#i feel like this could be how el confronts will in s5 about lying to mike

[chirpsythismorning]

Thinking about the what if El was never interested in Mike romantically, she just assumed she was discourse on the tag today and how it's very possible what could make El fully realize this, is when in s5 she see's Will's love for Mike in real time, for the first time, and she's just like damn! That is not me!

[thefirstlioveyou]

What will Mike and Will's S5 Fight Be About?

Shawn Levy basically confirme/implied another angsty Byler fight for S5.

But, what will it be about? Some think it'll be about the painting, but personally, I don't think so at all. I believe the fight will be about Mike's internalized homophobia; Mike will be afraid to romantically be with Will and it hurts Will.

First off, I don't think Mike would be mad for him hiding his feelings or lying about the painting. The sole purpose of the painting lie is to open a gate way to Mike knowing how Will feels about him. It's a set up. Why would he be mad that it was Will who thought those amazing things about him? He's in love with Will.

Now, let's see the common traits that all Byler fights have:

miscommunication, but they both want the same thing

is about their relationship

mike projecting

happens pretty early on, episodes 3-4

triggered by a shift in their relationship/mike doing something

they are alone

It's pretty predictable that S5 will focus on Mike's feelings for Will and be in Will's position this time. He's gonna be a yearning, gay mess! However, it doesn't make sense to copy every little thing as that wouldn't bring anything new to the table. It would quite frankly feel lazy and boring.

I actually believe they will be honest about how they feel episodes 3-4 (after Mike discovers the truth about the painting, what would be the shift in their relationship), and it will be a very angsty scene rather than a happily-ever-after moment (for now). Here's how I picture it: Will wants a relationship with Mike, Mike wants one too, but he's reluctant to because of the shame and bit of denial still lingering.

As understanding as one can be in this situation, it's also hurtful to hear on the receiving end. I can imagine it makes Will very upset. After so long of waiting for Mike, waiting to see if his feelings could be reciprocated, he finally gets it but doesn't get to keep it because of the shame Mike feels. Will does indeed feel like a mistake for his sexuality but, as he also states, Mike makes him feel otherwise. So, if he heard the same person that makes him feel better for who he is, say he's wrong for being the same thing he is.... that would HURT Will terribly. In Will's eyes, he will truthfully believe Mike doesn't want him, even if in Mike's POV, he wants nothing more than Will. This is where the miscommunication comes in play.

This is a real thing that happens in many Queer relationships even to today, when one is ready and the other is not yet. There is no bad guy (unless cheating, abuse, etc is involved of course) in these type of situations. You can sympathize with both sides... Which makes this a perfect fight to watch as the audience; it wouldn't make you hate either of the characters.

Some people say Mike’s accepted his sexuality by the end of S4, but I feel like if he did, it wouldn’t really be a good set up for him to be Vecna’d in S5. His struggle with who he is and his relationship with El is crucial to S5. If we keep Mike struggling with his sexuality and his trauma regarding El, this gives a purpose for him to be Vecna'd, which is the perfect way to explain a lot of his character the past seasons. Similar to how Max escaped Vecna the first time, Mike would do something similar (with the help of others, of course). He will have to accept the mistakes he's made, accept past events that were out of his control and accept who he is, or let himself die. Rather than focus so much on saving others or being needed to others, he must save himself now, for himself. He has to finally believe he is the heart. Finally confronting and accepting what he can't change will bring his character and his relationships to a full circle. It would explain his dynamic with El and Will the whole series. He will finally have the self-confidence he lost.

As much as people want Byler to have an established relationship in S5, I don't think that's likely. With a fight already implied to happen again (most likely early on), it wouldn't make much sense? They're a slow burn on top of that... The season is building up to them being together, it's not them already together (at least I don't think so).

The writers can obviously find a different route, but I feel like this would work and fit well. It would save Mike's character perfectly and it connects with the Mike being vecna'd, or at least in danger, theories; It gives it more purpose.

I just can't really imagine what else the fight would be about. It has to be about their relationship and it has to be about it changing in some way. Mike's weird behavior still needs to be explained... so I would think the fight has to be connected to the reason for that behavior. The fight would then be about his internalized homophobia. And if it is, it has to be explicitly about it, not just subtext like S3 fight.

Rather than “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” and insulting Will, Mike straight up will have to be like, “I’m scared, what if this is wrong? I don’t know how to do this.” “This isn’t right.” This time Mike will be direct how he feels about HIMSELF, but Will would still be hurt because this is the same guy that made him feel better for being Gay…

If this is how the fight plays out, lord hold me because I won’t survive it😭😭😭

[helioleti]

A while ago I had this idea for a dialogue between Mike & Will in s5, leading up to their first kiss. I just typed it down without much thought on narrative, I just wanted their main expressions & lines out before I forgot the ideas I had. It reads like an unprofessional screenplay bc I didn’t wanna convert it into proper prose, but I thought I might post it here because why the hell not.

(For context: I envisioned s5 to go in a way that had the party + El needing to rescue Mike from Vecna who abducted him right in front of Will‘s eyes. Before this, Will & Mike had a fight about the painting. During Mike & El’s break up Mike learned that Will had lied about the painting, and then confronted him when they both went to investigate something near an Upside Down gate. Will, completely in panic, gave no clear answer. In his time held hostage by Vecna, Mike was terrorized by visions about his greatest fears & his guilt regarding his feelings for Will, and lack thereof for El. Hence, it really got him thinking. Now the party‘s rescued Mike (after a big battle), and they’re on their way back.)

//

(Will sits in the doorframe of their hideout, guarding with a gun in his lap, and watching the spores fall on the Upside Down’s Hawkins. Behind him in the cabin, Dustin, Lucas and El are sleeping. Mike however is sitting up, watching him and seems torn. His face then turns determined, he stands up and approaches Will from behind.)

Mike: Hey.

(Will looks up, surprise visible on his face)

Will: Hey. (A beat, awkward) Can’t sleep?

Mike: Yes. I mean– No– I mean.

(He holds up his hand, showing the neatly bound bandage)

Mike (clearly lying): I need help changing the bandage. It got dirty and– I mean, you’re the only one awake, so…

(Will‘s face turns into a knowing expression. He smiles.)

Will: Sure. (He shifts to make space for Mike in the doorframe) Come here.

(Mike looks relieved, smiling back. He sits, and Will rummages his backpack for a spare bandage. Their eyes avoid each other’s, but Will wordlessly helps Mike take the old bandage off his hand, then starts wrapping it with the fresh one.)

Will (chuckling): Hm.

Mike: What?

Will: Nothing, it’s just… I had to think of first grade. When you fell off the slide on the playground and sprained your ankle, but you didn’t want your mom to find out because she’d never let you go on your own again. So we went to my house and– you could barely walk, and you had me bandage it to stabilize it enough so you could hide your limp. (Pause) Do You remember?

Mike (smiling): Of course. Of course I do.

(Silence for a while. Mike looks at Will fondly, Will looks up for a second then looks down, somber. He keeps wrapping the bandage.)

Will: I‘m sorry. About the painting.

(Mike’s smile drops, but he stays silent, his eyes are on Will but Will keeps looking down.)

Will (cont’d): I shouldn’t have meddled. Not like that. It wasn’t my place. I mean… advice? Yeah. But lying… (he inhales) That was wrong. I’m sorry. You were right to be mad.

(Another silence in which Mike looks at Will, now pained, but considering)

Mike: You’re right. It wasn’t your place.

(Will stays silent, stifling an exhale)

Mike (cont‘d): And… And I guess I was mad because I just… I didn’t understand. Why would you lie? To me? To fix something that was already doomed?

(Will’s gaze shoots up, he shakes his head with wide eyes)

Will: It’s not doomed. You can still–

Mike: No, Will, that’s where you don’t understand. (His newly bandaged hand twitches in Will’s, but it stays.) I love El. I really do.

(Will nods, slowly)

Mike (cont’d): But I love her like I love Lucas and Dustin. (Looking slightly annoyed.) And Max, I guess. And Nancy. And Holly.

(A beat. Will looks at Mike, waiting. But Mike continues in a way he doesn’t expect)

Mike (cont‘d): But she doesn’t need me. I mean, she used to, when we found her in the woods, but she’s not that lost child anymore. And I’m not that little boy anymore either. And no matter how much we thought we needed each other like that– We were children. And we– We didn’t. (Pause) We never did.

(Will starts looking slightly confused)

Mike (cont‘d): And I guess I… I was also mad because it had been months back then, you know. Months with almost no phone calls… and no letters because I didn’t know how to write them to you– And… (he sighs) And I guess I just… I guess I wanted the painting to be from you.

(His hand twitches again, and this time, he lightly takes Will’s thumb between his fingers. Will tenses lightly, but doesn’t break his gaze)

Mike (cont’d, stammering): Because– Because it’s just always been you. (His breath hitches) It was always you.

[chirpsythismorning]

Hi!

I want to ask a question which is eating me since july:

What is the narratively propose of the line "I feel like my life started the day we found you in the woods" ?

Because I am losing my mind on this one. The worst is I don't think it won't came back in s5, not like the painting.

But this sentence makes the all "asking to be my friend is the best thing i did" business a lie! From Will's prospective.

How much Will's lie will affect Mike in s5 is widely discussed, but what will be the consequences of Mike's monologue for Will ?

(Ironically, I don't think Will knew he was lying, he genuinely thought that El loved Mike that much. he genuinely thought that El loved Mike as much as he do)

So what do you think?

Bye <3

I never really thought about it that way, but now that you say it, ouch.

I would definitely say from Will's perspective, Mike's monologue to El contradicted his monologue to him in the shed in s2, and so therefore Mike asking him to be his best friend wasn't the best thing he did...?

Yeah that's definitely going to be circled back to in some capacity.

Honestly, I think s5 is going to be very tragic. So many casual fans expect Will to have this horrible ending based on this trend they've had for Will's character thus far. I think to subvert this expectation a majority of the audience has, the Duffer's are going to go all out... They're going to humor those fans expectations a little bit, meaning they are going to make Will (and all of the characters quite frankly) experience so much pain, that it'll have even the most confident bylers questioning everyones happy ending. And that's what's going to make the ending so gratifying. You can't know joy unless you've known sorrow. Those of us who can soar to the highest heights can also plunge to the deepest depths. Don't mind this very relevant Anne with an E quote because the Duffers are anners.

This season upon season trend of the story sidelining Will, something even most casual viewers picked up on and critique as a bad thing... is literally setting Will up for a perfect ending. Because how would season upon season of a character losing again and again, be satisfying if it ended with him losing, again? Answer: it wouldn't be.

Will's dealt with the shit end of things for years, with s4 reaching new heights of making him feel like he deserves it.

All of this is going to come to a head in s5 with Vecna trying to get Will to join him. We already know that he wants to kill everyone else, except Will... and so, Will clearly isn't a target for him to literally kill or hurt technically, and yet Vecna will do what he has to in order to get Will to feel like he has no choice but to join him.

And I think this quote is going to play a part in Will's experiences over the last 3+ seasons finally being confronted head on in the story.

I also don't think Mike said that, knowing what it implied, otherwise he wouldn't have said it at all. Though I think both Will and El and maybe even Jonathan knew what it implied, and I'm sure it pissed them off a little bit. Like I know El was thinking Mike not only are you a bad boyfriend but your bad friend too because jesus!

This quote could honestly come to bite Mike's ass as well, because seeing Will at his lowest thinking no one cares, is going to make Mike feel responsible, because he's going to realize he played a role in part of Will having those negative feelings about himself in the first place. Actually thinking about what he said and how it made Will feel, and also rethinking other interactions between them, all while potentially finding out about Will's feelings/sexuality, that is going to destroy Mike honestly. Because this whole time they could have been together if he'd just not done those things.

Yes, Mike has made the effort to reconcile with Will in both s3-4 after their fights, but they've never truly confronted the problem. And that's all for a reason.

Because once they do confront the truth, it's going to be hard for them to not want to be together knowing they both feel the same.

But the reality is most stories don't operate like that because it's not satisfying, especially slow-burn romances.

When it comes to slow-burns, it's all about the miscommunication and the will they wont they and the balance of both parties feeling something while thinking the other couldn't feel the same.

But I think right now the story is sort of imbalanced in terms of clueing the audience in on Mike's feelings for Will, in comparison to clueing the audience in on Will's feelings for Mike.

And with s5 going back to s1-2 vibes, it's entirely likely s1-2 vibes Mike is making a return, so there is a good chance they're following through with how a slow-burn ship has to operate, meaning they are evening up the balance of those feelings to make their endgame feel worthy and satisfying.

I do think that quote from Mike's monologue will impact both of them in some capacity, because it also, like you said, questions the validity of Mike's monologue to Will in the shed. And so it needs to be confronted in a way that gives both Will and Mike closure.

And let's not forget about El. She was there the day she met Mike and Lucas and Dustin and she knows it wasn't love at first sight. I think she herself has had a similar understanding of their meeting as Mike does, where it wasn't fate, that they just got lucky basically and it worked out for them. And yet she had strong feelings for him that grew over time. And so him saying that even probably upset her a little bit, because she knew it wasn't true even from her take on things. And so why would it be true for Mike who has been incapable of saying i love you to her face, ever?

This rose-tinted lens on their relationship from the beginning by the people around them, society and most of all the audience, is what put them in this position in the first place. They need to acknowledge the truth with one another (without Will mediating) so that they can actually move on and grow and be friends in the way they truly want to be.

Season 5 is definitely going to be a wild ride from start to finish, and even if it feels hopeless in the beginning, it'll all be worth it. Trust!