#i don't actually like to call them jally but if that's what you want it to be

[motorcycleboy9]

when you never learned the color theory so you just gonna tvgirl the whole thing

[weaselbeaselpants]

I really dislike Chaggie being compared to Jally. I ship both, but....

Jack and Sally aren't a couple in Nightmare til the very end. Jack only comes around once he's literally been shot at and forced to see things out of his fantasies for once and realize that other people really do love and support him; like Sally. The entire rest of the time Jack's stuck in his own mind. Sally's in love with Jack but she's actually not supportive of his Christmas and even tries sabotaging it because she knows what he's doing is wrong even if it took an unexplained visionflower for her to get that hunch first. Her line is literally "although I'd like to stand by him" not "I support him even if I really don't want to". And in the end not only is Sally vindicated by being right like Santa says she is, but Jack suddenly realizes what she's done and falls for her right then. YMMV on how good a couple they'd actually make ((they aren't Diane and Mr. PB; eat shoot Lindsay Ellis *annoying cries*)) but that's what's cute about Jack and Sally: Sally does her pining maturely (stalking not included) while Jack instantly falls all over in love with her because he's Jack.

I understand there are different interpretations w people think Jack was always in love with Sally but obviously I digress and have always kind of disagreed with that reading, as did the writers of TNBC. Because, if you did have a version where Jack was always feeling something romantic towards Sally, or WORSE, was in a relationship- you would get Charlie x Vaggie.

If I'm right (seasoned hazbinnies feel free to correct me on this) Charlie and Vaggie were not written to be lovers initially but later retconned into being later into the writing process....which shows. I think promo stuff from back then called the two just "friends" and Vaggie and Charlie don't act very romantic. As I just laid out and as any shipper of Jally could tell you it's not hard to make that kind of dynamic cute and quirky. The problem is it isn't even THERE.

Vaggie is apparently Charlie's girlfriend and I guess just also believes in the hotel but is skeptical of it, though I wouldn't consider that on par w Sally who was straight up gonna poison Jack in one of Caroyln Thompson's earlier scripts. Especially given that she's an angel this could either work for or against her character but Vaggie seems more like an agent then a loving bestie, even. I think I remember one of the spin off comics for Hazbin which had Vaggie just straight up admitting she's doing the hotel plan because it makes Charlie happy and she'll do anything Charlie wants.

To be honest, it reminds me more of Dr. Mrs. the Monarch from Venture Bros going on about how/why she puts up with Monarch's shit when he doesn't listen to her and it's because he has "passion for a villain"...the difference is that in that case you can kind of get where Mrs. the Monarch's coming from in her emotions. With Vaggie, well, guess that's a sin of not having all the details of her feelings laid out yet. I mean, when you ever get Vaggie's feelings. Such little work about your main couple in comparison to Angel or Alastor.

AND THEN CHARLIE? You can really tell she wasn't written w Vaggie as her gf in mind.

Boy howdy I REALLY HOPE for the series that Viv and co listened to some of the crew complaints and gave Charlie a more empathetic and supportive vibe because ho mah gawd and I mean this as someone who ships them- Charlie is a HORRIBLE girlfriend in the pilot.

Again, thematically, Jack has the excuse of being in a manic depressive episode and also not knowing Sally very much at all in TNBC. He sees her as just another one of his Halloween Town friends who's especially talented but doesn't even realize she and the rest of the town cares. He's not listening to her when she comes to warn him because he's self obsessed. He's nice to her but also passive cause that's how he is at that point of the story, even if he's gentlemanly about it. Compare to Charlie who, while always adorable Didneyprincessesque, is dismissive of Vaggie's concerns, anger, fears and reform while she's not only aware of Vaggie's feelings WHILE BEING IN AN APPARENTLY COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP WITH HER is concerning. And that's before you get to Charlie not noticing Vaggie getting tossed around by Alastor right in front of her.

It'd be different if Al does his weird smarmy shit and Charlie is uncomfy but only stiffens up and shows her actual strong side to him when he touches Vaggie- "HEY! Don't you lay a finger on her!" but no, nothing.

I ultimately get what Viv wants and is going for by comparing Charlie and Vaggie to tnbc, but I think in practice in the pilot it fails because it

was never planned out to be a couple

they're supposed to be a couple but Charlie and Vaggie aren't all that romantic

they're supposed to be a couple but Charlie isn't very supportive or even defensive

People give Jack a lot of shit (rightfully, in the video games) and give the movie and Jally shit for being a "bad fit" but I again vouch for them not only on the grounds of tnbc being complete and at home in it's own skin. The rest of the franchise not so much, but the movie and the writers of the character know what kind of person Jack is and have his redemptive quality be that he falls for Sally; I love him and Sally both as characters but also as a couple for that reason. I'd feel totally different if Jack, say, was Sally's bf throughout the film and acted the way Charlie did. I can be critical of TNBC and I think some of Jack's writing is flawed and could be better, but y'know, I will defend it pedantically like I'm doing right now.

With Charlie and Vaggie, I ship them because they're my favorite characters from the pilot but dayum. I'm the kind of hermitshipper who's able to sustain myself off scraps and headcanons and even I'm saying these two need some work. Cuz they do. They need A LOT of work. And better writers.

If Chaggie is ''endgame'' in the final season then I hope "A Happy Day in Hell" is just an outlier scene or it's going to be retconned that they aren't lovers yet because if not- oh Vaggie! Get urself a Hasani Walker comic and fast my gurl you need it.

[boysborntodie]

Johnny/Cherry parallels

I had always noticed the parallels between Bob and Dally, both of them being direct foils to each other, but whilst analysing them, I noticed that two other characters were also set up as foils (whether intentionally or not), especially in regard to their relationships with both the aforementioned boys. I wanted to dive deeper into that.

1) Their relationship with Bob

Bob, despite being a major character with his death being the catalyst for the events of the novel, only appears in two scenes. Anything else about him we know is from accounts by Johnny, Cherry and Randy. 

Through his relationship with Johnny, we see him at his worst; A cruel, violent and callous person who had hurt Johnny to such an extent that Ponyboy remarks that Johnny would kill if someone tried to hurt him like that again, long before he actually proved it. As the novel is from Ponyboy’s POV, and this is the side of Bob that he showed Greasers, we mostly trust Johnny’s accounts and the few glimpses of Bob we see.

However, Cherry (and Randy) tells us of a different side of him, one more positive and sympathetic. Cherry recognizes Bob’s faults, but she also knew him to be friendly, nice and someone worth looking up to. 

This isn't much to remark on in itself, until you take Dally into consideration.

2) Their relationship with Dally

Dally is essentially Bob, but lower-class. Like Bob, he’s mean and violent (He had been arrested, he got drunk, he rode in rodeos, lied, cheated, stole, rolled drunks, jumped small kids--- he did everything), but because we see him in Ponyboy’s POV and his relationship with Johnny, we know first-hand of Dally’s capability of goodness and his better qualities, in a way we aren’t privy to Bob’s. 

Cherry states that she’s scared of Dally, and, while a part of her is attracted to him, she sees him as a genuinely bad and terrible person, calling him dirty and considering him one of the worst Greasers she’s seen, with Dallas’s advances and forcefulness towards her, not helping his case. It’s one of the times in the novel, we see Dally acting as mean as we’re constantly told he is. 

On the other hand, Dally is at his best with Johnny who gives him hope that goodness exists in a cruel world, and that a person who has suffered so much could still remain kind and soft. Johnny is the only person who’s able to stand up to Dally, with Dally actually listening to him, without a fight. It’s worth noting that Cherry also stands up to Dally, despite knowing what he’s capable of, something not many people do due to fear of him.

"Leave her alone, Dally." ("Huh?") "You heard me. Leave her alone.” // "Please leave us alone," she (Cherry) said. "Why don't you be nice and leave us alone?"

3) Their individual relationships with Dally and Bob 

Johnny managed an admiring grin. "You sure didn't show (that you were scared). Nobody talks to Dally like that." // She (Cherry) smiled, "From what I saw, you do."

Edit: @veggiesforpresident pointed this out the other day to me.

Dally could never love Cherry. I would be surprised if Dally loved anything//Johnny was the one thing Dally loved

(Not to make it about Jally but SE Hinton is kinda setting herself up at this point)

Bob is to Cherry as Dally is to Johnny. Both of them recognize their faults and shortcomings, without being blinded by their biases towards them. But at the same time Johnny and Cherry describe these men who are so upfront about their cruelty and callousness, as capable of admirable qualities. 

Johnny and Cherry are both great judges of character, have strong morals and are extremely observant, being able to see things others are blind to, so Ponyboy, while incredulous to both of their statements, having a strong dislike for the boys, is contemplative of it.

"Dally's okay," Johnny said defensively. "He's tough, but he's a cool old guy." // “You only knew his (Bob’s) bad side. He could be sweet sometimes, and friendly.”

"Yeah... in the manners bit, and the charm, too, I guess," Johnny said slowly, "but one night I saw Dally gettin' picked up by the fuzz, and he kept real cool and calm the whole time. They was gettin' him for breakin' out the windows in the school building, and it was Two-Bit who did that. And Dally knew it. But he just took the sentence without battin' an eye or even denyin' it. That's gallant." // “I know I'm too young to be in love and all that, but Bob was something special. He wasn't just any boy. He had something that made people follow him, something that marked him different, maybe a little better, than the crowd. Do you know what I mean?”

Another unrelated parallel is that, like Johnny stood up to Dally, Cherry can and will call out Bob if she thinks he crosses a line.

"Leave her alone, Dally." ("Huh?") "You heard me. Leave her alone.” // "Cherry looked mad. "A little (drunk)? You call reeling and passing out in the streets 'a little'? Bob, I told you, I'm never going out with you while you're drinking, and I mean it. Too many things could happen while you're drunk. It's me or the booze."

Cherry’s fear of Dally parallels Johnny’s fear of Bob. While it can be argued that Dally didn’t hurt Cherry like Bob did Johnny, he crosses her boundaries, speaks derogatory of her and verbally torments her (in the movie, he forcefully grabs her, so for once, movie!Dally is actually worse than book!Dally), to the point Johnny, who is known as non-confrontational, intervenes.

4) Their relationships with Ponyboy

Johnny and Cherry are special amongst the entire cast, for their mostly positive relationship with Ponyboy, the protagonist and narrator of the novel. Apart from Soda, they’re the only two people Ponyboy feels comfortable and able to be himself with. 

"I know," I said. "Well," I said, thinking this over, "you ain't like any of the gang. I mean, I couldn't tell Two-Bit or Steve or even Darry about the sunrise and clouds and stuff. I couldn't even remember that poem around them. I mean, they just don't dig. Just you and Sodapop. And maybe Cherry Valance." 

But Johnny and I understood each other without saying anything. Nobody but Soda could really get me talking. Till I met Cherry Valance.

They both appreciate and admire Ponyboy’s intellect, innocence and sensitivity, despite people usually thinking of such qualities as useless and signs of weakness and naivety. While others like Two-Bit and Darry also do, Cherry and Johnny are more upfront about it and think of them as Ponyboy's strengths.

“Stay gold, Ponyboy.”

‘When you're a kid everything's new, dawn. It's just when you get used to everything that it's day. Like the way you dig sunsets, Pony. That's gold. Keep that way, it's a good way to be.’

//

"You read a lot, don't you, Ponyboy?" Cherry asked. "-I'll bet you watch sunsets, too."

“You're a nice kid, Ponyboy. Do you realise how scarce nice kids are nowadays?”

Unrelated and I don’t have much to say on it, but these two scenes are fairly similar, with Ponyboy snapping at Cherry and Johnny respectively, after they say their thoughts which go against his current views whilst he’s emotional and upset, which end up changing further in the novel (Darry hating him/Bob being an irredeemable person).

“An' you can shut your trap, Johnny Cade, 'cause we all know you ain't wanted at home, either. And you can't blame them." // "I wouldn't want you to see him. You're a traitor to your own kind and not loyal to us. Do you think your spying for us makes up for the fact that you're sitting there in a Corvette while my brother drops out of school to get a job? Don't you ever feel sorry for us. Don't you ever try to give us handouts and then feel high and mighty about it."

5) Their roles and understanding of societal roles

Apart from Ponyboy, Johnny and Cherry are the characters who most despise the existence of the Greasers and Socs dynamic, the rampant classism in Tulsa which victimises both sides of the class division, especially children, and the societal roles forced upon them.

“I’ll kill myself or something (when talking about the Socs).” “It seems like there’s gotta be someplace without greasers or Socs” // “We’ve got troubles you (Ponyboy) haven’t even heard of. You want to know something? Things are rough all over.”

"Useless... Fighting's no good" // "I can't stand fights... I can't stand them"

Whilst most other people think of them as unfair, they also accept it as a part of life. Cherry and Johnny represent those who can’t just accept it, but also can’t do anything against the system or to save themselves from it and are destined to live and die as a byproduct of this system, rather than escaping it. After a life of abuse and trauma, Johnny dies before he is ready to, while Cherry still adheres to societal norms, and is forced to hide her true self, as shown as she ignores Ponyboy at school. 

They’re also set as foils to Ponyboy who is an anomaly among Greasers and Socs, and, like them, understands that the class dynamics of Tulsa should not be considered as just a part of life, instead recognising how they hurt everyone, turn kids against each other and cause prejudices that blind them from seeing their humanity. But Ponyboy has the power to not only escape Tulsa and its classism someday but also to actually act against it, by writing the Outsiders.

[greeksorceress]

DALLAS FOR THE LAST THING YOU REBLOGGED 💗

thank you for the ask, dearest! here goes my answer! to anyone who might read this, please, take into consideration that i'm 100% talking about my own perspective/opinion. 💞

favorite thing about them: how much he actually cares for people important to him. he might not show it with words, but he's a ride or die friend and tries his best in so many ways. the way he acts as soon as pony and johnny tell him what happened and he goes into helping mode without even asking a question? hell yeah.

least favorite thing about them: how he views/thinks about women... the way he harassed cherry, his disrespectful tone when talking about sylvia... :(((

favorite line: "They're still writing editorials about you in the paper. For being a hero and all. [...] "Yeah they're calling you a hero now and heroizin' all the greasers. We're all proud of you, buddy."

brOTP: darry and dally! i feel like darry would literally be the oldest brother he wished he had had, and that while darry calling him out about some of the things he does would make dally a bit angry, i think he would secretly be very grateful for that! i also like his dynamics with two-bit, i think they would cause so much chaos together if left by themselves for too long! and well, steve and him are literal bros so <3

OTP: jally, and i'm kind of embarrassed about how much this ship means to me. adgfsdgfsad i feel like they have this kind of relationship in which they can only be themselves when they're with each other. there isn't a reason to pretend to be tough or to act unaffected about what goes on at home. they rely on each other so much, they trust each other so much. i have literally one million reasons to love them and lots of headcanons for them, so i'll keep quiet now that i can. <3

nOTP: i can't see him with sylvia in a romantic sense. i don't think that would have ended in a good way, like, ever. i also kind of picture his relationship with the rest of the gang and the shepards as friendly/brotherly, but yeah! the only truly nOTP here for me is with sylvia.

random headcanon: he's very superstitious. he can name all the states and their capitals in the correct order by heart. he has a bit of a chipped tooth in the front because he fell over while doing something silly when he was nine. he owns a ring that was his grandfather's that he only wears when he races. doesn't care about speed limit and yet, if he wants, he can be the best driver in the gang.

unpopular opinion: dally was seventeen. he was basically a kid. i honestly don't think that he actually was that tough, or that he had actually been in so many rumbles or fights or whatever. the book is told by ponyboy's perspective, and he was an impressionable fourteen years old. and also, most guys tend to exaggerate their fights to seem cooler in front of their peers. did dally went to jail and/or suffered a lot of stuff through his whole life? i think so. was he as cold and cool and tough as ponyboy described him? i don't think so. also, i can't picture dallas as this powerful, mature creature that is much different from the rest of the boys of the gang/other boys of his same age. and i specially hate this reflected on some people's representation of jally. johnny wasn't a helpless kid, and dally wasn't a powerful, mature adult. once again, the whole book was told from ponyboy's perspective and he had very set opinions about everyone, specially of the gang, and the way he specifically thought about johnny's and dally's personalities is constantly challenged by their behavior/the actual events described in the book :((( 💞 (once again, this is all my opinion)

song i associate with them:

favorite picture of them: