#ooh boy I hope that tag doesn’t become common for me kshgddhdgd

[willowrosenboob]

Def Mood on the whole part about bangel's wedding being played for drama and angst but also, for me one of the main reasons is because even with all of their scenes together, their dynamic still felt underwhelming when you take out all the dramatic angst scenes? Like sure ok I will sit through seasons 1 2 and then 3 while I watch them but I always end up liking their conversation more in season 7 which is ironic, given that it feels kind of thrown in, but it's also just one where it felt like both were more or less on an equal footing to me. Buffy was older and a lot more experienced while being a slayer, she didn't take Angel's crap when he was jealous of Spike, but she was also honest about her feelings in general towards him. I guess part of the reason why I liked it is because it didn't feature Angel having more say in what happens to them, but Buffy does for once, since he was the one that broke them up in season 3 and then in "I Will Remember You", and while I don't think it was necessarily bad, since it did end up being a good choice for him to go his own way, it still felt a bit unbalanced to me bc again, Buffy had no real say in it. And I can never really be into the season 5 scene either (when Joyce dies) mainly because it just feels like Buffy is in mourning, and she's trying to cling onto the one thing she previously knew and felt something intensely for.

I know you just made that post to highlight one reason and that's def valid, so I hope this doesn't come off as me correcting you bc I also agree.

don’t worry, I really appreciate that I get a lot of long opinionated asks. it’s a lot of fun to talk about btvs. it is my favourite show after all. and I’m always honoured when people wanna send their opinions to me 💖

as for what you said about bangel, I don’t really have a big problem with the wedding dream other than my own personal distaste towards most weddings, but I get finding them a bit boring together. in my first watch through I barely thought about them at all. and especially in season 3, their relationship can be downright confusing. I used to always forget when they were dating and when they weren’t, cause they were always flip flopping between two extremes.

honestly I’m really surprised you like the chosen scene. it always bothered me how the kiss came out of nowhere, and joss & co were obviously trying to throw both bangel and spuffy shippers a bone without fully committing to one or the other. but honestly I do love how mature buffy is in that scene. and seeing her be so confident in her identity in a way she’s never been before. I actually liked the forever scene a lot. I liked that buffy could take comfort in something familiar, even if just for a while. also it was the only post s3 angel cameo that I didn’t found completely out of character when I first watched btvs.

honestly I always felt like their relationship was very unequal. it’s certainly not equivalent to what a real life relationship between a teenager and a 20 something would look like, but I always felt like angel had more autonomy and choices in the relationship, and there’s lots of evidence that he still viewed her as a kid (remember when he straight up called her a brat? big ole yikes there). it’s not a coincidence that buffy broke it off with angel twice in s3 and spent a lot of time trying to avoid him, but it’s angel who actually gets the last say. and he did it in such a shitty way too. I think he was in the right to break up with her, since their relationship was clearly doomed, and he actually became his own person once he left sunnydale, but he used such self righteous reasoning, and he made buffy’s struggles all about him (like in s2 when Buffy said she wanted a normal life and angel was like “before me” 🤡🤡). it was good for angel, but it was not good for buffy. he told her he wanted her to have a normal relationship, and you know what she did? she immediately rushed into a relationship with a normal guy and got hurt. buffy was way more vulnerable in their relationship than angel was, and I just can’t find myself to care about angel as much as I care about buffy in their dynamic.

honestly I have so much to say about their power dynamic. it’s not even the age gap, it’s just that angel has so much baggage that he dumps on this teenage girl without caring about the emotional consequences for her. also all the ‘old man angel’ jokes on ats just make me sideeye their relationship even more. and this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I feel like angel traumatized buffy way more than spike did. before s6 spike was pretty much just a nuisance that was rarely taken seriously, and even in s6 buffy was already going through some tough shit. he really only made up a small part of her struggles. compared with the stuff with angelus that made buffy feel like loving her was dangerous and synonymous with death. over the years she felt so much shame for her decisions (that were not her fault at all), and her experience with angel overshadowed her relationships in a way that is not romantic at all (I hate how some people romanticize buffy struggling to tell her love interests she loves them, as if it’s because she’s still in love with angel and not because she’s scared that being vulnerable in that way again will only lead to suffering for both her and everyone around her). and obviously a lot of it isn’t his fault, but it unfolds in a way that makes me really fall on buffy’s side.

so yeah. I have Many Thoughts ™ about this, which is weird cause I honestly don’t dislike bangel half of the time. I think a lot of their scenes are cute, and I sometimes get wrapped up in the dramatic romance too. but they had some major problems, and I just really dislike the idea of them ending up together. they’re just such different people at the end of their respective shows, and maybe if they had a fresh start they could make it work, but buffy had so many of her insecurities tied up in her relationship to angel that I just don’t think they could ever get past that. even if buffy herself gets over it, there’s always gonna be that implication that their relationship only leads to pain, and I don’t want that for buffy. that’s why a lot of my preferred buffy ships involve more internal conflict. it leaves room for them to change and grow together, not forcing them to be apart, and having to deal with the wreckage by themselves