#id also do chara/chara but like. if someone can get a little treat out of this too why not younkwo.

[argentdandelion]

No Soul Necessary: Flowey’s Happy Ending (Part 2)

Introduction

As the previous part in the series noted, Flowey has many psychological problems, and getting a soul might not help. Yet, despite his soullessness, he can still have his happy ending.

For this, Flowey must do eight things: lose his power of SAVE (done), come to terms with his guilt and regret, stop hating himself, make meaningful relationships with others (even if they’re not very strong ones), fill his life with fun, novelty and piles of happy moments, and (on a more minor note) adjust to life as a soulless flower through spending time with humans like him, learn the perks of being a flower, and quality-of-life improvements like a flowerpot-wheelchair.

Guilt, Regret, and Self-Loathing

In some ways, Flowey resembles a person with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD, or sociopathy/psychopathy). Such people are often thought to not feel guilt or regret, and if they do, to not learn from it.

Yet, Flowey is different. He does feel regret or guilt. Most obviously, he feels guilty about “failing” Chara in the buttercup plan. One could argue this is just a memory of guilt when he was Asriel. However, that’s clearly not the case: in the Genocide Route, he also immediately regrets telling the genocidal human “Creatures like us...wouldn’t hesitate to KILL each other if we got in each others’ way”. In addition, in his True Reset speech, he says he doesn’t “think he can do it again”. Clearly, even when unable to feel love and compassion, he can feel some sense of regret or wrongdoing.

Even before his murderous Flowey Runs, Flowey had plenty of reasons to feel guilt. Firstly, his actions in the buttercup plan got both Chara and himself killed. Not only that, but, after the deaths of his children, Asgore declared war on humanity, causing Toriel to leave him. While Asriel/Flowey is only indirectly to blame, he likely felt very guilty when learning what had happened since his death.

Furthermore, Flowey’s guilt for murdering everyone in the Underground countless times (including Frisk), could lead to the Dobby effect, where inextinguishable guilt leads to excessive self-punishment. Reflecting on his actions might even lead to self-loathing: either for who he is (someone who's callously treated the whole Underground as his plaything) or what he is (a soulless, nigh-necromantic flower-abomination).

However, Flowey feeling guilt, regret, and self-loathing would both hinder and help his recovery.

On one hand, guilt and regret creates consequences for his actions. These consequences could be a workaround to his inability to feel love and compassion, and could help him stay out of trouble and keep more-or-less fulfilling relationships. A sense of self-loathing, too, might motivate him to become a better person, so he doesn’t hate himself.

On the other hand, Flowey might, out of guilt or self-loathing, choose to stay in the Underground, as a sort of prison sentence.1 He might also wallow in self-loathing to the point of gaining (or worsening) his depression. However, these forms of self-punishment won’t help him get better; he must confront his regret and guilt.

While he does just that (as Asriel) in the full flowerbed speech of the Pacifist epilogue, in some works, this meeting doesn’t happen. In fact, regaining a soul and love and compassion would just make things worse: his guilt would surely increase, thus making his mental health plummet.

Relationships with Others, and His Lack of Love, Compassion and Empathy

Losing his power of SAVE takes away its corrupting, mental-health eroding influence on him. Without it, he might be able to reconnect with others. After all, since he could memorize responses, people became predictable. His reducing people to sets of numbers and lines of dialogue worsened his problem. Without that power, people on the Surface cannot become predictable.

Furthermore, he can't undo any of his social mistakes: he must be more careful to start, keep, and strengthen relationships with others, even if they're weak due to his soullessness. He could learn to behave himself through self-interest: with permanent consequences, he can’t afford to snap and kill someone.

Though Flowey cannot really feel love and compassion, if his condition is anything like sociopathy, he could surely imitate signs of it, to some extent. Again supposing his condition is like sociopathy, he could be capable of cognitive empathy: a largely conscious drive to understand another’s perspective or mental state. It’s synonymous with perspective-taking, and it should allow him to act in the right ways to achieve wanted outcomes, and avoid bad ones. If he did perspective-taking and risk-balancing quickly and habitually, few could tell the difference.

It’s very likely Flowey is lonely. Though Flowey cannot really love anyone, he nonetheless longs for someone like him, someone unpredictable he’ll “never get bored of”, someone “like him”. He wants someone he’ll care about, even if he can’t really care about them. Even if he cares more about others as resources than people, if he only wants understanding and affinity, rather than actual love, it’s achievable.

Frisk could easily fulfill Flowey’s needs. Frisk is certainly unpredictable: Flowey expects, and wants, Frisk to finish him off after the Omega Flowey fight. Yet, Frisk does not: Frisk’s incomprehensible mercy baffles and scares Flowey.

While Frisk would likely be Flowey’s strongest relationship, it’s possible he could find new joys in the monsters whose responses he memorized as they adjusted to life on the Surface. Papyrus is one possibility: in a Neutral end dialogue, Flowey himself says it took a long time to “get bored of him.” It’s possible for Papyrus to become monsters’ ambassador, rather than Frisk. Seeing Papyrus adapt to the difficulties of human-monster politics could be exciting for Flowey.

There's also humans: a novel experience for Flowey. Asriel himself says, “There are a lot of Floweys on the Surface”. Though he surely meant to warn that life on the Surface wasn't perfect, it's true some humans feel little to no love and compassion and are still law-abiding. It's very likely Flowey can find people just like him on the Surface. He could join a group of PTSD sufferers, who have gone emotionally numb from trauma, or socialize with humans with ASPD, who naturally don't feel empathy.

Despair

Flowey killed himself not only because he didn't "want to live in a world without love", but also because he didn't want to live in a world without Chara. If not love, Flowey needs something to live for. In short, to stave off his despair, he needs purpose, meaning, and friends.

Flowey is unique for his immense knowledge of the Underground and all its people. By exhausting every possibility, he likely learned how every monster would react in any situation. This would be handy in human-monster politics, especially if his knowledge even partially applies to humans. Flowey could, as a sort of penance, find purpose in ensuring everyone is happy on the Surface, and advise whoever is the ambassador. After all, politics is so much more complicated than flirting and joking, and if Frisk is the ambassador, they're just a kid.

If he sentences himself Underground, Flowey’s despair will never lift. A few works mention recovering from trauma through happy little moments piling up; with his days on the Surface filled with fun and meaningful activities, Flowey might eventually get better.

In both the Pacifist and Genocide Route, Flowey says he’s tired of being a flower. While he might be conflating soullessness with having a flower body, and assuming getting a Boss Monster body would make him psychologically revert to "Asriel", it's possible having a flower body in itself makes him unhappy. For one thing, he can’t manipulate objects like he used to; he doesn’t even have hands. His mobility is also limited and strange as a flower; he probably can’t climb stairs, nor ride elevators.

Though most Post-Pacifist works show Flowey in a flower pot, this would probably make his condition worse. One work has Flowey move in a big flower pot with robotic arms (with hands) and legs; another fan improves upon the flowerpot trope with a dirt-filled wheelbarrow.

Related Reading

Flowey and PTSD

Kill 'em with Kindness (actually spun off from this section)

Incidentally, the author of this article has a Patreon.

The author shall dodge whether Flowey deserves at least a life sentence in favor of how to give him a happy life (that is, SAVE him). ↩︎

[rubberduckyrye]

You don’t really seem to talk about Angie even though she probably lies just as much as Kokichi, albeit with a different approach. Why is that?

No offense anon, but this sounds like a loaded question xD Id why, maybe it’s cause I’m still tired? Anyway--

There are several reasons why I don’t talk about Angie.

One: This blog is a Kokichi blog. Celest insisted I write this, and it’s kind of true. I started this blog as a place where I can ramble about Kokichi, it even says as such in my description. MY URL is a reference to Kokichi, my Icon is Kokichi, it’s all Kokichi, I am just Kokichi. Nee-heehee!

(I’m joking, but people have joked that I’m literally Kokichi before dnsajkdna)

(I even have this snickering/laugh that sounds like Kokichi’s “nee-heehee” I’m not joking, I’ve had this laugh for years)

Anyway, this leads me into point two: Kokichi is my current hyperfixation. People with ADHD have this mental phenomenon called “Hyperfixate” which means people with ADHD get... Hmm, very very very into that One Thing. They often end up thinking about That One Thing a lot and it’s a symptom of ADHD that can be tiresome to manage and tiresome to listen to, even for other ADHDers... unless they’re both fixated on the same One Thing then they will talk about that One Thing for hours. Literal hours. Nonstop.

If you’ve ever talked to someone with ADHD, you’ll see what I mean. You bring up their hyperfixation, and you’ll see the switch turn “on” in their faces as the infodump literally everything there is to know about their fixation. We ADHDers get very excited over our fixations. It’s like, showing a puppy their favorite treat. 

And before you ask, no, I don’t think we can control out fixations. So I can’t shift my fixation to something else at will. If I have a shift in fixations (you’ve seen it before probably, when I get fixated for a day or so on my interpretation of Chara from Undertale, I know that it’s happened before) it’s pretty unwilling. I can try to trigger certain fixations with music (I.E. listening to a song that I associate with Chara will make me think about her and possibly trigger a spell of fixation) but I can’t control what my brain latches on to, and it currently has not latched on to Angie.

Point three: I don’t get people asking about her. Most people come to me for Kokichi because of the aforementioned reasons. Because of my fixation, I’ve done a ton of character studying on Kokichi, and because of that, people are drawn in to my interpretations and opinions on the character and want to know more about my thoughts on him. Angie never comes up in asks I get, and that’s because people aren’t as interested in her as they are in asking about my interpretation of Kokichi.

Point four: This one is touchy, because of the subject, but I’m a little afraid of getting into her backstory and characterization because of the racist undertones in her writing. I’d have to do a lot of research on her culture before I could even get into her characterization, unless I’m going to scrap her entire backstory in one fell swoop by implying that she was lying about everything to mess with Shuichi. Which just feels kind of cheaty. So to do proper analysis on Angie, I’d have to make sure I’m not stepping on any toes on the subject of racism and the racism in her character’s writing.

A lot of people think that the racist writing comes from the English translation using “Atua” but honestly? If the English translation didn’t just 100% change Angie’s FTEs or something like that, her writing is still racist towards pacific islanders and indigenous people even without the word “Atua” being used to refer to god. There’s a lot wrong with the writing and the racism in Angie’s writing, and it all stems from Kodaka not doing his god damn research, so I’ll have to do that in his place and pretty much rewrite Angie’s entire character.

At that point, Angie would be less of the canon interpretation and more of a pacific islander OC, so there’s also that to consider.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question well enough!

[recentanimenews]

Jaku-Chara Tomozaki-kun – 09 – The Normiest Summer Ever

Summer break is here, but it won’t be a break from Tomozaki’s mission to master the game of life. It can’t be; it’s their last summer break in high school! His first task—go somewhere one-on-one with a girl who isn’t her—can be satisfied by going to that movie with Fuuka. But for Hinami victory ultimately means him regularly dating Fuuka, and she’ll be setting other goals for him between now and the end of August.

Hinami wants Tomozaki succeeds in his first date, so they have what she calls a “rehearsal date”, in which she texts him places he’ll suggest they go as if he had chosen them, and she’ll speak in a higher register and act like his date. While clothes shopping, she gives him a slightly scratched backpack she bought earlier for a cute button he buys for her. Then they hit up the electronics store and play some Tackfam at the Yontendo display.

It’s here where we watch Hinami openly struggling for once and not being The Best. I emphasize that she’s not acting here; she’s being her genuine self with him, and the pretend date suddenly feels like a real one. He considers their Tackfam playing to be the “best form of communication” for them; it’s when he realizes she’s not just a top-level normie but a dyed-in-the-wool gamer like him.

While having a bite, Hinami tells Tomozaki she already got the OK from Fuuka to give him her LINE ID, which saves him the trouble of asking her in person. Hinami gives him the brass tacks of his message, and Tomozaki bangs it out. It’s a bit lengthy, but it’s earnest and straightforward, so she clears it for sending. And despite warning Tomozaki that sometimes it takes a while for Fuuka to respond, she responds almost instantly with an enthusiastic “yes”—a definite good sign.

Before parting ways for the day, Hinami tells Tomozaki to keep the 4th and 5th open, as she and the rest of the gang are going to have a barbecue and sleepover, ostensibly as a ploy to get Yuzu and Nakamura together. But such a youthful normie event will be a veritable goldmine for Life XP Tomozaki needs to level up. I don’t think that Hinami “pulled strings” to get him invited—I’m sure they were all fine with him joining them—as someone who wishes to master the game, this is a challenge he can’t pass up. He’s in.

First Hinami invites him to join her and Mizusawa for a planning event at Mimimi’s. There, his task will be to “mess with” Mizusawa at least three times, for as she says, “moderate teasing is key to making friends as equals.” It’s a super-clinical, even cynical way of looking at bonding rituals, but that doesn’t make it not true!

Sure enough, as soon as Tomozaki arrives ready for an opening to mess with Mizusawa, he is the one messed with. But when Mimimi requests a change of venue since her grandma is over, Hinami suggests the house of the one who lives closest to Mimimi. That’s Tomozaki, and as a result his little sister and mom totally freak out by the top-tier characters who are suddenly hanging out with their Fumiya!

While playfully searching Tomozaki’s room looking for porn, Mimimi finds a box full of totally worn-out old controllers. He explains that while they’re no longer sensitive enough for Tackfam, they’re still fine for other games. Hinami takes a particular wordless interest in these, actual artifacts of his grueling effort to become the best that she can hold in her hands. No doubt she has a few such controllers in a box in her room too!

Planning to bring Yuzu and Nakamura closer together turns to talk of the future in general, with the knowledge that with exams next year there won’t be as many opportunities to hang out; this summer must not be squandered. Tomozaki successfully messes with Mizusawa thrice. Mizusawa also noticed the hair gel he recommended to him isn’t being used too frequently, and Tomozaki demonstrates why when he applies it: he needs some pointers.

What follows is a very sweet little scene as Tomozaki films himself as Mizusawa shows him the proper way to apply the gel. Mizusawa notes that Tomozaki takes everything seriously, and wonders why he goes to such lengths, with everything from hair gel to Mimimi’s speech. Tomozaki likens life to a game he doesn’t want to lose, and Mizusawa can see, but from his perspective, if life is only a “game”, why not loosen up and enjoy it?

It’s a very enlightening exchange of viewpoints, as the two guys treat the word “game” very differently. When Tomozaki returns to his room with his new ‘do, Mimimi is the one messing with him, using a pen as a microphone to report “something fishy going on.” After everyone leaves, he suggests Saturday the 1st for the movie with Fuuka, which is fine with her.

Now comes the even I’ve been looking forward to since it was first suggested: his big date with Fuuka. Tomozaki is the first to arrive at the meeting spot, which means he gets to see Fuuka before she sees him, and watch her neutral, almost forlorn expression turn to pure quiet joy when she spots him waving to her. Both of them are so happy and giddy this is actually happening, the two freeze up a bit, until Tomozaki says “Shall we?” and they head to the theater.

When Tomozaki mentions her long sleeves, she tells him how she has extremely sensitive skin that burns easily in the sun. He misses an opportunity to compliment her, but at the same time saying something like “I think your skin is lovely” might have made her to self conscious. In any case, Fuuka is so excited upon seeing the movie posters she draws quite close to him, then realizes how close that is an retreats a bit.

Once they’re in their seats, Tomozaki can’t help but look over at Fuuka beside him and blush with happiness. After the film they grab a bite, but as he continues talking about the film in detail, Tomozaki realizes he’s talking too much and not giving her an opening to add to the conversation. It’s here where my stomach started to sink along with Fuuka’s expression as Tomozaki overcompensates by bringing up a string of conversation topics that don’t mesh well.

Worse, he thinks it’s going well when it’s clear from Fuuka’s look that she notices something is off. He realizes this too when she comes right out and says he’s a “mystery” to her, in the way he suddenly swings from being really easy to really hard to talk to. An awkward silence ensues.

Still, and this is key, those moments of awkwardness do not end up sinking the date or their prospects for each other. Instead, while on the train Fuuka clarifies her comments: she didn’t mean what she said about Tomozaki to be a bad thing, but a good thing. She’s never been good at talking with boys, so the times when it’s easy to talk with him represent the first such time. That makes her happy, which is why, without any needed input from him she tells him she wants to go out again sometime.

Tomozaki reports his great victory to Hinami over the phone while she’s painting her toes. She urges him to reflect on the “hard to talk to thing”, which really comes down to lack of experience on skills on both his part and Fuuka’s. The more time they spend together, the more comfortable they’ll get talking with one another.

Hinami may well have expected Fuuka would want to hang out with Tomozaki again, so she already has the ideal event for their second date: a fireworks show on the sixth. Tomozaki texts Fuuka, and she again gets back to him immediately with a yes. But before that he’ll tackle the barbecue and sleepover with his normie friends. I for one can’t wait for either!

By: sesameacrylic

[ukitakejuushiro]

bestboyyusuke replied to your post “U m if any of you agree with that addition to that post that says that...”

i dunno man i love bnha and i love the girls and it definitely is a better shounen in that regard compared to others but id rec you give this post a read http://fireflysummers.tumblr.com/post/164048636306/im-still-upset-about-momo i think it sums up my feelings towards how horikoshi writes girls :/

I'm not saying he can't write female characters and you know how much I love all of the girls that's why I can't help but be sad at how they're treated most times... I think horikoshi's a good writer and I admire his storytelling abilities but sadly liking shounen manga mostly means having to acknowledge sexism and then deciding whether you'll love it despite that

fjdk i dont know if im getting my point across and i hope i dont come across as rude or snotty but i just think that anger towards this kind of issues is justifiable and as long as they dont harass him or do some nasty shit i dont think people (especially women) not liking how he writes female characters is disrespectful at all, even if I myself don't feel that angry at it and just sorta disappointed yknow?

Nah dude you don’t sound rude or snotty at all, I know you just want to spread awareness too and might even be concerned that I’m not seeing any of it so you want to show me and I appreciate that 

I read the post and I agree they did point out pressing issues, although there are also some things I want to say about it. The one that got me the most was how they said that ”[the girls’] character arcs are short and sweet, dealing with simpler issues of self confidence and image“ because it feels like they’re trivializing their troubles just because they aren’t as harsh as Todoroki’s. I’m not too fond of comparing situations, it just... seems unfair. I mean yeah maybe they didn’t go through the same crap Todo did, but we’ve seen how Uraraka and Yaoyorozu suffered because of their personal problems. It’s like that “you can’t be sad because someone out there has it much worse than you” thing again lmao...

Anyway anyway I don’t want to ramble a lot about that, I respect their concerns, and mmmmm I feel like this has all been taken out of context, I don’t think BNHA is free of flaws and stuff, and I don’t think that being dissatisfied with the series or the characters is a disrespectful thing. To each his own. I was just upset at how people reacted to a certain post, where BNHA was grouped together with fanservice-high series like B/leach (dude you know B/leach was my main fandom for years before I got into BNHA, but even before I’ve never hesitated to criticize it), OP, F/airy T/ail, and K/LK, and how people say that Horikoshi “doesn’t even try” and that the female charas are bland and don’t have interesting points or p much just “creatures that have boobs” and I think that that is just very disrespectful. Horikoshi tries, I’m not saying this because I look up to him; it’s exactly because of this that I ended up looking up to him

Again, I’m not saying BNHA is ~perfect~ and there are no issues with it at all, but I do think that it’s a huge step/improvement in the shounen manga franchise. I can’t force everyone to like it, but it’s a little sad that some people criticize it nonstop because it still has x and y issue and it’s like they disregard every other good thing Hori has done. I’m not saying we can excuse the issues just because it’s doing better in other aspects, not at all, but what frustrates me is that some people even actually say that “it’s like the author doesn’t even try” like! Dude nothing is perfect! Even the best stuff will have some issues! But people are so ready to disregard 9 achievements because 1 thing failed! So!