#or. how do i put this. i dont generally care about middle schoolers dating. even fictional ones

[jakestasy]

Paper hearts <3

You always remembered the day you saw your now Boyfriend Yeonjun. All it took just one look for you and him to fall head over heels for each other . You first saw him being himself during lunch with your best friends kai and Beomgyu…

You were sitting in your shared bedroom with the radio on listening to it cuddling with your boyfriend yeonjun…when “Paper hearts by tori kelly” started to play… when you heard the first line you started to sing and it immediately sent you back to when you fell in love with this goofy boy you called “Junnie”

“Remember the way you made me feel, such young love but something in me knew that it was real. Frozen in my head”

Day you fell in love:

It was your sophmore year…you guys were sitting on the wall infront of Class A…when a blue haired yeonjun ran passed you chasing your classmate Taehyun…you’ll always remember the way the sun shined on his skin…the way his blue hair flowed in the wind… the way his beautiful brown eyes shined in the light…the way he shouted Taehyun’s name…from that day forth you were head over heels for the boy they called “Choi Yeonjun”.

You’ve known Yeonjun since you were small…well not personally but you guys always saw each other in the halls and at lunch…You didn’t know it at the time but yeonjun had been in love with you since he first moved to seoul…

The day Yeonjun fell for you:

It was a normal day…7th grade year…it was cold winter day…everyone was in the classroom for lunch. You were sitting across the room talking to Soobin from class B who decided to make some new friends…Yeonjun was at his desk with his head down not feeling too good…you knew he wasn’t well…not because you saw him when he came into class. but because your his seatmate…his head shot up when he heard a laugh he’s never heard before. He looked in your direction to see you laughing with soobin…Yeonjun had heard everyone in the class laugh besides you…it was the first laugh he ever thought was beautiful…He was mesmerized by your smile…in those few moments his cheeks got heated and majorly red…just seeing you in general always made the red pigment appear across his face dully…but this time it was really visible…soobin was now leaving the classroom and you were walking back to your seat when you stopped infront of Yeonjun… “Are you alright” you asked him as you rested your hand against his cheek… “I-Im alright” he stammered making you giggle…He loved how caring you are towards him and your friends…you never failed to give this boy butterflies. That was the day he fell for the person they called “Y/N”.

“Everything is gray under they skies, wet mascara. Hiding everything under a smile when there’s cameras”

But this song also brought back the bad memories you and Yeonjun have…

When you and Yeonjun started to date it wasn’t what you two imagined… it was your guy’s Junior year…you just weren’t having it with anyone one day because you had gotten some bad news…Beomgyu was moving…it may not have seemed so bad for everyone else…but for you it was a nightmare. He was your protector…your teddy bear. He was the one person you could always talk to and even though you had kai…and now jun…but you never had a super deep conversation with either of them…Gyu was the one person that was always there to pick you up when you fell. But he wasn’t there anymore. But yeonjun had no idea you and gyu were best friends .

The day you and Jun first fought:

“Hey my hunny bee” Yeonjun said hugging you from behind… “Hi junnie” you said with a sniffle…” whats wrong hunny bunny” Yeonjun said with a pout. “Nothing” you said in a small voice… “Y/Nnie!! Come here let’s take a picture for old time sake!” Beomgyu called to you…”Okay!” You said faking a happy tone…”she talks to beomgyu??” Yeonjun thought jealous of the fact he wasn’t the only boy in your life…he watched as you ran over to gyu…he watched as Beomgyu whispered in your ear…that set off a red flag in yeonjun’s head…another was set off when he saw him wrap his arms tightly around you. Meanwhile across the room: “I’ll miss you the most Y/Nnie” gyu whispered in your ear….“I-I’ll miss you too, g-gyu” you stammered on your words as you tried not to cry…”aww, your gonna make me cryy” Beomgyu Cutely whined wrapping his arms around you tightly pulling you closer to him. “Wanna go on a walk” gyu asked you and kai…”Yes” you said…you three walked outside…you guys were walking around the schoolyard when you suddenly stopped and started to cry…Beomgyu immediately wrapped his arms around you hugging you tightly…”D-Don’t leave, gyu. Please s-stay with us” You said with tears streaming down your face…”Aw, Y/Nnie I’ll still be in seoul, you can always call me” Beomgyu said softly…”That’s not the same...Hyung” Kai said his voice breaking with tears in his eyes…”Guys…” Beomgyu said his voice breaking as he hugs you and kai very tightly with tears now streaming down his face…there you three stood sobbing in each others embrace…no one realized you three hadn’t returned…But yeonjun did. Different thoughts where rushing in and out of yeonjun’s head…the way you and gyu always looked at each other…the way you and gyu were always around each other…the way gyu would always hold your hand tightly…all the ways you and gyu were always together…Yeonjun’s mind immediately went to the idea that you were cheating on him…with that thought he was pissed…when you did return tho, you were met with yeonjun pulling you away from a crying beomgyu and kai…you just looked at him confused as to why he just pulled you away from your best friends and why his hold was so tight around your wrist…”Ow! Junnie, you’re hurting me” you said trying to loosen out of his grip…”Don’t call me that” Yeonjun replied in a bitter tone…”What’s wrong, yeonjun?!” You asked a little scared by your normally calm and sweet boyfriend’s now bitter and cold tone…he pulled you into a spare classroom. Pinned you against the wall…his arms on either side of you… he looked you dead in the eyes with a face of cold seriousness…”Do you love beomgyu?!” He asked the anger clear in his voice…”Yes” you replied confused by the sudden question…”I knew it! You’re cheating on me with him aren’t you?!” He said letting the words roll off his tongue like venom…”what?!” You exclaim…”Jun, I would never…” you said tears brimming in your eyes…”Dont lie to me Y/N” yeonjun scoffed…”I see the way you two look at each other…I see how you guy’s are always together…I see everything you guys do” He continued…”He’s my best friend, you idiot!” You yelled at him…”Like id believe that” he said bluntly…”Get the hell away from me” you said with tears streaming down your face…”DID YOU HEAR ME, GET AWAY!!” You shouted pushing him away from you and into a nearby cabinet…you didn’t know the cabinet had a nail sticking out of the upper middle of it…when You shoved him back into it the nail stabbed him right in the shoulder. When he moved away from the cabinet you could see a little blood stain from where the nail stuck him…You ran out of the room and were met by three of your friends who had watched the whole thing happen…even though your eyes were clouded by tears you could see the Anger on Kai and Beomgyu’s faces as you ran passed them…Soobin ran after you while Kai was trying to stop a raging beomgyu from fucking up your Boyfriend…but kai wasn’t strong enough to stop him…next thing he knew Beomgyu and your boyfriend were on top of each other trying to rip out each others throats…there was a lot of bandages that day…

“Don’t think i would just forget about it, hoping that you won’t forget about it”

You never forgot that day…you’re still kind of hurt by the fact that your “Junnie” didn’t trust you…but you guys have now graduated high school…even though you call him your Boyfriend…he has now been your husband of 2 years…him and beomgyu are now on good terms…You, Kai,beomgyu, and your newcomers yeonjun and soobin meet up every weekend like you did when you were high schoolers and go out on your guy’s “buddy dates”…your still Surprised by the fact your beomgyu let you marry him…jun has a little scar on his shoulder from where you pushed him into the cabinet…but other than that life has been perfect for you guys…

A/N: Here is paper hearts <3 I don’t like it…but i hope you guys do…also, does anyone know how to put the keep reading thingy on these if so please let me knowwww… GN <3 (Also idk if this counts as angst…im guessing it does)

…this is jakestasy signing off for the night…

[classicaltrashical]

Okay I'm not pro-bakugou, but I'm not an asshole that's going to sh*t on you for liking him, but here are some reasons on why I really dont understand people shipping BakuDeku or liking Bakugou Katsuki in general. Not hating on you just stating some canon facts. By the way I tried to censor myself but I just stopped because I got so frustrated with the amount of abuse that Bakugou got away with in just the first few chapters of the manga.

1. Bakugou is abusive towards Izuku both physically and emotionally.

1. The first freaking page of the manga starts out with Bakugou punching Izuku (while probably using his quirk).

2. Page 12 of the first chapter Bakugou slams his hands onto Izuku's desk and uses his explosion to the point it blasts Izuku out of his desk.

- Also note Izuku's body language he is trying to be as small as possible because he already is acclimated to this treatment. He is also seen trying to be as small as possible.

3. Page 15 Bakugou destroys Izuku's notebook (destruction of property).

4. Page 16 Bakugou burns Izuku's shoulder. From the looks of this and Bakugou's attitude towards Izuku this appears to in some way be a common occurrence. Because obviously this is NOT the first time he burned Izuku.

5. Page 17 Bakugou tells Izuku and I quote from the VIZ My Hero Academia Volume 1 10th Printing September 2019 "You wanna be a hero so bad? I've got a timesaving idea for you. If you think you'll have a quirk in your next life... go take a swan dive off the roof!!" After this Bakugou makes small explosions on his palm in a threatening way and Izuku left in the classroom shaking in fear. Even his friends tell him that he went too far.

6. Of course you have the name Deku. Which when used in the context that Bakugou does in the anime means Defenseless Izuku and also uses it as the abbreviation of Dekunobou which roughly translates to "good for nothing."

7. In the flashback of Izuku and Bakugou after getting praised by their principal(?) Bakugou basically grabs Izuku by the collar of his uniform and shoved up against the wall all because Bakugou was jealous and mad that he was not the first and only student to go to U.A. from their middle school and mad because he thought Izuku was hiding his quirk all this time.

2. Izuku is still traumatized.

1. I've hinted at this above, but I don't think I would allow someone with a quirk that makes them sweat a nitroglycerin-like substance to put their smoldering hand on me. Seriously just that scene makes it clear that Bakugou has used his quirk to either frighten Izuku or to injure Izuku.

2. When going in for the entrance exam on page 2 of the third chapter Izuku is shown to turn away from Bakugou and appears to be even more nervous then before.

3. Izuku also thinks to himself about how he has to "stop flinching instinctively." Guys he flinches away from just hearing and/or seeing Bakugou. If you think this can become a healthy and stable relationship......??? Also a few pages after when everyone is gathering around their assigned testing locations someone says "he flinches at the slightest touch" after Iida grabs his shoulder.

- If you think that is freaking natural someone watching that unfold already freaking knows it's not f u c k i n g natural for some to be terrified of another person grabbing their shoulder when they even see the person performing the act. Startled perhaps, but not the way Izuku flinched. Once again in this scene (and like most throughout the first volume) Izuku tries to make himself smaller than he already is by tucking his chin towards his chest and looking away from Iida (who by the way is trying to meet Izuku's eye.) Izuku is so used to being physically abused by his peers that he flinches on contact.

4. Before entering the 1-A classroom for the first time Izuku prays that neither Bakugou or Iida would be in the same class and depicts Bakugou in a pretty demonic way.

5. After the meeting with the principal(?) Izuku instinctively raises his arms to try and block any explosions near his face.

6. After Izuku uses OFA through one finger in Aizawa's assessment test Bakugou is furious and when Izuku sees his barreling towards him he screams in fear. And guys this must be the first time someone has actually STOPPED Bakugou from tormenting Izuku because the look on Bakugou's face is pure shock. Meaning in the years (probably near a fucking decade) nobody has stopped anyone from bullying Izuku. Like that says it all, doesn't matter if you're pro-Bakugou or not Bakugou traumatized Izuku because his abuse and torment went from when they were just little kids after finding out Izuku was quirkless to right after the Sludge Monster.

Do I need to continue into Volume 2 with the whole Bakugou versus Izuku fight? But I will say this...

Izuku has started to heal.

As the manga and anime continue Izuku stops flinching everytime someone calls his name or touches him. He stops raising his arms to block a blow that won't come. He stops trying to sink in on himself. I think the best comparison of this is when Izuku first "raises" his hand in the first chapter to the one during Ectoplasm's math lesson where he stands up confidently and gives an answer.

But healing doesn't erase the past. Healing mentally doesn't erase physical scars (once again it is pretty obvious that Bakugou used his quirk on Izuku.)

Not to mention Bakugou has yet to confront what he did to Izuku. Hell he hasn't even changed much. The only change he did was not always call people somewhat derogatory names instead of their actual name. Don't give me that shit of "well he was kidnapped and felt guilty over All Might's retirement." That's just making a fucking excuse about why he should be forgiven. Was he held against his will for almost a fucking decade? No it was a handful of days and who got him out? Shockingly, but sadly not shockingly the one he decided to torment for years. Don't give me that shit about how apparently being a kid gets you out of trouble. Sure some of it was when he was a kid, but want to know something people age. Hell by the time he told Izuku to kill himself he would have been 14 and most likely almost 15. Which means he should have fucking known better! The only actual excuse I will allow to somewhat slide is the fact that as mentioned AIZAWA SHOTA WAS PROBABLY THE FIRST ADULT TO STOP BAKUGOU FROM HARMING IZUKU! Meaning every fucking adult that saw the way Bakugou acted didn't do jack shit which meant he was raised in a toxic system for years being told what he was doing wasn't something worth being punished for. But still Bakugou should have known better.

The fact that Izuku idolizes Bakugou shows how toxic even this "friendship" is. He is literally idolizing his abuser. And yeah Bakugou is an abuser sure he can be called a bully and a tormentor but he is an abuser. "A person who treats another person or animal with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly"- the fucking Oxford definition of abuser. I mean repeatedly throughout the series Izuku talks about how he has come to view Bakugou as an image of victory.

You want a character to be dating his past abuser? You really want that? I don't give a shit if you write a "they have a talk about their past" before they start dating in your story.

The fact that Bakugou's abuse and the trauma it did to Izuku hasn't been talked about yet in canon is also something that angers me a bit (hopefully Horikoshi has something planned for this). Because it's obvious from their fight during finals and their fight after the provisional license exam that they need to at least talk about it. And then get them both into fucking therapy because yikes they both need it.

And I do not fully agree with Bakugou being forced out of the Hero Course (as some people do), but at least some temporary removal. Mainly put him on probation for a while. Because I believe there are rules in Hero Society that prohibit even middle schoolers from using their quirks against someone(? Right these exist?)

Also if you think for one fucking second that Bakugou did not abuse Izuku and having them in a relationship is not toxic go read the manga and watch the anime both from the beginning because you are missing some cues.

I know that this is was supposed to be about why I don't see how people can ship this and it turned into a rant. I never really care about what other people ship but just think about this. I wrote this mainly because I have seen some people around saying that anti-bakugous overexaggerate and say that Bakugou want not an abuser when ah clearly he is. Like I could go onnnnnnnnn about how much damage Bakugou did to Izuku. We aren't exaggerating you just need to go back to the beginning and see how shitty Bakugou treated Izuku.

If you want to make an argument about how Bakugou is a good guy and how he has learned and changed and it's all good now come @ me I have volumes 1-23 and the other manga chapters on stand by and my Hulu is up and ready.

Not actually looking for an argument but I could have made this post longer but it's now almost 8am I haven't slept a wink and I'm tired.

[la5t-res0rt]

Wanted to ask about beetlelyds, sorry, I thought it was technically cannon? Like in the old comics after the show ended she grew up and married him. Sorry I’m an old school fan and have no idea why this whole thing is such a big deal. Wasn’t the actor like 20 too? I’m sorry if I sound very dumb. I’m not used to this new tumblr.

youre fine you are one hundred percent allowed to especially when you do it civilly as you have done here

first of all the biggest issue faced in the whole what is and is not canon debate is the fact that there are three (four if you count the limited comics run) publicized iterations of my media

i will go over each very briefly just kidding this is going to a long answer so i will spare the dashboard with a readmore

there is the movie which im sure you dont need me to explain the plot since youre an old school fan but basically the climax is that yes beetlejuice does go for the marriage angle in exchange for stopping the exorcism of adam and barbara and his motive for this is so that he can cause as much chaos as he wants on the mortal coil but his plan is thwarted when barbara rides a sandworm into the house which promptly eats beetlejuice sending him to bureaucratic death limbo

the end of the movie features the deetz and the maitlands happily living together with lydia havign a new appreciation for her situation and beetlejuice gets his head made real small which is very funny haha 

so no in the movie they are not canon editors note the actress who played lydia winona ryder was a teenager while filming the movie she turned 17 the year it released 

the next is the cartoon which i will admit has the most grounds for being considered canon but in the end the show is about a middle schooler and her best friend who is a ghost which in itself is a pretty iffy gray area sort of thing but for a childrens cartoon to work a friendship is better than the obvious enemy status they held in the movie

anyway in the cartoon they are potrayed to be very close friends with lydia being the person beetlejuice cares about the most and honestly if you were to watch it with no prior knowledge of the media and if you ignored their massive and obvious age difference than yeah you probably would read it as a romantic relationship 

however lydia is a middle schooler and that is simply immoral

there have been writers for the cartoon who have been credited to say that a relationship is what they were trying to invoke but for obvious reasons they couldnt exactly move forward with that angle with them establishing that lydia is a child in middle school and a fully grown adult man dating a child who is in middle school is immoral and also illegal in the united states and in canada 

this isnt a good argument for whether or not something is canon and i will tell you why with one simple name and that is luke weber

if you dont know who luke weber is he was a storyboard artist on the cartoon steven universe he is known for making a lot of self ship artwork of him and the character pearl

he worked on the show isnt his material canon no of course it isnt it wasnt put in the actual publication and also if memory serves he was eventually asked to leave the project after he drew art of the shows creator giving him permission to date pearl and calling them her otp and a lot of fans hated this because the most generally accepted interpretation of pearls character is that she is sapphic so a lot of people took issue however that again is just a widely perceived headcanon it is never stated what her actual sexuality is no one in that show is because it isnt a show about that its about wait im getting off topic sorry

what im saying is what can truly be considered canon is what you see on the screen and with the cartoon they are definitely the most friendly with each other and that is why so many people in the beetlebabe shipping community take so much stock in the cartoon because it is the easiest to read the relationship between the mas romantic although that is not what the show actually provides in black and white terms

interpretation does not equal canon and in this case no matter what anyone says the fact remains that in the cartoon itself they are friends good friends yes but friends all the same

it is definitely not a show about a grown man grooming an adult and if it were you definitely shouldn’t be stanning it the extreme because grooming a minor is wrong and it is apparently a problem in the fandom

anyway if the cartoon and the movie are both products of their time and there was more leniency on content bear in mind this was the same era as notorious animation powerhouse and known predator john k who was a showrunner on ren and stimpy and he maintained a relationship with a teenager which was an open secret that nobody really took issue with because in that time being a woman in the animation industry was tricky business and your career could be ended easily if you rejected advances luckily time has moved forward and the animation industry although still full of problems of a similar nature at least people are getting called out and punished for it

you can look more into that yourself its really upsetting though

as for comics i havent been able to find good scans of them and im not willing to purchase them but in my search i never found anything about the two of them ever being married in the cartoon again because she is a child i did find a cover where he appears to be getting married and hes asking lydia to get him out of it but im not sure where the comic actually goes all i know is she is standing off to the side shrugging and looking like she doesnt really care

anyway that brings us to the musical which is set in the modern day 

in the original libretto lydia is described as thirteen but since they got an actress who was older in the updated librettos she is listed as 15 and the story is pretty similar to the movie the young girl befriends ghosts and they try to scare her family out etc etc

the major difference between the film and the musical are that lydia and beetlejuice are more like friends like in the cartoon 

she summons him to help scare after the maitlands attempt doesnt really work so he shows up and they have fun terrorizing people together however she drops him for the opportunity to perhaps get her mom back but when no one will help she goes back to beetlejuice who tricks her into almost exorcising barbara

she agrees to marry him in order to stop the exorcism and he only wants to get married so he can be alive again and cause problems on the mortal coil like in the movie in the musical he states several times its a green card thing whihc obviously doesnt make it okay but still

anyway lydia tricks him and runs off into the underworld before the wedding can happen blah blah blah she goes back blah blah and she agrees to go through with the wedding to save her friends and family with a plan to make him go away for good

theres a very tongue and cheek song called creepy old guy which points out how wrong the whole thing is but everyone is going along with it in a very comedic matter and it includes the line 

i cant believe some cultures think this kind of things alright

basically saying yeah this is very very wrong anyway they do get married and beeltjeuice is alive for like 6 seconds before lydia stabs him to death with bad art and he dies thus nullifying the marriage because death do you part etc

so in the musical no at the end of the show they are not canon because he is dead their marriage is nullified and they go their separate ways

anyway sorry about that i just need to make it very clear that these three properties are all very distinct from each other and basically all three are indeed canon since they are publicized material and arguing the validity of which one is pointless editors note all actresses who played with the exception of dana steingold were minors for the majority of their runs as lydia with sophia ann caruso the originator of the role turning 18 during the run and dana being in her late twenties presley ryan however was a minor the whole time and still is one

tldr no they aren’t canon but to the credit of some people in this fandom their interpretation isnt too far of a stretch thanks to the era and some of the writers wishing to imply a relationship between an adult and a child

i also need to address how this is all a big deal and i suggest you take a peak through my discourse tag and check out @leedia‘s blog to see some of the more harmful things done by beetlebabe shippers

the beetlejuice fandom is home to many minors after the musical came out since musical fandom is vast and the ages of its members varies and normalizing pedophilia is harmful to them not to mention the people who have been effected by sexual harassment at the hands of adults

both sides have victims of csa but one side continues to perpetuate the cycle by showing time and time again that this behavior is normal and easily romanticized in the name of coping and literally anyone who has ever been to a good and credible therapist could tell you that posting cp even if it is simulated cp isnt a really good way to cope and you can get mad at me for saying that its totally fine but and im going to remove my character veil here for just a second as a csa survivor myself i think its harmful to not only myself but many others ok the veil is back down

tldr again there is a lot of bullying and harassment going on with both sides having their own issues but there is one side whos issues run a bit deeper in my humble opinion 

thank you for your question it allowed me to talk a lot you are welcome to discuss further with me in dms if you wish i honestly recommend giving the musical a listen because it is very fun and despite what some people say its very clever and if you get a chance to see a boot of it its visually stunning

one last note that i couldnt really fit in here but a large portion of the beetlebabes shipping community ignore the musical because it openly condemns the idea of beeltejuice and lydia having a relationship and a lot of the antis take issue with much of the writing and characterizations of the cartoon just a note that i think is important since were talking about canon

[bramblepaws]

alright i’m gonna try to put all of my thoughts on this together into one post so i dont have to say anything else about it ever again

Mike is not abusive. Lucy is not abusive.

Now, a disclaimer: if you have been abused, and you see elements of your own abuse in their relationship, that’s valid! The point of my argument is not to tell you that your relationship wasn’t abuse. You know better than anyone else what it was.

okay! now onto the meat.

To start off: evidence that Lucy is an abuser.

Lucy repeatedly hurts Mike physically from the start of the comic up ‘til December, from kicks and slaps, to hitting him with a stick, and everything in between.

Mike feels trapped in the relationship because Lucy depends on him so heavily

Mike feels cut-off from their friends, as he believes they will side with Lucy every time.

The comic started out as a slapstick one with kids in eighth grade; everyone hit each other to start with. Mike literally punts Yashy a few times. Lucy was the only one who didn’t grow out of it -- she continues to slap Mike on occasion. It never, however, follows a cycle of abuse. Abusers generally follow a cycle when they physically abuse someone: they lead up to physical violence with threats and emotional abuse, then physically attack the other person, then cycle through apologies and excuses and manipulation to keep their victim from blaming them. Lucy is physically violent with all of her friends, and does not EVER apologize or express remorse over it. I would label it as bullying behavior rather than abusive, which is terrible in and of itself.

Mike severely over-estimates how one-sided the dependency is. Neither he nor Lucy have any other friends that match the level of closeness they have with each other. I’m going to just c/p one of my other posts for clarification;

Mike and Lucy had the exact same “most people only like me cuz im attractive, Mike/Lucy is the only one who genuinely likes me for who i am” attitude regarding their other friends.

For Lucy : Daisy viewed Lucy as a romantic rival for Mike’s affection, and was pretty neutral and detached with any interaction outside of that. Paulo was interested in getting in Lucy’s pants and didn’t interact with her outside of hitting on her aggressively. David is partially there for Paulo, and partially there to ALSO hit on her. Sue and Amaya don’t interact with her much, but there is implication that they also see her as a romantic rival for Mike’s affection.

All of this results in Lucy believing that everyone has ulterior motives for being her friend. The various random middle schoolers that crush on her and call her hot encourage this view. Mike is the only one who doesn’t fit into this pattern; they met on the pretext of (what she saw as) friendly competition and nothing else. She was the one who initiated friendship, further proving that he doesn’t have ulterior motives.

For Mike : Daisy saw Mike as a romantic interest and didn’t interact with him outside of hitting on him. Paulo saw Mike as a romantic rival for Lucy’s affections and a person to insult. David is there for Lucy and Paulo, and doesn’t really interact with Mike outside of interacting through those people. Sue and Amaya both see Mike as a romantic interest.

All of this results in Mike… most likely ALSO believing that people have ulterior motives for being his friend. He takes note of the fact that many girls are interested in dating him in “Prom Preparation” and laments that fact, as he isn’t interested in any of them. Lucy is the only one who doesn’t fit into this pattern; she established their friendship on the pretext of competition, which he enjoys (though he wishes she was less harsh about it), and zero romantic interest. She also tries to stick by him even when he’s romantically unavailable (regarding Sandy), further cementing the idea that she isn’t using him for something else.

Mike and Lucy are both VERY reliant on the other person to be their only True Friend. they both crush on each other throughout the series, but it’s understood for both of them that they aren’t going to let that get in the way of other things. they both see past the exterior of the other person – Mike sees that Lucy is sweet and fun under her “hot” & spiky exterior, and Lucy sees that Mike is sweet and fun under his “hot” & humble exterior. They relied on each other to see themselves as like… real people, rather than either something to be Won or competed with.

On another note, Mike relied just as heavily on Lucy for emotional support — she comforted him every time he was upset about Sandy, had his back during and after Confrontation, and generally set aside her teasing if it seemed like he was actually upset about something. In return he protected her from her phobia of water, defended her from the ire and desire of their friends, and gave emotional support back. Their dependency was about equal in the end, though Mike later leaned heavily on the idea that she needed him more than he needed her (and was proven wrong, as recent chapters have shown).

The above paragraphs also illustrate that BOTH of them felt cut off from friends; neither of them felt that any of their other friends were dependable for much. When it came down to it, Daisy would always side with Mike and Paulo would always side with Lucy. Lucy felt equally sure that people, aside from Paulo, would side with Mike.

The main issue here, however, is that nobody spoke up about Lucy’s physical bullying of Mike. They all grew up hitting each other for the lulz, and when they all slowly drifted to a stop she didn’t. But Mike never acted like it bothered him, never said anything against it — so I have to assume that everyone, Lucy included, just inferred that Mike didn’t mind it. Mike resented this, but he never said anything about it, because he was used to it too. It took Sandy to help him realize that he didn’t deserve to be hit — but for some reason, he bottled it up and grew resentful instead of communicating with Lucy about it. Lucy, meanwhile, has been shown to be respectful of the boundaries of other people once they’ve clearly set them. It’s my belief that she would’ve stopped hitting if he had asked her to. In an abusive relationship, that just isn’t the case. Asking an abuser to stop doing something is a surefire way to be manipulated/gaslit and then for the activity to either remain the same or increase. We can’t know for sure because Mike never asks her to stop, but there is no indication that he never says anything about it because he’s afraid of retaliation. He’s not afraid of her at all, which is another point in the favor of it not being abuse.

Another important detail: Lucy isn’t controlling. When she finds out Mike is still interacting with a girl he originally left her for, she’s genuinely happy for him and gives him space about it. She gets pissed about it later when he isn’t being honest with her or himself, but is genuinely happy when he IS honest about it because she knows Sandy is important to him. Most abusers would not handle the situation the same way. If Lucy was abusive, she would’ve most likely reacted with anger and a desire to stop communication between the two of them. She could have used third grade as a way to guilt-trip and manipulate Mike out of interacting with Sandy, who posed a threat to their relationship. But she didn’t. This doesn’t inherently make her NOT an abuser, but it’s a tick in that direction. Lucy also doesn’t influence their friends to side against Mike at all. She’s just… living her life, not really giving a shit either way WHAT her friends think about either her or Mike. Abusers are generally very concerned with how they’re viewed. They put in a lot of time and effort to make sure they seem like nice, likable people. They’re especially controlling about how their victim sees them — Lucy never really influences Mike either way other than just Being Around As His Friend. She doesn’t seem to even care about his opinion at all -- until later on in their relationship, when she opens up to outsiders how much his opinion matters to her. But even at that point… she’s not really doing anything to influence him aside from just Being Nicer, which is something a normal friend would do and isn’t manipulative at all.

Overall, Lucy just doesn’t strike me as abusive. The physical attacks and general mean-ness are absolutely bullying and toxic behavior, and the relationship between the two of them is clearly codependent and toxic. But Lucy isn’t controlling, she isn’t manipulative, she doesn’t gaslight. She isn’t hell-bent on making sure Mike thinks only the best of her while making him think of himself as complete garbage — she goes out of her way to be as honest and frank with him about herself (aside from her crush on him) as she can. She was a bad friend, but not an abusive one.

Now, on to Mike!

Evidence that Mike is an abuser.

Lucy feels incredibly dependent on their friendship

Mike was manipulative during December

Mike is being manipulative and controlling after their friendship ended

Re: dependency — see above long paragraphs about their relationship.

December was a horrible, heart-wrenching chapter. Mike had bottled up feelings and built up resentment for a LONG time leading up to this, and all of it exploded out at once in an irreversible decimation of their friendship. And that’s exactly what he wanted it to be — he was tired of her trying to be his friend, and he’d hinted at it plenty of times, but enough was enough and he had to spell it out for her. He tells her he hates her. Explains that Sandy helped him see that it wasn’t right to let Lucy hurt him all the time. And then says that he’s going to stop hanging out with her at lunch. All of this is standard horrible-friend-breakup stuff; it’s the next two bits that get the honor of making the whole event Unforgivably Bad.

Mike tells her that if he leaves, all of their other friends will probably follow him. Lucy will be left alone.

This is an absolutely horrible thing to say to someone. To tell them that no one actually likes them, they’re just tolerated. That if all the friends were forced to choose between two people, they sure wouldn’t pick Lucy! And Lucy would be abandoned, which has been her number one fear since third grade (and why wouldn’t it be? humans are social creatures and NEED friends to survive).

But this isn’t abuse. It definitely rings as something close. In fact — (this is gonna be personal for the first time in the essay just to warn u) — the person who abused ME used a similar tactic, though with a different endgame in mind. When I rejected him the first time, he forced our friends into a position where they had to choose between us. His intent was to get me to relent and date him, to stop causing strife in our mutual friend group — or, failing that, to punish me for taking away what he saw as rightfully his (aka me).

Mike’s actions were similar, but his intention was very different. He wanted her to hurt; he wanted revenge for the way he had been treated, and he wanted to make it VERY clear that he didn’t want to be friends with her. He wanted, furthermore, to prove that he wasn’t in the wrong for this: he was the victim, and other people treating Lucy like she was a bully would be validating for his own victimhood.

I genuinely don’t think he was trying to manipulate her here. He was trying to hurt her badly and was succeeding in doing so. He was being absolutely monstrous, but not abusive. His intent with this was not to control; he was lashing out to hurt someone who had hurt him, which Everyone Does. It was horrible, but not abusive. It pushed Lucy into a depression, but it wasn’t abusive. It not being abusive doesn’t make it any less fucked up IMO. It was terrible and it had terrible consequences! It just was a different beast than abuse.

After Lucy comes back, Mike is clearly consumed with guilt. All he does for her first day there is hide from her and stare guiltily at her from a distance. He tries to talk to her a couple of times, but isn’t able to catch her alone. He gets antsy about old physical violence from her and yells about it, then tries AGAIN to catch her alone so they can talk but does it in a really weird passive-aggressive manner because she’s been acting weird and he doesn’t know how to handle it, and he doesn’t really want to deal with his guilt over what he said in December. She gives him the chance to apologize, but is openly resistant to it, and he ends up completely fumbling the ball and doing just a god-awful job of apologizing, and then getting overly defensive about Sandy and completely ruining any chance he had. He starts clinging to his victim complex with everything he’s got, because suddenly he can see how much he fucked things up, and he doesn’t know how to handle it. He follows her again, because he misses her and hates her and misses Sandy and wants her to be there for him and wants her to prove that she deserved what he said to her. He’s called out for glaring at her and is Reminded Again That Sandy’s AWOL.

But most of this isn’t what people point to when they’re saying he’s abusive — this is all just him being a freak, but like, a normal freak. It’s in Witch Hunt that he flips into the extreme again. He starts ranting and raving about how obsessed Lucy is to Daisy, despite like… having just seen how much she doesn’t want male attention…… I think it’s partially because he’s used to her leaning on him when others ramp up their romantic attention for her, because he used to be the one that would just leave her alone in that regard. Plus there’s the whole messed-up-about-Sandy thing that Lucy used to swoop in and comfort him for. But I’m getting off track.

He starts ranting about how obsessed she is with him. Daisy is immediately like “I don’t think she is dude” but he relents, so she snaps at him and storms off.

From what I understand, people are reading this scene as abusive because they interpret this as him trying to control how others see Lucy. He’s ranting about a mutual friend he’s having trouble with, which he HAS done about Lucy in particular a number of times. I can definitely see where people are coming from with this one. If you look at it a certain way, it comes across as him trying to slander her name. But it could just as easily be him ranting about a person he’s having trouble with, which everyone does, all the time. I’ve ranted about a person I don’t like to people plenty of times, and it was never ABUSIVE, because all of the other requirements for abuse weren’t set into place.

This, IMO, falls under the same category as Lucy’s physical violence. It’s definitely present in abusive situations, but there are guidelines for abuse that it just doesn’t fit into. He doesn’t have control over Lucy or any of their friends in this scenario. He isn’t using this to try and isolate Lucy; he’s just trying to get his friends to see his side of the story and help him feel better about the awful way he treated her. It’s Super Shitty, but it isn’t abuse.

In summation: I get the bits and pieces that people see in their relationship that matches up with abuse, but there just isn’t enough there to label either Mike or Lucy abusive. The basic requirements for abuse haven’t been met. There are things present that can definitely happen in abusive relationships, and their relationship was absolutely toxic and bad, but it isn’t abuse.

As a final note of evidence that I fall back on every time the subject comes up: both parties have been offered up as possible abusers. Lucy has been stated by many to be possibly abusive, and Mike has been stated by just as many to be possibly abusive. But they can’t BOTH be abusive — that’s not how abuse works. They can be mutually toxic toward each other, they can both exhibit bullying behavior, but they can’t be abusing each other at the same time. Abuse only works when there is an abuser and a victim. There is always a victim, who is not at all at fault for how the relationship is! And Mike and Lucy both played their part in their relationship becoming as toxic as it is. So it literally CANNOT be abuse.

[strawberryspeachy]

Also im sick of obnoxious japanese eaters

Things ive found out are myths here

1) everyones nice.

No. Everyone smiles hard to cover up whatever assholery theyre doing - if theyre supposed to be nice to you. Public people are the same as usual... except theres alot more shoving

2) everything about school

They don’t pay for school. Its free. Just like ours. Except private school. Just like ours

They are not MORE overworked in school nor do they study more. Their rules are much loser. And just like the states, teachers have no real authority- but unlike the states - the students do not fear repercussions. They can be touched though but thats more because japanese people think its fine to touch each other a lot - ya know. Just dont hug as an adult - but all other invading of some kind of private bubble is fine

3) SLURPING No thats not just a “it shows you love the food!” Bs. Just like the states, the people you hear disgustingly slurping just eat loud and are gross... imo... people here dont seem to think its gross but far more people eat like civilized humans and dont slurp everything from solids to actual liquids.

K like every time the past two days ive had to be near people slurping their fucking food and as a person who HATES hearing people eat... its why im bitching here. LETTUCE DOES NOT NEED SLURPED

4) just anything they call “culture” they used a pretty word to cover for “thats just the dumb thing we do here” its literally like if we said aggressively speed driving and cutting people off is new yorkers culture

Japan has a lot of history and traditions. But mostly they have a lot of bs that theyre just too stubborn to acknowledge and change so they lable it culture. Any changes they make are pretty much like when my great grandmother got a cell phone.

She only turned it on to charge it and make a phone call - leave a voicemail saying that she called - and then would turn it back off. It wasnt ever even on long enough for her to need to charge it.

But in her mind no one could complain that she didnt have one. And the only emergency in her mind was her needing to call you - not vice versa. She wouldnt use it for any other purpose and generally resented its existence. She hated watching anyone else use their cell phones to check the time or take pictures or play games or have lenthy conversations.

Yea. Thats basiclly japan with everything new. They have it. But they dont use it , and its possibilities scare them so the old ppl say its not allowed to be used unless the old people need to use it

Sorry man i hate everywhere i am. My aparment is next to a bar that looks permanently closed during the day. I had no clue it was there till after i moved in and the loud karaoke blared into my window every damn night

My train line is a nightmare and if you wanna see the worst japanese people can be. Ride the train during rush hours

My post office is far away and they refuse to ring my doorbell when i have a delivery and instead just leave slip - if you dont hike over in their made up time period they throw your stuff away

No one will actually help you with serious stuff. They just smile and say sorry and run away — customer service. Yea. Not customer service. They could just as easily be a manican with a smiley face - itd serve the same purpose.

Theres too much paperwork constantly all the time about everything

Nothing is online

Another thing that prompted me for this “this is japanese chocolate”

Cool. I got that its japanese. Im in japan. Everything people point out for me “its japanese____” fucking imagine if we felt the need to point out every damn item as “american” in the states. Why? What is the meaning of this?

They gave me a table to sit at at this school. A table. That they make lunch on and put all their supplies on. A dude just kicked my chair as he came over for some shit. Why am i sitting at a table? Very very few japanese people ive worked with dont make me feel like an adopted pet dog that theyre not sure if itll bite. Dog. Not new person. They literlly have the children fetch me...

And ive grown so so very tired of being asked questions with the intention of having me overhype japan while maintaining that im so stupid that i know absolutely nothing about the country

98% of japanese people assume that you think of japan like youve never even heard of their country before arriving and that you just arrived two days ago

Also. Maybe they think their test scores and clases are so much more difficult because they cant seem to fathom that most other countries schools function the same way as theirs

Yesterday a teacher said “ah theyre so overworked. They have alot to remember” i thought she was about to tell me how many units were on their exam or something... no “english, japanese, science, math, history, pe, food class, art! Too many things. Theyre very overworked”

..... are you for real? Im pretty sure every fucking school has those subjects if you switch out japanese for the countries native language.... this is NORMAL

Im sorry. I know the reason anyone talking to me like this might not like me. Cause im not gonna go WOWWW SUGEII?!?!? So much stuff!! Poor them!

No. Yeah? Thats school...

Look im not an asshole to my kids. If they can manage to tell me any information about their life in english or simple japanese i can translate - i act surprised/ or am if their english is super good.

But adults... no man. Learn some stuff about the outside world. Youre not specifical

Also dating boys here is just like back home except they wont block you and they respond less

Instead of getting “nice” “oh” “idk” and “maybe” as there fading messages - they just leave you on read. Or give you some random information that you didnt ask about that has no relevance to the ‘convo’

Also also. “Speak slow” they dont say this in a ‘my english is not good so speak slower’ way. They say this in a ‘i felt really good about my english until you spoke at a normal pace and my classes and ass-kissing white dudes have taught me that enlgish is spoken slow and percisely so if you dont speak with a japanese accent, your fast english is wrong’

Whatever but like... could you return the favor by speaking japanese slowly. Speak it the way you want me to speak english....

Telling them to speak slow results in something like

... nihon..de〜 nan mabdnshsnabsjsnjsbshssnbsjsbsjshsh ka?

Woah ok... something in Japan... couldnt catch the rest of that

Id be more understanding of this. Its hard to speak slow. Lets both acknowledge this and not - teachers compalining to principals and boys... (1) sending me a fucking video on how to speak my own damn language properly

Also. Do you know how upsetting it is to listen to a student say something perfectly but before i get to praise them - have the japanese teacher jump in and “correct” them...... no no dude please. I know youll have a fucking meltdown if i say no your ways wrong. But now this student is so confused desperately staring at me positive theyre correct and all ive come up with to do is smiling and nodding at them while repeating the way they said hoping the japanese teacher wont notice/get offended

Also togo food... if its not american fast food... generally you cant take it to go... its sad. I have no friends. I just wanna take this home to eat in front of my tv. This isnt serious. Its just a minior inconvenience

Also joking... my japanese isnt good enough to joke. And... idk how... cant explain. The other day a student asked whats my favorite food

And another went hamburger?!? Mcdonalds!!?

I wanted to comment.. but. At least elementary students understand sarcasm. Their teachers dont. And whether the middle schoolers understand and just dont care is up in the air.

Oh! And. I was right last week when i didnt trust my teachers saying that the obvious bullying was just a misunderstanding and the obvious targets fault. Another straight up teacher said some kids have left the school because of bullying and theyre really awful when left alone in the rooms... i told him thats why we cant go unsupervised in america. Japan says the students are just perfect upstanding citizens, so much more caring and mature than other students. Nope. Middle schoolers will be middle schoolers no matter what country.