#it wasnt that perverted imo

[cannedbeefaroni]

I watched The Girl Next Door and holy fuck what the fuck did i just watch

honestly this has to be the most painful watch of my life. so many moments made me cover my eyes and verbally say "ew."

despite that blaring issue, this movie is the fucking goat. this shit makes so little sense but its so profound. this movie is so strangely feminist for a 2004 comedy. danielle is an extremely well written female character for the time period, though i have to admit she is a bit of a manic pixie dream girl (which imo isnt a bad thing).

the beginning of the movie that showcased all the high schoolers doing high school things was mega cringe and made me want to gouge my eyes out.

danielle's creepy ex also sucked and he wasnt enjoyable as an antagonist in my opinion.

I think Eli and Klitz really made the movie. I found them both extremely funny and adorable. Matt was a bit of a bland character but he was very kind, and it was amusing watching him take L after L. The trio as a whole were perfect and I loved how they interacted.

Special shout out to Eli. He has to be my favorite character from the movie. Such a pervert but he has such a heart of gold. Everything he did in that entire movie was so funny to me.

final note: the fact that Klitz APPARENTLY has a canonically massive dong makes me want to cry. i dated a guy who looks almost exactly like him and he, as well, had a monster cock. REMEMBER TO GET OVER YOUR EXES KIDS!!!

i give this movie a 9/10. yes it made me convulse but no other movie has ever driven this much emotion out of me and i applaud that. i want to give wet kisses to eli and klitz.

[petewentzisblack1312]

I feel like such a fake fan when I say this but idk I got into FOB during AB/AP era, and I was already of the mindset that their pre-hiatus stuff was better even though I was like, 7 back then lmao. But anyway I remember vividly watching the y&m video when it dropped and being like “wow I hate this” and I didn’t give mania a chance at all after that. I think it was the abrasive chorus and just feeling like they were selling out (which I realize now is NOT what they were doing)

Anyway I recently got back into FOB (not that I ever really stopped listening to them but I just got into a hyperfixation again) and idk a couple mania songs would come on Pandora that I liked, like HOLD ME TIGHT OR DONT and The Last of the Real Ones… but anyway I decided to listen to it in full and… it’s hands down the best album they’ve put out since they came back from hiatus. It’s the sharpest Pete’s lyrics have been since then, it sounds amazing… I wish I’d given it a chance when it came out.

I don’t think y&m was the best lead off single, IMO it should have been HOLD ME TIGHT but… y&m does get too much hate. And I’ve really grown to like it now. I think that for me now I also listen to Nine Inch Nails obsessively, like I listen to pretty much everything Trent Reznor touches nowadays bc he is another music brain I truly would love to understand - on the level of Patrick tbh. But NIN was always doing weird instrumental shit and while they never chopped up vocals like y&m, it reminds me of them tbh, like pushing envelopes and seeing what you can do with music if you bring programming and computer shit in that my brain cannot comprehend but listens to and goes “hmmmm very nice”. It took me three years to come back to y&m but I appreciate it much more now bc I have expanded my music taste in general over the years. Idk I think bc y&m was more like electro or whatever I assumed they were trying to cash in on trends? But that wasn’t even what was popular then? Like no one was doing what they did with the chorus of a song as far as I know. But I know it did turn me off from listening to the album and I’m mad at myself but at least I have given it a fair chance now and got to experience Church bc oml it tingles my lapsed Catholic nerve endings.

y&m very much is not a single at all. like i dont mean its a bad single i mean it literally isnt a single, its an artsy experimental song, and i do agree that there are better lead singles to hook people onto the album like hmtod or even stay frosty but releasing y&m first wasnt a mistake on their part, they literally expected that exact reaction. im not sure exactly why they wanted to get the weird stuff out there first for the album impression, maybe to establish this was a more serious album from ab/ap? but i respect the decision to put out the most polarizing and weird song first to get the whole "we like your older stuff better" deal over with. like it didnt do them any favours but i think that was the plan. people acted like them saying "this isnt a single" was just saving face but its literally not a single. they released it as one, but its not written like one. one criticism i heard was that the lyrics were too much like a rap song. selling out indeed smh.

also. boy do i relate to listening to church while being excatholic. i love perverting christian symbology so much. its like the opposite of conversion therapy.

[thesharondefenseleague]

mlm imo werent sexualized to the degree that wlw were in most canon media mostly because of the male gaze. Gay and Lesbian relationships or moments got very limited representation. One was probably more sympathetic but also heart breaking like say brokeback mountain. One was explicit but depicted as grotesque or twisted or perverted or immoral in some way. And the last version was the titillating version. In western media because of the assumed straight male gaze lesbians making out to titlate guys was a common thing like say in Jennifer's body. The equivalent of that with guys wasnt really that common not in western media. Not that wlw couldn't like that content but it was made to be fanservice for men .

So thats what I kind of mean by wlw were sexualized at least in western media. This equivalent with mlm in fandom never really existed they never made out for girls to find hot in the same way. It was never marketed like oh look hot guys making out. Fandom did that but not canon.

As for comic book men being sexualized kind of. There is definitely the unrealistic beauty standards but theres that debate of was it for the purpose of titillating women? Or a result of toxic masculinity putting this unattainable unsustainable goal for men. Maybe both? But both in comics and the movies they are based on the posing and clothing and moments with women get made to clearly sexualize them . It especially ovbious with comics with them twisting their bodies so their boobs and butts are jutting out. Or like movie moments like Bruce landing in Natasha's clevage. Or angles where you are staring down a female character's shirt or she has a boob window for some contrived reason. Or just reasons to give full page spreads of them in skimpy clothing.

Its rare men get depicted like this or posed like this. And when they do it often stands out because its not the norm. It's something unique. Not true with men. Even in form fitting spandex they are often posed and framed to make to make them look powerful or intelligent or to reveal things about their character.

Again not that men never get sexualized or that fanservice is always bad. Or that its not a concern that men are having these terrible body image issues. But just that for women for the sexualization its so pervasive and constant was my point.

Its just as bad in wlw in canon as it is for women in relationships with men in canon when it comes to that sexualization but i hear so much more about the problems about the wlw ship than the mlw ship. Like to use DC as a example i hear so much about how people sexualized or mishandle harleyivy but compared to that i hear very little about batcat in comparison even though Catwoman is often just as sexualized in that ship.

As for misogyny in shipping wars yes it definetly exists and is a problem as is racism and homophobia. But my issue is mostly that the problem isnt because the main popular ships are mlm. But so often I see the argument framed that way.

Like shipping wars existed between m/w ships and still do today. And they are still often pretty misogynistic towards the woman in the other ship. I don't even have to look at other fandoms I remember Steggy vs Starton getting real ugly.

Mysogny in fandom doesn't uniquely pop up when mlm are the more popular ship. Its often just as bad in fandoms where m/w is the popular ship. But people just bring it up alot more they make it bout valuing the men over the women .

Well i mean that goes both ways you could say its homophobic for valuing the straight ship as better than the gay one or liking it more. But either way its stupid they dont care bout sexism or homophobia only that their ship is more popular.

Thats the sentiment of all ship wars the gender dynamics and racial make up change nothing. Nothing except the bullshit you use for the ship war.

The problem is that people are being homophobic and mysogynistic and racist not just in regards to fictional characters but towards real people just to win a ship war. It comes out so easily. Thats the problem imo.

Mysogny for example i think isnt discussed as much when its a m/w vs m/w ship war or drama because as both ships have women it can't be used to slander the other ship. But when its drama between fans of a m/m and m/w it comes out alot again not because anyone really cares but because now because one ship lacks a woman it can be used as fodder for what people actually care about. Tearing down the other ship.

Again not that mlm fandom doesnt have mysogny. They definetly do. But they aren't mysogynistic because they ship two guys together. Thats not proof they hate women. Having a ship with women isnt proof that you aren't sexist towards women. There might be homophobia in fandoms of mlm ships and mysogny in fandoms of m/w ships.

But in the drama between a m/w and m/m ships that doesn't get brought up because no one cares if that problem can't be used to show that someone only doesn't ship your ship if they are bigoted against it. Who cares about misogyny if your ship is two guys? Who cares about homophobia if your ship is straight?

No one because they cared about the popularity of their ship not the actual issues.

Gonna under under the cut for length again.

This is a lot to read so I'm gonna respond paragraph by paragraph and hope for the best in terms of comprehension.

When it comes to media made about the LGBTQ+ community, you have to keep in mind when it was made, who made it, and who was it made for. And that it's been shown that straight women have had the same reactions to mlm content as straight men to wlw content. QaF was dumbfounded to find that the majority of their audience was straight women when the show's sex scenes were 95% between two or more men and yet that's what they ran with because hey, it got the views. The views of mlm and wlw content in the mainstream media before then was minimized, despite how fucked a lot of the other content could be. If by "most canon media" being directed at the male gaze being summer blockbusters, and more specifically comic book movies, then sure. If we step out of that box, then not really. The film examples you chose are interesting because BB is portrayed exactly how the author of the original short story wrote it which was meant to be heartbreaking since it was a tragic dramatic piece while JB has a woman who wrote and another woman who directed it while purposefully trying to allow to actress to have a level of sexuality without exploiting her as past directors have (also neither of the main characters are lesbians - one is bi, the other I think is straight but maybe questioning?).

The sexualization of wlw in modern western media is definitely a thing. I mean, the first Iron Man film has stewardesses on the private jet pole dancing if I remember correctly. It took until 2016 to stop sexualizing Scarlett in every movie: the changing scene in IM2, the lowered zipper in A1, the ass shot in Cap 2, the boob faceplant in AoU (in your third paragraph, but mentioning it here anyway). It's a joke that you know when a man directs a wlw indie film during the sex scenes. But the mlm equivalent did exist alongside it, and it's what kicked off the century.

Comics and their movies were always for men. The male bodies are male wish fulfilment for their physical appearance. The women are male wish fulfilment for their dream girls. Funnily enough, one of the least sexualized women in comics I've ever read is Sharon. She's rarely, if ever, drawn to be sexualized for the audience. I'm not even sure she's even been in those swimsuit issues Marvel did years ago. And it shows heavily that Marvel struggles to know how to appeal to women without being aggressively in your face about it. The best example of them appealing without pandering is WV, and the worst is the group shots the Russos did in IW and Endgame, especially the latter.

But the men get those poses in the movies too. Thor bathed shirtless for no reason in TDW. There's a scene in Endgame dedicated to talking about Steve's ass. Pratt in GotG. Rudd in Ant-Man. Most actors are expected to look good shirtless and put themselves through intense shit to look that way. So do the women, but they aren't doing it to have the glamor shots of their muscles. And the MCU is not the only film franchise like this. Most, if not all, franchises with majority or entirely male leads expects them all to look like bodybuilders. And I'm gonna take back that it's just for the male audience, because these bodies are meant to appeal to women who are intended to thirst for these actors too. They think these bodies is what will bring women to the theaters.

None of this will change, as you say, that women's sexualization is "constant and pervasive". The film industry is just a part of the larger whole of media. Television and advertising have a treatment of women that's beyond whatever you or I say because there are decades worth of shit to go through that would take dozens of essays worth of writing to fully divulge beyond "please stop it's gross".

Now DC is a whole other ballgame. They're pretty infamous for their artists' sexualization of heroines and villainesses. Harley, Ivy, and Selina are definitely pretty bad, but when I remember what I've seen drawn of Kara, Kori, or sometimes Barbara... But outside of one artist, I think Harley and Ivy as a couple have been drawn tamely. Can't say the same for Selina, because they just can't not draw every part of her body even when she's fully clothed.

I think it's hard not to talk about fandom misogyny outside of m/m ships because of how often popular m/m shippers have rooted their shipping into misogyny. And even with m/f ship wars, a lot of the time the "faulted" character is always the woman when majority of the time it's the man who sucks. I don't get why everyone is fighting for who should kiss Steve because Steve sucks and they'd be better off without him. But because Steve is the object of affection for our fave, we have to fight off everyone else.

Don't look at other fandoms for m/f ship wars. We don't appreciate how tame we were, even at our worst. I'm serious, I've seen so much worse.

I think why the topic of misogyny comes up more with m/m ships is because they follow a similar principle of the male characters being more developed in canon and fanon so it's who people gravitate towards.

There is definitely layers of homophobia in fandom, but there's many versions of how we see it. Homophobes who won't ship anything that's not m/f. Homophobes who ship m/m but won't support IRL rights. People who love m/m but abhor f/f, and vice-versa. The shippers who use them for personal fodder. But the sexism is more prevalent than the homophobia. And the racism way more than both combined.

And it does cause a lot of ammo, and much of it severely unjustified, in ship wars. Literally the bullshit I've seen pulled out of thin air to accuse Sharon of not being worthy because someone said she's a racist for [they literally had no reason just called her one because we said Sam and Sharon are friends because they are] and other nonsense.

The real world repercussions of the homophobia, the sexism, and the racism in fandom... there's just so much. Like we are all still people, and yet we decide because we hide behind screens to be antagonistic, and use homophobic, sexist, and racist shit to attack each other over ships just because we want to paint the other person as crazy, I guess? If you can't see that there are no enemies in ship wars and that the other side is still people, maybe you need to sit out and log off. It's baffling how often it still happens to people. Then it's no longer about ships, it's about who is an asshole.

I will say that Steve and Peggy vs Steve and Sharon is probably the only m/f ship war I've seen where misogyny is talked about. Is, not was, because it still is. Both sides call the others misogynistic. I don't think either side is, but you can see in individuals. Those who tweeted at a certain actress that she was a slut for kissing her costar certainly are though.

You are right that shipping m/m isn't inherently sexist. But tearing down women in those ships to prop up m/m has made me stop shipping certain characters altogether. People, seriously, we don't have to justify why we like them! We can just like them! And other characters can still exist! It's never been that deep.

And you're right, the popularity of the ship helps people ignore any deeper issues within them and this is a power used to silence valid criticism if it pops up.

(I hope I answered everything well for you.)

~Mod R

[dbzebra]

☕️ OH YKNOW WHAT AT THAT NOTE? Talk about that dbs broly movie cuz yknow. That’s a hot topic of the ages that folk feel particularly really strongly about

ooooh ive been waiting for this one. We watched this together on discord so you know my general feelings but Im happy i got this ask lol.

putting this under read more cause it gets long 

The new movie that everyone seems to love and adore.... that I dont. It was a pretty middle of the ground, meh overrated af movie. Not bad, just nothing special. I enjoyed watching it sure, but not something I have an inkling to return to anytime soon if ever. It was just ‘there’ for me. 

First, I’ll say the good stuff. The visuals looked really pretty. Nobody was THAT out of character of the existing cast (save for the ending), which i feel weird to have to even mention it as a positive, but nothing really stood out to me as a defining moment for the little cast we had besides Goku’s “youre not a bad guy, i can tell” or w/e. SUPER SAIYAN 1 IS STILL GOAT. It looked soooo good in this movie i wish we couldve kept it the whole time instead of Blue. But i will say, Blue looked much better in this movie than the series. The darker-blue with the lighter blue eyes was a nice change from instead of the ugly bluish-green the series did. Also the aura looked better. Backgrounds like the ice area and even Planet Vegeta were amazing. Action was great too. little Bulla was cute. The OST i liked (the chanting really grew on me) and Blizzard is a banger i love that song. Oh and the aritisic license they took for the fusion scene with the reds and blues spiraling together was great

Anyway thats all the positives I have lmaoo

This film includes Minus and I already went in depth on why I hate Minus with a passion and why it’s the worst thing to come out of modern Dragon so yeah moving on. But the fact that they devoted screentime to Gokus backstory which ultimately served no purpose to the story of the film and couldve been used more valuably elsewhere. 

I said the action was good, and it was, but it almost too good. At times it was so fast to tell that was going on and really lessened the impact for me. Like when they went into the other dimension or whatever, Gogeta went blue and Broly went LSSJ (idc if the name is different name, itll always be legendary SSJ to me lmao) so ast it was a blink and you miss it moment. like what? those moments shouldve been given even a little bit of focus. 

Next the cast. Goku and Vegeta. AGAIN. snorefest. no Gohan, Piccolo is just there to show them the fusion, Goten and Trunks are still kids and look like babies (and Pilaf gang is with them which is another can of worms), no Android 17, who the series established as one of the top 4 fighters on Earth. 

Do we get any of that? Nope. Just the two Blue and Bluer fucking again and again I. dont. care. anymore. Their dynamic is so boring and played out id rather watch paint dry. It was fun in Buu Saga, hell it was even fun in GT, but DBS constantly forcing this dynamic and Vegeta as the second Main Character needs to fucking STOOOP. Toei and Toriyama has no idea how to further Vegeta’s character because theyre stuck in this infinite loop. 

Vegeta doesnt want to help Goku, he mentions Bulma and/or Trunks, Vegeta blushes, and then he decides to help. THAT HAPPENED LIKE SIX TIMES IN DBS ALONE. It happened in Buu saga as well, but it organically worked cause it was the first time but Bulma and Trunks were ALREADY DEAD/ABSORBED. The look on his face wasnt blushy or pouting for a gag, dude was legit shocked. I rag on Vegeta but he had some legit great moments in the early arcs and later parts of Buu Saga. Anyway im off track. They repeat that same exact character moment OVER AND OVER. cant tell you how many times we had “my Bulma, my bulla, my Trunks, my cabba” in the Tournament of Power alone, and this movie is no different.

DO SOMETHING ELSE FFS

Then we have Broly. ohhhhhh boooy Broly. if you can even call this version of him Broly. His backstory is kinda the same as original movie 8/Broly LSSJ, but its more tragic becuase according to most fans, if youre background is a sobstory, that equals better character. NO. sure it could, but that trope was so worn out so long ago I hate it. “waaa his life was bad, hes not a bad guy” bruh i dont care thats not Broly. just make an OC if you wanna do that. but nope. gotta use the marketing! (More on that later)

People like to criticize Z Broly as “he hates Goku cause he cried” or “all he says is Kakarot” which both are false. On the first point, Broly is a psychopath. He was stabbed as an infant and left to die along with Paragus cause he was too powerful. Then that same day Planet Vegeta explodes practically on top of them. The rest of his life hes basically either being controlled or on a rampage. So that one moment of peace is “ruined” by Goku in a sense cause he subconsciously associates that with Goku. On the second point, Broly was already mentally unstable and then nearly dying, getting caught in the explosion of a SECOND PLANET and then being frozen for seven years will fuck anyone up in the head. Z Broly in the original movie was sadistic af and he had a lot of memorable moments and lines that werent just screaming Kakarot, that Second Coming made him infamous for. 

New Broly is legit a man-baby. People talk about old Broly having no personality and this new version having a deep character, but I dont see it. He acts like a child when hes with Cheelai and Lemo and then once the fighting starts he doesnt say a single word but yell. SOUND FAMILIAR?? But he gets a pass because the canon police says so right??? fuck off. New Broly is boring. Im tired of trying to make the Saiyans into ThEyRe noT aLl BaD sEe The SaIyAns ArE AcTuAlLy GoOd!!!11111 ugh i hate it. keep Broly a psycho and keep Bardock a prick. even that guy that went with Buzz Lightyear I mean Paragus was a sweet guy who couldnt fight because of course he was. At least they kept Paragus being a prick when he killed him. Tho his death was lame. 

Cheelai’s overrated af. Shes just green bulma lmao. and the fact that they included the “big soft-spoken man gets mad and saves girl from drunk lowkey-rapey pervert” trope just had me roll my eyes like dude stop. Lemo was fine? Nothing against him but didnt do much for me either.

FUCK. FREEZA. i went over this one before too so ill be quick with this as well. I hate hate hate the fact that they brought him back not once but twice in DBS, but even worse that they left him alive to do whatever tf he wants including going back to mass murdering people and expanding his army again. Goku and Vegeta just LET HIM LIVE. Why tf did they go all out and attack Broly, but not Freeza? when one of them was fighting Broly th other easily could have taken out freeza but nope we need a token villain like Joker or Skeletor cause unoriginality. Even at the end, Gogeta does a full power blast to wipe Broly tf out, but when Freeza tries to kill Cheelai and Lemo (two innocent people, feelings on them aside) Gogeta basically just shakes his finger like nuh-uh! dont do that! and then he flies off. Just let this mfer die already im sick of seeing his ass. FUCK I HATE IT SO MUCH GFGFFGFGFGF

Lastly this movie is legitimately Dragon Ball Fanservice The Movie. 

Gogeta vs Broly, which the games have been doing since fucking 2003, is the main point of this film. Theres no originality whatsoever. Minus is discount Father of Goku special, and then its a mashup of Broly LSSJ and Fusion Reborn (both of which are superior movies imo). This creatively banrkupt shell of a franchise cant think of anything new, so they legit remake an old movie, through in fusions because that sells like hotcakes, and make the animation pretty because thats all that matters.

Imo, this movie, like 99% of Super, is all flash and flair but no substance at all. At least this movie looked nice. unlike the show. 

ok thats all i got lmao