#let them do that duffers

[thursdaypigeon]

sweater weather byler <3

click for quality

[strawberrybyers]

if robin and nancy don’t kiss in s5 then what the hell was all that gay energy between them about in s4??? 🤨

[chirpsythismorning]

I'm not going to say we should take every single thing official Netflix accounts post as gospel, because obviously they are not run by the Duffer Brothers themselves.

But to be clear, these people are hired by Netflix and there's more to it than just random interns scheduling posts. The people running these accounts are not the same people designing the posts made there, just like the people designing those posts have higher ups telling them what to do/not do in terms of the content they are creating. And there are plenty more levels that go beyond that, which eventually does lead to the Duffers and producers of the show, who do have a stake in how the show is promoted on a basic level to best align with their intentions and all the revelations still to come.

It is common knowledge that the Duffers work with Netflix marketing directly on a consistent basis to get their vision across, and that carries out in promotion with posters, merchandise, social media, etc., because it's really important in ST case (with it being a show made by nerds that love easter eggs), that they foreshadow what is still to come outside of the show itself.

When it comes to social media, the core purpose of those accounts is to encourage engagement for Netflix's user base, ideally ensuring they tune in to whatever is being promoted (and more), but it’s also more than that, in that it’s even more based on data and other factors.

What this leads to is the people in those less major decision-making roles, like graphic designers, simply being advised what to create, based on the information and content they are given to work with.

And so these accounts going from promoting byler subtly for years, to blatantly posting about it post-s5, is actually very, very intentional, going beyond a simple Netflix intern. It’s orchestrated by those in management positions, being advised by those in the ST production to do things a certain way, so that when all is said and done, we are able to look back and find tiny little things that point to it.

Byler can't be something they NEVER talked about even once on social media, only to have them end up being endgame with them posting about it forever afterwards when it's all said and done. It doesn't work like that, at least not in ST case. We're talking about a production that costs hundreds of millions to make, as well as being the most talked about mainstream series of our generation.

They have an obligation to make their story feel not only satisfying on its own, but to also promote the show in a way that makes the viewer feel this whole well-rounded experience, outside of the show itself as well.

And so when ST came out in summer 2022 and Netflix Geeked was making posts about it non-stop, that wasn't a rogue, low-paid Netflix intern doing whatever they wanted. That was multiple people with a job given a task and following through with it at their advisers discretion. Regardless of where it ended up, it started at the top with the Duffers informing higher ups in marketing that Byler is something that will happen, along with other revelations that they want to inform marketing about, so they can take the steps to plan ahead and create content that matches the Duffer's vision, most often to act as a foreshadowing device for the story still unraveling.

Remember when Netflix Geeked made a post acknowledging that Will the Wise drawing in El's room back in s3?? A very well known byler easter egg that only we know about??? That wasn't some ga intern watching the show once and them spontaneously coming up with content to create related to that drawing and posting about it themselves. That was very likely someone associated with the show giving suggestions to marketing, with a few of them being very incriminating in relation to byler, but with most being casual in relation to the show overall.

Just like I said in this post about how Noah didn't tweet about byler or mention it multiple times at cons unprompted bc he was feeling quirky. He was being advised to...

And look what Netflix did to that tweet Noah posted that was clearly a stunt in an of itself.? They broadcasted it and made a cheesy ass edit out of it... And it's bc several people behind the scenes were advised to make content like that specifically.

I mean, if you actually look at how social media promotes byler (if and when it does), it's arguably in the exact way that the Duffers want it to be promoted?. Just enough. Not too little. Not too much. I would argue if the Duffers had no say whatsoever in how the show was promoted, then we'd either be seeing byler constantly or we wouldn't see them at all, instead we see social media sort of dance around it, which tells me they are following the exact approach the Duffers themselves follow... because they were obviously given the instruction to.

And so seeing an account like UK Netflix, an account that as of recent has really went all out with posting Queer content since Heartstopper released, has also notably made really incriminating posts about byler over the years, but especially as of recent. And that's in large part because of what I've stated, but also based on data.

If higher ups in marketing at Netflix know about byler, then they are very likely pushing people lower on the payroll, doing more simple tasks like graphic design and social media management, to make connections to ST with other shows like Heartstopper, Sex Education, Young Royals, etc. And this is because if byler IS going to end up being this huge Queer love story, data is telling them to make these connections sooner than later, so that the eventual revelation will be a smooth transition amongst other content just like it. This works in Netflix's favor at the end of the day, which is the whole point of all of this.

Not saying you should take the most casual of Netflix posts as byler endgame proof if that's what you're asking. But to say that these accounts have NO association with the Duffer's and ST directly, therefore we shouldn’t even appreciate anything they post if it points to byler, is sort of over-simplifying things.

It's not like s5 is gonna drop and all of these interns are going to be like OHHH okay now i'm a byler so i'll post about it... Going into s5 they're going to be making some very side eye posts and it isn't going to have anything to do with them being an intern without any say in things, its gonna be about them getting a task list and following through with it bc it's their job.

[emblazons]

I still can’t believe there are people who think that Will “I’m not gonna fall in love, just kidding I am in love already but I think I’ve been rejected so let’s rip off the bandaid” Byers isn’t going to get what he wants…in a show whose whole premise started with his abduction and is, by it’s creators own repeated admission, both going to focus on him the final season + about championing the underdog and the outcast.

It really is that simple, because once you know what the Duffers value...even if you haven’t dug that far into the show, it’s obvious where the “it started with Will, it will end with Will” is taking us based on tropes alone, if you listen to anything The Duffers say about their themes and narrative goals.

You don't even need color coding or parallels to other media to sort through it, because outside of any "but it was the 80s" commentary or "they would never break up the flagship couple" talk...Byler is literally just the logical thematic conclusion for Will's arc as the full embodiment of the outcasted, childlike AND the underdog, even if you don't like what they did to get our characters there.

Like? Will is literally the boy who represents the duffers love of being a “child at heart” and taking things you adored from your youth into being a grown up (see: their entire mf show being based on DnD and the media they loved as kids) on top of being a queer, poor, and regularly disrepected character.

He is the textbook representation of the outcast and underdog energy The Duffers love, to the point where you could hardly fit more "marginalized and imperfect" checkboxes into him without making him poc...and yet people actually believe he is going to be rejected not because there is no setup, or because there is no precedence for the storyline but solely because his love interest (who also has a non-conformity storyline and who is already making heart eyes at him) is currently dating a girl...and it would be "realistic" for him to get rejected? ☠️

Not to mention...I haven't even touched on how byler resolves Mike's own thematic issues and it already makes the most sense? Like?

How do you miss the most obvious plot twist setup in history not because its not blatantly set up, but because you’re homophobic? It really does have to be the blindness of heteronormativity thats driving most of this, because if you were a media literate homophobe, you would be screaming at the Duffers for doing it, not denying it’s happening at all. But ☕️

[in-deep]

If you could only pick one piece of Byler evidence to convince someone that Byler is endgame, what would you pick?

First off - I wrote this stream of consciousness style so please be kind aha.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this question and I think it’s simply the fact that if Mike is in fact straight, then what is his character arc?

Let me explain.

A lot of the GA view Mike as a glorified side character - sidelined after S2 to fulfil the role of El’s incompetent boyfriend whilst simultaneously leaving Will (his best friend) behind and treating him like a dick. The GA also view Mike as straight. For many GA viewers, the idea that Mike is gay/bi, let alone in love with Will, seems implausible and were it to happen, it would come out of nowhere.

Which leaves the question of: what is Mike’s character arc?

From this GA perspective, he doesn’t have one. He’s destined to make up with El in S5 and support her independence, and kindly turn Will down and go on with being besties like the supportive guy they remember him being in S1/S2. If anything, his character has regressed from the early seasons into a douchebag - a mouth breather. 

Not to mention that from this perspective, he has no real internal or external trauma to be unpacked. While this is obviously untrue as it has been made clear by the Duffer brothers and even within the show (Mike’s suicide attempt, Wheeler family discussion around his behaviour at school) that he is struggling with depression, that doesn’t seem to play into their predictions on his ending. If anything, many GA viewers don’t really view his character’s conclusion in S5 as something important because to them, (just to repeat my earlier point) he’s just a glorified side character.

Of course, if you watch the show carefully and focus on Mike, you’ll quickly realise that his character is dealing with a lot of the direct pressures of heteronormativity and internalised homophobia:

His family is your classic nuclear family, Nancy talks about the Wheeler family dynamic extensively in a heart-to-heart with Jonathan 

S1 has a lot of homophobia - all of it is about Will, but a lot of it is targeted and directed toward Mike

There are multiple times he is visually shown to come to realisations about his feelings toward El and Will, respectively. Now I won’t analyse those in this post because technically, none of the contents of those realisations have been made clear to the audience, it’s just my own interpretations. I’m sure this will come back in S5, though.

To show Mike’s queerness in S5 is not changing his sexuality, simply just revealing what has been shown to the audience the entire time. Stranger Things is brilliant at show vs. tell. They tell us something, and then show us something entirely different or even something that directly contradicts what we were told. Much of the GA don’t pick up on this (and tbf I don’t really expect them to, it’s intended to be subtle!).

To reveal concretely that Mike is queer and in love with Will would change everything. It would be shocking! The GA would lose their minds - and many people would, at first, struggle to believe it. But upon rewatching the show, it would all make sense. It would turn what many view as an unimportant character into one of the most well thought-out and planned queer stories in media history (definitely an exaggeration but bear with me aha, I’m not normal about these boys).

What people thought to be an incompetent boyfriend and an absolute dick to his best friend for two seasons in a row would turn out to actually be a deeply traumatised boy struggling to remain on the “normal” path (quote from Finn Wolfhard on Mike), within the bounds of heteronormativity. A boy who desperately wants to play DnD and Nintendo with his best friend, but realises that what he feels for him isn’t “normal”. It would reveal so much about Mike and all the things we never got to see from his perspective.

And in terms of my predictions, I’m absolutely a believer in Mike being Vecna’d, and we’ll finally see Mike’s point of view on all of this. Just imagine Vecna taunting him about how he failed to be normal. He failed to do the “right” thing. He’s been in love with Will since before he even realised it.

So yeah. Byler is real. Byler is endgame. And I’m 10000% certain that Mike is going to become an extremely popular character once we get his insight. He’ll also absolutely need a hug once all is said and done. I will be hysterical. 

But at least he’ll have his cleric <3.

A really good video on Mike's internalised homophobia that essentially sparked me to write this post in the first place, and I highly recommend if you haven't seen it yet, was this one (@lesbianmindflayer) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6IOlmBEEgE&t=80s&ab_channel=LesbianMindflayer

But yeah! What would you pick as your one piece of evidence?

[theceaselessidiot]

Nancy + being annoyed by Robin

[thranduel]

reminder that will byers is the only reason mike could say the words “i love you”. this is canon and nothing will change that. he could only say it because of will.

will gave mike strength. will made mike feel like he was worth something. will listened to mike express his struggles and insecurities when no one else would. will chose to sacrifice his own feelings just to help mike because that’s how much he loves him. will made mike feel more confident about himself. will made mike feel more loved than anything.

will gave mike the painting he worked so hard on and basically told him “there’s nothing wrong with being a nerd. you talk down on yourself and think that you’re lame and worthless compared to el just because she has powers, but you’re not. you’re the furthest thing from that. and yes, you’re a nerd. but that nerd is the boy that i fell in love with. that nerd is the boy that has made me feel safe my entire life. that nerd is the boy i immediately related to when he walked up to me all alone at the swingset on the first day of kindergarten. that nerd is the boy that has never made me feel like a mistake; like i’m better for being different. that nerd is the boy that holds our party together. that nerd is the boy that understands me better than anyone else. that nerd is the boy that changed my life in the best way possible. and look, here’s a painting of us; our nerdy party, from our nerdy game that we play. i don’t know about you, but i think that being a nerd is the best. and here you are, my knight in shining armour with a heart on your shield, because that’s exactly what you are to me. i’ve always loved you for exactly who you are. not because of societal pressure. not because you’ve done things for me. not because i feel like i owe you something because you saved me. but just simply because you’re YOU. you mean the world to me. i would never walk away from you or leave you behind. i’ll always be by your side and i hope that you’ll always be by my side too, because i will always need you. i love you more than anything.”

all it took was one painting and a beautiful monologue for will byers to make mike wheeler feel more loved than he’s ever felt in his entire life. and although what i wrote above wasn’t what he said exactly, it was everything he was thinking. because will has always loved mike for who he is. it doesn’t matter that he’s a nerd. will is a nerd too! they went through the same struggles growing up and they’ve always shared the same interests. that���s why there’s so much understanding. that’s why they feel safe with each other and why they can actually be themselves without being fake. but it’s heartbreaking that mike doesn’t realise will was talking about his own feelings in the van because THAT is what gave him strength and made him say “i love you”. seriously, no one else has ever made mike feel loved the way that will did in that scene, and that’s exactly why they can’t leave this storyline unresolved. mike’s current relationship is unhealthy, there’s so much miscommunication and misunderstanding and he only said “i love you” because of a lie and because he was forced and pressured into it. he feels inferior and insecure (and so does el) and they don’t feel like equals. it’s not good for either of them. also, will can’t suffer anymore after everything he’s been through.

anyone who can’t see that mike and will have the closest, strongest and most genuine relationship on the entire show clearly isn’t paying attention or simply don’t want to admit it. it’s always been THEM. they were each other’s FIRST friend. they are each other’s safe place. the show started with them. most of the other characters wouldn’t have even met if it weren’t for them. mike’s current relationship would’ve been over if it weren’t for will giving him strength and making him feel loved. they need each other. they understand each other better than anyone else. their relationship has always been different to everyone else’s. mike and will are the heart of this show. they belong together and they deserve to be happy after everything they’ve been through.

[lunar-years]

Jonathan telling Will, “you shouldn’t like things because people tell you you’re supposed to”

And Max telling El, “you just try things on, until you find something that feels like you. Not Hopper, not Mike, you.”

Are two scenes that are actually so dear to me!!!

[baysaurus]

here for your entertainment enjoy a low quality meme I just made summing up my tonight's mood and thoughts:

based on this post from @occasionallykettle

[truegodofthearena]

i feel like some fans might be overestimating the duffers when it comes to romance. The romantic storylines have always been pretty straight forward in the show narratively. Kind of have to take them at face value. There’s no hidden complex agenda. I’ve always felt the duffers focus more on a complex plot and the sci fi stuff and they keep the relationships fairly simple and fun.

I may be wrong but I feel if they were setting up Stancy in season 4 it’s very likely it will reach its resolution in the last season. The only times they’ve done things that are random are when they’ve suddenly changed their mind about a character (robins sexuality at the last minute even though she was supposed to be a love interest for Steve). So until they do something out of the blue like that, their plan so far is pretty clear when it comes to Stancy. Narratively speaking. It’s gonna be exactly what it seems to be building towards.

[paintingformike]

watching byler and mleven scenes back to back actually puts things more in perspective and it’s making me laugh because...most byler scenes have always been treated way more seriously and with more emotional depth than mleven scenes. theres just so much more tension and intimacy evident between them and it gets 10x doubled in their heart to hearts in season 4 while mleven remains either being played for laughs or having pretty surface level conversations until they actually have a realer fight? like...byler really isnt that much of a secret at all, its being developed right in front of our eyes 😭

no cause imagine mike and el talking to each other with the same level of tension in the desert heart to heart or even just having a single conversation that is as deep and serious as that, or even mike opening up to el the way he does with will...you can’t, can you? because mleven scenes are never handled or treated with as much care as byler scenes 😴

[musicalchaos07]

No listen I need Jonathan and Nancy to stay together because the mental image I have in my mind of them having Twin Peaks & The X-files as their weekly shows is VERY clear

[chirpsythismorning]

You can't expect people to take you seriously if you're not providing any proof? If Will and El are twins and Joyce and Hopper are their bio parents, why don't any of them know about it and why haven't there been any hints about it? I'm not even trying to be rude here I just haven't seen any evidence. Let alone strong evidence

I've gotten a few confused asks about this theory and how it just doesn't make any sense..?

I'm not saying that I completely understand the ins and outs of how it works, in fact I'm still completely immersed in theorizing and not being certain of anything! Quite frankly, I don't understand it (how time works/the rules of the game), though I think that's necessary because otherwise everyone and their mother would have guessed this surprise by now if it was any more obvious than it already is.

I also just feel kind of bad about spoiling what could possibly be going down, especially bc this would clearly be a series long surprise.

I've been theorizing for months now with @shippingfangirl013 about this. It started with us sharing thoughts about Twelvegate and just sort of piecing together s4 lab scenes and then eventually going back to the beginning to see what we might have missed from this new lens, that being the possibility that Will is Twelve. And that's when we realized A LOT of stuff has been overlooked from the very beginning, which provides not only answers to certain questions we had, but also brings forth even more questions that we wouldn't have come up with, had we not looked back further into the details in the first place.

She has a bunch of posts that are severely underrated in regards to this whole theory, so I urge you all to check those out:

Twelvegate Theory: Drowning in the Quarry and Will & El (Part 1)

Twelve Actor Resemblance to Young Will Byers

Stranger Things S5 Conglomerate Twelvegate Theory (Part 1)

Conglomerate ST S5 Theory Parallels

Also be sure to keep an eye out because she has some really big brain analysis in the works that you dont want to miss. I can honestly say she plays a big role in why I feel fairly confident about this theory, because I myself didn't really believe it at first. But now, after everything I've seen, it's kind of hard not to.

Even if you don't like this the idea of this theory or just simply don't believe the evidence presented that you've seen thus far, at the very least looking at this could expand your ability to look further at other details on the show and even pick up on evidence of your own. I find that more often than not, knowing about the existence of certain overlooked details allows you to find even more overlooked details that others missed.

For the sake of your doubtful ask, and for anyone else who isn't even considering this theory because it seems too far fetched, I'm going to share some of my favorite unhinged evidence for whatever the hell gate we're calling this...

But first, here is some basic context for the chaos that follows.

Something important to note, is that we don't meet Hopper, El or the Byers the night that Will went missing. We only met Will and the party. Instead they saved the rest of the main character's introductions (his family, mind you) for the following day, after Will had gone missing. This also means they saved their introductions for AFTER the big power outage that happened that night right before he disappeared.

I find this interesting because this choice allowed them to make those introductions feel arguably 'starting point'/reset-like (like in a video game).

You'll also note there is a 'Pizza One' box in that first scene when the party is in Mike's basement playing their campaign, moments before that power outage. This could have been a hint that the very start of the pilot episode at the Wheelers may very well be the OG timeline, that we've been straying from ever since. And so let's say hypothetically, if we had met Hopper, El and the Byers BEFORE that power outage, whose to say their lives wouldn't have looked slightly different...?

The first time we are introduced to Hopper is in the scene directly after the opening credits, which was right after the scene of Will disappearing in the shed. Hopper is sleeping on the couch in his trailer, wearing both his daughter's blue bracelet and his watch. We also get 3 references to keys in this scene (a 2 ft long key decal in the literal opening shot). And if that's not enough, what follows is Hopper getting ready for work, putting a yellow pen in his pocket near a painting of an owl, before grabbing his keys and walking out the door.

The first time we are introduced to Joyce (the Byers), follows directly after the scene with Hopper, where Joyce just so happens to be looking everywhere for her keys, Where the hell are they?, followed by finding them on the couch, despite already looking there previously with no luck (interesting Hopper was sleeping on the couch with Willel symbols on his wrists only moments before this hmm). We then get a shot of Joyce showing concern over Will not eating breakfast, followed by scolding Jonathan for forgetting to wake Will up, adding I've told you this a thousand times, before she walks past an owl on the wall in the hallway and opens the door to another owl on the wall in Will's (unoccupied) room...

Let me just say, for the sake of this fictional family, I hope to god they haven't been through this thousands of times. Though I fear they might have. At least more than once...

There are a lot, A LOT of scenes that go down like this. As the show progresses, we get a lot of references to time passing and confusion and impatience and it almost feels like they themselves know deep down this isn't their first rodeo, and yet they're still playing along bc how exactly can one question their reality?.

The problem right now for me, is that I don't understand the rules of the game. How does time work? What even is the goal of the game (to win, I presume?)? Maybe Vecna's having to keep reseting the time loop, to get the results he wants, and over time he's getting closer and closer to the results he wants, but it will ultimately (predictably) lead to him failing once and for all in the final season, when all is inevitably revealed?

Hypothetically, if this is all some game/pocket universe Vecna has thrown our core characters into, essentially surrounding them with 'fakers', then how do we know what is/isn't real? Or I guess whether or not we're in a timeline/loop either closest to, or furthest away from the original timeline? That's why it's hard for me to go further in terms of definitively piecing everything together time wise. Not only that, but we also don't even know for sure what Vecna wants from Will and El, truly.

But I do think that a lot of the answers to the truth are hidden in plain sight.

If you're genuinely curious, I encourage you to rewatch the show for yourself to see if you can pick up on things! Be sure to keep an eye out for keys and owls in particular. Also, El's flashbacks of Mama/the rainbow room might prove to be important... like, literally slowing down and pausing and screenshooting every single frame level important...

Who knows, you might even stumble upon a completely different undiscovered theory in the process!

On that note, here is just a slice of my favorite evidence in regards to this theory, that will hopefully open your mind to the possibility:

When Hopper asks about Lonnie's whereabouts, Joyce insists TRUST ME HE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. They made sure to keep the keys on the wall OUT of the frame in those shots referencing Lonnie by name specifically. However, when the conversation circles back to Will, and then follows after with Joyce telling Hopper to find her son, the keys are once again visible in both of their shots.

This scene right here is pretty epic. We all interpret Hopper's investigative skills throughout the series as him just being good at his job. But I would argue this scene in particular gives off very intense deja vu. It's as if Hopper knows where to look, because he's done this before. It's as if he's getting a gut feeling in certain areas that actually could be close to the truth, because this is his thousandth time doing this (Jesus, for their sake, I hope that's not the case).

Still, Hopper showcases a lot of unbelievable detective work throughout the show, and I think it could very well be hinting at him drifting in and out of awareness over the fact that he has done this before, which allows him to make such incredible guesses that lead him to the answer sooner than he would have in any normal situation (and yet, never too close...)

Has this always been here? That's what Hopper asks about a dent in the wall. We interpret it as maybe Hopper trying to figure out if this could be connected to Will's disappearance. But what if it's more than that? What if it hasn't always been there? What if this is a glitch in the matrix of sorts, and he noticed that glitch, bc this isn't his first time doing this? (Also peep the owl that shows up at the very last second in the shot directly below, with Joyce and Hopper in the frame, just as he gets the urge to check the backyard...)

This scene... This fucking scene ya'll. It just doesn't make any sense. This is one of several scenes throughout the show that have so many unanswered questions. I think it's because something else is going on that weren't not supposed to understand yet. That shot with Hopper encased in a rainbow is cool and probably means something... Hopper intensely walking into the frame as he steps towards the shed, with the upside down horseshoe above the door also probably means something...

Hopper literally walks up straight to where Will was in the shed the night previous, bc he's just that good of a detective. Yeah, okay... Suddenly the light overhead is blinking dramatically, only to switch off completely, which leads Hopper's eyes to catch this makeshift fort in the corner of the shed. Before he even gets a good look at what he's seeing, he's interrupted by Callahan, pulling him out of his deja vu state, followed by the light switching back on instantly, as if the occurrence was all in his head.

This also happens a lot, where our main characters are being interrupted by other characters, only seconds before they were close to solving something. And I just find that interesting...

This one is kind of peak comedy because, all it's doing on the surface is implying that Joyce and Hopper have a romantic history, but it also sneakily involves Will in the joke, as evidence that they have been intimate... The Chief and her, they've screwed before huh? ...WILL! That a 'yeah' or did they...

To be honest, I was really doubtful about Joyce and Hopper being El and Will's biological parents at first, even despite believing twelvegate and the possibility of them being twins. And this doubt mostly came from the scenes we get with Terry aka El's 'Mama'.

Initially, I had convinced myself it would be too sad, considering how much backstory we got about Terry. But @shippingfangirl013 made me realize that there is something very off about these scenes with Terry, that I think kind of went over all of our heads.

First of all, Mama is essentially the equivalent to the name Papa, and so we should start by unpacking that. Why didn't the writers have El distance herself from that exact association she links to Brenner, by just having her call Terry 'mom' like most kids call their mother? It doesn't seem that serious on the surface, but again this is a choice the writers made... Maybe it's because they wanted the audience to subconsciously associate those two with each other (Papa/Mama)? Also peep Jim giving Will Byers vibes, all lit up by the sun like Jesus (or I guess... God?) below!

The main thing I want to talk about though, is that despite Terry's vegetative state, she's still managing to give us hints about how she feels and what she thinks, with very subtle micro-expressions.

When she meets Hopper and Joyce in s1, Terry looks completely unsurprised. You could say she looks the same all of the time, because of her vegetative state, and while I mostly agree, there are some outliers in the mix.

When Joyce mentions El being her daughter, what we get is a reaction shot of Terry dramatically closing her eyes for an extended period of time, almost like she's experiencing frustration over them woefully misunderstanding the truth behind what's going on.

And I think that's kind of the whole point of the vegetative state here, that perhaps if Terry could say what she wanted to say, it would give away the truth that has been hidden all along, AKA Joyce and Hopper are El and Will's true parents. When Joyce then mentions her missing son, showing Terry a picture of him, this woman LITERALLY turns her head to the right, looking straight up annoyed... Why? Why would she do that unless this is her ?/? time meeting them, hearing this same old silly charade?..

But then here... THIS moment when Hopper asks about Brenner and Terry's relationship with him, that's when it gets interesting. Terry doesn't look exhausted over their ignorance anymore like she seemed to be in the moments previous. Now, she's back to her stare of nothing, and yet seeing this in contrast to her micro-expressions, almost adds a new layer to what this could possibly mean... Perhaps this could be hinting that Hopper is a lot closer to the truth than he realizes, warranting a knowing look from Terry, with her almost impressed, thinking Damn Jim, maybe you'll figure it out this time and I can finally be released from this hell...

This might seem like a reach to assume Brenner and Terry had any sort of relation beyond her being a lab volunteer, but something I think you might be interested in knowing, is that Terry has a little collection of Bonsai tree books beside her chair... Bonsai... does that remind you of anyone...? (If you check out those posts by @shippingfangirl013, you might know what i'm referring to...)

The fact that Hopper even mentions Brenner and Terry's presumed connection to him is just one other example of Hopper subconsciously picking up on things he discovered in previous loops that are close to the TRUE truth, allowing him to narrow things down quicker this time around, without needing to take all the steps to get to that point.

An owl behind both Joyce and Hopper here, while they talk about what allegedly happened to Terry and her daughter Jane.

And there you have it folks, the acknowledgment that the truth could have been covered up, the moment Hopper stands in front of the owl artwork (literally covering it up). Owls, which have been tied more than anyone else to Hopper, Joyce, Will and El (tying them together?).? Also the crib between them... Nothing to see here.

This one is pretty self explanatory. We even get a parallel to this in s4 with El AND Will, though next time they'll confirm Hopper's role in the equation. So, be ready for that...

These scenes are so important to this theory because despite them all being separated (who knows how many times now), they have this epic finale of coming together. We get these really heartfelt scenes with El and Joyce and Hopper, Will and El, and then Will and Joyce and Hopper, and it's all very emotional and just so much deeper knowing that the truth could be that they're all tied to each other more than we (or even them) realize.

11 & 12 between the two hands on the clock, in a moment that parallels X-Men and also the lab massacre (which presumably had both 11 and 12 in attendance...). Mike calling out to El emotionally the moment that Joyce and Hopper are reunited with Will. My heart can't take it!!!

Someone actually noticed this shot of Hopper recently, I can't remember who! But it made me want to go back to see what shot is right before it. And low and behold, it follows directly after a shot of the Byers family reuniting. Kind of interesting they made the choice to have this shot right afterwards, of Hopper sitting next to Ted (aka a dad), while looking lost in thought as he stressfully bites his nails, with his arm sporting his daughter's blue bracelet...

Not suspicious at all. That creepy shadow behind Owens as he makes an almost knowing comment about Joyce and Hopper being 'Mom and Pop', followed by Hopper looking like he's missing something...

And for this scene to follow shortly after? Hopper literally acknowledging Owens whose waving at him politely, and yet choosing to not wave back at him?... He KNOWS something is off, but he just can't quite put his finger on it...

As you probably know, most of the scenes with the birthday mug in Mike's basement involve either El (in s1) or Will (in s2-3), which is interesting considering the other few notable birthday references we get in the show, including this really cryptic sequence above, involve Joyce and Hopper...

Now, if you still didn't believe me about Terry's behavior being off, I think this piece of evidence might help support our claims a little bit more for you to consider. Because, why, WHY when El approaches Terry in the void and says I'm home, is Terry's response No..? Why would that even make any sense? Why would El's biological mom say No to her missing daughter implying that she is her family? Unless, she's not of course...?

Something interesting about the flashbacks that Terry shows El, is that they're very sporadic and hard to understand. Not only that, but we STILL get callbacks to these memories heavily even in s4, which tells me there is still something there that has yet to be picked up on, by both the audience and El herself, which is why they keep resurfacing in different forms. My favorite moment out of the s2 flashbacks though is probably this moment where it looks like a baby is born, only for Brenner to look back, like there's more to come (another baby?? TWINS?). But this type of twin imagery, only gets stronger in s3-4...

After 2 seasons of building up this meeting of these two characters who have been mirroring each other since the very beginning, here we are... Also, why even hold back for so long in introducing them? Maybe because them finally interacting properly is going to cause some things to resurface... And you definitely don't want to overlook these shots of Hopper and Joyce in Melvald's with two baby's in between them, followed by a shot of keys... Hmmmm.

Remember when I said to pay attention to the Terry/Lab flashbacks El experiences over the seasons?

Well this particular flashback below comes from 3x06: E Plurbius Unum aka the episode that was originally titled The Birthday, might prove to be important...

Jonathan and Will in a scene prior to El's flashback, has them situated interestingly between this Lucky Charms box and this Spill & Spell game, which is then followed by this scene with El experiencing flashbacks... And...

Rainbow? Lucky (Upside down horse shoe...) Enter flashback

I'm not going to be able to show each frame of this flashback, because in total there are over 30 different quick images shown and repeated...

And so, If you want to find out why this is the strongest piece of evidence for Willel twins in my opinion (brought to you by @shippingfangirl013's big brain), go back and rewatch to see how many times they show the image of baby El and young El in the rainbow room... Also take note of how shots of Kali (008) are interspersed consistently within this flashback, aka a character that is known for having powers to make people invisible, and to also make people see things that aren't actually happening...

Here's that parallel I mentioned earlier making a return, but instead tying El (and arguably Will) to Hopper being their biological father. Also peep El's bracelet and Will's watch being prominent in a lot of their shots together throughout s4, now that they share the screen a lot more.

The Wright Bros...

No, but seriously, Willel's bracelet and watch mirroring each other often in their scenes together, and by association also paralleling Hopper wearing one of each, dramatically showcased in his introduction to the series, can be something so personal to me...

THEY'RE TWINS YOUR HONOR!

This one really goes off. A car passes by a couple times during this flashback El has (IN S4), causing a shadow to cast behind Will, almost creating this duplicate-like effect... This is literally happening while El is having a flashback to her 'birth mother', while staring at a family (with their faces warn out/blurred) on a billboard, with an arrow pointing towards where Will, aka her twin, is standing to the right of her...

This one below has gotta be my favorite though. And it's because I literally remember watching this scene the first time and being confused?

Tbh, that's when you know something is more complex than it appears. Whenever something feels off within the context provided in the moment, it's probably because there's something deeper going on and there are multiple meanings at play. This means they're using this small moment as an opportunity to provide dual meaning in plain sight, that we wont understand the dual meaning of until later on down the line.

Are you ready..

Hmmm. I wonder what this could possibly be alluding to? Could it perhaps be the writers hinting at Hopper unintentionally projecting his own situation onto Dmitri? Is it possible who Hopper believes to be his child (daughter... son(s?)?) and his (ex)wife, are not actually who he and everyone thinks they are...?

Well. There you have it! These are just some of the many, many hints hiding in the details that point to the possibility of the Byers actually all being, Hoppers...?

For now, this is just a theory! So even though it's cool and there is a serious amount of evidence pointing to it, it will most definitely continue to transform and look different over time, the more we look deeper and discover more. Nothing is set in stone, for now it's all just theories and speculation.

Again, if you're curious about what else there is out there in regards to this theory and other possibilities surrounding it, please follow and check out @shippingfangirl013 posts! She was way more on board with this theory than me in the beginning and arguably still is, because I do still experience occasional doubt about it, for sure.! And so without her I would not have come to half of these conclusions! I look forward to you guys seeing other stuff she's discovered bc seriously... Her poor storage ya'll.

And also, if you're interested in the time-loop aspect specifically in regards to this, I encourage you to check out two recent posts I did about this. Part I actually starts with those first scenes introducing Hopper and the Byers and how other scenes later in the show parallel it. VERY VERY cool stuff, and tbh if you've made it this far, I think you'll be intrigued...

Time Loop Fuckery in Stranger Things Part I

Time Loop Fuckery in Stranger Things Part II

[emblazons]

—not a day goes by where I don’t wonder how people assume that a show created by two men who are self proclaimed “film nerds” who say things like “we didn’t expect it to resonate with the audience we got / young people, but rather more cultured people like us” have people defending an oversimplified interpretation of what has become their primary work

like? Have they ever met film guys, or—

[3rdsday]

Unpopular opinion: I don't want Stranger Things to end up with Byler as canon.

And I say this as a queer person who also wants nothing but happiness for Will. It's just... One: clearly Mike is entirely enamored with El given that he couldn't stop thinking about her for a single second this season, two: if Mike is already failing at being a good friend to Will I don't know that they would be good for each other, three: I also want El to be happy and I think her and Mike deserve to pull through with their relationship, and four: not ending up with Byler being canon doesn't seem like it would be queerbaiting to me? Will is clearly canonically gay, Mike does not seem to be, and I feel like some people are upset about Mike being straight which feels kinda ridiculous to me.

I think it would be just as satisfying of an arc for Will to come to terms with his unrequited crush on Mike and realize that he can find happiness with someone else, potentially some newly introduced character for season 5 (side note it would be great if it included a conversation between Will and Robin, with Robin offering him support and shit because she knows exactly what it feels like to be in Will's situation).

Crushing on someone you can't have is tragic especially with someone like Will who is willing to put his emotions aside to help Mike and El, and a satisfying, happy ending for Will doesn't have to be Mike and Will together.

[slowlydecaying-taylorsversion]

so i was like morbidly curious as to what actually goes on in m*leven shippers minds and ummm they're kind of aggressive.....like what is that about

especially considering that their ship is literally the canon one-