#i haven't been self-harming and i dont have like a specific plan so idk if the hospital would even take me

[scarletcomet]

my therapist was trying to convince me that I'd miss out on all of these things if I died, but I really don't care??

[hyperlexichypatia]

ok this has always been a question in the back of my mind regarding autonomy - "what if someone needs help and wants it, but for any reason, never explicitally communicates they want it?" or "what if someone is in a mindset where they dont want help, but after/before they always want help/wish someone would help?"

because ive seen posts like "even if someone is in critical state, unless they explicitly state they want help, then you shouldnt interfere", something along the lines of that.

its affecting how i approach others, especially those who arent doing well mentally (and even myself)... because sometimes, we DONT know what we want, or whats best for ourselves. I can attest to that. I dont know what i need or what i want a lot until i gravely mess up or i miss out etc. Sometimes I say yes when i mean no, and no when i mean yes. Sometimes i reject help both when i actually want it, and when i feel as if i dont need it if I'm not well (psychosis, ocd etc...)

The thing everyone says about "you know yourself best always" and "never intervene on others actions even if theyre not okay if they reject outside help." it... assumes everyone is in a state to know themselves well. amnesia comes to mind, or any cognitive condition where someone will struggle to know what they want/need, or how they feel, and how to communicate such.

Maybe im overthinking and nobody has ever said ppl cant intervene in special cases.. but ive never seen anyone explicitly say they can, either.. so idk what people think about it.

We're all here to overthink, so that's a good thing. I think there are a few issues to overthink here. First of all, what is "help"? I mean this in both a specific and an abstract way. Specifically, what are you considering doing for someone that they haven't asked for and you think they need? Is it something where if you're wrong and they really don't want it, it's no big deal (like giving someone a coffeepot they have no real use for but accept to be polite), or is it something where if you're wrong and they really don't want it, you're severely harming them by imposing something on them against their will (like forced drugging, which is what most policy advocates mean by "getting someone help")? And more abstractly, how can you be sure that what you want to do for someone is actually helpful? The premise of "You know yourself best always" doesn't mean "You know yourself perfectly always." No one has complete self-knowledge. It is absolutely possible for you to be wrong about what's best for you. It's absolutely possible for you to make a decision and regret it -- maybe immediately, maybe years later. And to think "Why did I make such a bad decision? What was I thinking? Why didn't someone stop me?" But you still know yourself best always, not because you know what's best always or never make bad decisions (that's not true of anyone, and is an unreasonable standard!) but because you know yourself better than anyone else can, because no one else can have the lived experience of being you and knowing how you feel and what you need. Or put another way: However bad, unwise, or regrettable your decisions about your own body/mind/life are, anyone else's would inherently be worse. So moving on to the specific: What if someone needs help in a way that they can't communicate due to awareness/communication related disabilities? This definitely happens to me! For example, I have a real problem remembering to eat and remembering that I'm hungry. It's helpful for me when someone reminds me that I haven't had lunch yet, and that's probably why I'm spacy. For yourself, if you know you're prone to bouts of poor bodily awareness, try to ask for help in advance. If you have a willing friend or partner, you can ask them in advance "If I get spaced out, please remind me to eat/ drink/ take medicine/ go outside." For more complicated things, you can look into some of the advance plans and templates suggested by the Fireweed Collective: https://fireweedcollective.org/crisis-toolkit For trying to help other people who haven't asked for it -- or rather, trying to intervene in a way that you think is helpful even though they haven't asked for it -- I would recommend some broad guidelines.

Ask first, and be willing to take "no" for an answer. If someone says no, but seems really disoriented, you might try asking again later, but still be willing to accept a no.

Offer basic things: Food, water, and the opportunity to leave the environment. If the person only eats certain foods, bring them that food. You may need to physically bring it to them if they are too disoriented to get it themselves or even answer whether they want it.

IF you know that they take a medication regularly, and you think it's possible that their disorientation could be caused by a missed dose, offer to bring them their medicine. Do NOT try to get them to start a medical regimen if they're not already on them. DO NOT encourage them to take medication if you know, or have reason to believe, that they're foregoing medication as an intentional choice rather than simply forgetting a dose.

If possible, try to reduce environmental stressors like noise. Turn down music, fans, flashing lights.

If the person is communicating in a way you don't understand, listen respectfully. Don't bombard them with questions. If you don't understand, say so. You can always come back to the topic later.

Offer alternate ways to communicate. If someone isn't speaking well, try typing or another form of AAC.

Be humble. They may not appreciate your offers, nor do they have any obligation to. They might be annoyed or angry by your offers (especially if they've already said "no"), and they have every right to be. Accept this fact going in.

These are some general suggestions for trying to help someone who has not specifically requested your help, but you have reason to believe may be disoriented or otherwise unable to communicate their wants/needs, while still respecting their bodily autonomy. It's not foolproof, but it might be a start.