn our suffering into yet another point of debate to virtue-signal and boost their ego and pretend they're better than the person they're talking to.

I've had to see people with my own two eyes treat this as a shipping war or as another partisan issue to fight with your uncle over on Christmas dinner. Attempts to "pick" aside or to "help me convince [relative]" or "how can I rebuke [point]?", basically twisting reality into knots to make it fit your Western little heads.

Major yikes. It's bizarre and invasive and borderline appropriative, to think of our issues on your terms, and try to shape cherry-pick these narratives to suit your set of morals. These are Middle Eastern peoples (check Israeli demographics and my Ashkie DNA if you think I'm pulling that out of my ass) with our own cultures and sets of beliefs, and a conflict with an incredibly unique history and reason to be.

(For example, something I wish people understood is how diametrically opposed the notions of pikuach nefesh and jihad are. Pikuach Nefesh is Judaism's most important tenet - human life comes before everything and anything and it is our duty to do whatever it takes to save a life. Jihad is, as explained to me by several Muslim people, is a pillar of Islam and encompasses the idea of martyrdom, or basically that there are things worth dying for, and things one must die for. These principles factor on how both sides deal with warfare and it's a fascinating thing to talk about - but you'd never know if you only care about this war to boost your ego).

So what I'm about to say below goes tenfold if you're from the wealthy Anglosphere or the seat of a former European empire, because the state of the Middle East is your leadership's fault and you, yes you, have been doing absolutely nothing to hold your elected officials accountable. You also benefit directly from the instability in the region your countries caused (by keeping us powerless, yours are more powerful) and you have the privilege to sleep safe and sound and know war never will come to you. So here it goes:

Bringing selfish and trivial attitudes into a very real issue that affects real people that isn't you is a complete moral wrong. If you don't have a direct stake in the issue (ie. Israeli, Palestinian, or descendent of either) and have the absolute privilege of not having experienced war yourself (ie. lived in an active war zone for real personally in unequivocal terms) please take several steps back and a goddamn seat. This is not about you, your need to virtue-signal, and your feelings.

[queenie-says-free-palestine]

Hi! I came across your blog and wanted to offload some feelings, I hope you don't mind.

I've been kinda aware of the situation in Palestine for a few years now (However I am sure that there is A LOT more I don't know) I'm from Western Europe, I'm sure you're aware of how little concern there was and is for Palestinian here. My stomach just dropped when I turned on the news this past weekend. The first thing I saw was the Israeli president proclaiming war. I felt horrified, I knew that whatever Hamas had done, the Palestinian people would be punished for it. It's terrible what happened to the Israeli people, of course, but the entire western world doesn't seem to acknowledge, accept or even care about the fact that those in Palestine are living in an 'Apartheid system'

I've seen videos of kids being 'roughed up' by Israeli military, old people forced from homes they've lived in for generations. They have been suffering for decades like this. Why is it okay for them to be treated like this? Because they're brown? Muslim? I'm sorry if that's a controversial thing to say, but I can't think of any other reason for it. It is both heartbreaking and infuriating.

I wish the western world just cared, if only a little bit. We have been bombarded with 'Israel the victim' narrative, there is some reporting about what they are doing to Gaza (cutting aid etc) and it's generating a little sympathy but not enough to change the overall narrative. Those who publicly support 'Free Palestine' are painted as antisemitic at best, a terrorist sympathizer at worst.

I'm sick of it!

Forgive me if I've got anything wrong here, but this is the opinion I've come to from what I've seen/read. Feel free to correct me.

Thanks for letting me vent.

sorry, i meant to reply to this when you sent it but ive been so busy 😭😭

im glad you feel that my blog is a safe space to vent :) and no worries, im fine w you feeling the need to spill all this. if anything im somewhat honored you chose my blog !

i will be expanding on some notes you said, but trigger warning for graphic depictions of violence. also notable that if people will get triggered at the very ideas of these things, at seeing them as words or on screens, then imagine those who face this in their every day lives, who have faced this every day for decades. you can choose not to read and not get triggered and move on. they dont have a choice.

the first thing id mention is that you mention how the condemnation is "why is it okay for them to be treated like this? because theyre brown? muslim?" and as a brown muslim, yes this is exactly why its okay for them to be treated like this. the west has made it clear for decades that muslims are terrorists or plane hijackers or bombers and they should be disciplined and indoctrinated, and arabs are either oil money bilionaires or robbers or sex objects who live in tents and dont use cars because they have camels. thats why white ukrainians are defending themselves but brown palestinians are terrorists

but also keep in mind that minorities such as arab christians are just as threatened, especially due to a lack of awareness about the fact that theres actually a large number of christians in arabia, and the christian communities in the middle east are some of the oldest in the world, with the ones in palestine able to date back to the birth of the church. in fact, arab christians are almost condemned more than arab muslims because people tend to blow them off because theyre arab christian and somewhat alien to other people.

not to mention that people have the nerve to say palestinians should die bc the majority are muslims and want to kill infidels and queers. what of the queer palestinians? im friends with palestinians irl and two of them are queer. are they excused from the massacre but their families should die? and its sad that this next sentence might be controversial, but even homophobes dont deserve to be slaughtered. yes, i said it.

next, this is smth that angers me, not what you said, but the fact that its so unknown. youve seen videos of "kids being 'roughed up' by israeli military, old people forced from homes theyve lived in for generations". i promise you, anon, this is the tip of the iceberg. scroll far enough, esp on twitter under the hashtag #freepalestine. the things ive seen will stay with me forever. the things youll see if you look far enough, i promise, you wont be able to comprehend how people who witness this every day can still have the will to live.

if you scroll far enough, youll see videos of women screaming in pain as they watch their homes getting bulldozed. youll see a video of a hearing impaired palestinian girl running, only to get hit in the face w a stun grenade. shes only eleven years old. youll see videos of a boy, only about six, eyes wide and staring off, silent as the person holding the camera urges him to speak and shakes him. youll see a father crying over his sons body after finding it among the dead. youll see a boy running through a crowd, screaming and crying for his dad, only to find his fathers corpse being held up by the people in front. youll find people being pulled out from rubble. youll find a boy pointing at his little sister and saying "look at the blood on her feet." youll see videos of people being held hostage in al aqsa mosque, the third holiest site in islam, by the idf. they did nothing but pray. youll see a man holding a dead fetus, saying that its mother was killed. youll see a father vlogging what life is like in gaza, he buys gifts for his daughters for eid but they keep hiding under pillows thinking that theyre going to get bombed and he has to reassure them and hug them. he died a few days later. youll see two children being held by an idf soldier as they cry and swear they havent done anything. youll see a palestinian girl gesturing towards destroyed buildings behind her and saying "you see all of this. what do you expect me to do, fix it? im only ten." youll see a woman talking about how her two and a half year old son, who was shot by israeli soldiers, was loved by everyone and he loved everyone. youll see a group of men in the middle of prayer, refusing to stop even when they hear israeli missiles hitting. they flinch but they dont stop praying. 

and what of the incidents that didnt get recorded? these are just from the last decade or so. what of the sixty five years before that? this is what i call terrorism. the hijabi on your flight is not a terrorist. the zionists who tells people to leave the land they grew up in, the land their ancestors grew up in? THATS who the the terrorist here.

and even those who dont get killed are terrorized. there are people who have to sign in with checkpoints any time they enter or leave their own home. theyre arrested by the idf for no reason and interrogated for hours.

i would also like to add a point. palestinians arent punished for hamas's crimes. palestinians are punished for being palestinians. people could argue that "oh, israels trying to attack hamas, the civilians are collateral damage, thats inevitable in war!!!"

bull. shit.

okay fine, lets assume that, ethically speaking, its morally just to level all of gaza with the aim of exterminating hamas. lets assume that its not morally questionable to do so, and lets assume that it doesnt violate international law. let me steal the argument of bassem youssef from when he debated w piers morgan:

lets assume hamas doesnt exist. lets assume theres a world where hamas doesnt exist in palestine, and lets call this world the west bank. ... whats the excuse for killing palestinians in the west bank?

(he said smth of the sort, im not sure these were his exact words)

why would you kill palestinians in the west bank, where there isnt hamas, and say that its "collateral damage" from a war w hamas? its thinly veiled racism, i promise you

the slightly more fortunate news is that the world seems to be waking up. there are protests, even in the west, in support of palestine. al jazeera news has an article abt places that have held protests in solidarity w palestine (the link is here) and a lot of them are in western/european countries. even jews are protesting, i remember seeing a video (its kinda old tho maybe two years old ??) of a jewish guy saying "we are embarassed of whats happening in the state of israel, in the jewish name" and that palestinians "shouldnt give up the struggle" (the video is here)

unfortunately, where i live, no protests can be held, but maybe if theres any near you, anon, you can show some love by attending :) and if there arent then you can simply donate (only if you can, obviously)

sorry this ramble is so long hahaha its just that your ask allowed me to let out some bottled up feelings of my own

[schraubd]

Collected Thoughts on Excluding Omar and Tlaib

I've got another kidney stone. It struck on Monday, and then I felt pain Tuesday, Wednesday, and today. Thursday was my only pain-free day this week, and I have to assume that was the universe balancing the scales and recognizing that the Israeli government's truly terrible decision to exclude Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) and Rashida Tlaib (D-MI) from the country was plenty enough aggravation on its own. I went on a pretty vigorous tweet storm all through yesterday. Below I bullet point most of what I expressed on that site (which, as you may know, I've taken "private"), but my main takeaway is this: There's no serious case that either Congresswoman present a security threat to Israel (I've seen some people insinuate that they might incite a riot at the Temple Mount which -- I'm not sure I can physically roll my eyes hard enough). In practice, the "risk" Omar and Tlaib present is simply that they will hear  mean things about Israel and then say their own mean things about Israel. That's the locus of the complaint about the "balance" of the trip; that's the locus of the accusation that they merely want to rabble-rouse. What people are concerned about is they will go to the West Bank, hear people saying mean things about Israel, and repeat those mean things back to American audiences. But -- and I mean this in all earnestness -- so what? So what if that's what happens? To be clear: I don't think Omar and Tlaib were coming just to say mean things about Israel. But even if they were -- there's no security threat. The state will survive (how pathetic would it be if it crumbled?). It'd be speech. It'd be discourse. That's the price of living in a liberal, free society. Sometimes people say mean things about you. Sometimes those mean things are unfair. Sometimes those mean things are entirely fair. Whatever. It comes with the territory (pun initially not intended, but I'll own it now). It's not a valid basis for a travel ban. It used to be that Israel was emphatic that "come see us and you'll think better of us". Now Israel is terrified that if people come see them--at least, see them unchaperoned, without a constant guiding hand ensuring they see only the choice parts--they'll think of worse of them. That's the sign of a society in decay. To be sure, I think Omar and Tlaib probably would come away from their visit with a rather grim appraisal of Israel's treatment of Palestinians. But then, there's ample basis to appraise that treatment grimly--there's no inherent foul there. People can come to the West Bank and be honestly appalled by what they see. Only police states confuse "people saying mean things" with security threats. A free society can survive--and perhaps even learn from--critics giving it grim appraisals. People talk a huge game about how Omar and Tlaib could "learn" from their trip to Israel and Palestine -- and no doubt they could. But the flip side is that Israel, too, can learn from the testimony of Palestinians laboring under occupation, and from efforts to bring that testimony to the fore. It is wrong -- not to mention insulting -- to treat discourse about Israel/Palestine as if it were a one-way street, where wise, omniscient Israeli/Jewish teachers dribble knowledge onto benighted, ignorant Muslims and Arabs. Below is a recap of my other collected thoughts on the matter (many but not all of which were on Twitter):

This was a terrible and unjustified decision. Let's lead off with that and give it its own bullet point all to itself.

There is no reason to think that this decision was "what Omar and Tlaib wanted" since it made Israel look authoritarian and repressive. That is projection, to avoid speaking the more uncomfortable conclusion that "Omar and Tlaib might have had a point" in suggesting Israel acts in an authoritarian and repressive fashion.

I neither think this decision was solely Trump's doing -- Israel "caving" to his pressure -- nor do I think he played no role in the decision. I think he successfully convinced Netanyahu to do something that he already kind of wanted to do in the first place, even knowing it probably was a bad idea. Trump was like the frat boy friend egging his buddy into doing another shot flight. That Bibi was probably dimly aware it wasn't the wisest decision in the world doesn't mean that he wasn't ultimately fulfilling his own desires. Ultimately, this was a decision of Israel's right-wing government and they deserve to take the full brunt of punishment for it.

I understand why everyone is calling this "counterproductive" from Israel, since it will undoubtedly give a huge boost to the BDS movement. But, as I wrote in the Lara Alqasem case, that really depends on what Israel is trying to "produce". In many ways, Bibi benefits from an ascendant BDS movement, just as they benefit from him; and he likewise benefits from a world divided between conservatives who love everything he does and liberals who loathe him. So the fact that this decision puts wind in the sails of BDS, while further lashing Israel to a purely right-wing mast and alienating it from erstwhile progressive allies, is not necessarily a miscalculation -- it's the intended and desired effect.

On that note, remember the other day when 21 Israeli MKs wrote to Congress and said that a two-state solution was "more dangerous" than BDS? Well, if you ever wanted an example of what it looks like to trade "increased BDS support" for "kneecapping two-state solution support", this was it (even though Tlaib isn't a two-stater -- Omar is -- this act was aimed like a laser at the most prominent base of support for two-stateism in America: that is, Democrats).

On the other hand, shouldn't these right-wing Israelis be more excited to welcome Tlaib than most other Congresspeople? After all, she opposes the "dangerous" two-state solution! Oh wait, I forgot: in her one-state world, everyone gets to vote. That won't do at all, will it?

I love Emma Goldberg description of how Israel will slide away from liberal democracy via Hemingway's description of how he went bankrupt: "Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly." And by love, I mean it gives me a sick feeling of recognition in my stomach.

Justifying the ban on the grounds that Omar and Tlaib's visit wasn't "balanced" because they weren't meeting with Israeli or Palestinian government figures, only NGOs, and these are bad NGOs -- spare me. To tell visiting U.S. politicians "you can come, but only if you speak with the 'right' people/visit the 'right' sites/speak the 'correct' words" sounds like something you'd hear from the North Korean embassy. Omar and Tlaib should be entitled to visit with whomever they want to visit, and come to whatever conclusions they end up coming to. If those conclusions are unfair, we should trust the ability to defeat them with more speech, not enforced silence. But again: we can't conflate "unfair" with "critical". It's entirely feasible that a fair-minded individual hearing testimony from West Bank Palestinians will come to a sharply critical conclusion.

Some of the attacks on the NGOs Omar and Tlaib were scheduled to meet with are the usual chad gadya (has a leader who's linked to a group which kicked the dog ....) nonsense, but there are some groups with some genuinely bad history. I've consequently seen people suggest that we need to also hold Omar and Tlaib accountable for their part in this fiasco for meeting with members of those groups. Fair enough: I'm happy to hold them accountable, weighted and prioritized in proportion to their relative culpability. In keeping with that metric, I might get around to returning to criticizing their draft itinerary sometime in 2035.

Fine, one more thing on the itinerary: Am I correct in reading it as taking Omar and  Tlaib either solely or primarily to the West Bank and East Jerusalem? If so, it's entirely understandable why they'd refer to those locales as "Palestine".

Rep. Tlaib initially applied for a humanitarian waiver to visit her family, which was approved, but then she backed out given the conditions the Israeli government was going to impose on the visit (basically, not engaging in "boycott activities"). The usual suspects are crowing: she cares less about her family than she does about boycotting! I say (a) Rep. Tlaib is well within her rights to not prostrate herself to the dictates of a foreign government seeking to humiliate her, and (b) what about the past few days gives anyone the confidence in the Israeli government's ability to fairly adjudge what qualifies as a "boycott activity"?

The argument that Israel, as a sovereign state, has a "right" to exclude whomever it wants substitutes a juridical argument for an ethical (and practical) one. Sovereign states are formally empowered to do all sorts of terrible and/or stupid things. This was one of them. Hearing nominal anti-BDS folks make this claim -- which could as easily be applied to "universities and academics have the right to collaborate (or not) with whomever they want to" is probably causing another kidney stone to develop as we speak.

The other thing is that Israel is proving itself completely incapable of exercising this "right" in a reasonable manner that distinguishes between genuine threats to national security and unhappiness that people sometimes come to Israel and then say mean things. One of the reasons we liberals seek to limit unchecked government power is precisely because of the suspicion that it won't be exercised responsibly or non-arbitrarily.

Of course, the fact that Israel also exercises the practical authority to exclude people not just from Israel-proper, but the West Bank as well, gives lie to the notion that Palestinians even conceptually could have their right to self-determination vindicated solely by voting in PA elections.

Silver lining: pretty much the entirety of the American Jewish establishment -- AIPAC, AJC, ADL, J Street, Simon Wiesenthal Center -- came out against this decision. Huzzah for that.

Tarnish on even that silver lining: the Conference of President's weak-sauce statement on the matter. "Many of the organizations expressed disagreement with the government’s decision", but "Ultimately, the government of Israel made its assessment of the countervailing arguments and acted upon their conclusion." Really, that's what you're giving us? It's amazing how the Conference doesn't care about the "consensus" of the Jewish community when that consensus is a progressive one.

When a prominent member of or institution associated with an outgroup does something awful, it is natural for members of that outgroup to feel acutely vulnerable. In part, that's because they know that this awfulness will be wielded against them; in part, that's because frequently they have feelings for or connections to the target person and institution, and it is painful to see them act in such a terrible fashion. Of course, that feeling of vulnerability needn't and shouldn't be the primary story as compared to those directly victimized by the awful behavior. But it is not per se wrong, or "centering", to acknowledge and validate the existence of the sentiment; nor is such an acknowledgment necessarily one that stands in competition with recognizing the direct damage of the instigating act.

The next time a Democrat occupies the Oval Office, I have to wonder what sort of penance is going to be demanded from the Israeli government for years upon years of insult and humiliation. It's not going to be back to as it was before. It's not even going to back as it was in the Obama administration. Democrats will -- rightfully -- insist that Israel pay a price for what it's been doing these past four (if not twelve) years. The flipside of recognizing the importance of preserving Israel as a bipartisan issue is that Israel aligning itself fully and completely with the Republican Party is going to come at a cost. It will be interesting to consider what that cost will be.

via The Debate Link https://ift.tt/2ZcVv85