#i feel like with abuse victims its either uwu go ahead and forgive your abuser or

[nostomannia]

I ranted about this in a voice call earlier but I think I should put it into writing here, as well as some extra thoughts.

Have you guys ever thought about how we can kinda start to woobify abuse victims? Or at the very least like. Not give them agency or even actively take away their agency? I've had that happen before with Solita and it bugs me.

Deity is her abuser. But they're her parent. Her best friend. Her most hated enemy. Her purpose and her downfall. You can't just take them away without even consulting her about it. Or on the flipside, take her away. It's like if you took away someone from their abusive S/O or parent by force, without verbalizing and convincing them that 'hey, this person is horrible.'

Solita NEEDS the agency to walk away from Deity. If she doesn't, she falls back into a cycle of toxic dependency on someone else at BEST. At worst, when her ties are cut from Deity, she will flat out end her own life.

I understand the sentiment of wanting to save someone from an abuser. That's an entirely natural reaction. But if the person doesn't understand, or believes that they deserve better, where's the closure? That's not a satisfying end, is it?

Solita will actively place herself in the way of any attempt someone may try to rid her of Deity, so it's not like she's gonna stand by and watch. SHE'S the roadblock every single step of the way. Going behind her back is only going to break a relationship or plainly just break her.

Easy solutions sometimes make the situation worse. Taking someone from an abuser, no matter how right morally it is, can still just be kidnapping.

[apenapaperandadoofus]

Hmmm, your opinion does make a lot of sense, I also think that (when it comes to the story and narrative and music) the route was fantastic! (The Anons and yours) But I honestly can’t stand suit at all after the literal abuse he puts you through :/ I went through something similar irl for years and um Wasn’t all so Uwu top me daddy as you’d think Its just sad that people seem to completely ignore that (or in the worst case sexualize the abuse) but also hate Rika to death at the same time. 🍊

I just don’t like both of them, think their actions are inexcusable, hope they grow as ppl (well i guess both sorta did already?) and think their trauma isn’t excuse but an explanation. Ray is alright tho, think he is very cute, even if I have my complaints with him as well lol He awakened my love for soft boys and flowers haha :D But I’d rather go back and play through Jaehee’s Route again than to listen as Suit Screams at me again over the amazing music 🍊

(Also sorry for any mistakes I am not very good at writing in english D:) (Also I just wanna say I don’t want to come off as “I dont like that character so you can’t either” I honestly admire anyone who can love Suit and forgive him for what he did, Same with any other Character! Just do your thing and have fun :> ) 🍊

Ahh yeah i get it! Also I’m sorry if what I said offended you! And your English is great (English isn’t my first language either and I get some of the struggles PFTT)

I also don’t want to come off as trying to convince you to like him, I get your opinion and thank you for sharing it and I’m happy I can also get to share mine!

So let’s see.

I mean I’m not trying to justify everything that Suit does! And he does need to be held accountable, you’re completely right!

What he does is not good. It’s horrible.

And I mean I forgot to say this before, but Cheritz did glorify it a bit because Saeran just got away scot free (mostly in the SE)

I think because it’s fiction, and people know that in the end Saeran becomes better, that people (including me) are like ‘we can handle it because he gets better afterwards.’

The reason why I said I believed his route took place in longer time, is because I want to let there be a point where Saeran gets to cool off for a bit.

I know that romanticizing the whole abuse thing is not right, and I mean, it’s a horrible thing!

And I mean, unless you want the BE2, you have to sort of submiss to the whole suit thing, but if you want the good ending, you fight back and try to get Saeran to realize that what he’s doing is wrong. I think what I liked was that Saeran actually realized what he’d done.

In his route he does realize what he’s done, and I believe he feels guilty.

For me I just liked the whole suit storyline because it explained a lot of Saeran (it wasn’t just because I liked him topping me and all.)

There were points where I was like dude what the actual fuck.

I think Saeran is held accountable, but they should just show it more!

And I think the reason why people believe it’s sort of different for Saeran and Rika, (after story wise, because SE are a whole other thing) is because Saeran feels guilty, and I like to believe that he goes to therapy to better himself, to redeem himself.

Meanwhile, unless V stops fueling Rika, she doesn’t realize what she does is wrong. She actually thinks she’s saving people.

Once again, I apologize for what I said, because I don’t think I used the right wording.

I don’t like how Suit treats you.

If it were me irl, like I said, I would be done with him.

What I liked about the Suit arc was seeing how he developed, how he realized that the things he did were wrong, and him finally admitting that yes, he likes the MC.

The thing I liked was the whole denying and then realizing that he loves the MC part! I’m sorry for not wording it properly.

Like with Rika, I think Suit is an interesting character, but that doesn’t justify what he does. And I’m happy that in the end he managed to redeem himself and realize that yes, he did a lot of bad things.

I think the reason why we weren’t able to sort of see all of that it’s because the game is supossed to take place in 11 days, and they can’t add the whole thing in or else it would be super long.

And you’re right, the trauma doesn’t justify what he does at all! Trauma is not an excuse.

I don’t think they were trying to make it seem that way. Like with Rika, I think they were trying to explain why he became the way he is.

Now, remeber that for Suit, he does think that what he’s doing is ‘right’ I’m a sense.

He starved you because he believes that that’s how you should punish someone, he doesn’t think it’s a big deal because that’s how he was raised.

So that explains why he does it, but it doesn’t excuse it.

The reason why I would want a Rika route, it’s because I’d like to see her grow like Saeran did.

I think I loved Saeran’s route, because he does redeem himself. He tells the MC that what he did was awful, he sort of has a breakdown because he reslizes that he hurt the person he loved so much, and Suit was directing his anger and hurt towards them.

Also in the end he gets the MC out, out of a place he believed would keep him safe, the place he thought that was doing the right thing, he thought they were the good guys. And for him to realize that basically everything he’s been doing until now it’s not the right thing, I mean that’s big, and it takes a lot of courage.

I think that Saeran redeems himself a bit by doing that. The way he apologizes is by actions, actions that maybe you think are no big deal, or something he should’ve done a while ago,but for him they’re huuuge.

Maybe they should’ve added a bit of him actually expressing himself more but I’m sure they didn’t have time.

It’s super weird, because if Rika’s route was like Saeran’s, I would actually really like it. And it’s funny because I just hate V lmao, but that’s sort of different.

If they did to Saeran what they did to Rika in V’s forgive ending, I would be pissed, because like I said before, Rika just DOESNT realize that what she’s doing is wrong unless V comes up and stops fueling her need to do it.

If V just stopped doing that, it would be over far more quicker. And I’m not justifying what Rika did, not at all, but I just don’t really like V because he could’ve stopped it and he KNEW he could, but he didn’t because he was stubborn and was still lying to himself that his love could ‘cure’ her.

Also in the Forgive ending they just victimize Rika WAY too much, and that pissed me off a fucking lot.

For Saeran, they don’t really play the victim card that fucking much. Ray is the only one that actually does it (which is why with Ray I’m a bit like mehh) but suit does apologize in a good way, I mean, he wants to let the MC and never see them again. Saeran’s route is better at showing that he is sorry, and that he does try to better himself.

Oof anyway sorry for the long post, also it’s 5am and I woke up to write this, so that’s why I may have rambled to much.

Thank you for your opinion! I love seeing other people’s point of view!

Anyway I hope you have a good day, and remember to take care of yourself! And I apologize if what I said just wasn’t worded properly, it’s just my mind gets way ahead of what I’m writing and I have to try and get the whole thing pft.

[fromthedeskofelizabeththird]

So Here are the Spoilers -Volume III

AKA I have not been this mad at Cheritz for ages. Let’s deep dive.

Warning: this post contains spoilers and mentions of abuse and p*dophilia. 

Also Rika.

So much Rika...

I am mad, yo

Not even mad, I am furious.

As I usually do when I give my thoughts like this, here is what I wanted from V after end and Rika DLC

V moving on with his life and having a happy ending with MC

The RFA healing and also moving on

A focus on MC and V!! And their love???? You know?? The point of him having a route in the first place.

An exploration of Rika’s past and Mint Eye, to fill in all the blanks we have so far 

Rika facing justice and seeking redemption.

I’ll be honest.

If you want fluffy V and MC content, go ahead and play the existing ends. The after end is not really about V at all. It’s along the same lines as Secret Ends 02, where your LI isn’t really present and instead dealing with their own emotional turmoil and issues. 

And, you know. To an extent I would have been okay with this in V content. V is the leader of the RFA and it would be weird if the fall out from Rika wasn’t even addressed. My beef about this is that we don’t get a secret end 01 where MC and V are together, repairing problems together. We don’t see V at all for 98% of the story. We get more Rika content than V...which is a whole other issue I’ll get to in a bit. Hell...I’m pretty sure we get more VANDERWOOD than V. (Don’t get me wrong...I like Vanderwood, but wtf??) 

It’s honestly the same complaint I have for both Jumin’s after end and Valentine’s DLC, where he’s not even present for most of it and it feels like a waste of time and hourglasses. (And at 80 hourglasses per chapter, plus another 100 to unlock both endings, it doesn’t come cheap.)

V and MC’s ‘happy ending’ is an afterthought. V’s entire presence in the after end is an ‘oh by the way, remember V? The character whose after end you’re in I guess???’

Ugh.

Anyway.

It was good to see the RFA healing and moving on. I was so heartbroken by Jumin’s inability to cope with what was going on, even as he took extra care to make sure the rest of the RFA were fine. I loved Yoosung’s anger and conflict over this person he’d admired and respected for so long. I loved Seven’s complete breakdown over the potential loss of his brother.

I loved that they got reunited!

What I didn’t like?

The forcedness. 

The after end gives you two choices: Judge or Forgive. I hoped that they would be complimentary to one another, like in Seven’s Valentine DLC, where both were good ends, just different in tone.

Well, boy was I wrong!

From the beginning of the After End, you are pushed towards Forgiveness, with the MC being portrayed as completely unreasonable and borderline hysterical if they show even an ounce of resentment and anger towards Rika. If you go on to unlock the Judgement ending, Cheritz not only spits in your face but every single one of her victims.

There is a short VN sequence called Rika Circus, where you are mocked for essentially enjoying torture porn and wanting Rika to come to a cruel end and suffer a horrible fate. It’s the judgement ending, but you the player are judged instead. 

Just getting these screens made me feel physically sick:

I don’t know where to begin with this bs. Maybe with the preface that I am an abuse survivor and pushing the idea that victims have to forgive their abusers in any way shape or form and aren’t allowed to hold even a small amount of anger towards them is completely shameful? This ending literally borders on the same gaslighting logic that if a victim stands up to their abuser they are the shitty one and hyper aggressive. I wish I could explain how bad this ending was for my PTSD. 

Actually no. I will explain.

The most important lesson I got from my therapist was how okay it was to be angry, because it was an acknowledgement that I was a victim and my abuser was in the wrong. That I didn’t have to forgive her if I didn’t want to. That it was important for me to feel valid in my emotions.

Maybe what bothered me was the cognitive dissonance (and gaslighting) that an MC wanting Rika to face justice must 100% want her to die or live out the rest of her days being mistreated and even sexually assaulted? Like??? How about no?? Are there no jails in Mysme’s universe? No community service? We know from the Judgement end that she got a life sentence, so it’s not like the MC sentenced her to death.

Maybe it’s because the player is given very valid choices e.g. being suspicious of the cult leader who stabbed their boyfriend and tortured numerous people, but are framed along the same lines as the MC being like KILL HER *knife emoji*. 

Maybe it’s because this ending is the first time the player gets close to knowing Rika’s past and then is made to feel guilty about not knowing it? 

I just

/inhale

right.

/deep breaths

okay

/breathe

my hands haven’t stopped shaking for hours haHA fuck my life

I can’t help but feel like this after end undid absolutely all of the highlights of V’s route. V only mentions his love being an obsession in the judgement endings.

Actually, all of the RFA’s reactions in the judgement ending are the same as their reactions to finding out the truth about Rika in V’s route. Jumin wants her to have a life sentence despite his conflict about it. Yoosung is upset and mad. Zen wants nothing to do with her.

And this is the ‘bad’ ending.

The forgiveness ending is pretty Rika centric and incorporates V’s good end. The RFA is back to normal, V comes back fine. It’s strongly implied that he and Rika both spent time in Alaska together before coming to propose to MC. Rika, as far as we know, never faced punishment for her crimes, which is framed as a good thing.

Perhaps the most abhorrent part of the forgiveness ending is that it’s the only one where Rika comes forward and confesses the truth about the twins...which...  I’m not sure why C&R’s fate, the Chois being safe etc et al comes down to MC’s feelings about Rika. It’s a disservice to Rika more than anything, because it seems like she only comes clean because MC was nice to her and not because...you know.. it was the right thing to do.

And this brings me onto the treatment of Rika in the route and DLC and holy shit, it’s a ride.

No, Rika is not redeemed. 

Yes, she is woobified to hell and back and then twice more.

We learn that Rika was adopted by Yoosung’s relatives, who were cruel and devoted to the Catholic church. Later she was verbally abused and assaulted by a priest. She later decided to take power in the fact that people would be afraid of her and thought she was Satan etc.

I’ll be blunt.

Rika’s DLC is just an expensive retcon. It’s seven chapters at 60HG each just to be told that Rika had a sad past and all of her terrible actions came from being treated badly. She does not even get to be held accountable for Mint Eye, because Cheritz gave her a sister who actually was the one to tell her not to trust V or the RFA and poisoned her mind.

Rika does not, nor ever, get a proper redemption because even in her own DLC it’s never admitted that she was in the wrong...which is some bullshit logic because...well..it’s really jarring to have it constantly reinforced that Rika did nothing wrong and should not be judged because of her sad past at the hands of her foster mother with cult-like beliefs... because if we take from it the fact that Rika became essentially the same, by extension shouldn’t we then forgive her abusers because we don’t know their story either? Should we shrug off any notion that the priest should be imprisoned because judging people is bad and we just want him to be tortured and forgiveness is the way to go?

I’m just

I don’t know what I expected but

they still managed to disappoint me

To summarise, the after end is bullshit, V isn’t even there for most of it, Rika gets no redemption arc and is treated like an uwu flower crown victim and it’s all very manipulative and rushed lmao. It’s a waste of hourglasses and time and literally undoes everything good that came before it