#omg forgot to specify this is for lucifer!!

[sabreina-archive]

@sunblesses​   ,   RESURRECTION   DAY   .   

FROM   FIRE   YOU’RE   REBORN   !   the   flames   of   hell   coat   your   skin   ,   immune   to   the   burning   unlike   any   other   entities   .   no   ,   those   who   carry   the   morningstar   blood   are   different   .   superior   to   any   other   mere   mortals   cursed   to   the   nether   realm   or   demons   allowed   within   the   presence   of   the   court   .   .   .   but   you   were   different   ;   it   was   your   home   .   yet   ,   YOU   DIED   .   .   .   so   what   were   you   doing   here   ?

STEPPING   FORTH   FROM   THE   INFERNO   ,   draped   in   red   gown   as   if   not   a   moment   had   passed   .   confusion   struck   over   ,   stepping   into   the   mirror   felt   like   yesterday   while   also   feeling   like   time   had   been   misconstrued   .   “   dad   ?   ”   furrowed   brows   with   wondering   eyes   ,   unsure   of   what   was   happening   ,   “   not   that   i'm   excited   to   be   here   but   .   .   .   i   died   ,   didn't   i   ?   ”   SOUL   TRAPPED   IN   OBLIVION   ,   IN   DARKNESS   .   .   .   was   that   your   version   of   mortals   hell   ?

[elizabethrobertajones]

You ever have a week long feeling of “I forgot something important”?

@thefaeryhollows

OMG. SPOILER ALERT FOR 12x22: Remember in 8x02 when there was an auction and Crowley bid his own soul just to get the tablet but the auctioneer just laughed at him and said "Mr. Crowley you dont have a soul"? This is a big loophole (and since I'm still hoping for Crowley to return in one body or another) that I refuse to overlook. Crowley DID say that in order to complete the lockdown spell, one minor ingredient is still needed: a life--- a soul. Do you think that that was just poor writing from new writers or was that intentional? I really LOVE your metas and thoughts so feel free to state your opinion or discuss it with someone too 😍.

Aah, I think this is a problem that isn't from 12x23 but from elsewhere in the season. Dabb has had fingers in pies for a long long time so guess who wrote 8x02 :P At some point in the Crowley and Lucifer taunting this season written by either Perez or Buckleming, Lucifer said he was going to eat Crowley's soul or something else equally silly.

In this show "life" and "soul" are two quite different things, as soulless!Sam showed, or on the other hand, angels are also soulless creatures, although with a different operating system that at least supports mostly compatible emotions and understanding of goodness even if it's on an *incomparable* level where there's so many confusions.

Monsters and demons DO have souls though. Monster souls are corrupted by magic tracing back to Eve, or Purgatory in general, and demon souls are just human souls, but corrupted. Crowley's referred to having a demonised soul a few times and since 8x23 and the blood cure when he was brought to the brink of having a regular old soul, then had a human blood addiction for the rest of season 9 (supposedly, reports vary on when he quit depending on who he's talking to and when :P) and the addiction was literally messing with how demonic he was, even if by even season 10 you'd think he'd have detoxed, it at least gave him some emotional perspective/context which meant he compared to Cas interestingly, also by season 10 working on his original grace and not mentioning that he literally does own a soul now, but generally being more humanly emotional. I mean he was always emotional but it goes to a very different place after actually BEING human.

So I do kind of side eye just referring to Crowley having a soul without specifying that it's demonic but it's not implying he has anything he doesn't actually own - the point in 8x02 is slightly wonky too. His "soul" would be just handing over his entire red smoke being to the god, and his meatsuit left behind is not him at all, and would promptly die if it had not done so already because Bobby killed the poor bastard in 5x20 and 8x02 was I think the first time he smoked out since we met him. Anyway if there WAS a human soul in there with Crowley, it's not his own.

In 12x23 though, Crowley JUST refers to a "life" but not a soul. He IS alive in the loose sense that he's a consciousness with agency and drives and at least emotional needs, even if he's technically undead, as being demonised isn't a resurrection by the show's rules, and Bobby describes demons in 6x04 as ghosts with attitude or something similar. Ghosts are also corrupted souls but since they're more recognisable as what they once were and are generally misunderstood even when they are killing people, are sympathetically human and emotional so recognised as their own souls. Functionally ghosts and demons have about the same basic power set but demons are exponentially more competent at using it, as they have much more self-awareness and continuity of self. Ghosts often don't know they're dead and have a limited view of their surroundings and usually motives just relating back to their lives. I think in general demons seem to be on a borderline between alive and dead but err towards being alive, especially as the demonising process moves them to a category when they can be killed with angel blades etc and have a unique dying effect and no known afterlife, so they've transformed into something other enough they don't just get moved on like ghosts, but that extra hell power compared to a ghost grants them a sort of extra strength of will and purpose and life that's needed to pass for an autonomous being. TBH ghosts are the only thing from the "easy" range of foes I'd think that actually, an angel blade probably doesn't kill and purposefully CAN'T because they need to be moved on rather than destroyed, which isn't killing them.

Anyway, sadly I think Crowley did just use his own life - which is a very real thing despite being a demon with a demonised soul - to complete the spell and there isn't a loophole about it.