#minachar28

[persephoneofhades]

minachar28 replied to your post “If Maddie and Ben never get together and Maddie and Robb DO end up in...”

Dropping Baddie like that makes no sense. They broke up only bcuz Ben lied about letting Ian die/kept it from Maddie. But the ROMANCE & LOVE was still there. That's was a huge aspect of Byrndie - They were love. All three loved each other. So now suddenly Ben & Maddie don't love each other? Ben's fine with Maddie moving on with another person that's not Ryn? Yeah right. Not buying that at all. There was no reason to break Bryndie/Polymarine like this. I didn't just ship them bcuz they were a good poly rep. I also ship them bcuz they were a good couple. All three of THEM together. Robb could and should have gotten with someone else. This forced break up is messing up the show.

I think you may have misunderstood why Maddie broke up with Ben. She’s less upset about him lying about Ian than she is with the fact that he KILLED SOMEONE. Maddie may not realize that Ben is under the influence of the Song addiction again, but she made it clear in Season 1 and 2 that she doesn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who has substance abuse issues for EXACTLY this reason. She broke up with him because of it in Season 1. She gets back together with him in Season 2 prior to the cure because she seems to decide that she loves him enough to try to make it work, but we know how she feels about it. We SAW how she reacted to her mother and some of the stuff she likely remembers having to deal with when she was younger due to her mother’s drug addiction problems.

Maddie does not want to have to deal with an erratic partner she can’t trust. And to be honest? I can’t blame her for that. Ben straight up let a man die. Yes, Ian was doing something bad at the time, but he didn’t deserve to DROWN. Maddie has EVERY reason to feel somewhat uncomfortable around Ben after finding out how far he’d go, especially since we can be reasonably certain it’s not something he would have done prior to the show and prior to his exposure to the Song.

No matter how much Maddie loves Ben and no matter how much she likely does still know that he loves her, she ALSO knows that she is not willing to be in a relationship with someone who could do something like what Ben did to Ian. She expects Ben to know better. It’s erratic behavior from Ben and I think Maddie recognizes that as a warning sign even if she doesn’t realize what it’s a warning sign OF yet.

Ben and Maddie have not at all been shown to suddenly not love each other. If that’s what you got from the show, I’m not sure what to tell you except that we’ve been interpreting it differently. Ben has had multiple moments where he’s shown that he very much does still care for Maddie, most recently when he was somewhat jealous of Robb a few episodes back (now sure how you missed that enough to get that he was “fine” with Maddie moving on, even though he has chosen to respect her choice which is a GOOD thing to portray). Maddie still relies on Ben and clearly does still care about him as shown in even recent episodes. When Ben and Ryn come back from the rescue mission on the island, she’s relieved to see BOTH of them okay. Her feelings for Ben did not go away just because she doesn’t want to be in a romantic relationship with him right now any more than they did back in Season 1 and 2 when she broke up with him then.

I liked/like Polymarine as a ship, too. But a LOT of shows put their couples through the ringer, whether they’re endgame or not. Look at FRIENDS with Ross and Rachel, they spent more time NOT dating each other and dating other people than they did dating each other. They still ended up together in the end. Shows do this. It isn’t necessarily a sign that the ship is never going to get back together ever, it’s just a narrative choice to introduce some drama into the romantic aspect of the show. Frustrating? Sure. Unique? Not at all. Permanent? We don’t know, yet.

You’re welcome to be sad that Polymarine aren’t together right now, especially since they haven’t been together for that long officially. But if you follow any of my posts, I think you’re aware that I don’t share your feelings that this show has been ruined just because the main ship is currently going through a rough patch. I like this show for a LOT of reasons, I don’t JUST watch it for a ship I like. I really enjoy its environmental message, I love its mermaid lore, I love several of the side characters. There’s a lot for me to enjoy in this show that isn’t explicitly about Polymarine or the romances. If that’s all you came to this show for and the show is now ruined for you because the show isn’t doing what you want right now, feel free to stop watching. No one is forcing you to keep doing so if it’s upsetting you. Certainly no one is forcing you to tell ME how much you’re upset about it in a response to a post about how I’m staying positive on the show for now.

As for Robb and his relationship with Maddie, I happened to like Robb individually as a character, particularly in this last episode, and I didn’t dislike his relationship with Maddie. I’m actually a little sad that it seems like we may not see as much of him going forward, even if it stayed a working friendship between them since Maddie 100% deserves to be able to take him up on his job offer and do awesome science-y ocean clean-up work to help mermaids around the world. It was AWESOME to get to see someone recognize Maddie for how absolutely brilliant she is since Ben’s not doing as much of that and even the narrative is showing Ben as the more scientific one of the two. With Robb? Maddie got to SHINE and I LOVED that for her. I loved that she got to have something for herself that made her feel good that wasn’t wrapped up in the drama of the rest of her life and her romances with Ben and Ryn. She deserved this. I honestly hope he gets to come back, even if it isn’t in a romantic context, but I won’t be upset if he does. The only reason I’d be upset with Maddie/Robb is if it was used as a way to sideline Maddie from the show and make Ben/Ryn the main romantic couple (and the only two main characters). So far though this season, that doesn’t appear to be the case at all.

This got really long, but I hope it helps you understand how I’M interpreting the show and maybe show you a different way to look at it that isn’t quite so negative and pessimistic. And again, feel free to just drop the show if you don’t feel like it’s giving you anything anymore. I’ve done it myself more than once with other shows, so no judgment. But I don’t need people coming onto my posts telling me about all the stuff they dislike about a show that’s giving me a LOT of joy during a really difficult time, thanks so much.

[persephoneofhades]

minachar28 replied to your post “minachar28 replied to your post “If Maddie and Ben never get together...”

I'm gonna point out that "coming onto my post" comment makes little sense on social media. Your post was public for the world to see so getting comments (even those you disagree with) comes with the territory. I looked up #Polymarine and found your post. On to your new post - I can see you point but you also missed some of mine. Bryndie was heavily entwined in the frabric of Siren. From Day 1 there were hints, then clear signs then they officially happened. Now its being dropped like it meant nothing. You seem to mainly be a Raddie fan (I may be wrong) but even they are slowing being put on the back burning. It becoming all about Bryn. I can see with this is all going. Sure Maddie in a interesting storyline with Ben & Ryn for now but how long will that really last? Maddie will be forgotten/left behind/out of the loop before long. As part of the main couple she gets to be a real lead. Bryndie is beautiful & their story can last but only if the writers don't give up on them. Relationships are up & down/not always perfect so the conflict isn't a bad thing but this extra distance will most likely get unnecessary. As for possibly dropping the show - if enough people stop watching then Siren will get cancelled which isn't helping anyone. Ben leaving Ian to drown was messed up but did you missed the point that Maddie would die? That was also a main reason Ben didn't save him which he should have told her instead of making look like it was just about protecting the merpeople. I'm not saying Ben was right but see how the merpeople was gonna be hunted down and enslaved/experimented on/killed. Ben had reasons. I'm all for Maddie having separate things outside of the mermaid stuff but that could still happen with her bring part of Polymarine. Obviously we can disagree but I needed to explain my point. In my 3rd comment I meant without Ben & Ryn. Also meant the Byrndie could last if the writers don't give up on them. Wasn't trying to start an argument just replying back.

You can point out that my post is public and it is and I have no issues with people responding to it, but you can also choose how you respond to it. Being negative on a post where I was trying super hard to be positive and telling me that you think the show is RUINED? Didn’t feel so good. I’m always up for discussions and debates about a show I’m this passionate about, I really am. Just... maybe try to keep it to discussion topics and not plain and simple bashing.

Okay, so responding to this with the perspective of having now seen episode 8, I’m... starting to turn towards the side of “this is total BS, Maddie’s being sidelined and it’s AWFUL and Polymarine may not last and I hate it.” There are quite a few moments in episode 8 that just... very visually represent that difference (Maddie getting a cheek kiss and then Ben immediately afterwards getting a lips kiss, Maddie not standing/sitting next to Bryn at the wedding, etc).

So like... yeah. I mean, you’re not wrong that I’m partial to Raddie over Bryn, for sure, but I did like Polymarine at least equally as much as I liked Raddie. And I didn’t HATE Bryn, they’ve definitely had some cute moments in the past, though I’m liking them less and less as this season goes on because they seem to be getting portrayed as more and more dysfunctional. But I have a whole post somewhere detailing why I think Polymarine perfectly represents the whole theme of balance and how the three of them together work beautifully to represent the two things each of them is always having to balance within themselves and how each of them works to balance the other two. Polymarine obviously does not exist without Ben and I have absolutely loved Ben in earlier seasons and really rooted for him. It’s just this season that they’ve made him less likable which has, in turn, made his relationship with Ryn somewhat less likable, too.

What I think you were missing earlier is that while I guess I didn’t necessarily disagree that there were some bad signs, I was trying REALLY FUCKING HARD to stay positive about it and see it in a better light, in a way that wasn’t indicative of this show I adore becoming a shitshow that drops some spectacular polyamorous rep with a beautiful wlw relationship and sidelines the main Black woman. I really really REALLY did not want to believe this show would do that, I’ve been working SUPER FUCKING HARD all goddamn season to try to come up with theories about why Ryn and Maddie have been getting a lot less affectionate scenes than Ryn and Ben have been getting, about why it was important for Maddie to have her relationship with Robb and (this is what my original post was about) why Maddie being with Robb didn’t actually cancel out the polyamorous rep or the wlw relationship since as far as we’ve been told, Ryn is still dating two people, which makes Polymarine still a polyamorous relationship, even if it’s a V instead of a triangle. And Maddie having feelings for Robb and maybe starting to date him means that Maddie is ALSO dating two people, turning that V into a Z. Or an N. Whichever letter you prefer. Which was UNHEARD of polyamorous representation. So while I definitely love Polymarine, I was not against the show exploring the different ways polyamorous relationships can happen, the different forms they can take.

After episode 8, though, I’m... really despondent. I’m losing some of my faith in this show doing right by us, doing right by these characters. Robb’s gone, Maddie definitely got sidelined in this episode both narratively and visually. None of that spells anything good. It’s like 3am so my mind is coming up with wild conspiracy theories about how some of what we’re seeing are more hallucinations in Ben’s mind, that the season 2 finale wasn’t a one-off, but FORESHADOWING. I’m tired, I’m upset, I’m kinda angry right now, so I’m probably MASSIVELY off-base, but it’s literally the only thread of hope I have left right now so I’m going to hang onto it until the show rips it out of my hands.

As for dropping the show, it didn’t sound like you were getting much out of it and I’m a proponent of not watching shows that don’t bring you joy. It’s not your job to try to keep a show from getting cancelled if you don’t like it anymore, even if other people do. I’ve dropped SEVERAL shows because they weren’t making me happy anymore, so like I said, no judgment on my end if this show just wasn’t doing it for you anymore. Personally, I wasn’t just sticking around for Polymarine or for Raddie, I was sticking around for Ryn and her baby, Ryn and her tribe, for Helen, for Xander, for the environmental message, for the beautiful theme of balance being the key to everything. There was (and hopefully still IS) so much in this show that I love and I 100% would stick around to watch this show for a while probably even if Polymarine stayed a V, or a Z. I might have problems if Maddie got sidelined and removed from Polymarine entirely, but up until this episode, that hadn’t entirely happened. This episode removed almost EVERYTHING that I enjoy about this show from the environmental message (all three of them agreeing to use the sonic cannon despite its known impact on all marine life), the message about balance (either Ben or Ryn has to give up their home to be together or they have to break up and go their separate ways but no in-between option) to Maddie’s role in the narrative and her relationship with Ryn AND Ben to Xander possibly DYING. So quite honestly, if the show continues the way it has in this episode, I’LL probably consider dropping it, because this isn’t the show I fell in love with.

Okay, so addressing your question about if I recognized that Maddie would have died if Ian had been allowed to live. NO. I don’t recognize that because it ISN’T TRUE. Did you forget the whole fact that this was a HALLUCINATION Ben had in which he mischaracterized both Xander and Calvin MASSIVELY and was working on some majorly incorrect information? We were told, point blank, that Ian could not have revealed ANYTHING without some solid physical proof, it’s why he was trying to kidnap Ryn. Without her, his article was DEAD. Had Ian lived, they probably could have forced him to give up his attempts given that they’d just SAVED HIS LIFE. We have NO IDEA what might have happened if Ben had let Ian live. But I HIGHLY doubt that it would have automatically FOR SURE meant Maddie’s death. The whole thing was a nightmare scenario based on Ben’s paranoia and very little else. Ben didn’t have “reasons”. At least, none that were actually REASONABLE. While Ben probably SHOULD have told Maddie about his hallucination, the reason he DIDN’T is because admitting to having hallucinations means he’d have to admit the reason WHY he was having hallucinations: namely, that he re-addicted himself to the Song. Nothing Ben saw in his hallucination is a worthwhile excuse for letting another human being drown when Ben could have saved him. Nothing. It helps us UNDERSTAND why Ben did what he did, sure, because it shows us just how not in his right mind Ben is, how far gone he’s become now that he’s listened to the Song again. But it doesn’t exonerate him or excuse the fact that he killed a man.

I think we have a very different definition of what “being part of Polymarine” means. For me, Polymarine is the relationship between the three of them (at least for now) and the three of them are still connected through Ryn. Just because Ben and Maddie aren’t dating EACH OTHER doesn’t mean that Polymarine isn’t still a relationship that exists, it just exists as a V instead of a triangle, as I mentioned in the original post you replied to and have mentioned in my replies a few times now. Maddie is still dating Ryn and her involvement in Robb wasn’t (for a while) taking her away from the main narratives. She was SUPER involved in the earlier episodes that dealt with the hybrids and the baby. In fact there was an entire episode in which Ben spends the whole time with his parents while Maddie runs around with Ryn, helping her train, helping her read, taking her to the hybrid doctor to deal with the cramps, following her to the ranch to find Meredith, etc. For a while there, in the beginning of this season, it definitely did not feel like Maddie was going to get sidelined just because she needed space from Ben or because they introduced Robb. I have been holding onto that hope those episodes gave me up until now. But while I agree that I’d prefer Maddie have side storylines AND continue to be involved in the main narrative, I think that’s exactly what was happening in the early episodes.

So look, am I starting to believe that all of the people who have been crying out in the tags that this season’s been a sign that Maddie’s going to be sidelined and the show is going to let go of the part that made it the unique and beautiful, might be right? Yes.

Am I still desperately trying to cling to what little hope I have that there’s something we AREN’T SEEING HERE that can turn this around in the 11th hour?

Also yes.