#kind of - its rambling about vivs design a bit?

[starrysharks]

Hihihi!! Sorry if youve been asked this before, but do u have any method for when u design characters or do you sort of just "go with the flow"? I love pretty much every single one of ur designs, theyre always so full of color and so authentic and so sososo so cool

no, i don't think i've been asked this before! when it comes to designing characters, i'd say a lot of characters "design themselves" - like their design will slowly change as i edit their personality. savory is a good example of this. but otherwise, when designing a character, there are 4 key factors: color, concept, shape, and personality. personality being the key, as it determines every other factor and usually comes first after concept when i get a new design idea.

so let's say i suddenly had an idea for a character who is a catholic schoolgirl assassin! that's the concept. i'll look at various sources from different places to educate the design - what is commonly associated with catholicism, schoolgirls, and assassins? i'll often lift things from these sources for the design (such as a weapon - "say, maka from soul eater is a schoolgirl who kills, and she has a scythe, how about my character have one too?" as an example.) and think about the personality at this time. usually the personality/goals are to benefit the story they belong too, but they have to be unique to others in the story who share similar goals. often based on symbolism (so let's say, "all these other assassins are based on deadly sins, let's make this one 'envy'"!).

by now i have a rough idea of what my character will look like because i know she'll be wearing a school uniform, and i know she'll have a sharpish, envious personality - so she'll have sharp edges and a lot of crosses dotted around the design. this is shapes - which also ties into silhouette. there are a lot of base silhs that i use as ref such as top-heavy/bottom-heavy designs based on either body shape or clothing shape or both. now, the hardest part most of the time, especially if the character will be part of a larger cast, is choosing the colors. they should be able to express the personality while looking different to everyone else. i always struggle with this -_- but eventually i'll get it. in this case, desaturated shades of green and red accents. and so we have our character design of vivica de la crux! color - red and desaturated greens/grays, concept - catholic schoolgirl assassin, shape - i guess flowing? it's like a school uniform with a longish skirt, and personality - sharp and envious (though there's more to her than that!)

vivica's just an example here, but this is sort of how i go by designing characters. i always look at a lot of different sources like video games, anime, etc (id say my biggest chara design sources/inspos are disgaea, pokemon, soul eater, panty and stocking, and similar stuff, as well as individual artists.) i'm sorry this is so long but as always i hope it was at least interesting!

[bob-dude]

Some Orange Jerk’s Hazbin thoughts, the longer version.

As I mentioned in a prior post, I  thought the pilot was so-so. Don't hate it with a capital H but find everyone's love for this show to be... odd. Though considering the late 2000s Devinart vibe I get from the show’s art style, probably not too odd now that I think about it. So here’s my longer, more rambly, thoughts on Hazbin Hotel by some rando Orange Jerk on Tumblr.  And as always, more power to ya if you do love it, obviously.

Art direction wise, I’m just not crazy about Viv’s color choice. The red and black and pinks give a Valintine’s day meets Wonderland Queen of Hearts vibe that just doesn't personally work for me on a visual level. 

As for hell itself, I thought the background stuff like ‘Radio Hack’ and the main city being named Pentagram to be... eh? Like, that’s the kind of world-building we’re going with here? It felt less like Hell and more like a city with the trapings of Hell, at least for me. 

So, main cast, the trio as it were. Eh. Meh. Like, Charlie is a Disney Princess of Hell... even though no one treats her as one respect wise which just strikes me as odd from a background perspective. And Charlie has that standard Disney nativity going on... even though she was born and raised in Hell? Like, why bother to make your most optimistic and native character a denizen of hell if she’s not going to look or act the part personality wise?

The reason the personality thing confuses me I guess,  is that take Charlie out of Hell and we’ve seen her character a thousand times before: The bubbly sweet optimistic girl that’s been done so many times before.  Is the ‘But in Hell!’ aspect really that much of a grabber for people? Guess it is and more power to em but it just strikes me as a strange creative choice where once again a character's personality doesn’t logically flow from their background. 

Design-wise Charile is fine, red tux reminds me of the God from the 1977 Oh God movie so that gets a thumbs up in my book. Still a bit weird that a princess is wearing it but it makes sense with the Hotel set up and all so her outfit has a logic to it. 

Then we have Vaggie. So, legit question here people: If you went into the pilot blind and Angle Dust didn’t make his ‘taco’ comment would you have ANY idea that Vaggie is supposed to be Latina? Because I legitimately had no idea that was what her design was supposed to say about her as a charchter. Also didn’t really get a moth vibe from her, either if I’m honest. As for her personality, she’s the standard ‘loving supportive’ GF but with an angry side protective side for Charile... and she’s a Latinia/Latinix.  Does... Does no one else think that’s just a bit... off? Making the one clearly marked Latinia character the ‘angry girlfriend’ archetype? 

Also, that weird pink X eye patch bugged the hell out of me when I was watching. Totally petty as shit nitpick, but I had to vent on that bit. Honestly, though Vaggie is also Meh? Like, she’s in a relationship with Charlie, cool and all but she just doesn’t strike me as a terribly interesting character if I’m honest. Gives me a sort of Lisa Simpson ‘stick-in-the-mud’ vibe. 

And then we have Angle Dust. You know, in the words of Netflix’s Big Mouth, “Sassy and Gay”  isn’t a personality. Angle Dust basically has that sort of ‘2000s  Yaoi OC’ vibe and considering Vive once had a DA character sheet where she literally listed his personality is ‘Bitch’... Yeah. 

Also, as I’ve said elsewhere, Viv and crew are doing too much with this guy. So he’s an ex mobster killed by his homophobic father in the 1920s (not mentioned in the pilot but it is a pilot in all fairness so you can’t throw all your cards on the table). And he’s a Spider Demon... even though per Word of Viv how everyone’s designed in hell doesn’t have anything to do with how they died on Earth (then why deign them that way?). And he’s a porn star (being ex Mob shouldn’t he be the one paying for porn stars as a power domination sort of thing?). AND he’s going for a Beetlejuice meets CJ from Regular Show sort of design.

It just seems a bit much, imo. Like, you could make him just a gay ex mob who mostly uses a Tommy Gun and design him to fit that and leave the Spider-Demon stuff out and it becomes a lot more manageable. Something like a simplified Zoot Suit, or the like. You could keep the sexual humor but throw it a bit more 1920s slang and pop culture references for characterization/comedy purposes (Vaggie, for example, has no idea what he’s talking about most of the time). Granted, I’d personally rather they ditch the ‘animal bits slapped on’ aspects of the designs as a whole but that, as always is just me.

For the record, I’m not ‘offended’ by Angle Dust as a character concept, I’m just not wowed or impressed, ultimately.

And then we have Alastor. Now, I LOVE Alastor as a character. He’s got that classic ‘reality warper’ vibe ala Bill Cipher or Discord but with a 1920s radio show host twist that I just think is amazing and the sound distortion they added to his voice was a really cool touch on top of it all. The problem, as always, comes more with the color choice. One one of your own characters can’t take someone seriously because they look like a ‘strawberry pimp’ that might be the time to maybe go with a different color pallet? Like, idk,  maybe throw in some warm browns and brass golds to involve the 1920s radio vibe stronger? Radios of the 20s and 30s weren’t famous for being red, is what I’m getting at.

The other problem with Alastor is that he’s too strong a personality, ironically. He comes in at the tail end of the pilot and basically steals whatever interest a potential audience member (or at least fat orange jerks like me) might have had in Charlie's plight. It's like introducing Bill Cipher in the first episode of Gravity Falls. At that point whatever interest you might have had in the MC goes out the window and you think ‘what’s this dudes deal and can the show be about them instead please?’ Sure, Alastor in all of his pesudo deer (Those don’t look like horns in my opinion but whatever you say Viv) is fun to watch but he drowns out Charile through sheer force of charisma and showmen ship. Maybe the series itself will fix this but for the pilot at least I think it’s an issue.  

Also, Nifty is Nifty and she needs her own spin-off ASAP. That is all. 

Husk is literally Avocato from Final Space with wings and some gambling bits thrown in design-wise. That’s literally all I think of Husk, sorry Husk fans :(

The animation is good, but I do find it ironic that as much as people like the bitch about  SU being off model, Hazbin I thought suffered from so many different animators tackling different scenes that it just felt jarring going from one scene to the next due to the difference in style and the shifts in animation pacing. Now, don’t get me wrong, a lot of it looks great but that switch in animators kinda just took me out of the experience in places.  Well, that and the lack of proper scene transitions. Those are what also made the pilot feel like whiplash for me.

And now comes to Bob’s thoughts on the plot of the pilot and this is where the logical holes of the series start to get to me just a bit.

So. Charlie wants to reform the demons of hell of their sins so they can get to heaven and Hell can lower its population and angles down come down and deliver some righteous furry smiting on their asses. Okay. Stupid question but what the hell is Charlie basing this off of? I mean, was AD really THAT good an actor that Charlie thought going full steam ahead on the Hotel idea was the next reasonable step up?

 Like, the Hotel was clearly a mess and her staff is literally just her and Vaggie and MAYBe Angel Dust. Even if the episode had ended with a horde of demons lining up to get into heaven by way of cleaning up their acts there’s no way two, three people could handle that (Or, you know, six if we throw in Nifty and Husk in fairness now that I think about it).

 And that’s ultimately the thing with the pilot, the demons are assholes as you’d expect the citizens of hell to be but if they are assholes... why should we care if they get redeemed or not when not one of them is clearly interested in the idea? As cheesy as it would have been, the pilot ending with a horde of demons wanting to give this ‘become better’ thing a shot would have at least left the pilot on a better note to end on. As it is it just seems like Charlie is doomed to fail because no one but her gives a shit or belives about her idea for the Hotel and we have no proof that her idea will even work. Which just makes me wonder: Why should I care if no one else does?

Ultimately, the show has potential but the art style and aspects of the writing just don’t click for me. The show doesn’t say ‘adult’ to me so much as it does 'Hot Topic Teen trying to be adult' which works for a lot of people but for me I think Hellevua Boss as more potential concept-wise. And has scenes on Earth which do the red and black and pink and white colors of the demons a lot better visual justice contrast wise but that’s just me.