#it expands the universe to much like you are seeing an untold legend etc

[phoenixtakaramono]

Does Bing gē Have Descendants in ‘The Untold Tale?’

This topic has come up a few times since The Untold Tale takes place in the PIDW universe (post-Bingge vs Bingmei extra), I figured I might as well compile and archive my official answer here for me to refer my AO3 readers to in the future for convenience’s sake. I hope everyone doesn’t mind. :) I’m always happy to answer questions!

TL;DR

Q: Will we see Bing gē having fathered children with his harem of 600 or so wives in TUT?

A: For TUT, the answer is a definite “no.” There were a lot of factors which’d contributed to my decision. I’ll try to explain my reasoning down below.

Context

In PIDW, it is canon that Luo Binghe has a bountiful number of descendants with his harem of 600-or-so wives. It is a detail that has been mentioned even in ch1 of SVSSS and in ep1 of the donghua.

(SVSSS Excerpt - ch1)

(SVSSS donghua - ep1)

I like to plan things ahead of time. So from very early on, I knew this would be something I would have to decide on whether or not to address when I’d finally decided to expand TUT from just a prologue into a full-blown story. And after contemplating it, I decided against adding children into the story. It is because 1) it would make the situation more complicated, and 2) it would take TUT in a different direction that wouldn’t be fun for me to write.

I’m a very decisive writer, meaning when I make my mind up about something, chances are I won’t change my mind. This is because I would have already planned it into my plot outline, which means changing a decision would require me to change other details in the other chapters I have planned for that story. (I’m typically not a spontaneous writer; I try not to write spontaneously because when you’re a writer who rotates through multiple WIPs with different characters across different genres or writing styles, you inevitably have writer’s block because you probably won’t remember all the ideas or the direction you had whenever you return back to a different WIP. To reduce this shortcoming, it helps me personally to have a plot outline. This way I can return to any WIP, read my notes and then transcribe them into legible paragraphs, find a way to transition between the story beats I have to hit for that chapter, and then eventually post the final draft to AO3 when I feel it’s ready.)

Having made a decision, I knew I had to set it up in TUT and give a “reasonable explanation in-story.” Hence, in ch2, we see:

(Excerpt I - ch2)

Basically the set-up is TUT takes place post-Bingge vs Bingmei, but between “the third or fourth book” of the hypothetical PIDW webnovel series aka before Airplane wrote the fanservicey chapters where the luckier of LBH’s wives give birth to children during the harem drama plots and the children are probably rarely, if ever, mentioned again in the story as a lot of stallion novels tend to do.

(Excerpt II - ch2)

(Excerpt III - ch2)

Contrarian Tendencies

You know the saying: Monkey see, monkey do? In my case, it’s monkey see, monkey do not do.

A little fun fact about me as a writer: if I have already seen a fanfic where someone has already written a concept or idea into their story, chances are I will just avoid it entirely in my own stories. I don’t know why this aversion exists, but I’m assuming it’s because of my counterculture hipster inclinations and an intrinsic fear of plagiarism which has been beaten into all of our skulls since adolescence. There’s nothing wrong with being inspired by other people’s works. Technically everything’s been done before in writing so, as a writer, a good rule of thumb is to always try to give it your own unique spin on things. So for me, my brain somehow interpreted this a step further. This is a reason why I try to avoid reading stories from whichever fandom my WIP is from during the writing process of updating a fic, because this is how I get influenced. Once I see an idea or interpretation from another fanfiction, it influences me to not want to write it into my own. This is a very strong unconscious impulse for me. I guess this is just the neurons in my brain’s thinking that this way, it won’t be something my readers will have read before and the story idea will come across as different or fresh, and mine. In a way this is also how I show respect for fanfiction writers in the same fandom—by being inspired to not be inspired, ha. I like to think every story in the world serves a niche audience, so seeing a diverse range of originality and interpretations in a fandom is a good thing. This is also how I feel when I am able to identify certain popular tropes or depictions or patterns in a fandom; 99% of the time, it makes me feel a compulsion to “go against the grain” or write the opposite. For example, you have no idea how long it took me to come around the idea of incorporating the fanon “A-Yuan” into TUT. However cute it is, the moment it dominated the fandom (well, “dominated” is an exaggeration; it’s more like I’ve seen enough, especially in the Original LBH/ SY | SQQ tag), my gut reaction was to nope out of using it. But after seeing a lot of comments in my inbox with readers affectionately calling SY “A-Yuan,” I’d contemplated it for a long time and it wasn’t until ch4 that I decisively decided that yes, I can have Bing gē calling SY “A-Yuan” in TUT—but it has to be at the right moment for maximum dramatic and emotional impact. (See this thread that started it all. And this is the small sneak peek I wrote where LBH will call SY that for the first time.) <- This is the rare 1% where I actually conformed to what’s popular.

In this case, when I finally decided to expand the prologue into a full-blown story, coincidentally I had just recently read a good Binggeyuan (Bingyuan) fanfic which featured a kidnapped Shen Yuan interacting with Bing gē’s harem and LBH’s children/descendants. I’d liked their portrayal and even thought the children were cute. <- However, with me having reading this, the problem came up: I felt the familiar stubbornness in me rearing its head. So knowing myself, if I had included children, it is very likely the direction that I would have gone down for TUT would have been the opposite. To further complicate matters, you have to keep in mind the kind of writer I am. I tend to like grounding stories with a semblance of realism, no matter if the genre is pseudohistorical fantasy, romance, sci-fi, etc. And this writer has seen and read quite a few harem and palace intrigue Chinese dramas/ premises.

For further context, in those types of “historical” C-dramas^, in that sort of environment which fosters scheming, competition, jealousy, etc, it is almost expected to see heirs aka children aka descendants harmed along with the women. Innocent parties are often victims in these sorts of cutthroat premises, to underscore the underlying message the show or novel wishes to present. (See Ruyi’s Royal Love in the Palace. See Yanxi Palace. See The Legend of Haolan. See Nirvana in Fire. See The Rebirth of the Malicious Empress of Military Lineage. Etc.) And me being me, this would be the direction I would take. Remember, while TUT is meant to emulate a legitimate danmei C-novel reading experience in a fantasy world, I do drop pseudohistorical and cultural Easter eggs into the story. So trust me when I say you would not like the direction TUT would have gone down in, had I made LBH have children with his harem. I mean, theoretically yes, we could’ve seen endearing children characters from me, but you would have also seen me addressing a lot of the baggage that comes with (see Comment III Excerpt down below).

The situation with dissolving Bing gē’s harem is already complicated enough. As his romance with Shen Yuan develops, I didn’t want to have an additional headache thinking about how to address the issue of LBH having children already. Divorces in a pseudohistorical context is already a heavy topic—even more so when it’s divorces with children in the mix. Naturally I will still have SY and LBH eventually discuss the matter of legitimate heirs since LBH will essentially become the Sacred Ruler of all Three Realms and it’s a traditional precedent for an emperor to bed his empress, noble consort, and imperial concubines until he has his heirs (plural, because the rate of mortality was high in ancient China). In TUT’s case, at that point in the story SY will remind LBH that he’s essentially an immortal sovereign so there isn’t any need for an heir unless he wishes to retire. Furthermore, he will inform LBH that he could set a new precedent since he’s already different from the other emperors from history (with him being of half-Heavenly Demon and half-human cultivator lineage); as long as LBH is fully aware of all perspectives of the situation, he doesn’t necessarily need to conform to all traditions if this is something he really feels strongly about. But this future conversation(s) is likely the extent of it.

But wait, you say, what about a certain someone who’s going to be transmigrated as an imperial crown prince? Isn’t he going to be in that sort of vicious upbringing? <- Yes. But that’s an entirely seperate matter. In a way, since I’ve decided Bing gē will not have had any children or descendants in TUT, with Airplane, this now presents an opportunity for me to show the consequences of being one of the many children of an emperor with a harem of women vying for one man’s attention—and the power struggle that’d ensue in this kind of environment. It’s an interesting What-If parallel, if you think about it.

AO3 Comments

Although these are just small excerpts from replies I’ve written before, it’s nice and orderly to just compile them here for everyone since these will be buried underneath all the comments as TUT updates:

(Comment I- ch3)

(Comment II- ch4)

(Comment III- ch4)

Because of seeing comments that have asked me for my thoughts on whether or not I will include LBH’s children, I’ve had so much fun seeing theories thrown around: from LBH’s blood parasites being able to control conception, to someone’s headcanon about LBH being a hybrid and all that entails scientifically (think: mules). I will say in TUT, it’s more the former since in PIDW he’s supposed to have descendants; we’re pretending Bing gē doesn’t have any yet (and now definitely won’t, especially after having heard SY’s “prophecy”) because he subconsciously does not want children due to certain fears, trauma, etc. And his Heavenly Demon’s “blood parasites” (blood manipulation) is a convenient story device to explain why no wife has gotten pregnant yet.

I hope this explanation makes sense! Mainly I just wanted to have this archived on tumblr so that I have this post to refer to moving forward.

On a side note: especially since ch4 had been posted, quite a few people have actually mentioned they’ve read my replies to other comments and/or I have seen different people having hopped onto other readers’ comment threads (for example, imagine my pleasant surprise when I saw a reader you lovely person, you helpfully jumping in to respond to another reader’s questions about TUT, and their answers were actually aligned with what I would’ve answered!), so it’s always such a thrill whenever I see this level of engagement happening. I can’t explain why, but seeing this happening is just so cute to me. It really makes this writer feel so warm and fuzzy inside!

[pandoraships]

Hello! I just read your Shards of Power ff on ao3, and I looooove it, but I gotta say, as someone who doesn't play WOD, it was rather confusing on understanding the system. I was wondering if you have any form of trivia or facts about the universe to understand it better? Thank you

Oh Geeze someone actually read it?! and you like it!? 

First off thank you! Secondly I am so sorry about the confusion! It’s hard to balance story telling with out having Bakugo recount an entire source book to get the information out.

So the world of Darkness is rather thick Lore wise, and, as with all good rpg systems it allows for “different” versions of lore for each type of game. So It can be massively confusing. For this story though we can focus on the “Mage Lore”.

Mages are, as a group, as varied and multifaceted as any human population. They don’t themselves know exactly why they got the power they have, but there are few things they all agree on: 

1. The world is broken into three parts:

The Supernal realms :  This is the world of Truth, and was at one point part of our own world. It is a realm where everything is as it should be. The trees are perfect trees, the mind is not separated form the form, sickness is only there to make you stronger etc. Think Heaven/Nirvana/the summer lands. This world is separated into smaller lands, about 365 of them, and each is ruled by a different truth. 

The Fallen world / The Lie / The Mundane world : This is our world, the one you and I live in every day, but with a twist. Behind the scenes monsters lurk. They have always been with us, and humans stay blissfully unaware. The mages call it the lie, a sort of dream forced on every human through the use of a “sleeping” curse buried in their souls. Soul focused mages call it a “Shard of the lie” because it’s a part of the soul that anchors the lie to a person. It makes them forget, rationalize and dismiss any idea of anything but what the lie wants them to believe. 

Mages are humans whose souls have, at a crucial moments rejected the lie, and rid themselves of the lie to have their eyes opened to their true potential.

The Abyss: If the two worlds were part of one whole the Abyss was never supposed to exist. It is both a force of nature and a sentient angry resentful representation of every reality that never came to be. Because of this it seeks only one thing: To destroy both worlds and place itself in it’s place. It is the antithesis of truth and the lie. It is simply oblivion. 

It was summoned into being when the Worlds split apart, like an infinite ocean between the two. 

2.   Magic comes from the Supernal realm, crosses the abyss and powers spells. 

All magic is from the Supernal realm end of story. When the world split magic left, and it was only through some miracle that a few people managed to shake off the fall out and adapt to pull the power down to them. So far 10 of the realms have been accessed by Mages, through 5 paths that bridge the Abyss. Those realms are 

The Aether: Realm of the Obrimos. 

Most often called “Heaven” by those who misunderstand the path, The Aether is a place of Order and Power. It gifts those who walk their paths to it access to Prime, the coding of magic and the truth of the world above, and Forces, the powers of the forces of the universe, such as gravity, heat, kinetic force, speed.  

It’s Watchtower, the guiding anchor point of a path, calls to those willing to see beyond their own needs to the needs of others, and as such it has gotten a reputation for attracting religious types, but really anyone who believes in something larger than themselves will awaken to the Truth of this realm. 

Izuku awakened here because he so desperately believed that someone had to make things right that it allowed him to reach out to it. 

Arcadia: Realm of the Acanthus.

 Arcadia is a place of Time and Fate, where everything is bound by oaths and the cycles of time. Closely associated with the Fae this is the world that King Uther Pendragon went to visit to get Excalibur. To those willing to bargain with it for power it gifts control over Time, allowing them to swim against the tides, and Fate, the ability to create, destroy or enforce the threads that guide every person through their life. 

It’s Watchtower calls to those who trust to fate, or struggle to fight against it. It has a reputation for calling to fools, people unwilling to take control of themselves and their fate. Yet more than most Acanthus are the hardest to fool, as they can see the past present a future. 

Bakugo awoke to this path in a moment of need, but he won’t speak to anyone about it. 

The Primal Wilds : Realm of the Thyrsus. 

The Primal Wilds is a place of ever expanding Life and the Spirit of the world. It is the world untouched by humans, where boars the size of mountains roam through trees the size of skyscrapers. Those who can survive it’s trials wrest from it control over Life and Spirit.  They can control, create, destroy, change and bind both. 

it’s watch tower summons those willing to forgo the mores of society, or those willing to do what it takes to survive. It has a reputation for calling people who are brutish or violent. It also tends to call those unwilling to follow the norms of society. That being said you can find those who passed their challanges anywhere, from the Woods to a dance floor and even a boardroom in a fortune 500 compant.

Kirishima awoke to this, along with another mage, during a struggle that made him question what society wanted him to do. 

The Underworld / Stygia : Realm of the Moros. 

This, out of all the Realms, is the closest you come to a true heaven. It’s a realm of vast material wealth and rest for the shades that wander it. Damaged during the split of the worlds it is also the closest to the Abyss. It is here that all souls eventually travel to, but for those who seek to return from death and succeed it grants it’s boon. For those it chose they stand with one foot in the grave, able to speak to Ghosts, revive the dead in a way, and grant ultimate death of oblivion to their enemies. At the same time it gives all that a living mortal would need to keep themselves alive, allowing them control over the Matter of the world. Stone to bread, lead to gold, glass to jewels, all simple tasks of rearranging the basics of the world. 

It’s watch tower calls to those who realize in their last moments what it means to be alive. It grants them a second chance, a reprieve from their rest, to will themselves back.  It has a reputation for making boring mages, those that would rather tinker with the worlds systems than make big changes. The thing is Moros know well that nothing is permanent, even the massive changes, so you want to make the process better.  

An unknown mage awoke to this path because he refused to leave someone alone to fight on his own. 

Pandemonium: The realm of the Mastigos 

If the Aether is “Heaven” than Pandemonium is “Hell, but only by the ill informed. Yes it is a realm of the human mind, where all our demons and ills lurk, but it is also a realm of ever shifting perspectives and intimacy untold. It is the realm where you know yourself truly, and either you accept it or you die. For those who drag themselves through the gauntlet that this path is it gives them all the tools needed to enforce their Will on the world. They come back able to command their lesser Minds with a simple word, and makes them like it. No thought, No action, is safe from them. They can be anywhere at any time, Space is nothing to them, no walls can keep them out. 

An unknown mage awoke to this when he decided enough was enough and sent a family members mind into the void. 

There are, according to legend, more but only these have been confirmed. 

3. Sleepers cannot know, or at least until the shed their lie. 

While opinions on Sleepers vary massively from mage to mage, it is a fact that Sleepers knowing is Bad News ™. The lie that infects them eats away at magic, and can, if the magic is flashy enough, cause the Abyss to notice the casting of a spell and mess with it.  There are stories of a Mage casting a spell in front of sleepers once and turning himself inside out. Little things cause less risk, but it’s always there.  Some sleepers can shed that lie slowly, but it can cause them to go mad if you force it. 

These are pretty much the only thing every mage agrees on. Everything else depends on what you choose to believe and the society you belong to. 

Mage Society : Origins

Almost every Mage is told this when they first awaken, but no one ever can agree on the specifics, or even if it’s a real thing. The only reason it’s told is because it explains the Social order now. 

Once long ago there was a shining city, built by dragons who called to the Dreamers, people from all across the world, from every tribe and continent. They came and found that the Dragons had left, only their bones lay sleeping in the caves below the city. 

The Dreamers found they were gifted with power by these bones, given strenght for having traveled to claim it. They made their homes there, and began to strengthen themselves.  They elected Mage kings, and for many centuries sought to seek enlightenment. 

But as with all power there are those who want it faster than it comes, and soon there was a split in the city, between those loyal to the dragon dream, and those who wanted to go straight to the source.  They wrested power from those loyal and set to building a great ladder to the source of truth. 

A great war broke out between them, and the Dreamers were winning. In desperation those who built the Ladder, Now known as the Exarchs, fled up the ladders, with the leaders of the Dreamers, known as the Oracles, in hot pursuit. They fought in the true world and   in the fight the Ladder fell, ripping the world apart below them, and summoning the abyss. 

In the ages that followed even the great mages were susceptible to the lie, and forgot their gifts. Yet the Oracles were not lost. They went and built watch towers in each of their realms, and called to the brethren to reclaim the dream.  

The Exarchs though fought to keep the lie in place, so they would not need to share their power. To this day they struggle, across the panes of Truth and in the Fallen world. 

Mage Society : A primer.

Again, Mages are as Diverse as they are numerous. Mages exist in every country, demographics group, and political movement you can think of. That being said there are 3 main groups that exist consistently across the spectrum. 

The Diamond Orders/ The Pentacle : 

Known as the ���Inheritors of Atlantis” these are the people who want to reunite magic with the world. This is who our main cast belong to. Depending on a couple of factors they separate themselves into 4 or 5 main groups.  Those are: 

The Diamond Orders: 

Considered the Original orders, these four Orders fashion themselves off the Orders of the Dragons from the Supposed original mage city of Atlantis. When this city fell during the splitting of the worlds they reformed and attempted to hold the worlds together. 

The Adamantine Arrow: 

Also known as :  Talons of the Dragon. 

These are warrior mages, who believe that conflict is natural and place themselves in between the threats of the Lie and their comrades. They delicate themselves to keeping all in their range safe as the war rages. They reject high offices to instead serve. The pledge Oaths and are honor bound to keep them, and often will die in pursuit of them. 

The Silver Ladder : 

Also known as : The Voice of the Dragon 

The Ladder are the diplomats and law keepers of the Diamond orders. They form themselves into a sort of Meritocratic cooperation, where you work your way up into power.  They task themselves with keeping track of the Awakened and providing for what they need. They handle disputes and law breaking with in the Concillium, (a group of mages in any give area ) and advise the head of the government. They also work as go between for neighboring groups to make sure that if needed they can help against threats.  They hope one day if they can make everyone cooperate they might be able to charge the abyss and reclaim what they lost. 

The Guardians of the Veil : 

Also known as : The Eye of the Dragon 

The Gaurdians are the cover up agency, think men in black but for magic. They believe that unchecked magic is Dangerous ™  and who has access to it should be controlled carefully, until the world is back together that is. They fight against things that the Arrows can’t, like dangerous items, creatures from the abyss, and spies in the various orders ranks. They believe that if they get their hands dirty they will spare others from doing it. 

The Mysterium: 

Also known as : The Wings of the Dragon 

These are the closest to “Traditional” Mages your going to get. They thirst for Knowledge and attempt to find and catalog every magical thing they can find. Think Indiana Jones meets your local Librarian. They experiment and push the limits of magic, and hope that one day they can find the missing link to tie the world together. 

The Free Councils: 

Also known as : The Fire of the Dragon. 

While not technically incorporated into the Diamond there is a Fifth “Order” called the Free council. Having been brought in very late (like during the Enlightenment era) These are still considered outsiders in their Conciliation, and tend to try to distance themselves from the more traditional orders. Still when push comes to shove the Councils are counted as invaluable to the Traditional orders.  

They tend to be made up of who ever agrees on 3 key principals: 

1) Hierarchy enforces the Lie 

2) Every human is Magical already, it’s just about waking them up. 

3) Seers are evil and must be overthrown. 

The Councils are loosely connected world wide, and each adopts their own style of governance. Most likely this takes the form of a town hall meeting is a with elected officials being offered as “representatives” to the various Diamond orders so they can vote in the Larger Concillium. Sometimes if they are particularly in disagreement with the Diamond they task these representatives with driving the other orders insane. They also have developed and maintained as sort of “Free council” web which they use to keep in contact. 

When referring to the Orders they often use the term “Pentacle” to include themselves. 

The Nameless: 

Neutral Mages, people who don’t believe the world is broken, or who just wants to do their own thing. These are also those who aren’t fully awakened, called hedge mages. They are considered as people who come from mages who never involved themselves in the war. 

The Seers : 

If the Pentacle inherited Atlantis these are the servants of the people who built the ladder. Gifted power in a way different the the Pentacle they worship the Exarchs as gods. They want to enforce the status Quo for various reasons, both personal and greed based. They do not see those who are outside of their group as worthy of the blessings and have no qualms with using them to their ends. They are specifically very adverse to the Free Council and often fight them openly in the streets. 

Pentacle mages : Day to Day life. 

Mages in the Five Pentacle orders tend to group themselves into 3 main social groups. 

The Order: 

The Largest is that of their order, where they move up the ranks in the Specific group. This gains them access to secrets they would not normally have, and allows them to amass status they can use in other Concillium.  This works because most mages in an order agree on a basic understanding of the best way to enlightenment. 

Each order has their own structure, but it works a lot like a secret club, with ranks that decide on policy for the order. 

E.g. Suneater is Riot’s First Talon, he is the leader of his group of Arrows and makes plans for the group as a whole. 

The Path : 

Like an extended family the path is a group of people who all share the same basic powers. While you can gain some titles in a path it’s usually something akin to a chosen rep to the Pentacle as a whole than anything like true power. Here the Mages find those who can teach them how to use their power mechanically.  The two titles assigned  to paths are “councilor” who works as a Council member and represents the Path of the city, and Provost, who works as a Secretary to both the Council as a whole, but primarily to their singular councilor. 

E.g. Present Mic is the Provost to the Obrimos Councilor of the city Eraser-head. Their task together is to track the Obrimos of the city and keep them from trouble.  Present mic Techincally also has a section of smaller groups of mages in a specific area of the city that he is expected to represent to the council as a whole, like a provincial governor to the Larger government. 

The Cabal: 

The smallest group of Mages, these are chosen pact bound relationships that in theory are completely chosen by the mages in question. They tend to have 3-5 members, with the idea being 5 members, 1 from each path.  That doesn’t mean that single path cabals don’t exist, they just aren’t considered ideal. 

Cabals are supposed to be formed around an idea or goal all members have, though most do it for resources or companion ship. 

When formed a cabal pledge an oath towards each other to bind them together. It’s very much like a mutual adoption thing, or a forming of a pack. 

They have roles, like people who go out and get everyone fed, or the scribe of the group, or the tender of the magical items, but most modern day Cabals only assign them to give a sense of whose in charge in that area. They expect everyone in the cabal to pitch in if they can. 

This is seen as a family unit. That means nothing, not the Order or path, can ask you in good faith to betray them . Arrows will not be charged to attack their own, Guardians never are asked to report on them, etc. 

This also means that taking a lover in this group is at some very basic level, considered weird. It can, with some more traditional types, cause you to be looked down on, but It’s not something most younger mages bat an eyelash at. 

Facts and figures: 

1 in 100,000 people successfully awaken  to a watch tower or through the Exarchs

Of the three groups the lowest number of people are in the Pentacle, followed by the nameless, and then the Seers are the most. 

There are further subgroups with in the nameless, such as people who worship the Abyss, those who came back “wrong” and others who want to purge the world of all magic. 

If you have any clarifications I have missed @freezesunshinebreeze or even further questions please feel free to ask!