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larriefails · 5 years

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+ seasurfacefullofclouds*tumblr*com/post/183771544610/sea-sometimes-i-just-think-what-if-they-hadnt

I really shouldn’t be wasting my time addressing this mess, but I just… can’t help it. I’m gonna take the shortest possible break from studying to drag this. If I fail it’s your fault for sending this link and you’ll be the one explaining it to my mom!

“I think the boys lost a huge opportunity.”

None of the following text addresses how she starts it. What huge opportunity did they lose? If this is the first sentence you write on a long ass text, I at least expect an explanation s for why you said it. What opportunity?

“They were signed and worked as employees, initially, without creative or financial power.”

Yeah, no brainer, since they were 16/18 with zero musical experience other than performing at weddings and their high school musicals and were all from middle class families. Imagine if these guys had been given the creative reins of Up All Night

“It seems that Sony/ Syco had no confidence in their longterm potential as artists (whether individually or as a group), so the corporate tactic was to wring as much out of them as possible within the time frame of their contract.”

That’s a whole lot of assumption, what’s it based on? Why does it “seem” that way? What part of Syco’s strategy hinted at them not seeing long term potential? With boybands, labels tend to be more focused on the financial gain they can squeeze off them in the immediate, sure, but that doesn’t mean that they see no long term potential. In fact, I would argue that these corporate people would have to be terrible at their jobs for that to be the case. Name one boyband with even mild success, ever, that’s not still giving bucks, whether as a group or as individuals. One. Just one. New Kids On The Block? Westlife? Backtreet Boys? Justin Timberlake? Take That? The Jonas Brothers? Seriously… one. This is a ridiculous statement that isn’t backed up by reality. Of course most boybands have a shell life and their initial success fizzles out. Most of them won’t even bring a fraction of the cash 10 years in, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t still money to be made. It’s not that Syco didn’t have confidence in their long term potential as artists, it’s that they knew that boybands are usually like fireworks, and they were right..

Current numbers for all their albums according to Wikipedia (because I cannot be bothered looking for music specific sources, send them if you want)

Up All Night 4,754,434 X

Take Me Home 4,966,424 X (UP!)

Midnight Memories 4,607,667 X (DOWN!)

Four 2,698,500 X (DOWN!)

Made In The AM 1,935,300 X (DOWN!)

They went from almost 5 million albums certified to under 2 million. Touring went from theaters with Up All Night, to arenas with Take Me Home, to stadiums with Where We Are, but by that point, it started to decline as well:

Where We Are total attendance 3,439,560 people in 69 shows, about 50K average X

On The Road Again total attendance 2,337,938people in 80 shows, less than 30K average X

Boyband audiences grow out of them and move on to different artists. A label squeezing all the money they can get out of the first few years is just the smart thing to do, but that doesn’t mean that there’s no money to be made afterwards or that there are no long term plans. This statement is simply idiotic, not surprising given who it comes from

“In the meantime, both Irving Azoff and Sony recognized Harry’s potential as the traditional boyband breakout star, as well as his relative youth, vulnerability and ambition. They knew he had the star quality, if motivated in the right way.”

I’m convinced she doesn’t reread what she types because here she contradicts her statement from before

It seems that Sony/ Syco had no confidence in their longterm potential as artists (whether individually or as a group)

and

In the meantime, both Irving Azoff and Sony recognized Harry’s potential as the traditional boyband breakout star

So which one is it, Sea? Did Sony not see individual potential or did they see it? You can’t use “in the meantime” for a sentence that contradicts the one that comes right before

Syco is owned by both Simon Cowell and Sony Music. If Sony saw potential, then so did Syco, because Syco is part of Sony

Also this had me cackling “as well as his relative youth” .. what was “relative” about Harry’s youth when he met Jeff Azoff? He was nineteen. That’s not “relative youth” that’s just youth. Otherwise you should be mummified, Sea. I’m not pointing this out for any other reason than the fact that she clearly tries to embellish her sentences with pompous adjectives without care for what they actually mean

“On the other hand, Louis had a differing view of what the band could accomplish within the framework of what they’d signed. He wanted the boys to learn about the creative aspects of music-making (songwriting, recording, performing, producing) as well as the business aspect. They all knew they were being used as money machines— but Louis wanted to look behind the machine.”

Don’t get me wrong, I adore Louis, but… what evidence is there of this? That he wanted to write more? That’s not what he said over and over. Louis explained that he didn’t feel he had a place in the band, that he felt like he wasn’t paying his due, so to speak, so he wanted to make himself important by writing. This whole “Louis was the brains of 1D” is nothing more than Larrie Lore. There’s absolutely nothing to back this up at all. This backstory to his songwriting isn’t backed up by Louis himself

And he only talked about songwriting, he never talked about producing, or recording, or performing. I just really wanna know why the real Louis isn’t enough and why they have to fabricate this entire new persona for him. He opens himself up and tells the world what his insecurities are and you just erase them and replace HIS STORY with your new version. For no reason other than because it suits your conspiracy better. It’s sick

“I’m sure they all independently wanted this, but as we learned from Savan’s interview, Louis was the instigator, and he was willing to make himself the bad guy in order to get what the band wanted, to stir up bad feelings.”

No, you completely stripped Savan Kotecha’s interview from context. Savan doesn’t say that they’ll never have any creative input. He specifically says “in the beginning” LINK to Savan’s podcast

“Yeah, I think, like, it was a lot in the very beginning. And I’ll take a lot of blame for some of the stuff in the very beginning. They were a manufactured boyband. That’s what it was. They weren’t all hustling musicians trying to make it. They were on a TV show and, and we purposefully, and I was open about that. Like ‘you’re gonna hate hate the music that you do in the beginning.’ Like, I was open about that. You’re 17, 18 year old boys, you’re not supposed to like what a boyband does.”

I’m not going to transcribe the whole podcast here, you should listen to it, it’s not that long. But basically, he explains that, because he met them during the X Factor days, it was harder for him to go from seeing them as those reality show kids to people that actually knew a thing or two about music. He says that he directed them to Julian Bunetta (who took over as the overall creative director of the albums) and that it was easier for Julian to work with them rather than being authoritative because Julian didn’t have that bias of meeting them so young and inexperienced

He admits he was wrong for seeing them that way because he thinks they’re all incredibly talented now and doing amazing things. What Sea here fails to point out is that for this same album that Savan talks about, he wrote with Harry, and he had this to say about it, in the same podcast that’s used as proof of the opposite

“So, with Harry, it was really interesting. Harry always, especially since album two, you really saw he’s a really fucking good writer. Like, we did a song together, like for the third album, the only thing we did for the third album, and the song “Happily” which I’m really proud of, and I think he is, as well. He was, it wasn’t like that thing, where like, writing down for the artist, he was like fucking great, like bringing ideas. So that was cool to see.”

So how does this go with Louis being the instigator? Savan doesn’t say that at all. He doesn’t imply that. What he plainly says is that he didn’t see Louis in that role

But I think, especially, with like one of the particular members, it was hard to see that person, and like take that person the way he wanted to be seen, and he became, like, the loudest voice of the group. And at that point, I just told the label, it became kind of like unhappy for me to feel like, ‘why’s he doing that?’

There’s a lot of projection and a lot of reading between the lines of this podcast. And this is used as fodder for a lot of the Lore in the conspiracy of Louis being sabotaged (it’s the basis of most Rads theories). Louis didn’t sacrifice himself like a lamb so the others could get creative input. Read the quote from Louis himself that I pasted before. Louis wanted to make himself important because he wasn’t getting many solos and he was insecure as to what his place in the band was. It’s not only stripping Louis away from his own words, but it’s also stripping all the other four from their artistic wants and needs. You think Niall, the Niall that scrapped a whole album and started from scratch didn’t want creative input? You think Zayn didn’t want it? You think Harry didn’t want it? Liam who wrote almost as many songs as Louis? Of course they wanted it, they just went about it differently. Louis has said several times that he has trouble holding his tongue, I think he’d be the first one to admit he probably could’ve handled things differently here. He has that personality, and as a fan, you don’t get to take that away and replace it with something that you find more palatable. You don’t get to make him Jesus, crucifying himself so the others can be free of sin. You don’t get to silence him when he admits to his own faults and takes ownership of his flaws. And you don’t get to change history

Savan’s mistake was not loosening the reins and for having a prejudice about Louis. And he admits to it. No part of this podcast and no quote from Louis indicates that Louis sacrificed himself for the creative input of the band. these are the facts

Savan had a hard time giving up control, true, but he was also willing to work with Harry

Savan had a (wrong) prejudice against Louis

Louis wanted more writing freedom because he (wrongly) believed that he wasn’t earning his keep in the band

All your other conclusions are nothing more than bullshitting from reading wrongly between the lines

And I’m gonna say something controversial.. they were still green in Midnight Memories. Look at this

That’s the aggregated score of the main music critics all over the world, it isn’t just one biased review. As fans, we love the album because we love the band and that’s that, but it was the worst received by critics. Five points difference with Up All Night, that is a lot by Metacritic standards. A steep decline of nine points from Take Me Home. I think Midnight Memories could’ve been better if they had more of a companionship when writing because most of its flaws come from poor lyrics, at least in my subjective opinion

“Louis thought the contract would end at some point, and then they could use what they had learned— the industry contacts they had made, their new knowledge— to either continue with 1D on their own terms, or to do whatever they wanted individually.”

Bullshit. What do you even say to contradict something that’s a complete fabrication? There’s not a shred of proof of any of this. Louis has never talked about any of this. No one else has ever talked about any of this. These words put together have no meaning other than them sounding cool in Sea’s head

“Challenging the industry’s endgame isn’t something that industry tolerates lightly.”

And see, this is where we completely lose track of reality. Savan was talking about them wanting to write more and divide the voices in tracks and that sort of stuff. Louis was talking about wanting more songwriting credits. Neither of them (nor anyone else) talked about contracts and beyond 1D and terms and challenging the industry’s endgame

This is why I went into so much detail and was so nitpicky on what Savan said and what Louis said, because Larries/rads take “Louis wanted to write more and Savan didn’t have faith in him so Louis cuss him out” to “Louis pushed the whole band and made them open their eyes to the malice of the industry and it’s because of that he had to be PUNISHED”

“Sony knows One Direction was lightning in a bottle. They’ve tried numerous times to duplicate the boyband formula, but have failed. No one else is One Direction.”

Bullshit. I mean, One Direction was unique, and many (all labels, not just Sony) have tried to replicate the boyband success since them and failed (I’d argue that BTS is not that far off, selling out Wembley and all that), but Sony has seen success in a lot of other artists from a lot of other genres since 1D, they’re not bleeding without it

“Instead, Sony’s best bet (if they were going to lose 1D) was to shift the lightning to Harry Styles, with the help of Irving Azoff— an industry titan. It seems foolproof.”

Another conspiracy. Irving and Sony came together to push Harry. Bullshit. Harry nearly signed with UMG just before signing with Columbia. He had a major offer from Apple that pushed Columbia’s offer to be higher. What would Sony gain from partnering with Irving and pushing Harry as a solo mega star when they weren’t guaranteed to have him sign with them? More so, Columbia’s CEO was another guy when Harry met Jeff. Sony’s CEO was a different guy. There were shifts all over their boards. A label doesn’t take one of their biggest current acts (One Direction in 2013) and risk their current profit, making moves they wouldn’t otherwise make, in order to potentially get profit four years down the line

What Sea is saying here is that Harry was pushed as the front man of 1D in 2013 in order to have him as the breakout for Sony later. That’s not a strategy anyone with a brain would agree on. One Direction was selling FIVE MILLION ALBUMS A YEAR. Why would they mess around with that just to get a breakout star that they had no idea they’d even sign in the future?

Was Harry the frontman? Yes. Was there a push for it from within? Sure. But that’s not how this works. You know who was the frontman when 1D was formed? Liam

Look at the amount of solo shots he has, even a shirtless one..

These snapshots were taken on the same day, October 6th 2010

Liam had 5 thousand more followers than Harry, that’s 30% more. The reason is that Liam had already auditioned for the X Factor in 2009, and he’d made it through until bootcamp, where he was eliminated. When he came back in 2010, he was already sort of known, especially for the X Factor audience. The X Factor pushed him as the face of the band because of that

THAT is how it works. They pushed a frontman because it was convenient for the band AS IT WAS HAPPENING, not in an unknown potential future. For whatever reason, Harry took more with the public, and because the people running the show (and the labels) aren’t stupid, they went with it. Harry became the center of more photoshoots, and he started sitting next to the host in talk shows, and stuff like that. In that sense he was “pushed” but not because of some weird “he’ll be the breakout star” conspiracy

This is what you sound like

Every single band has that one more popular member with fans. Every label pushes that member more to the forefront when they notice. This has the effect of making that member even more popular, and on the circle goes. It has nothing to do with “future breakout star” conspiracies

“And it still may be. The way that Louis’ personal life has been slowly degraded over time, with negative media coverage, their portrayal of him as a cussing, drinking, fighting, partying, dissolute has-been who pines for his glory days, is an image that even the fandom now believes. He’s required to constantly relive this image and bring up in interviews, the son he helped conceive in a moment of hard partying (whereas he’s been with Eleanor for seven years with 100% effective birth control).”

The fact that you believe you’re a fan of Louis’ is frankly, the worst insult you could hurl at him. We don’t see Louis like that, the world doesn’t see Louis like that. YOU may see him like that, but that’s where it ends. Niall cusses and drinks more than Louis. Liam parties more than Louis. I don’t think anyone particularly sees any of the 1D guys as beefers. No one sees him as a “has been” he’s twenty seven for fuck’s sake. He’s not pining for his glory days, he just liked being in One Direction

Who “in the fandom” believes that? And don’t bring up random haters because random haters believe Zayn is a meth addict and Liam is an idiot who can’t read. Random haters don’t represent “the fandom”, if you can even call 1D stans that anymore

What part of what you said is Louis “required to constantly relive” in interviews? What regurgitated version of his interviews did you consume? I could start guessing that you mean what he said during promo for Miss You about how he was partying to mask the pain of missing Eleanor, but that’s giving you too much credit, trying to decode the absolute bullshit that spouts off your fingers. Obviously that’s not what Louis said in Miss You promo, but I’m not even gonna try and guess, you decided already that Louis is being sabotaged, so you’re looking for it, and you’re gonna see it in the most innocuous of his interviews

“Sony couldn’t have done a better job if they tried. Harry, the star of their choosing, has fans rushing to defend him whenever the disparity in image and opportunity is even hinted at. Louies usually go quiet— because even pointing out this fact earns one the moniker of being a “Radical.””

All members have former 1D members have “fans rushing to defend” their faves when someone says one word seemingly negative about them. It’s called stan culture. You personally just receive more from Harries because he’s the only one you pick on, you absolute moron

And the words immediately after are proof of that “the disparity in image and opportunity is even hinted at” what disparity? There’s “disparity” among all of them, they all had different sets of opportunities because they have different goals and strategies. Harry’s goal wasn’t radio and chart single success, it was album and touring, so he and his team went for that (but you judged his success throuh radio and chart single success anyway, skewing his results, of course). Niall and Liam went for the former. Louis had an incredibly difficult time because his mother passed away right as he was starting his solo career, and he has the added difficulty of being the eldest of many siblings and having a child in a different country. Reducing his personal life issues as nothing but noise and pretending that Louis’ actual problems were, instead, artificially created by TPTB is incredibly demeaning for the strength of character Louis has shown and it pains me that he has “fans” like you

You’re called Radical because you believe in the conspiracy that Louis’ life has been manipulated and his opportunities cut short so Harry could have his chance. Aside from the fact that it’s an insulting thing to say because of all the reasons I described, how would it even make sense? Louis is Harry’s competition? If Louis is put down then Harry thrives? How? How does that work? Are they the only two people in the music industry? Is this Apple Music vs Spotify? If Irving and Sony quash Louis, Harry rises because he’s the only competitor left? Do you not think that if the music industry truly worked that way (putting one artist down to lift another up), which, let’s be very clear here it doesn’t and it never has, The Rolling Stones and The Beatles were both super successful at the same time… do you think that Louis would be Harry’s only rival to defeat? Or even just the other members of 1D? Where does that put fucking Ed Sheeran or Justin Bieber or Shawn Mendes or Charlie Puth or The Chainsmokers or Halsey or Ariana Grande or..

Harry, Louis, Niall, they’re white men. They’re not black women going into a business ruled by males. They’re not Cardi B and Nicki Minaj, having to dispute the entire audience for a black female rapper. White men make it in the industry all the time. The media will pit them against each other and so will fans because it’s fascinating to watch a rivalry, but more than one, two, three, ten, white males can make it at the same time. Go back to the Rolling Stones and Beatles example

“If there’s any doubt that Louis has been singled out, just look at who Simon Cowell keeps by his side, despite the fact that Louis was specifically mentioned by Savan as the pain in corporate’s ass.”

Back to this conspiracy. Savan didn’t “specifically mention” Louis as “a pain in corpirate’s ass”. Savan complained TO corporate that Louis was being a pain in HIS ass. His own specific ass. And “corporate” told Savan “kay then leave?”, then they hired someone else to do Savan’s job, and allowed Louis to write as much as his heart desired. How is this making any points for you? It’s actually the opposite! Yeah, Louis is Simon’s protege, which is a great position to have…??? And Louis has spoken plenty about how much he likes Simon??

“Who got to do America’s Got Talent? Who started an imprint under Syco?”

This is such a self drag. “Who got opportunities!!!” Uh, Louis..

“Who got Rusty Eslamifar and Simon Jones as a package?”

Louis hired them. His family is still close to Russell, and he still chooses Simon Jones, so.. another self drag

“Who had to do TXF for six months? Who sent out an email to fans about his girlfriend?”

Who has lots of siblings? Who has blue eyes? Who’s from Doncaster? Who doesn’t like avocado? Who - oh, sorry, I thought we were just naming random facts about Louis, yanno given the fact that none of what you’re describing is a problem for anyone other than fucking Larries

“Incidentally, the interaction between Simon and Louis on TXF was weird as hell, as were the interactions between Louis, Rob Stringer, and Simon at the Hollywood Walk of Fame. You could cut the strain with a knife, like two cats with the mouse they’re torturing while making it look like play.”

Are you like, okay? I mean, that’s a rhetorical question cuz I know you’re not but I mean… wow

“I think the band lost its chance when Sony executed its plan.”

Here you go back to the first sentence that you never explain, and you still… don’t explain it. What chance did they lose? They made five records that sold millions worldwide and they did two stadium tours. Zayn didn’t wanna continue, neither did Harry, so they stopped. Once again, I’m not even gonna try and guess what you’re implying here… Zayn leaving was a stunt? Harry wanting a break was Sony’s plan? God, who cares about anything you say? You’re a certified nutjob. You’re making conspiracies out of EVERYTHING. Why am I wasting my time?

“I don’t know what choice Harry had, but we are made to think that he’s hsppy with all of it. I think the way that his image rolled out shows us what they planned to do and what they promised him— with comparisons to The Beatles, Bowie, Prince, Freddie Mercury, Elvis— not lightweights lol.”

You’re doing that thing conspiracy theorists do where you act like what the media says about an artist or celebrity is all concocted by the “team”. Harry was not compared to any of those people by anyone in his team. That was the media

Like, this is my problem with everything Sea says, she just says it as if it’s a forgone conclusion but she doesn’t back any of it up with anything. She doesn’t elaborate her conspiracy theories, she just jumps to the conclusion as if it’s obvious, treats everyone that realizes how ridiculous what she’s saying is like an idiot (and patronizes anyone that dares question her thought process), but never actually explains why she’s reaching such conclusions

“The band lost its chance when Sony executed its plan” What chance? What plan? How did they execute it? You didn’t talk about any of that or define any of those terms in any part of the long ass text I just posted, and I would know because I’m reading it bit by bit. You vaguely said that Louis fought for more creative control (debunked), that Harry was pushed as the frontman so in the future he could be the breakout star (debunked), that Louis got punished (debunked), but you never connected any of those dots, so I’m left here having to debunk a theory that you didn’t present. I can debunk the individual dots that you presented, but since you don’t actually connect them I’m left scratching my head as to what you really mean, and I find myself in this position of saying “do you mean that…”

With this part in particular, I’m left asking myself, do you think Harry decided to leave 1D because he wanted to be compared to Bowie by NME magazine? Like, how… what?

“His sound is relatively unique in the market right now, and they are spending lots of money building Harry’s career, connecting him to Fleetwood Mac and so on.“

Because Niall’s sound is so mainstream, right? Because there’s no money being put into his or Liam’s careers, right? What’s “and so on”? What are they spending all this money you’re claiming on Harry’s career on? Are they bribing Fleetwood Mac? Did they buy him a spot inducting Stevie in the Hall Of Fame? Or maybe they bribed the Recording Academy to have Harry perform with them at Musicares last year (too bad they couldn’t use that money for an actual Grammy, I guess). You don’t ellaborate further, so what’s this “and so on”? Of course there’s money invested in Harry’s career.. That’s generally how it works. Labels put money upfront so the artists can get them more money back in return. How is Harry such an anomaly? What does Fleetwood Mac have to do with it? Gah, I hate you so much

“I think it’s complicated. Azoff and Stringer are people who hold all the power. I’m not sure if Harry turned them down, the boys would be any better off.”

If Harrry turned what down? Having a solo career? Because that’s what he has with “Azoff and Stringer”. So no, of course “the boys” wouldn’t be “better off” if he had turned a solo career down. His career has nothing to do with Liam or Niall Louis’. Once again, I’m here having to guess if I have to debunk something you didn’t (have the guts to) say

I have a feeling that in this long ass text, what you leave between the lines is that Harry was told “we’re gonna make you the breakout star” and he said “sure”. And something something 1D is over something something Louis is punished something something. But that’s impossible to debunk because you don’t present it. You don’t even say it in as many words, let alone explain how you think Sony pushed Harry to be the breakout star or how it affected 1D. You kind of just vaguely hint at a few things

Just so we’re clear, I could absolutely destroy every single one of those arguments if you presented them, it’s just that I can’t do that if you don’t even spell them out. And you don’t spell them out because this way you get to live in a limbo between Larrie and Rad, when you’re, in reality, just fully rad. As long as you don’t spell out your bullshit arguments, you can pass off as being a “critical Larrie” (which isn’t actually any better than being a rad in the real world non-conspiracists live in, but it’s slightly more popular in conspiracy land, and gets you less hate from your peers). If you spelled out these bullshit theories, you’d get a lot of hate from the cult you’re still a part of, so you just vaguely hint at them. You’re able to garner support from the Rad group (just look at the people reblogging this specific post), while not being subject of attacks from the Larrie group. I’d call you smart if I didn’t have evidence to your incredible lack of intelligence all spelled out in this very text

“TPTB are going to do what they want anyway— and find their next Harry Styles, or Shawn Mendes. It’s difficult. Trying to understand it, even if it threatens prevailing head canons and a happy ending, is valid— not radical. Being curious about the truth is the least one could do to speak up for Louis”

This conclusion has nothing to do with any part of this text. It is very, very radical to believe that Louis is being sabotaged in order for Harry to have a bigger career. You’re not curious about the truth, you’re absolutely twisting it to fit your conspiracies. And I can GUARANTEE YOU that Louis wants you far, far away from him and his music

#seasurfacefullofclouds #larrie fails

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noramoya · 5 years

Text

• TrayC — I love to tour.

“HI, MJ FAM . I POSTED ABOUT THIS IN THE MJ MISCELLANEOUS THREAD BUT AFTER SPEAKING TO ANOTHER FONT IN DM, THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO CREATE A THREAD SO MORE PEOPLE CAN BE AWARE. I AM NOT ABLE TO POST THE TWEET IN WUESTION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE AGAINST LSA RULES.

BACKGROUND FOR THOSE WHO DON’T KNOW : Pearl Jr is a 'journalist' who states she has evidence that MJ faked his death. She has made 3 DVD's with her 'evidence' which she sells to naive fans. One of her main arguments is that she's spent thousands of hours on the phone to Michael himself, who she claims is Peter. Peter comes to this site to try to recruit people for his own forum. I don't think he has claimed he is MJ but he does creepy stuff like posting collections of rare memorabilia (which some people think is stolen), and mimicks MJs voice. (He sounds ridiculous but this has not stopped Pearl and thousands of lonely, vulnerable women into thinking that it's MJ). He has not disputed Pearls claims. He goes on live chats on his forum and many of these women seem to think they are in some kind of personal relationship with him. He has fairly large followings on twitter, facebook and his forum. Both of these people, in my opinion, are batshit. A few years ago, a group of fans exposed who he really was, a guy who has spends his life mimicking MJ. This is the first time I think he has been exposed in a live chat. What happened (what I posted in the other thread):

'PETER' WAS DOING A LIVE CHAT AND HE, ACCIDENTALLY, FLIPPED HIS PHONE AND SHOWED HIMSELF TO BE THE OVERWEIGHT IMPOSTER THAT HE IS. HE THEN TRIED TO DELETE THE EVIDENCE BUT ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS SNAPPED IT AND PUT IT ON TWITTER. IT’S STILL THERE BUT I WONT POST IT HERE . PEARL JR. OF COURSE IS NOW SAYING THAT IT’S MJ’S DISGUISE. LOL! SHE GOT TO GET HER INVESTMENT BACK SOMEHOW, I GUESS. The twitter user who posted this is someone who believed Pearl and her purchased DVDs apparently.” — April 29, 2018.

• Xscape —*The dark thoughts in your head*

“TrayC, Thank you so much for bringing this info out in the open. This has truly gone on way too long.

It is the intent of Peter Midani and his followers to throw Pearl Jr under the bus, claiming she is the only one responsible, but Make no mistake.. Peter Midani admitted on LSA to giving her permission to share their conversations so he knew very well what she was saying and promoting.

I know people who buy into this whole labor of love lie but hear me out. If Michael was discovered alive by the mainstream, what would happen.. Especially to the person he decided to reach out and go public to... That person is set for life... For bringing Michael back to the world. Seventy five thousand dollars is chump change compared to millions and millions of potential income if the risk panned out.

Pearl may be crazy but She ain't stupid. And Using the argument of being biased against Peter for sounding similar to Michael to certain people, again is not logical when 99.9% of impersonators and tribute artists have no qualms nor problem about their real identity known and, in fact prefers that, so no misunderstanding happens. Peter uses his Michael like voice to seduce young girls who are MJ fans into cyber or phone sex with him. Plus, because of what Pearl Jr has promoted him as, they think they are involved with Michael, in a secret life.

Please... It's fake ! Glad to see him busted, although I am sure another claim of being hacked and stolen identity will come up. And these people buy it because they're that desperate thinking they are close to Michael somehow, even when its not him . Crazy ! Also, He supports Shana ! Thanks again Tray C :) Thanks Thanks 🙏🏼 Hugs! Hugs! — April 29, 2018. “

• SellingOutSouls — 24KCoughDrop

“I wouldn’t really worry about it. The very few stans that give her the time of day are usually from foreign countries and struggle to understand English.” — 04/29/2018.

• TrayC — I love to tour .

“Yeah, you're probably right. I'm more concerned about the 12k people that follow Peter tbh. Many of them young girls ... “. — April 29, 2018.

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

“This is the Pearl Jr of “Wink wink.Nod nod... Michael Jackson is Alive” and Peter Midani is Michael Jackson on various platforms. I only point her out because, for a friend, Midani is a lousy one, willing to throw her under the bus for this when he gave his permission and has seen her videos. He knows what she sells ! In other words, They’re both in it, like peas in a pod ! — April 29, 2018.”

• Angels777 — Well-Known Member

Thank you @TrayC

This does deserve it's own thread for people who either aren't aware of the con-game Pearl Jr and Peter Midani have going on, or who support them and may need their eyes opened. It's so sad that some fans of MJ still continue to fall victim of shenanigans such as this. The best way to show them is to expose them.” — April 29, 2018.

• awsomegirl015 — Minding your business

“Why is it that people constantly think celebrities fake their deaths? Now Tupac is somewhat believable because there was never a real autopsy done. But I doubt Michael is still alive. The whole world saw his funeral”. — April 29, 2018 .

• TrayC — I love to your.

“Because some people find it hard to accept when their fav dies. Especially if they are still young or if under suspicious circumstances. To be clear, I don't care what people believe. I personally enjoy watching videos about conspiracy theories. I do have a problem with manipulation and scamming which I believe is the case here.” 04/29/2018.

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

ROTFLMAO... Let's not give Peter Midani any real followers, Man ! Actually, It is hard to understand ! These young girls and followers think they are protecting and being loyal to Michael Jackson here ! Now, we know this is nonsense... Especially now . But they are convinced, so they are loyal, thinking they are standing up for Michael Jackson , secretly ! This person almost caused the collapse of another MJ fan board with this act, and I know of two girls he flirted with, who absolutely thought this was Michael Jackson ! And this happened when Michael was still living ! Just know.. The two young women I knew were devastated when everything fell apart. They loved him as Michael and it was a betrayal when he turned out not to be, or they began to have doubts. Then, Michael was murdered. How would you feel being unable to confirm or deny you knew someone. Chatted with someone.. And they may be dead ? These people didn't have the truth and no place to go to find it ! The truth is coming out, but it cannot be placed all on Gaz. Now is the time to take a stand and spread this message or share your experiences if you are familiar with this situation. Secrets only keep the lie going, with people getting coin in their pockets off MJ fans ! Let's take back our fan base for each other ! Time for the crap to go ! “. — April 29, 2018 .

• Angels777 — Well-Known Member

ABOUT : Leogirl817 said:’ I don't know how this woman can function in her everyday life!’

“She's obsessed ! Her whole life revolves around this scam. Either she thinks Michael is in the car with Prince following her, or she thinks she talks to Michael on the phone all the time.She screams about talking to Michael (Peter Midani) for over ONE THOUSAND HOURS so she knows he's alive. If you challenge her, she gets smart with you and basically degrades you by calling you names and tells you if you don't believe her then get off her page. She insists that Peter is Michael and continues to do so, even after his real face was recently exposed yet again. Talk about crazy 😜! “ — April 29, 2018.

• SellingOutSouls — 24K CoughDrops

“Woah...WHAT HAPPENED TO GAZ?!! “. — 04/29/2018 .

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

“Gaz? He is fine, as far as I know. I don't know him well... I said as I did, because it was like there was a time he was fighting this alone... There just hasn't been much of a system in place for such victims to be able to find the truth and hopefully healing ! Instead, these people are often met with ridicule because they are hard to convince. Letting Peter Midani go, means letting Michael Jackson go, for them... So they stay silent and in the limbo .” — April 29, 2018 .

• SellingOutSouls — 24K CoughDrops.

“I find it incredibly hard to believe people would dismiss GAZ, regarding anything because, despite his falling out with some of his members on MJJC, he’s still held with high regard ! Last I had heard he had exposed Peter Midani as a fraud and the sane majority of the fan base believe GAZ. I honestly feel like regardless of Peter existing or not there’s ALWAYS going to be beLIEvers among us. No matter how hard we try or how many frauds we expose there will still be those who choose to believe in the false hope of Michael being alive. I mean you still have people that number in the thousands that believe Elvis is alive, even though the chances of somebody with the type of health issues Elvis had wouldn’t likely make it into their 80s are slim.” — 04/29/2018 .

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

“You're right Selling. Frauds exist. Scams get uncovered... I don't know how these people truthfully face themselves with the way they con people ! Gaz is fine . He still fights the good fight. My statement was about the fact Midani has been doing this, ever since before Michael Jackson died, and Burned a few bridges forcefully with nobody knowing the full truth of who he was ... So these girls were conflicted even more, when Michael was murdered.” — 04/29/20018 .

• BestOfJoy — Well-Known Member

“I think some people are missing the point here. It's not about people believing Michael is or is not alive. The issue here is that "Peter Midani” has been pretending to be Michael for years... going all the way back to MySpace days.He has lured young women (many who are under age) in to believing he is Michael and, in doing so , these young girls have shared very personal information with him- pictures, their address, phone number, etc. I'd like to direct everyone to MJJC's official statement made in 2014 about Peter: OFFICIAL STATEMENT OF MJJCOMMUNITY TO THE MICHAEL JACKSON FANS, RE : "Peter Midani" (Bobby Anderson) .” — April 29, 2018 .

• SellingOutSouls — 24K CoughDrops

“I understand. The problem is, our hands are tied because, these people have been given facts upon facts to prove he’s a fraud, and people still choose to believe in him. You can’t help those who refuse to be helped. I spent a good 5-6 years, after Michael died , trying to keep fellow fans from falling for the schemes and lies of frauds, but eventually realized that, if people refuse to consider the facts they are given to stop supporting these schemers, then they’re getting exactly what they’ve bargained for ! How many frauds have been exposed in the last 9 years alone and, yet, you still have naive MJ fans that refuse to use some common sense and research things, before giving people their trust and many times their hard earned money?Just look at how many dumb ass fans still follow Karen Faye despite the AEG trial exposing her for the “backstabbing c*nt” that she is ! Perhaps it’s because I’ve already reached my limits with age, but I just don’t have the time or energy to keep trying to pull these people’s heads out of the sand to force feed these people the truth, regarding the frauds among the fan community.” — April 29, 2018 .

• CHLOEXHALLE — Public Relations Agent & Lawyer.

“This shit is gonna be in history books about Michael. Mark my words. The "twin soul" shit too. I need to know why MJ fans (particularly women) are always so fucking stupid to believe shit like this ?! And it has nothing to do with age cause some of these people are over 25, and even as old as 40. Edit: Anyway I remember Pearl J from my early Twitter days. The bish was nuts then. I'm surprised she's still going over 6 years later !” — April 29, 2018.

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

“In my opinion, I think if one focuses on trying to push anything down another's throat, It will fail. Knowledge is power and can help those people who actually DO want the truth and need support. Like Pearl Jr , for example. Her response was the frame was a mask, but Come on.. It's clear that's no mask. Why would anybody wear a mask in their home on their own computer when they weren't expecting to be seen ? Top that with, he looks rough in this pic. He wasn't planning on it happening ! Karma is a bitch !! But still Pearl tries selling her hand with the mask excuse. Nuts! “ — 04/29/2018 .

• TrayC — I love to tour.

“See, I'm of the opinion that Pearl doesn't even believe herself that it's MJ anymore (maybe she did think it was him years ago)... but she can't back track now, she's gone too far ! It would be admitting that all her 'work' her book, DVDs etc are BS ! She couldn't possibly admit that , without some pretty harsh repercussions. So she will justify any evidence to the contrary. Until the end of time ... “ — 04/29/2018.

• SellingOutSouls — 24kCoughDrops

“At the end of the day, the victims of these schemes have to be the ones to report the fraud ; but even then, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything would come of it, because it would likely fall under a civil complaint and, at the end of the day, some just don’t feel like much will be accomplished, by attempting civil action .” — 04/29/2018.

• TrayC — I love to tour

“Well she claims her work is 100% factual ! That is false advertizing ! But yeah, I'm talking more about her reputation as an investigative journalist. But I guess that's not exactly that high either ! — April 29, 2018.

• SellingOutSouls — 24kCoughDrops

“That’s still something they’d refer for civil litigation and that type of stuff takes too much time and money. It ends up being easier to just cut your losses and never look back ! Now, maybe if enough people organized a class action suit, there’d be a glimmer of hope that she’d be shut down, but it would still rely too much on hearsay and certain unknowns.” — April 29, 2018 .

• BarbaraLee — Well-Known Member

“Interesting ! I remember the statement and the exposing on MJJC, in 2014, and wondered why Gaz cared so much about it... it seemed pretty absurd to me ! But I didn't know Peter had 12K followers and it had been going on for years and years ! Jeez !! — 04/29/2018 .

• NOT ALL MEN — Well-Known Member

“So I have a confession for y'all . For years, before Michael's death, I was part of the King of Pop message board. I, along with other MJ fans, downloaded this program called Paltalk (before Skype, or before the popularity of Skype). Myself and other MJ fans would all gather in the chat . And also, if you had a microphone or headset of some kind, you can actually speak in the chat instead of type. Well, guess who would also be in the chat? "Peter Pan PYT," or "Peter Midani." Often, he'd take the mic and impersonate Michael. And a lot of us enjoyed it. It sounded scarily like Michael ! However, this shit ended up being concerning because there were girls in this chatroom who ACTUALLY THOUGHT that he was the REAL Michael Jackson (this was during 2004/2005). I remember feeling creeped out by all of this. Obviously, it wouldn't really be Michael, but so many girls thought it was ! One of my friends from the KOP board who was also on Paltalk, she was on the phone with one of the girl's parents to tell them that that wasn't really Michael Jackson. Just someone impersonating his voice. She did this while she had the mic on Paltalk. I haven't heard this fraud's MJ's impersonation voice since then, but at the time, I thought he was really good. He sounded convincingly like Michael. Then years later, after I lost my moderation status on the KOP board over something petty, there was a huge thread, there, about "Peter Midani" because there were a few girls on the site who got conned. I don't remember the full story, so if there was anyone who was there on the kOP board at the time, if you can clarify, that would be nice. But, to my surprise, it was the same guy that we're talking about here. But these girls thought it was really Michael. He wrote them poetry, and all kinds of crazy claims ! The gullibility of these women amazes me ! How these women cling on to every dude's saying-and-action, without a thought ?! It's like all senses and thinking skills are thrown out the window, and they're ready to accept and believe, and do the most for him . But, more than that, is that not only has this guy been doing this BEFORE Michael passed, but years after, taking advantage of women and girls. Michael is supposed to be dead (he is), and here ‘Peter’is, the proof that Michael is alive, and taking advantage of these desperate BeLIEvers for his morbid and selfish reasons !And don't even get me started on Pearl Jr. She's an embarrassment to black women everywhere !” — April 29, 2018 .

• TrayC — I love to tour.

“When people wonder how on earth anyone could be so naive as to get sucked into lies like this, it's placing the blame on them, instead of the manipultors. The majority of people who fall into these traps aren't like you, with a normal life etc. Maybe they are children who are too trusting, they could have mental health issues, some people lean on things like this as a form of escape from whatever horrible shit is going on in their lives. This is what is so sad about it ! it's those type of people that Pearl and Peter are manipulating. I know there isn't really much we can do, but it just disgusts me. “ — 04/29/2018 .

• ShalaShalingay — Well Known Member

“ But could Gaz help ? I mean, shouldn't this ‘Peter’ man be investigated by police for soliciting young females online ? I'm sure that must be illegal ! I don't think with freedom of speech that much can be done about the Pearl Jr. woman. I can only imagine the conspiracy talk when it will be his 10 year next year. It will be a circus .” — 04/29/2018 .

• TrayC — I love to tour .

“I don't know Gaz so I dont know. I am not a member of his forum. From what I hear he already tried to do something but I really don't know. A member of MJJC would be better placed to speak on that than me...” — 04/29/2018

• Realtk92 — Unapologetically Real

“In the case of Michael, he was a larger-than-life-figure that ruled the Pop Culture world for over 40 years ! His impact, influence and contribution to Music and Culture was and is something that had not been seen before. He has become an Immortal figure and for many it is very hard to accept he is no longer here anymore. With Tupac, they haven't found the person that killed him and they continue to release new music from his vault. That is why there is speculation around his death. “ — 04/29/2018 .

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

“Let me take a crack and try my best to explain. Peter Midani used the same handle he always used as the email Addy to contact him by, that's how its known it's the same person as the imposter on KOPD board. Now of course, Peter cries Hacking, but that's his m.o. ..it's always an imposter, someone else when it isn't. Anyway, a moderator of that board befriended Midani through friends of hers and believed it was Michael Jackson as well. Later on, that moderator was approached by someone having doubts about the situation. This moderator kept the situation under wraps and bullied the person who came to them with their concerns to try and intimidate them into silence. The girl went over the mod's head. Hell broke loose at one point. It's like the one thing you just don't discuss there. People would rather forget. But I am, personally, of the opinion it's a network of people conning and conniving together. They think they got a good act going. Well busted ... EDIT : I want to be clear about the moderator here and note that the person apologized and lost the position over what happened, but went on to better themselves and change their bullying ways.” — 04/29/2018 .

• Awesomegirl015 — Minding Your Business

“According to the NYPD, they found Tupac’s killer years ago and have evidence but, because the guy was killed two years after Tupac, he was never convicted ! It was revealed in the tv series documentary about pac and biggie. The guy pac stomped out that night was the one who killed him. His uncle basically snitched years ago in order to save himself from having to go to jail. Let me see if I can post a clip... (it’s on Netflix). I agree with what you said about Michael , though ... He has become Immortal ! — 04/29/2018 .

• Xscape — *The dark thoughts in your head*

“Michael... It's like... somehow, people forgot he was a human being, regardless of his Talent, Wealth, and Life . He was ultimately destined to do what 100% of creatures of Earth have done and that was have a life span. They bring up he loved magic and illusion. Ok... So did Houdini, people ! It's us that yearned so much for him ! We wanted Redemption and Justice for him , because he deserved a happy life, after all he shared with the world. The world kicked him and spit him out. They’re STILL trying to rewrite his history and erase his true character from it. He deserved better than to be murdered ! To be abused and neglected right under our noses ! And, yet, Michael swallowed the blame as a drug addict, when he wasn't sleeping nights. He was very sleep deprived. But let's take the account of the murderer as gospel truth of Michael supposedly asking repeatedly for sedatives when evidence points to that version being a lie. Michael never woke up after the first sedative was given. That's what the evidence shows. Murray drowned him in drugs. He never had a chance ! It's just more injustice against Michael as ever and repeats in the media. People ignore Michael was murdered ! ‘Nope. Drug addict !’ When Court evidence and doctor’s records and testimony tell another story, the media muted. Typical media ! One day it WILL be set right though. Michael deserves at least that much in his honor ! Anyway, Hell ... You guys are reading this and can see how all of what happened to Michael hurts and angers me ! Well, some just can't come to grips with the idea that Michael was more vulnerable than was known, and was abused and betrayed, repeatedly, by those who should have had his back. A few of these clowns, MJ fans actually still think did right by Michael and loved him, because not everyone followed the AEG trial . This just wasn't supposed to happen like this for him. And Michael was their inspiration in life ! They have to find him again, because they can't feel like they can move on. Some live abused lives ... It’s tragic in some cases ! As a Michael Jackson fan since childhood, I am grateful to have grown up being inspired and spellbound by him. He was a friend, when I had no friend in my corner, giving me encouragement to believe in myself and my dreams. My heart aches for some other answer for Michael, too ... not enough to swallow a lying illusion though. There's been enough lies and crap in this fan base, people picking on us cause they think we’re an easy target ! We still have time to carry on Michael's legacy and pass it down to generations ! “. — April 29, 2018 .

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ber39james · 7 years

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8 Incredible Podcasts All Book Enthusiasts Will Love

Is life getting in the way of your book habit? The more hectic your schedule, the harder it is to find time to indulge in your favorite work of fiction.

Fortunately there’s a new invention called a “podcast” that may just satisfy your craving for juicy storytelling. As an audio-only experience, podcasts can be enjoyed at times when it’s simply not practical to read a book—like while driving a car during your morning commute, standing squished against strangers in a bumpy train car, or working at your computer.

If you’re ready to be whisked away to realms of imagination, learning, and exploration, here are eight incredible podcasts you’re sure to love.

1Myths and Legends

For those who love a good fantasy, Jason Weiser’s Myths and Legends delves into the rich and bizarre realm of world folklore.You’ll meet wizards and princesses, gods and dragons, and learn the fantastic (and often surprising) origin stories of your favorite fantasy characters before Disney got ahold of them. Weiser’s insightful storytelling and melodious voice will carry you off to magical lands and keep you coming back for more.

Couldn’t be more in love if I tried. @mythpodcast #mythpodcast #mythsandlegends #greatstor… https://t.co/mHY1ZL4wJ0 pic.twitter.com/udlsQTjw70

— Chenoa Loves Hair (@chenoaloveshair) March 22, 2016

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2The Black Tapes

As an investigative documentary series, The Black Tapes is a modern-day War of the Worlds—convincingly blurring the lines between real-life and fiction. The show follows journalist Alex Reagan and paranormal expert Dr. Richard Strand as they investigate Strand’s mysterious unsolved cases. In their search for truth the duo encounter strange disappearances, occultic geometry, and portals to hell. Fans of sci-fi, mystery, and public radio will revel in this gem of a show.

Serial meets X-Files: the #blacktapespod is the most imaginative podcast since CBC’s brilliant Wiretap. https://t.co/be7zE9yvW6

— Miles Weafer (@miles_weafer) May 14, 2017

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3LeVar Burton Reads

Need to get your short story fix? For countless years fans have been begging LeVar Burton to create a Reading Rainbow for adults, and the gods of fiction have finally smiled down on us with LeVar Burton Reads.

Burton selects his favorite short stories from various genres . . . which he then reads to you, whereby fulfilling one of your greatest childhood fantasies (or is that just me?).

The warm, soothing tones of his voice will melt away the stress and anxiety of daily life, and the thirty- to sixty-minute run time is perfect for your commute.

I started my week listening to @levarburton read me a story during my commute and I swear it has made all the difference.🤗#LevarBurtonReads

— lacie kopez (@KacieFriday) August 7, 2017

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4The Grift

Lovers of true crime, this one’s for you! Journalist Maria Konnikova takes us deep into the world of con artists and their victims. Each episode of The Grift focuses on the incredible life and crimes of an infamous con artist. From the greatest card sharp alive, to a master art forger, to the schemer behind a $450 million Ponzi scheme, you’ll get a peek inside the minds of these expert deceivers and leave with as many questions as answers. It’s a cocktail of deception, power, and charisma that goes down smooth.

#TheGrift pic.twitter.com/8NuCZ06Ap9

— Panoply (@Panoply) April 28, 2017

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5Modern Love

Based on the popular New York Times column, the Modern Love podcast dwells at the intersection of drama, romance, and the personal essay. The stories featured explore love and relationships, heartbreak and joy, with a vulnerability and intimacy that’s often heart wrenching.

Most episodes run twenty to twenty-five minutes and feature an essay lovingly read by an actor or personality (Kristin Chenoweth, Margaret Cho, and Judd Apatow, to name a few), plus an insightful follow-up with the essay’s author.

Swooning over this week’s #modernlove podcast about #bigtalk. Hint: It’s huge! https://t.co/gHSHneDA2M #intuition #matchmakers #datingtips

— Kelleher Intl (@kellehermatch) March 24, 2017

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6Fictional

Another must-listen series from the creative genius behind Myths and Legends, Fictional transports us into the world of classic literature—but with a twist. Weiser features books that are difficult reads but tells them in a modern, conversational voice that’s easy for modern ears to follow.

Whether you’re already a fan of Jane Austen, Shakespeare, and the adventures of Sherlock Holmes, or if you’ve had difficulty getting comfortable with these texts, this podcast brings new life to classic stories.

@fictionalpod thx for doing a Sherlock story so quickly! Loved it! Keep up the great work, already loving this podcast!

— Joel Mendez (@JoeDiddy99) August 23, 2017

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7Lore

If you’re a fan of horror, folklore, history (or just plain having your pants scared off) you’ll find a new favorite in Lore. This award-winning podcast tells the spine-tingling true life stories of the ghosts, monsters, curses, tragedies, and altogether unexplainable phenomena that have haunted human history. So grab a mug of cocoa and a blanket, and lean a little closer to the campfire—the show’s tagline, “Sometimes the truth is more frightening than fiction,” does not disappoint.

I’ll be honest, this @lorepodcast story truly creeped me out and I thought I was immune at this point. #podcast #mystery #lore #folklore https://t.co/5PQ4osQz6D

— Brook (@brook_podjunkie) August 22, 2017

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8Rabbits

Another compelling docudrama for those whole love a good mystery, Rabbits resides in the same world as The Black Tapes—full of shady characters, conspiracy theories, and the unexplained. Carly Parker takes us into the world of ARGs (Alternate Reality Games) as she searches for her best friend, Yumiko, who has disappeared while playing a dangerous game known only as “Rabbits”. But as Carly’s quest unfolds, the rabbit hole begins to go much deeper than expected.

This made weeding, baking and cleaning thrilling! Fascinating podcast! #rabbits https://t.co/4KuEvdtYSj

— Erin Conkin (@ErinConkin) August 1, 2017

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The post 8 Incredible Podcasts All Book Enthusiasts Will Love appeared first on Grammarly Blog.

from Grammarly Blog https://www.grammarly.com/blog/podcasts-for-book-lovers/

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aion-rsa · 7 years

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Watchmen: 15 Most Shocking Moments

Geoff Johns brought in 2017 with a bang after tweeting his intention to write a “Rebirth” follow-up utilizing characters from Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ “Watchmen.” Though this wasn’t a complete surprise, given the shocking finale of “DC: Rebirth” #1, which hinted Dr. Manhattan was somehow responsible for constructing the New 52, some fans feel another “Watchmen” revival is tactless, citing Moore’s ongoing battles with DC. Then again, when has Johns ever been afraid of controversy?

RELATED: The 15 Best Hidden Treasures in Watchmen

Love him or hate him, it’s fair to say Johns faces a formidable challenge taking on the “Watchmen” mantle. It’s cram-packed with shocks, thrills and complex characters that blur the lines between hero and villain. To celebrate all that’s great about “Watchmen,” CBR has compiled a list of the most shocking moments from the series. But be warned: if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you…

WHO’S YOUR DADDY

When Laurie Juspeczyk is transported to Mars by Dr. Manhattan to save her from impending nuclear war in “Watchmen” #9, she tries to convince her super-powered ex to return to Earth and save humankind instead. Against all odds, she manages this incredible feat, but only after reaching a shocking self-realization: her father is not the Hooded Justice as she always believed, but The Comedian, the despicable anti-hero who once attacked her mother (more on that later).

Understandably, this shocking revelation rocks Laurie to the core, as it did the comic book community upon release. The Comedian has few redeeming features and Laurie never saw him as anything other than a villain; however, once she’s forced to accept she would not exist without him, she realizes how much she has distorted her memories to suppress the truth of who she really is.

Though it’s highly controversial to make Laurie the product of such a dysfunctional relationship, Dr. Manhattan’s decision to help mankind becomes all the more poignant for it. It’s not only a pivotal moment in the narrative, but one of the most beautiful and moving sequences Moore and Gibbons ever put together.

THE COMEDIAN’S ASSAULT

Of all the shocking moments in this series, the flashback of Edward Blake’s violent assault of Sally Jupiter in “Watchmen” #2 is perhaps the most widely recognized. After trying to kiss Sally and receiving a “no thanks” in the form of a sharp right hook to the jaw, Blake persists trying to force himself on his teammate, striking her repeatedly as she tries to resist. Although Hooded Justice steps in at the last minute to save Sally, Blake makes it clear he feels no remorse. Ever the Comedian, he tries to turn the whole thing into a joke about Hooded Justice getting off on violence.

What makes this sequence so disturbing is not simply that a supposed hero could do something so vile — although that’s a big part of it — but the fact that Blake escapes punishment, as Sally decides not to press charges in case it damages the Minutemen’s credibility. It’s through moments like these that Moore and Gibbons really get under the skin of readers: between The Comedian’s moral bankruptcy and the Minutemen’s inability to exact justice, you can’t help but wonder… what’s the point of being a superhero if you can’t even stop your own team from becoming monsters?

THE MELTDOWN OF DR. MANHATTAN

When Jon Osterman appears on a live TV Q&A session in “Watchmen” #3, he doesn’t anticipate questions about whether being nuclear-powered isn’t such a good thing. When a reporter queries whether Dr. Manhattan caused people close to him (including his ex-girlfriend Janey Slater, his “buddy” Wally Weaver and the once-villainous Moloch) to develop cancer… well, let’s just say he reacts badly. And by badly, we mean he teleports all the people in the studio to a nearby parking lot in a hissy-fit before vanishing off to Mars to sulk.

This sequence is shocking for a number of reasons, not least because Manhattan’s extraordinary powers are supposed to be balanced by his cold and calculating intelligence. Through this emotional outburst, Moore and Gibbons remind the reader that Osterman is still human and therefore fallible, raising difficult questions about how much power man can safely possess — a politically significant point, given the origin of Manhattan’s abilities.

Oh, and did we mention his tantrum also heats up the Cold War? Just in case you missed that last political statement about the dangers of nuclear power, Moore and Gibbons really drive it home as Manhattan’s departure prompts the Russian invasion of Afghanistan… and all because someone asked an uncomfortable question.

THE BREAKDOWN OF THE COMEDIAN

“Watchmen” #2 reflects on various events during The Comedian’s life, but arguably one of the most unnerving is also one of few that gives Edward Blake some semblance of humanity. As he sits at the bedside of his former nemesis, Moloch, pouring out his heart and soul to a man who was once his enemy, he pleads for “somebody [to] please explain it.”

Of course, it’s really Blake who is explaining to the reader what is to come: his drunken monologue and theories about a conspiracy to incite the wrath of God (read: Dr. Manhattan) foreshadow nearly every element and theme of the greater plot of the “Watchmen” series, making it one of those scenes that demands to be revisited.

None of that makes feeling sorry for a scumbag like Blake any less uncomfortable… but that’s the beauty of it. By juxtaposing Blake’s emotional vulnerability with his many acts of brutality and violence, Moore and Gibbons give us an unflinching portrayal of an extremely complex character who is at once heroic, villainous and incapable of saving himself. If that’s not a shocking subversion of the superhero genre, we don’t know what is!

RORSCHACH OILS UP A PRISON INMATE

If Walter Kovacs’ time in prison taught us one thing, it’s that he isn’t great at making new friends. Pretty much everyone else Rorschach meets within the prison’s walls threatens to kill him — he was once a superhero, after all, and is directly responsible for putting some of them away! Luckily, Rorschach finds a rather unique way of warming up this frosty reception in “Watchmen” #6.

After fellow inmate Otis holds a shiv (a makeshift knife, to those not fluent in prison lingo) to his back, Kovacs retaliates by throwing a canister of boiling oil in his enemy’s face, leaving him with extensive third-degree burns. As he’s dragged off to solitary confinement, Rorschach screams a warning to anyone else thinking of trying to take him out: “I’m not locked up in here with you. You’re locked up in here with me!”

This sequence is a chilling reminder that while Rorschach may be one of the good guys, he’s not necessarily a good guy… meaning he’s not bound by the same moral code as the average superhero. He can fight just as dirty as his opponents and isn’t afraid to take out the trash.

DR. MANHATTAN TRADES UP FOR A YOUNGER MODEL

After Jon Osterman is transformed into Dr. Manhattan, he grows increasingly distanced from his humanity and plays the role of cold and detached demigod, keeping the world in balance from on high. So much so, in fact, that Sally Jupiter compares him to an H-Bomb, with one vital difference: the American government “didn’t have to get the H-bomb laid every once in a while.”

Yup, that’s right, ol’ Manhattan’s got a wandering eye… and as it turns out, his tastes aren’t all that different from your average red-blooded heterosexual male. Perhaps the most shocking demonstration of this is when Osterman decides to pursue Laurie Juspeczyk, despite her only being 16-years-old when they first meet in “Watchmen” #4 and him having a long-term partner at the time.

By pairing Manhattan with a girl that is barely of legal age in much of the West and making him a cheat, Moore and Gibbons manage to morally compromise their hero and make a cutting observation of modern sexuality in one fell swoop. This is one of those truths that cuts a little too close to the bone, but that’s part of what makes this series so special.

RORSCHACH’S REVENGE, PRISON-STYLE

You know you’ve got good friends when they’re willing to break you out of prison — but as noted earlier, Rorschach doesn’t really have much use for friends. After Nite Owl and Silk Spectre scale the walls of the prison intent on pulling off a daring escape in “Watchmen” #8, they find that the man they’ve come to save has already freed himself from his cell with a very different goal in mind… the killing of the villain, Big Figure.

What’s so scary about this sequence isn’t that a hero would be prepared to kill his nemesis (we’ve seen heroes kill before), but Rorschach’s nonchalant attitude towards the murder. Coolly informing his teammates that he needs to “visit the men’s room,” Rorschach follows Big Figure inside as if it’s the most normal thing in the world. When he emerges a few moments later accompanied by a trickle of blood on the floor, and is scolded by Laurie for “div[ing] headfirst into things,” he retorts that he’s sure many would agree with her… implying Big Figure just took a dive in the nearest toilet bowl. Again, Moore and Gibbons skilfully subvert readers’ expectations regarding how a hero should think, act and fight.

NITE OWL’S UNUSUAL APHRODISIAC

One of the most interesting — and controversial — questions that Moore and Gibbons pose in this series is why people with no superpowers to speak of would feel compelled to go out night after night, fighting crime, kitted out in lurid-colored spandex, face masks and utility belts. The answer offered in “Watchmen” #7 is a real eye-opener for anyone who assumes superheroes are doing it for the greater good.

After his bedroom antics with Laurie are a flop (and, yes, that pun is very much intended), a mortified Dan Drieberg flees to the one place that doesn’t make him feel inadequate — his Nite Owl workshop — and impulsively decides to get his mojo back by coming out of crime-fighting retirement. Saving a few civilians from a burning building finally seems to do the trick for Nite Owl, who manages to heat things up with Silk Spectre in his aircraft. Who knew being a superhero would be so sleazy.

All jokes aside, this sequence is a masterstroke by Moore and Gibbons, despite being supremely icky (or perhaps because of it): Nite Owl’s sexual impotence and self-loathing form a stark and shocking contrast against traditional depictions of Alpha Male heroes whose self-assured masculinity is routinely enforced.

RORSCHACH ROASTS A COP

As part of his investigation into who killed The Comedian and why, Rorschach reaches out to some rather unexpected sources and is quick to respond when he receives word that the former villain Moloch has information that might be helpful. However, it soon becomes clear in “Watchmen” #5 that Rorschach has walked directly into a trap: Moloch is dead and someone’s already called the cops.

To say Rorschach fights dirty in his attempt to escape this carefully calculated frame-up is an understatement. In one of the most shocking sequences ever seen in Moore and Gibbons’ series, he goes so far as to douse one officer in Veidt hairspray before setting him (along with most of the stairwell they’re in) alight. Fighting villains using underhanded tactics is one thing, but a cop?! That’s a whole other ball game.

This is another great example of how Moore and Gibbons have totally torn up the superhero rulebook, showing how vigilantes like Rorschach don’t only operate outside the law — they treat it (and, by extension, the people enforcing it) like the enemy. They don’t answer to anybody, and anyone unfortunate to get in their way is toast… or, rather, flambé!

THE BIRTH OF DR. MANHATTAN

There’s no doubt that Dr. Manhattan is an imposing and rather unsettling figure, given his baffling array of quantum-based powers and his godlike relationship with the rest of humankind. But it’s not until “Watchmen” #4 that the full, terrifying extent of his transformation is revealed.

In an origin story echoing that of other nuclear-themed characters such as Captain Atom, Firestorm and the Hulk, Jon Osterman finds himself trapped in an experimental device that quite literally strips him down to the bone… and waaaay beyond. In the jaw-dropping visuals that follow, readers are given a front-row seat to his dematerialization and gradual reassembly, ending with him fully-formed, bright blue, butt-naked and floating unsupported in the air.

It’s a frightening and bizarre sequence, not lessened by the ghostliness of his initial appearances around the army base, but perhaps what’s most shocking about Osterman’s transformation is how the immensity of his powers profoundly alters his psyche. Moore and Gibbons manage to demonstrate the mental and emotional dissonance wrought by the change as effectively as they depict his physical alterations, to the extent that Manhattan feels as detached from his human past as it’s possible to be.

RORSCHACH GOES TO THE DOGS

The story of how Kovacs became Rorschach is not easy to stomach, as his clinical psychologist Malcom Long learns the hard way — as have countless readers of Moore and Gibbons’ ground-breaking series over the years. In “Watchmen” #6, aptly titled “The Abyss Gazes Also” in a nod to Nietzsche’s infamous warning, Kovacs spills the beans about what set him on his current path… and it’s enough to drive any man mad.

It’s hard not to sympathize with Rorschach as he shares memories of his failed attempt to save a young girl from being butchered and fed to dogs, and when he coldly explains how he killed the dogs and chained the kidnapper up before burning his house to the ground, most readers cheer his rough justice. But the sort of man who stands outside a burning building making sure no one survives is not a hero: he’s a dark, uncompromising vigilante who believes the world has no meaning. He’s the sort of guy that, when you scream for him to save you, will say “NO.”

DR. MANHATTAN CHANGES HISTORY

Okay, so there’s been discussion in this list already about the extent of Dr. Manhattan’s powers, but we here at CBR wouldn’t be doing our jobs if we didn’t point out the most impressive (and kind of terrifying) feat that Manhattan accomplishes: he significantly changes the course of history.

The “Watchmen” series takes place in an alternate 1985, in which the U.S. has become the supreme and dominant power in the world after a number of decisive victories, including the Vietnam War. This is thanks to the awe-inspiring power of Dr. Manhattan, who many view as a supreme deity who cannot — and should not — be resisted. In “Watchmen” #4, readers get a glimpse of his domination firsthand as people literally fall over themselves to surrender to him personally.

Ever the political critics, Moore and Gibbons show readers that a world with Dr. Manhattan in it isn’t necessarily better or safer — the Vietnamese people’s unconditional surrender is directly compared to the fall of the Japanese after Hiroshima. If that’s not controversial enough, Nixon’s continuing stint in office is bound to ring alarm bells. The message is clear: peace is too fragile a thing to be sustained by a single man, superhuman or not.

THE COMEDIAN MURDERS HIS LOVER AND CHILD

It’s fair to say The Comedian likes war a little too much. He is, as Manhattan asserts after meeting him, “deliberately amoral” and seems to take divine pleasure in the killing of his enemies. But his bloodlust and adeptness for battle pales in comparison to the most despicable deed Blake ever commits in the “Watchmen” series: the murder of a young Vietnamese girl who claims to be carrying his child.

This shocking sequence occurs in “Watchmen” #2, after the pregnant woman confronts Blake in an emotional state, fearing that he plans to leave the country with the remainder of U.S. forces and leave her child without financial support or a strong father figure to look up to. She breaks a bottle and slashes his face, and in a moment of furious retaliation, The Comedian turns a gun on her and shoots her down… all while Dr. Manhattan looks on.

It’s a harrowing turn of events that completely stains The Comedian’s character, but it also serves to reinforce Moore and Gibbons’ political commentary on the real casualties of war. It’s not a moment the CBR team will forget in a hurry, that’s for damn sure.

DR. MANHATTAN MURDERS RORSCHACH

There aren’t many writers who could make readers not only sympathize with, but also actively root for, a character as deranged and anti-social as Rorschach, but it’s something Moore and Gibbons pull off without a hitch. And while that makes for an excellent comic series, it only makes the death of such a complex and beloved character all the harder to handle.

In the climactic scenes of “Watchmen” #12, after Rorschach comes to blows with Dr. Manhattan over what should be done to put an end to Ozymandias’ siege of terror on Manhattan (don’t worry, we’ll get to that in a moment), readers see Kovacs unmasked and reduced to tears, but still willing to die rather than compromise in the face of evil. His unflinching commitment to his own ideal and desperation in these final moments is enough to affect the hardest soul, but that’s not the only reason Rorschach’s death places so highly on this list. The most shocking thing about this whole sequence is that the justice he was willing to die for will probably never be enacted: Ozymandias’ unspeakable crimes against humanity will likely go unanswered for, as Dr. Manhattan decides to step aside and let the worst happen. In the end, his death doesn’t change a thing.

OZYMANDIAS WINS

As ever, CBR has saved the best — or more accurately, the most shocking — until last. In “Watchmen” #11, the Minutemen finally learn that Adrian Veidt, otherwise known as Ozymandias, is the one behind The Comedian’s murder and, worse still, a plan to unleash hell on the city of Manhattan in the form of a Cthulhu-esque, pseudo space-monster.

Just when you think Moore and Gibbons are about to confirm to the supervillain trope and have the criminal mastermind spell out exactly what it’s going to take to stop him, they drop the most shocking bombshell of the series: that Ozymandias began the attack 35 minutes ago, and that there’s nothing the Minutemen can do to prevent it. The resulting carnage, laid out in detail in “Watchmen” #12, is about as gratuitous as it gets.

As shocking as this sequence is, it’s arguable that Ozymandias’ staging of a horrific alien attack on Manhattan was the best-case scenario for a world teetering on the brink of nuclear war. That, perhaps, is the most controversial element of Moore and Gibbons’ series, when you get down to it. When tentacular genocide is the best you can hope for, you know you’ve got problems.

Are there any other moments from the original 1986 series you reckon deserve a place on this list? Let us know in the comments!

The post Watchmen: 15 Most Shocking Moments appeared first on CBR.com.

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